Well, discussion has kind of stopped, so I feel it's time we settled and moved on. For our next discussion, I think Diddy Kong should be the topic, as he gives a lot of us less experienced people a lot of trouble.
@norad: Who cares if other fighting game communities "hate" us? If they really do hate us for something as trivial as doing something a different, yet legitimate way to them, then it's their problem, not ours. Considering each character's options for each and every one of the opponent character's options isn't a foolish or silly thing to do, and it establishes grounds for the tier lists, and tier list development. Rather than just player performance, which is not easily quantified.
In final, to sum up the Wario matchup, I've written my synopsis. I hope to spend the next day gathering corrections and additions so we can move on to the next matchup.
Pros:
- Superior ground game
- More reliable killing moves, with bair, uair and side B much easier to connect than with Wario’s uair, fsmash and waft.
- Uair out prioritises his dair (unqualified)
Cons:
- Slower horizontally in the air
- Weaker grab game
- Medium difference in survivability
Final Verdict: I say 55:45 in ZSS favour, easily debatable for a 50:50, but I don't see how it's in Wario's favour.
Matchup Advice:
- Game Plan:
Press your advantage in the medium range and in the air. Punish baits or shielded smashes with your killer moves, lest they be in the right percentage range, else grab to whatever aerial takes your fancy. Be wary during the second minute of the game, where they will be trying to take an early stock with their mid-charged waft.
- Suitpiece Strategy:
Wario will most likely negate any potential advantage with hasty throwers by biting them into nonexistence. General suitpiece gameplay will suffice, but always be wary of bite. The lag upon eating an item isn’t so significant as to punish, but you can attempt to glidetoss to quickly approach.
- Long Range:
Apart from the slight possibility of Wario biking towards you, neither character can do anything from long range.
- Medium Range:
ZSS definitely has the advantage here, however it can quickly be reduced by failing to space or to pursue an inadequate manoeuvre. Well spaced Side-B’s will keep the pressure on Wario’s shield. However, in the air, be wary of Wario’s airdodge, his aerial speed can close the gap very quickly and punish bad spacing if applied. Sporadic use of the paralyser will continue the pressure and may give you the opportunity to approach, however the bike shield will come into use if used predictably (charging may not be as effective in this matchup). To comment on the bike, however, it may not be used as often as it will be 100% necessary for Wario to use in his recovery. If he does use his bike, keeping him away from destroying it while constantly pressuring him off the stage could lead to early (relative) KO’s. Dsmash, spaced well, is effective shield pressuring and if landed, can result in a grab released fair/nair/uair/bair. Pummel during grab once or twice to freshen up moves, but you don’t need me to tell you that. However, that being said, Dsmash will be tricky to land, as for most of the time, Wario should be in the air pursuing you, above the Dsmashable zone. You cannot grab Wario at the peak of his SH, but you can at any other time during it. Coincidentally, you cannot dsmash him at the peak, but you can at anytime else. Therefore dsmashing Wario at anytime during his SH leads to double dsmash -> grab release fair.
- Close Range:
Wario will be fighting vigorously to reach the close range, and it will most probably happen, despite the effectiveness of your mid range mixups. Your OOS options consist mostly of jab, utilt and ftilt, which are only just faster than his options. Jab may result in eating a fsmash, so use it conservatively. Baiting the fsmash and pivot dsmashing is potentially useful. (pretty sure it’ll work, not confirmed though so yeah). Speaking of punishing, you can definitely punish any shielded fsmash’s or dsmash’s, and expect them at around 90-100% damage. Your kills will be either in punishing whiffed or blocked smashes or in the air. If Wario manages to approach you, do not let him so close as to be in clap range. The clap hitbox is Wario’s entire body, and is one of his major kill moves. Excessive spacing should always put you in a better position than him, however. Try your best to get Wario in the air, above you, as this is always your realm. Wario will win a prolonged boxing match due to a superior shieldgrab and brute force, however if your utilt isn’t shielded then you should be able to retreat and consolidate. A worthy element to note is your force tripping ftilt. If you trip Wario at lower percentages, Wario’s options are limited. Rolling backwards away from ZSS will result in an inescapable grab, whereas the getup attack, standard getup and rolling forwards towards ZSS will eat a dsmash, slightly charged. Dsmashing from 0-40% remains a safe option, but a situational advantage nonetheless. (needs further testing). So all that remains is…the Wario Waft. My advice is to pay attention to the clock. Within the first minute of the game, they won’t waft. You better be watching out at about 1:30 in, the horizontal knockback is at its peak around here and will kill you ridiculously early. If you predict it, expect it, and are willing to risk it, you can interrupt with your 1 frame jab, as the second stage of charge comes out in 5 frames, but I believe that it is way too risky and being a stock behind because of a well-timed waft is not something you want happening. Be wary during the 1 minute to 2 minute stage, as they are most likely looking for the perfect opportunity to waft here, where you “aren’t expecting it”. At two minutes onwards, play extremely carefully; try your absolute hardest to get to your medium range play, where you can press your advantages.
- In the air:
You definitely have the advantage below Wario, with your uair outprioritising his most favoured attack, dair (Snakeee’s word). However, Wario can quickly reverse this position with a well-timed airdodge, putting you in danger of a fresh clap. Nair is a quick option, coming out in 4 frames with a second hitbox not too much sooner. I’m pretty sure uair beats out all of his aerials, so it’s a matter of him not airdodging. Using upB to force the airdodge followed by aerials sounds reasonable. You want Wario to be above you, not below.
- When Wario is Recovering:
Wario will try to recover high, as he doesn’t want to rely on his subpar upB. If you take his bike out of the recovery equation, it means almost certain death. Therefore, if he carelessly abandons it, or if you can force him off with well timed and spaced side B’s, press your advantage, proceeding to push him off the stage. Simply knocking him a fair distance away from the stage will kill him without his bike to boost his jump. With the bike in use, trying to predict where he will detach and hitting him away will result in the stock. Don’t rely on gimps to win this match, he is a tough character to gimp, but taking his bike away is the most effective way. Try not to destroy the bike while acting aggressively, as well.
- When ZSS is Recovering:
Unlike Wario, he cannot remove our extra recovery tools. However, he can do the second best thing with his fair and negate its use. This will occur if you use it too low or too often off the edge. Wario will also use his bike as a creative edgeguard, throwing it off the stage, most likely as you tether and fall downwards. If he throws it at you without you initiating a tether, downB footstool it and recover safely. You want to save your downB if he has a bike out, or even when he doesn’t, as it is fairly fast and will kill you if you mess up.
- Matchup Unique Information:
These matches will be long. Wario is the master of aircamping and will be relentlessly trying to break into your wall of side B’s, neutral B’s and the constant threat of the aerial barrage.
Counterpick Advice:
- Stages to Counter-pick:
Wario generally does well on stages that we do well on, namely Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar and Battlefield. You want to avoid Battlefield for the most part, as the platforms assist his killing power greatly, while only helping your spacing and juggling game. As he will be living longer than you, you cannot afford to be killed early by claps and especially wafts. He doesn’t do particularly well on Final Destination, and would be an ideal location for your spacing shenanigans. Lylat Cruise is a similar stage, but would be a much more even stage than FD. I suggest a stage that you are most comfortable on, as the stage will be only a small factor. Unless the stage is FD.
- Stages to Avoid:
Smashville is much too cramped for the excessive spacing that you will need to use to win in this match. Unless you were extremely comfortable with Battlefield, I would not recommend it as a CP as it does accentuate Wario’s major downfall in this matchup, the reliability of his kill moves.
Wario Contributors:
PhantomX
Morphed_Chaos
Dr.mario.guy
Yeah, tl;dr, etc, but please read and give your thoughts to it's accuracy. All information was gotten from this thread, Wario boards information, including frame data and stage discussion, a little testing (it's hard to do it without 4 hands :\) and a bit of thinking on my behalf. Methinks that's where I'll go wrong lol.
