[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Docter Mario is just Mario in a Doctter Costume...Then Isn't Paper Mario just Mario made of paper?

EDIT: The pkemon making it in is still beign argued, but one thing is fairly sure, Umbreo probably will not make it in, though there is a moveset made in the Make your Move contest of a plausible Umbreo moveset.

 

[Pieman0920]

Docter Mario is just Mario in a Doctter Costume...Then Isn't Paper Mario just Mario made of paper?

I don't think anyone said anything to the contrary. They are both different versions of Mario, though one is a outfit, and the other is a body type.

And for Pokemon, most people say that the best bet is on a Generation 5 Pokemon, rather than on a older Pokemon. I don't think anyone really thinks Umbreon is likely though.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

If there is a Smash 4 Story Mode and Doc Mario gets in, we could make it so that he was made from a sample of the original Mario's DNA, couldn't we?

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I don't think stroy needs to be that supportive of probability...The game in itself is entirely paradoxcal.

Doc and Mario could coexist and make it sort of like a running joke or something

 

[Mowrt620]

PM, nuff said

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

My Eighth SSB4 PC Roster

Column 1: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario OR Dr. Mario

Column 2: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool, Yoshi, Wario, and Ashley OR Kat & Ana

Column 3: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Tingle, and Vaati OR a sixth Zelda character

Column 4: Samus/ZSS, Ridley, Little Mac, Glass Joe OR Mr. Sandman, ICs, and Pit

Column 5: Kirby, Meta, Dedede, Olimar, Starfy, and Animal Crosser OR Tom Nook

Column 6: Fox, Falco, Wolf, Krystal, C. Falcon, and Samurai Goroh

Column 7: Pikachu, PT Red with Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard, Jiggs, Lucario, and 2 OF THESE 3: Mewtwo, Meowth, 5th Gen Pokemon

Column 8: Ness, Lucas, Marth, Ike, and 2 OF THESE 3: Micaiah, Lyn, New FE Lord

Column 9: R.O.B., Mach Rider, Lip, Sukapon, Isaac OR GS3 Protagonist, and Saki OR Isa

Column 10: Mr. GW, Megaman, Rayman, Goemon, Marco Rossi, and Random Character Selector

Hidden characters in red.

Feel free to make comments!

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Man, you guys are making this way harder than it needs to be. The only arguments I'm seeing are:

"Paper Mario is cooler than Dr. Mario."
"Dr. Mario is cooler than Paper Mario."

No one has provided any evidence that one is clearly far more popular than the other. The only advantage I've seen from either is that Doc works easily as an alt costume/model/whatever.


Also:

Ashley OR Kat & Ana

This is the kind of stuff that says "I have no idea what I'm doing."

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Hey Toise, can you please tell me who you think I should have put in my roster instead of Ashley or Kat & Ana?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I could tell you who, but you wouldn't know why, would you?

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

I could tell you who, but you wouldn't know why, would you?

It depends:

If C. Syrup: because she's the only female Nintendo video game vilain to appear in more than one Nintendo game

If Mona: because she has a more important role than Ashley and the ninja girls, and that Mona is Wario's girlfriend

Would I be right?

 

[drag0nscythe]

This is the kind of stuff that says "I have no idea what I'm doing."

Not true. Many people wanted Ashley playable for brawl. It came from her theme song update.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

It depends:

If C. Syrup: because she's the only female Nintendo video game vilain to appear in more than one Nintendo game

If Mona: because she has a more important role than Ashley and the ninja girls, and that Mona is Wario's girlfriend

Would I be right?

Correct characters, but you're forgetting the most important part: they're the most popular. Prominence is a means to that. Gender is irrelevant.

Not true. Many people wanted Ashley playable for brawl. It came from her theme song update.

SmashBoards wanted Ashley because SmashBoards is shortsighted and mind-numbingly ********.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Hey Toise, don't forget that you are a member of Smash Boards, too.

 

[BBQTV]

wait can someone show me what mona looks like i think it would be cool for ashely kat ann doc and pm but can this be done what could their move sets be?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Hey Toise, don't forget that you are a member of Smash Boards, too.

Oh you.

Captain Syrup on the left, Mona on the right.

 

[BBQTV]

Oh you.

Captain Syrup on the left, Mona on the right.

ah thats them i see well i dont know what their move set could possibly be but big fat wario has a girl friend? whoa

 

[Old Amber]

The pkemon making it in is still beign argued, but one thing is fairly sure, Umbreo probably will not make it in, though there is a moveset made in the Make your Move contest of a plausible Umbreo moveset.

Make your Move? Is that one of those Brawl+ gimmicks?

Also, I heard someone say 5th gen. I really don't know if there will be a 5th gen. . .

 

[Pieman0920]

The problem with Syrup is that she really doesn't have a moveset to really go by. If I recall correctly, she used a genie in WL1, a giant hovering ship thing in WL2, and didn't have any combat role at all in the new Wii game. Mona also doesn't really have much combat experience either, but she has got animal helpers/the possibility to use Microgame inspired moves. Thus for two people who have never really gotten into fights, one has more to work with (wait a minnute...this seems like a debate I just had...)

Also if you boil this down to WL vs WW, WW seems to have more popularity as of late, given sales (Look at WLSI's sales compared to WWSM) as well as who people actually know. (More people seem to know the WW characters as opposed to the WL ones...though that could just be because WL was completely excluded from Brawl, just about.)

That being said, Wario Land should still get at least a stage. Heck, even if Wario doesn't actually get a new character next time, it should have at least two stages, one for WL and one for WW.

Also, I heard someone say 5th gen. I really don't know if there will be a 5th gen. . .

...

You really don't think Nintendo likes money?

 

[BBQTV]

i did play wl but not ww but sales got nothing to do with it if sruyp is in they could BS her move set while mona has something at least

 

[Finman702]

I was disappointed Wario made it in, if another Wario caharcter made it... I don't know what I would do...

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

post above me

Moveset is irrelevant because anyone can make one for any character. If Mona could have a microgame/employee theme, why couldn't Captain Syrup have some sort of pirate/ancient treasure/expensive doohickey theme?

As far as popularity, I don't remember people getting excited over Mona appearing in the latest WarioWare game, but when Captain Syrup was announced for Shake It!, people went nuts. And I don't really wanna compare sales since:
A) WL has outsold WW in lifetime sales
B) Smooth Moves was a launch title and Shake It! is no slouch for being a year old
C) The last two WW games bombed (but these were WiiWare and DSiWare with UGC, so meh)
D) Sakurai is blind to sales

So basically, it's a little hard to measure exact popularity between the two. Brawl would indicate that Mona has the clear advantage because he doesn't seem to care about Wario Land, but then again, he might change his mind because of Shake It (or any new games that come out between now and then). And I agree with the two stages thing.

 

[n88]

ah thats them i see well i dont know what their move set could possibly be but big fat wario has a girl friend? whoa

I've taken that as a sign of hope, seeing as I'm infinitely better looking and marginally less obnoxious.

@Old Amber
MYM is not 'one of those Brawl+ gimmicks'

Since when has not having much to use for a moveset been a problem?

Anyway, what do people think about Dixie getting added to Diddy as a follower/B-Down switch as was orginally intended? I like the idea, but I'm afraid it might not happen due to Saakurai liking to keep characters mostly the same from game to game.

 

[Big-Cat]

The problem with Syrup is that she really doesn't have a moveset to really go by. If I recall correctly, she used a genie in WL1, a giant hovering ship thing in WL2, and didn't have any combat role at all in the new Wii game. Mona also doesn't really have much combat experience either, but she has got animal helpers/the possibility to use Microgame inspired moves. Thus for two people who have never really gotten into fights, one has more to work with (wait a minnute...this seems like a debate I just had...)

Capt. Falcon, Zelda, Fox, Mr. Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, Pit, and R.O.B. didn't have much to go off of in the first place so I doubt that it would be as difficult to come up with something for Syrup and Mona.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Column 1: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario OR Dr. Mario

Column 2: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool, Yoshi, Wario, and Ashley OR Kat & Ana

Column 3: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Tingle, and Vaati OR a sixth Zelda character

Column 4: Samus/ZSS, Ridley, Little Mac, Glass Joe OR Mr. Sandman, ICs, and Pit

Column 5: Kirby, Meta, Dedede, Olimar, Starfy, and Animal Crosser OR Tom Nook

Column 6: Fox, Falco, Wolf, Krystal, C. Falcon, and Samurai Goroh

Column 7: Pikachu, PT Red with Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard, Jiggs, Lucario, and 2 OF THESE 3: Mewtwo, Meowth, 5th Gen Pokemon

Column 8: Ness, Lucas, Marth, Ike, and 2 OF THESE 3: Micaiah, Lyn, New FE Lord

Column 9: Mr. GW, R.O.B., Lip, Sukapon, Isaac OR GS3 Protagonist, and Saki OR Isa

Hidden characters in red.

Feel free to make comments!

Ummmm, I like that you have PM and that you have left room for choice w/ all the ORs.

I don't like: Lil Mac, Starfy, AC, Tingle....., Sukapon (two robos...),

Maybe pushing it but, 7 Zelda and Mario characters....the way this could work would be the last 3 LOZ would be categorized under MAYBE something other that LOZ like Toon LOZ w/ Four Sword and the Wind Waker in one symbol for their symbol.

For Mario PM could have his own category like his hammer for the symbol........................or Doc could have a pill or a block or something since I'm pretty sure when he was going to be in Brawl he would probably have be under Puzzle League (getting from Snakey's ideas for Doc).

orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr they could all stay under their respective series making Mario and Zelda have the most reps a should be. (Either way Mario would have most counting PM and Yoshi and other spin-offs

and maybe another Mother rep....maybe

 

[n88]

@ PM Master

I think you're going to have to get over your dislike for Little Mac. He's possibly the single character that's most likely to get into SSB4. Mario would have 6 characters w/Jumpman's roster, not 7.

Mother is very obscure. Sakurai has said that he doesn't want to put a focus on Japan-only characters (Which most Mother characters are) and Mother has a lot of content already for such a small series. I don't think a new Mother character is completely out of the question, but I certainly wouldn't put any money on it.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

@ PM Master

I think you're going to have to get over your dislike for Little Mac. He's possibly the single character that's most likely to get into SSB4. Mario would have 6 characters w/Jumpman's roster, not 7.

Mother is very obscure. Sakurai has said that he doesn't want to put a focus on Japan-only characters (Which most Mother characters are) and Mother has a lot of content already for such a small series. I don't think a new Mother character is completely out of the question, but I certainly wouldn't put any money on it.

No I was saying that they maybe should have 7 characters what do you think about how they would and if they should?

 

[Starphoenix]

Man you two (Smashchu, Pieman) know how to beat dead horses don't you? So naturally I'll take a few whacks at it!

Paper Mario definitely has a unique personality versus "normal" Mario. He is presented as being a little fiery and saucy, more of an attitude if you well, as well as being thoughtless at times. The assumption that Paper Mario is simply "flat Mario" without any type of individuality is wrong. Do not try saying Dr. Mario had anymore personality than Paper Mario could have, because he didn't. From what I have seen an amount of casual players (basically those soccer mom's who picked up Super Paper Mario for the family) draw a difference between Paper Mario and canon Mario. To be honest though their opinion is really useless since half the time they do not even think that in depth regarding a game as most of us here do. This is also based upon limited observations so take it for what you will.

On the pro-Paper Mario side of things they have not really established any good reasons on why he should be playable other than he would have a cool moveset. Both arguments truly just fall into individuals personal preferences, but that is the nature of speculating a roster for a game that is not even in development (that we know of) right now.

Before anything else though they better give me Megaman! By the way, did you all hear that Capcom's Seth Killian stated Melee and Brawl are real fighting games? Check it out.

http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=94817

Mother is very obscure. Sakurai has said that he doesn't want to put a focus on Japan-only characters (Which most Mother characters are) and Mother has a lot of content already for such a small series. I don't think a new Mother character is completely out of the question, but I certainly wouldn't put any money on it.

It does not have any Earthbound music!

 

[n88]

No I was saying that they maybe should have 7 characters what do you think about how they would and if they should?

Ah.
No I think 6 characters is about right for each of the 'Big Three'. (I'm aware that LoZ isn't on par w/Pokemon and Mario, but it should be. Robin Williams didn't name his daughter Pikachu, he named her Zelda. Because LoZ owns.)

For Mario, I would like to see Bowser Jr. and Rosalina, but I imagine Dr. mario will get in.

LoZ - Tingle, Tetra/Toon Zelda

Pokemon - Mewtwo, New Gen-Rep

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Ah.
No I think 6 characters is about right for each of the 'Big Three'. (I'm aware that LoZ isn't on par w/Pokemon and Mario, but it should be. Robin Williams didn't name his daughter Pikachu, he named her Zelda. Because LoZ owns.)

For Mario, I would like to see Bowser Jr. and Rosalina, but I imagine Dr. mario will get in.

LoZ - Tingle, Tetra/Toon Zelda

Pokemon - Mewtwo, New Gen-Rep

For me it would be:

Mario: all 4 plus BJ and PM or Toad, if a 7, all three ( don't start a Toad argument I've heard some good ideas posted on different sites here and there and he's pretty important-ish besides the others.)

LOZ: All 4 plus Toon Gannon Vaati and/or Skull Kid (once again don't start an overkilled argument please)

PKMN: Pika Jiggs PT Rival (2nd or 3rd gen) Mewtwo and/or Lucario Gardevoir (if Rival is 2nd gen) HG/SS or 5th gen (Don't start the "We don't need to rep every gen" argument, I just didn't want to have 2 2nd gen or 2 3rd gen.)

6 or 7 for LOZ and Mario and 6 for PKMN.......yup....

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I feel that LoZ doesn't really need any new characters because it's main characters are already in the game, but i guess that politics thing Toise spoke of would say LoZ needs another Character, so tingle could be fun, i guess.

Anyway...Noone has spoken about the Retro category yet (Outside Lil Mac), So does anyone wanna see Baloon Fighter appear (As I recall he were planned for melee)?

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I feel that LoZ doesn't really need any new characters because it's main characters are already in the game, but i guess that politics thing Toise spoke of would say LoZ needs another Character, so tingle could be fun, i guess.

Anyway...Noone has spoken about the Retro category yet (Outside Lil Mac), So does anyone wanna see Mach Rider or Baloon Fighter appear (As I recall they were planned for melee)?

Meh, My vote would go to Lip....Idk much about MR but Balloon Fighter would be kinda awkward, maybe...

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I rethought it an dMach Rider would be crazy awkward, but Balloon Fighter would be no less awkwad than Jigglypuff

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I rethought it an dMach Rider would be crazy awkward, but Balloon Fighter would be no less awkwad than Jigglypuff

Yeahs no MR buit maybe BF

Hey I don't think I've seen much on ATs or Pokeballs anybody wanna talk about those helpful little items?

 

[Pieman0920]

Moveset is irrelevant because anyone can make one for any character. If Mona could have a microgame/employee theme, why couldn't Captain Syrup have some sort of pirate/ancient treasure/expensive doohickey theme?

Because it doesn't come quite as naturally. I'm not saying its impossible of course, I just find that Mona's makes more sense, with everything shown.

As far as popularity, I don't remember people getting excited over Mona appearing in the latest WarioWare game, but when Captain Syrup was announced for Shake It!, people went nuts. And I don't really wanna compare sales since:
A) WL has outsold WW in lifetime sales
B) Smooth Moves was a launch title and Shake It! is no slouch for being a year old
C) The last two WW games bombed (but these were WiiWare and DSiWare with UGC, so meh)
D) Sakurai is blind to sales

So basically, it's a little hard to measure exact popularity between the two. Brawl would indicate that Mona has the clear advantage because he doesn't seem to care about Wario Land, but then again, he might change his mind because of Shake It (or any new games that come out between now and then). And I agree with the two stages thing.

People geeked out over the koopa kids showing up in NSMBWii too, but that doesn't mean they should get in over Bowser Jr, now does it? I don't think that people's reaction to Syrup showing up again after all these years can really be compared to Mona showing up like clockwork in the WW games. Of course people won't get excited that Mona is showing up in the new WW game, just like people won't get excited if Peach shows up in Mario Kart.

And yes I do know that the WL games overall have outsold the WW games, and that's why it should at the very least get a refference in the form of a stage. Still I would think that if Shake It really was as popular as WWSM, then it'd be closer in terms of sales by now, since its had a year. (Also, how well do WiiWare games ususally do anyways?)

EDIT: Oh, and on the debate about the amount of characters, while I see no problem with Pokemon and Mario getting six, at this point in time, I don't think Zelda needs more than five (Tingle being number 5) This may change in the future with the progress of the series, but as of now, I don't see more than that happening, since Toon Zelda just seems like a bad idea, and most other Zelda characters are resigned to one game.

 

[BBQTV]

I feel that LoZ doesn't really need any new characters because it's main characters are already in the game, but i guess that politics thing Toise spoke of would say LoZ needs another Character, so tingle could be fun, i guess.

Anyway...Noone has spoken about the Retro category yet (Outside Lil Mac), So does anyone wanna see Baloon Fighter appear (As I recall he were planned for melee)?

retro um that wasn't really my time i was the N64 and higher so IDK balloon fighter or most anyone else

 

[Paper Mario Master]

EDIT: Oh, and on the debate about the amount of characters, while I see no problem with Pokemon and Mario getting six, at this point in time, I don't think Zelda needs more than five (Tingle being number 5) This may change in the future with the progress of the series, but as of now, I don't see more than that happening, since Toon Zelda just seems like a bad idea, and most other Zelda characters are resigned to one game.

Tingle, really I mean out of EVERY Zelda character ever that ANYONE could choose from, most pick Tingle . Really? Not Vaati? Not any Toon? Not Midna? Not even Skull Kid? Tingle wow.....

(Yes I know, "Shut up, go play Tingle's Rupee Land, Tingle could work"....... )

 

[BBQTV]

well i do agree that toon zelda may be pointless the only reason toon link is here is because to be an update for child link

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Because it doesn't come quite as naturally. I'm not saying its impossible of course, I just find that Mona's makes more sense, with everything shown.

Considering the nature of Wario games in general and the fact that you'd be making up a moveset for both of them, I don't think making sense is an issue.

People geeked out over the koopa kids showing up in NSMBWii too, but that doesn't mean they should get in over Bowser Jr, now does it? I don't think that people's reaction to Syrup showing up again after all these years can really be compared to Mona showing up like clockwork in the WW games. Of course people won't get excited that Mona is showing up in the new WW game, just like people won't get excited if Peach shows up in Mario Kart.

Out of fairness, 7 Koopalings vs. 1 Bowser Jr. is a little different. Especially when a good chunk of Mario fans outright hate him. And yeah, everyone expects Mona, but you can't ignore the response to seeing someone you've missed whom you thought dropped off the face of the earth.

And yes I do know that the WL games overall have outsold the WW games, and that's why it should at the very least get a refference in the form of a stage. Still I would think that if Shake It really was as popular as WWSM, then it'd be closer in terms of sales by now, since its had a year. (Also, how well do WiiWare games ususally do anyways?)

Well that was why I mentioned Smooth Moves's launch title status, since I'm sure Shake It would be at 2 million if it came so early. It's still selling too (11k last week in America), hence the "only a year" thing . But as I said, sales aren't important because Sakurai doesn't look at them.

EDIT: Oh, and on the debate about the amount of characters, while I see no problem with Pokemon and Mario getting six, at this point in time, I don't think Zelda needs more than five (Tingle being number 5) This may change in the future with the progress of the series, but as of now, I don't see more than that happening, since Toon Zelda just seems like a bad idea, and most other Zelda characters are resigned to one game.

I wanna get more into the whole "reps" vs. characters thing, but I'd rather devote an entire post to that (again) rather than cram it into a Wario-centric post. Actually, I REALLY wanna address this since people are getting it completely wrong while still referring to me directly.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Tingle, really I mean out of EVERY Zelda character ever that ANYONE could choose from, most pick Tingle . Really? Not Vaati? Not any Toon? Not Midna? Not even Skull Kid? Tingle wow.....

(Yes I know, "Shut up, go play Tingle's Rupee Land, Tingle could work"....... )

Skull Kid would be freakin awesome, but he'll never make it. Vaati wasn't in much (wasn't it only Link to the Past) Midna is lame and one game, again. The toons have a shot too but Tingle is crazy popular in Japan.

 

[Pieman0920]

Technically, Toon Link had been in more games than TP Link though. He was the better Link to pick. Even if you combined TP Link's roles with OoT Link's, Toon Link would still have more games. Really, for some reason, people are under the misconception that Link primarily an adult, when in reality, he's a kid most of the time.