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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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Rizen

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:priority doesn't matter that much in 4vs as 4 people are playing, not two. Besides, why should Link nair the attack to approach her when he can just perfect guard.
He will hit through Din's Fire.

I essentially think there wouldn't be a problem with anyone, because both sides are getting considered in that formula. I also agree with MES! about his design route. If the game was centered towards competitive depth and character balance, along with crazy items and stages thrown into the mix, I think many fans of both sides would be happy.
The idea is not to hurt the party aspects, it will improve casual and competitive play.

I don't know about Bongo Bongo because 1. He would be very similar to Master/Crazy Hands and Andross 2. He's only shown once in Zelda series and
So has Sheik. Yeah, I see your other points.

Just chiming in here, but technically if the game was deisgned to be focused on a competative level (aka 1v1 with no items), yet still added in several new items, crazy stages, and other things that the more casual crowd would be happy with, would there technically be a problem with anyone?
 

ToiseOfChoice

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I suppose there is something that you're keeping to yourself is flying over my head, but be a gent and say what it is instead of being coy. Heck, your sentance was simply on the amount of Mario stages, which isn't the problem at all. Two theater stage style...uh stages is sort of pushing it, and them both being in the same series is just silly.
It's either be coy and hope you rethink what you're saying or embarrass you (although I assume no one bothers to read the posts between you and me so meh).

SMB3 does not have a stage performance motif. A motif has to be a recurring theme throughout the whole thing, and aside from curtains being drawn at the title screen and ending, there's nothing that even suggests it's theatrical.

You know what would give it a stage performance motif? Theater elements popping up repeatedly in the game itself. But there's no audience, no orchestra, no bumbling stagehands, no ceiling lights, no singing, and nobody gets flowers and bows at the end. So no motif.

For the record, your logic would suggest SMB2 and Zelda II were theatrical too. You'd have a much easier time trying to say that Kirby's Adventure had a storybook motif or Castlevania had a film motif, and even those wouldn't affect how you'd make a Smash Bros. stage. Compare to stuff like Yoshi's Story, Comix Zone, or Viewtiful Joe and you'd see why it's ridiculous to think that way.



@Roster Guy: Don't worry about whether certain characters are unlockable or not. Surprises are momentary, but the characters themselves will be in the game forever. Go ahead and post the other half.
 

Dragshot

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I just hope they do a bets so that we can play...I mean balance the game early...yeah...that's it.
 

BG3

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I just hope they do a bets so that we can play...I mean balance the game early...yeah...that's it.
If only that did happen. Unfortunately, Nintendo doesn't care about balance as much as Blizzard does.
 

Pieman0920

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@toise: The ends of the stage being the end of the set, and the tacked on background items still seem like a theater style if you ask me, and they are both things that show up in my own mental model of a Kingdom III. Thus is close enough to a theater model in my eyes, and again in my own opinion, should outrank a Paper Mario stage having simmilar themes. Now that doesn't mean that the Paper Mario series couldn't be done, or that a Kingdom III level couldn't be done without the stageshow elements, but its just my personal opinion on how it should work out. Heck, I've always described my ideal Mario stage roster with those parts in it for Kingdom III, as well as kept in a Paper Mario stage. (Though the PM stage was tentativley based on Flipside/Flopside)

@MES: Were you going to comment on that quote or not?
 

Warlock*G

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I don't care about new characters. At all. What we got in Brawl now is plenty.

:psycho: :psycho: :psycho:

However, like so many people, I'd like to see an improved online Smash. This is why I find myself hoping that either Microsoft or Sony ends up buying Ninty (yeah good luck with that), as that would improve the online playability of SSB4 quite a bit.
 

augustoflores

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@Toise
"Go ahead and post the other half."
wow, thats nice. (i dont believe we've had a back and forth. (from the side lines you sound like a hardass (no offense)))
melee new initial: zelda/shiek, peach, bowser, ice climbers
count: 4~slot/5~shiek
brawl new initial: Pit, Meta Knight, Zero Suit Samus, Pokemon Trainer+3, Ike, King Dedede, Wario, C. Olimar, Lucas, Diddy Kong
count: 10~slot/13~playable+P. Trainer/12~playable

wow new character initial sky rocketed. i assume it will stay the same with 10 slot new initial, maybe 7.

@cherry pie
"@MES: Were you going to comment on that quote or not?"
oh my, that was what i was thinking. i think he wanted to but ran out of time for a certain something, reason. many events occur without knowledge of happenings (our knowledge not his/hers(sorry don't know your gender)) like battery life and "SEND BEFORE SOMEONE SEES!! Im NOT SUPPOSED TO BE USING mY BIG SISTER'S SIDEKICK ohhgod her footsteps... i hear them"

(yes i love comedy, sue me)

--
here's something to chew on, I'm sure all will agree:
why don't they make settings savable i mean sure your random stages are saved and your items selection are saved but why do have to continually go to settings and change the type to stock instead of timed brawl (in my case melee cause i don't own brawl i play it elsewhere) i almost never play timed matches. STOCK LIVES!
 

Rizen

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Originally Posted by Pieman0920
Just chiming in here, but technically if the game was deisgned to be focused on a competative level (aka 1v1 with no items), yet still added in several new items, crazy stages, and other things that the more casual crowd would be happy with, would there technically be a problem with anyone?




I quoted that to reinforce what I and other people said: The design around competitive play will also support party modes.


here's something to chew on, I'm sure all will agree:
why don't they make settings savable i mean sure your random stages are saved and your items selection are saved but why do have to continually go to settings and change the type to stock instead of timed brawl (in my case melee cause i don't own brawl i play it elsewhere) i almost never play timed matches. STOCK LIVES!
Agree.
 

Pieman0920

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Hmm, looking at MM10, I wonder if the Wily Archives would work well for a Wily's Castle stage. You could have three in the stage at any given time, and about 10 RMs that could fill them out, which are randomly chosen at the start of the match. As the match goes on though, one of the three will come out at times and preform the RM's attack for a bit before going back into the background. (Probably easier to understand if you've seen a video of the Wily Archive or played through the level yourself)
 

Gallowglass

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Originally Posted by Pieman0920
Just chiming in here, but technically if the game was deisgned to be focused on a competative level (aka 1v1 with no items), yet still added in several new items, crazy stages, and other things that the more casual crowd would be happy with, would there technically be a problem with anyone?




I quoted that to reinforce what I and other people said: The design around competitive play will also support party modes.
I agree with this as well. Smash Bros should be first and for most a non-traditional fighting game and not a party game. The other games, events, and adventure should come secondary.
 

DekuBoy

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Exactly. They need to build a balanced engine and make the characters first and then add in the rest. If the next Smash had at least 4 years of production they could split up time for each thing easily I think.
 

Thirdkoopa

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Chu and Toise are up for some SE talk? K then, I'll give a short summary with a fancy pic


banner/sig made by me if you're going to use it then ask me first or notify me.

Anyways just to give a general rundown of main things Square-Enix has contributed to Ninty as a company: (I probably forgot some things in this)
-Dragon Quest 1-7, 9, and 10
-Final Fantasy 1-6 - Did I mention remakes? ;D
-Secret of Mana
-Chrono Trigger
-The World ends with You
-Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles/Newer tactics games
-Kingdom Hearts Spin-offs
-TWO spin-offs with Mario. One being Mario Hoops 3 on 3 and the other being some game that was never released outside of japan.

So in short, Square-Enix has contributed...A lot. As much as Sega, Konami, or Capcom? Debateable, but why do they have to be compared anyways? The point is that they wouldn't be a lesser company by any means.

Of course with Square-Enix there's a general character debate which leads to a lot of Fanboyism, Random arguements, Running in circles, etc. So If we're to discuss this we should at least keep it to a not so complicated point.

Now then the main canidate agreed on by this thread is often a Final Fantasy generic creature - Main suggestion in that is Chocobo (On a rider, preferably Slime)

The only true problem to that suggestion is that while they can be given a very good moveset they would have is that chocobo and slime have never actually been together in any game before so for this character to be in it'd need something to get it noticed.

discuss.
 

Pieman0920

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I agree with this as well. Smash Bros should be first and for most a non-traditional fighting game and not a party game. The other games, events, and adventure should come secondary.
No no no. Its gameplay can be designed with balance in 1 vs 1 no items matches, but there should be at no point be a lack of focus on things such as new items, stages, and modes. It can easily be both, since most of those other modes don't directly inpact the competative scene.
 

Big-Cat

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No no no. Its gameplay can be designed with balance in 1 vs 1 no items matches, but there should be at no point be a lack of focus on things such as new items, stages, and modes. It can easily be both, since most of those other modes don't directly inpact the competative scene.
I believe both of you are saying the same thing. Gameplay and balance should be top priority in SSB4. The other features are not afterthoughts and let you do more things with the gameplay.

Think of it this way. I want to have as many people as possible working on the gameplay, characters, balance, stages etc. In the mean time, I'd like to have different teams work on different things. Different teams for items, art direction, single player modes (possibly broken down more from here), stage builder, online etc.
 

DekuBoy

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Get EAD to do singleplayer and HAL to do multiplayer. The ultimate team!!!

I would like a cool new art-style. Can't describe what I want but... I want it.
 

Pieman0920

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I believe both of you are saying the same thing. Gameplay and balance should be top priority in SSB4. The other features are not afterthoughts and let you do more things with the gameplay.

Think of it this way. I want to have as many people as possible working on the gameplay, characters, balance, stages etc. In the mean time, I'd like to have different teams work on different things. Different teams for items, art direction, single player modes (possibly broken down more from here), stage builder, online etc.
Not really, because again, this is putting 1v1 gameplay in the drivers seat for the game, when itsn't the main thing the majority of Smash fans are interested in.

As far as I'm concerned, priority one for Smash 4 should be based on some expanded form of gameplay that makes it completely distinguishable from past Smash games, on not just a competative level, but also a casual level, and that has to be the next game's major selling point. (In my mind, this would be a new button, though I suppose it could be something else) That way we can pottentially have a good hook for the larger casual fanbase, and still have it be legitametly competative for the longer lasting hardcore fanbase. After that has been established though, Smash 4's development should be broken up into two teams, each with equal importance. One designs the more casual friendly things such as stages, items, modes, and what not, and another one focused on balancing out characters in a 1v1 setting, with a lesser focus on group battles. Of course there has to be focus on a few other things out there, such as a revamped online system, single player mode and all the nostalgia jazz, which also can't be ignored.

At least that's what I think. :embarrass
 

Big-Cat

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Maybe something that puts all the series in some anime style. If you think about it, most Nintendo series features some type of anime style.

Mario kind of reminds me of older anime like Astroboy (but not as cartoony) but with a modern flair.
Zelda is pretty obvious.
Metroid is realistic kind of like GitS and Fire Emblem now has this style (see Wiki).
Pokemon's pretty obvious.
Starfox is based off of kemono.
Those are few. The only one in Smash that doesn't seem to have some sort of anime root is Snake, but it shouldn't be hard to give him an art shift.

Whatever it is, I just don't want Peach's dress to look painted on again, or for Toon Link to look out of place without his cel-shaded filters.
 

Pieman0920

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In regards to a art style, I really don't think the Melee/Brawl's style should be abandoned. It works, and complaints about the details in things like dresses and what not can pottentially be solved by the higher amount of processing power in a new system.

edit: Eww @ Star Fox Kemono
 

Big-Cat

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They probably could've done those details if they so wished. That or get rid of some of those details that aren't overly necessary.

Starfox is kemono. There's no denying it. Not to mention that not all furry and kemono artists are like that.
 

Big-Cat

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The reason I bring it up is that it's a basic example of my beefs with what the current graphics.

When you say art style, do you mean the one in the Wiki link? Remember that that's an old drawing from a different time period. Nowadays, this is modern kemono.

http://en.wikifur.com/w/images/thumb/4/46/Kemono_warthog.jpg/200px-Kemono_warthog.jpg

Mind you that, like anime, not all of it looks the same. There's a Soul Reaper in Bleach who's another example of it.
 
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As long as Wolf remains a character in SSB4, I will be happy, but I kinda miss Mewtwo. I mean, Lucario is cool and all but...it's freakin' Mewtwo!

Also, I think the Smash series could use some of this guy:

 

Senjen

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you could try ripping Lloyd Irving from tales of symphonia: dawn of a new world ^^

and import him into brawl if your a character ...
 

Arcadenik

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Whatever it is, I just don't want Peach's dress to look painted on again, or for Toon Link to look out of place without his cel-shaded filters.
Ironic considering that the often-used reason against WW Link's inclusion in Brawl was "but the cel-shaded graphics won't fit with Brawl's realistic graphics!"

Now, I have come up with 10 new items I would like to see in SSB4. Here you go. Don't quote the whole post!

Short video of an Animal Crosser getting stung.

Bee Hive - the bee hives of the Animal Crossing series; be cautious of this item because you cannot pick it up at all, instead it can only be attacked like the Soccer Ball item; when the Bee Hive hits a character or lands on the ground, it breaks and many bees swarm out to sting nearby opponents (including yourself) for a few seconds and the damage percentages rapidly grow much like how Olimar's Final Smash raised damage percentages while the spaceship took off (1% per sting)



Bombchu - the mouse-like mobile bomb first appeared in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time; it works just like the Hothead item in which it moves along the stage when you throw it, it will explode when it collides with an opponent or an container (Crate, Barrel, etc.) or another explosive (Bob-omb, Smart Bomb, etc.)



Djinn - the elemental entities from the Golden Sun series; they jump and run around the stage; picking up one does nothing but picking up two, three, or four of the same color of Djinni will enable you to summon one of the 12 Summons from the original Golden Sun game; you summon a Summon by simply pressing the B button; much like the Dragoon Parts, other opponents can steal your Djinn by attacking you to make you drop them; to ensure that the game won't confuse the controls between Final Smash and Summon, the Smash Ball won't appear while the Djinn are on the stage; to ensure that the gameplay won't be too broken, the Dragoon Parts won't appear while the Djinn are on the stage; only one color of Djinni will appear until the Summon is called; it is like a cross between Dragoon Parts, Final Smashes, and Pokeball Pokemon

EDIT: per Kuma's suggestion, I changed the gifs into links

Ramses: 2 Venus Djinn
Cybele: 3 Venus Djinn
Judgment: 4 Venus Djinn

Kirin: 2 Mars Djinn
Tiamat: 3 Mars Djinn
Meteor: 4 Mars Djinn

Atalanta: 2 Jupiter Djinn
Procne: 3 Jupiter Djinn
Thor: 4 Jupiter Djinn

Nereid: 2 Mercury Djinn
Neptune: 3 Mercury Djinn
Boreas: 4 Mercury Djinn



Game Boy - the original Game Boy from 1989; it is very durable that you can throw it around; when it hits an opponent, the opponent is stunned for a few seconds as if they were hit by the Deku Nut item; when an opponent walks/runs past the Game Boy that you threw, they pick it up and play it and become distracted for a few seconds; the distracted opponent is unable to attack as they walk around with eyes on the Game Boy screen like a five-year-old boy walking around in the mall while playing with his Nintendo DS (they snap out of it sooner if they were attacked)



Goomba's Shoe - the famous green wind-up shoe from Super Mario Bros. 3; your character loses the ability to use moves (except for up B moves in which you use to get out of the shoe) and speed but gains higher jumping height and the ability to footstool opponents every time you land; you stop riding the shoe when you get attacked with a smash move or a meteor smash or when the effects wear off



Ice Flower - debuted in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time and later appeared in Super Mario Galaxy and New Super Mario Bros. Wii; it is the ice version of the Fire Flower item in Smash; you can use it the same way you use the Fire Flower item only it shoots blizzards that can freeze enemies at high percentages (it is essentially the mobile version of the Ice Climbers' down B move)



Mike - debuted in Kirby's Dream Land as an item and later as one of the many Copy abilities in subsequent Kirby games; pick it up and it does nothing but press the A button and you will start singing, the sound waves will damage nearby opponents within the radius much like the Barbara the Bat Assist Trophy; you can use this item three times before it disappears



POW Block - debuted in Mario Bros. way back in 1983 and appeared in many Mario games since then; throw it to the ground and it will produce a powerful earthquake; the earthquake will cause all grounded opponents to get buried as if they were hit with the Pitfall item and cause all grounded containers (Crates, Barrels, etc.) to break open and let items scatter and cause all grounded explosive items (Bob-ombs, Smart Bombs, etc.) to explode

EDIT 2: per Pieman's suggestion, the giant pics are replaced with a small pic and two links

The toy. The WiiWare game.

Ultra Hand - it is a real-life toy created by Gunpei Yokoi and released in 1967 and has a WiiWare game exclusive to Japanese Club Nintendo members; pick it up and it will be stored above your character's icon much like how the Dragoon Parts are stored in Brawl; other characters can steal your Ultra Hand by attacking you to make you drop it much like how Dragoon Parts are in Brawl; when you have the Ultra Hand stored and you fall offscreen, the item will be automatically activated and it will quickly extend all the way to the nearest ledge and pull you back up (it is basically auto tether recovery)



Whirlwind - a pinwheel-like item from The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks; it works like Link's Gale Boomerang only without the boomerang returning part and you use the A button instead of the B button when you use this item; smash forward and hold it forward while pressing the A button will make the tornado blow straight ahead; smash forward and hold it upward while pressing the A button will make the tornado blow diagonally upward ahead; smash forward and hold it downward while pressing the A button will make the tornado blow diagonally downward; the tornado merely blows the opponents away in a similar manner to Squirtle's Water Gun and moves items further away in a similar manner to Link's Gale Boomerang
 

Azuraith

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I've been hearing a lot of news about download content comming to the wii, and 27 games will be getting new content including brawl. Aparently brawl is getting 4 new characters and 2 new stages at the cost of some wii points.
Can anyone confirm or deny?
 

#HBC | J

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^

I realy like these ideas but there are a few more that would be cool

I lawled at the Gameboy one for a bit xD Imagine Jigglypuff or Ganondorf playing it

Otherwise those are kindof smart choices.

I've been hearing a lot of news about download content comming to the wii, and 27 games will be getting new content including brawl. Aparently brawl is getting 4 new characters and 2 new stages at the cost of some wii points.
Can anyone confirm or deny?
Im gonna say Deny cuz it's not logical and seems to good to be true
 

ToiseOfChoice

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I like the whole "I could direct this thing if I put a little effort into it" type of attitude some people get. Also Kuma appears to have an awful lot of very specific grievances.



@Koops: Have you ever actually met anyone who doesn't think SE is a big enough company to have something they own in Smash?

Anyway, I'd figure making a little list of possible SE characters would be ideal. Gonna start with Final Fantasy since it's the most popular and has the biggest selection. This is focused on candidates that fit under one of three categories:

=== Classes ===
- Warrior [of Light, I guess]
- White Mage
- Black Mage
- Onion Knight

=== Leads ===
- Firion (FFII)
- Cecil (FFIV)
- Bartz (FFV)
- Terra/Locke/etc. (FFVI)
- Vaan/Ashe/etc. (FFXII)

=== Recurrers ===
- Chocobo
- Mog/Moogle
- Gilgamesh

Probably some others but someone else would have to bring them to attention, I'm rusty on FF stuff.

Not on the list are characters from FFVII through FFXI, FFXIII and beyond, and any spinoffs. And no, Kingdom Hearts cameos probably don't count. Probably shouldn't even include FFXII but meh.

I don't have time for character assessments right now, I'll get to it later, so I'm hoping for everyone else's thoughts. And I should mention I know crap about Dragon Quest, someone else would have to make a list for that (even if it's just Slime).



@Arcadenik: You really need all them gifs?
 

Big-Cat

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I like the whole "I could direct this thing if I put a little effort into it" type of attitude some people get. Also Kuma appears to have an awful lot of very specific grievances.
Heh, that I do. To me, it's kind of a "It's good, but it can be much better." kind of thing.

I'm aware of the work involved in directing games and that it's very taxing on anyone. Mind you that what I say is purely idealistic. Things don't ever go as planned. I apologize if I sound arrogant.

Also, GARUGAMESH!
 

Arcadenik

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Well, yeah, I didn't want to type descriptions for each Summon when a gif is all that's needed to describe what a Summon would do. :p
 

Arcadenik

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I suppose... but enough about gifs. What do you think of the items I suggested? Personally I like the Djinn idea the best. And it would give the Golden Sun series a lot of exposure even if there is no playable character.
 

Starphoenix

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I've been hearing a lot of news about download content comming to the wii, and 27 games will be getting new content including brawl. Aparently brawl is getting 4 new characters and 2 new stages at the cost of some wii points.
Can anyone confirm or deny?
It would help if you link to some sources, or else you will come across as one using "reverse psychology trolling."

@Toise:

I can come up with some Dragon Quest ideas later, currently I am preoccupied with work, college, and Megaman 10. lol
 

Arcadenik

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I edited my post. The gifs are gone but they are in the links now.
 

Pieman0920

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You may need to edit it again Arc. At least those two pictures with the Ultra Hand being right next to each other. (Just put the one under the other and I think the page will be fine again) Anyways comments on the items~

Beehive: I HATE THIS THING...In Animal Crossing. I have no problem with your item though. :p

...the other items...Wait I have no problems or real comments about them. Good job. We so seldom get item ideas around here. Its actually quite difficult to come up with original things. (Though I guess the Djinn thing may be a bit much)
 

Arcadenik

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I edited my post. Glad to know you like my item ideas. :) I don't know why we seldomly get item ideas around here...
 

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I like the bombachu, and I think their should be a some kind of Damage trader item...Maybe A Boo from the Mario Party Series? Something that swithces Damages of two characters...
 

Arcadenik

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Boo could work but it wouldn't make sense to "pick up" a ghost... if we are going to have an item that switches damage, I suggest the Reverse Mushroom from Super Mario All-Stars. Anyone who ever played Super Mario Bros. 3 on the SNES would know that there is a battle mode very similar to Mario Bros. Occasionally this mushroom would appear and it would switch Mario and Luigi's places and sizes.
 

Pieman0920

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Right behind you with a knife.
Boos would work out better as ATs.

Anyways, I guess we don't get item suggestions that much, because most people don't really use them much around here, plus the fact that most of the good ideas are alredy taken. I came up with about two or three earlier on in the topic (Those little wind-up toys from Pokemon Rumble, and the boxing glove on a rope from Punch Out, and maybe one other thing that's not coming to mind now) but no on really cared. :p
 

Big-Cat

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I'd change the bee hive to where it's kind of like a pinata. It has a certain amount of "HP" and if it breaks when thrown at someone or someone swings it away. The person who broke it gets stung only.

The bombchu is another nice one. My only beef is that it's like the barrels that can randomly explode except it always happens here. Why not keep it like it was in the Zelda games where it travels a fixed distance, goes up, over, and around stages, and then explodes? I could see some nice strategies with this.

12 Summons seems a little overboard. I'd keep it to where you need four Djinn, and you get that big summon.

Don't really care for the Gameboy and Kuribo's Shoe one. In fact, the latter seems like it takes away too much for what it's giving you.

To make the Ice Flower different, how about you have it shoot ice balls?

I'd like to see Fox or Samus doing Mike. Should be funny.

Pow Block seems a little overpowering in that case. Why not make it so everyone on the ground is knocked into the air, but everything else is the same?

Ultra Hand seems like a nice tool. I guess, in a way, this can be a handicap for people who still can't recover.

I'd prefer the Whirlwind to be a weapon for Toon Link, but that's just me.
 
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