One time shot or forever?

[MasterOfKnees]

Squirtle and ivysaur have to be cut or there would be too many pokemon reps same with mewtwo, mewtwo was also cut because of time constraints

I know, but fact still lies that he was outprioritized by semi-clones like Toon Link, Lucas, Falco, etc. Being unique, while a plus, can't solidify a character on the roster forever.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I know, but fact still lies that he was outprioritized by semi-clones like Toon Link, Lucas, Falco, etc. Being unique, while a plus, can't solidify a character on the roster forever.

But they still had too many pokemon reps, that's probably the main reason he wasn't included. Pikachu and jigglypuff were the veterans, pokemon trainer was a new idea he had and he had to represent 4th gen with lucario and obviously they can't have more reps than mario and they only wanted to include 4 mario characters because of these factors mewtwo had to be cut

 

[MasterOfKnees]

But they still had too many pokemon reps, that's probably the main reason he wasn't included. Pikachu and jigglypuff were the veterans, pokemon trainer was a new idea he had and he had to represent 4th gen with lucario and obviously they can't have more reps than mario and they only wanted to include 4 mario characters because of these factors mewtwo had to be cut

To be fair we're going to face the same problem this time then, since Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are both missing at the moment. Doesn't matter though, since Sakurai always viewed Brawl as having 39 characters, aka he counts transformation characters seperately, meaning Pokémon had 6 characters in Brawl following that logic.

 

[Sonicguy726]

To be fair we're going to face the same problem this time then, since Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are both missing at the moment. Doesn't matter though, since Sakurai always viewed Brawl as having 39 characters, aka he counts transformation characters seperately, meaning Pokémon had 6 characters in Brawl following that logic.

But there can't be more pokemon slots on the roster than mario and jigglypuff is of slightly higher priority at least in my wyes

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Pokemon deserves=reps to mario but maybe not,which games sell more now anyway?I don't see why they don't consider Yoshi as a mario rep and same goes for Wario.They have their own games but I feel yoshi is just a spin-off of Mario games,same could be said for Wario.

 

[DakotaBonez]

I wouldn't say he's unique, his moveset doesn't really offer anything new to smash bros.
Substitute is similar to Lucario's counter, His Up special looks like a copy of Pikachu's, his water ninja stars are similar to samus or Lucario's charge shot, and his movements are similar to shiek or lucario.
He's about as different as Lucario is to Mewtwo, which is pretty different, but to say he's a totally unique character with a moveset unlike any other's is a poor argument as to why he should stay. Ivysaur however had a unique moveset with attacks focusing on hitting airborn characters and unique movements due to his small size and movement on four legs instead of 2.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I wouldn't say he's unique, his moveset doesn't really offer anything new to smash bros.
Substitute is similar to Lucario's counter, His Up special looks like a copy of Pikachu's, his water ninja stars are similar to samus or Lucario's charge shot, and his movements are similar to shiek or lucario.
He's about as different as Lucario is to Mewtwo, which is pretty different, but to say he's a totally unique character with a moveset unlike any other's is a poor argument as to why he should stay. Ivysaur however had a unique moveset with attacks focusing on hitting airborn characters and unique movements due to his small size and movement on four legs instead of 2.

But ivysaur has a legit reason for being cut greninja doesn't

 

[Ryan.]

Hard to tell right now. He looks really cool though and I think he deserves more than a one time shot.

 

[False Sense]

But they still had too many pokemon reps, that's probably the main reason he wasn't included. Pikachu and jigglypuff were the veterans, pokemon trainer was a new idea he had and he had to represent 4th gen with lucario and obviously they can't have more reps than mario and they only wanted to include 4 mario characters because of these factors mewtwo had to be cut

I feel like you quoted directly from a certain video...

And I don't think there's an established rule that Mario has to have the most characters. That's just something we assumed.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I feel like you quoted directly from a certain video...

And I don't think there's an established rule that Mario has to have the most characters. That's just something we assumed.

He found me out, abort, abort. But mario is the biggest nintendo series so they should have the most characters

 

[False Sense]

He found me out, abort, abort. But mario is the biggest nintendo series so they should have the most characters

Yes, that's a logical way of thinking. But it's not a fact that they have to have the most characters. I don't think it's completely unreasonable for a series as large as Pokemon to have more characters than the Mario series. And technically, that was the case in Brawl.

 

[Sonicguy726]

Yes, that's a logical way of thinking. But it's not a fact that they have to have the most characters. I don't think it's completely unreasonable for a series as large as Pokemon to have more characters than the Mario series. And technically, that was the case in Brawl.

They had 4 slots just like mario and just like Zelda

 

[False Sense]

They had 4 slots just like mario and just like Zelda

But there were six total characters, which Sakurai acknowledges. That's more than any series has ever received.

 

[Sonicguy726]

But there were six total characters, which Sakurai acknowledges. That's more than any series has ever received.

If he acknowledges it and he doesn't care if pokemon or zelda have more slots than mario then why weren't sheik, zero suit, squirtle and ivysaur seperate characters

 

[False Sense]

If he acknowledges it and he doesn't care if pokemon or zelda have more slots than mario then why weren't sheik, zero suit, squirtle and ivysaur seperate characters

...Because it fit thematically with the individual characters? I mean, it wasn't until Smash 4 came along and started focusing on balancing gameplay did we see those kinds of characters separated. I doubt they were crammed together just to make the roster look nice; those characters were together because they were either the same person or part of a team being controlled by a single entity. Honestly, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

But I think this is starting to derail the topic. In regards to Greninja staying or not, that really depends on how he holds up in the future. If he goes on to become this really popular, really iconic pokemon, then he'll probably stick around. Otherwise, he might get replaced for whatever's the newest thing. At the moment, it's hard to say.

 

[DakotaBonez]

If Greninja gets his own movie maybe he might stay...no doubt that Greninja is probably the coolest current pokemon next to Hawlucha.
Its a damn shame that Ivysaur's unique moveset might be lost due to him being such an oddball character choice.
I think Jiggly is set in stone at this point as smash bros designated joke character.

 

[Koopaul]

I thought Lucario was a one time thing. Heh, I don't know what to expect anymore.

 

[NintenRob]

I think he could stay. I don't expect Mewtwo to come back so it will probably get this 5 (assuming Jigglypuff) + gen 7/8 pokemon.

after all, Brawl had 6 reps.

 

[The Curious Volnutt]

He'll be a One-shot. Just like Mewtwo.
Edit: I had just woken up and was tired, this post seemed smart at the time.

 

[Bowserlick]

If Greninja stays popular in the series, he will stay.

Smash will probably cement him as a pokemon favorite (at least with a broader audience than he already established).

Expect a Mega-Evolution down the line.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Smash 4 isn't out yet, and we're already arguing if he'll be in Smash 5?
*Shakes head ruefully*

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I will say that unless something major happens, Greninja will be cut in the next game.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I will say that unless something major happens, Greninja will be cut in the next game.

Wasn't the same said about lucario

 

[Morbi]

Wasn't the same said about lucario

Yeah; and Lucario was much more prominent and prevalent at the time.

 

[Sonicguy726]

Yeah; and Lucario was much more prominent and prevalent at the time.

And greninja is pretty prominent and prevalent right now, who knows what the future of pokemon holds

 

[Morbi]

And greninja is pretty prominent and prevalent right now, who knows what the future of pokemon holds

I wont believe it until I see my Grenina movie!

Seriously though, his role in Smash is all he really needs to be considered for a future title. Especially if his apparently unique move-set is truly unique.

 

[Curious Villager]

Eh I can see them repromoting the heck out of him again at the last minute during 8th gen like they did with Lucario. Like giving him a mega evolution or whatever new gimmick they will come up for it by then.

Else I'm not sure, but Sakurai might keep him again if he really likes him or if his popularity stays high by then.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

And greninja is pretty prominent and prevalent right now, who knows what the future of pokemon holds

We'll see. Lucario had a consistent fanbase throughout generations as well as getting buffs throughout generations. (easy availability in gen 5, mega evolution in gen 6) as well as being viable in competitive pokemon for a long time (pretty much all the generations he's been in). If Greninja stays as good as he is in the pokemon meta as well as getting buffs in the future, he will definitely be in the next smash game.
Edit: Part of what makes me think he's a one shot is that he's not going to be available unless through trading in the next pokemon games which is really going to hurt his popularity.

 

[Hitzel]

To me, Greninja seems to be one of those characters that the close-knit Smash community isn't as excited about as the general gaming community is. I wouldn't let the bias against him here cloud my judgement of how the rest of the world perceives him.

Everybody and their mother bred or traded for a Protean Froakie in XY.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

To me, Greninja seems to be one of those characters that the close-knit Smash community isn't as excited about as the general gaming community is. I wouldn't let the bias against him here cloud my judgement of how the rest of the world perceives him.

Everybody and their mother bred or traded for a Protean Froakie in XY.

I consider myself part of the close-knit Smash community, and I'm still excited for him. Then again, I'm also a hard-core Nintendo fan who bred and bred until I got a Protean Froakie with perfect IVs.

 

[NocturnalQuill]

I think a lot of us assumed Lucario's neck was on the block, but he's back. But then again, if Mewtwo could be cut when the Pokemon roster was expanded from 4 to 6 between Melee and Brawl, I'd have to think that anyone other than Pikachu is expendable.

It should be noted that Mewtwo has assets in Brawl's files, including voice acting that did not appear in Melee, presumably for a final smash. Sakurai did not intend to cut him.

As for Greninja, if Lucario, a character made popular by promotion and movie appearances, can have staying power, then Greninja, a character made popular by genuine fan adoration, has nothing to worry about. Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't nearly as significant or popular as Charizard, and their exclusion is a consequence of the removal of transformation characters.

 

[Zuby]

It should be noted that Mewtwo has assets in Brawl's files, including voice acting that did not appear in Melee, presumably for a final smash. Sakurai did not intend to cut him.

As for Greninja, if Lucario, a character made popular by promotion and movie appearances, can have staying power, then Greninja, a character made popular by genuine fan adoration, has nothing to worry about. Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't nearly as significant or popular as Charizard, and their exclu ission is a consequence of the removal of transformation characters.

First of all, Squirtle and Ivysaur haven't been confirmed to be excluded. It seems very likely, but it's not confirmed.

And as for the whole Mewtwo in Brawl business, the fact remains that Jigglypuff and Lucario were prioritised ahead of it, and it's not like Red/Blue/Green and Diamond/Pearl were new and in need of promotion.

For me the Pokemon series is sort of a weird outlier where significance to the game/franchise takes a backseat to external factors (like the movies you mentioned). Pikachu and Charizard are fair enough as version mascots, and Mewtwo was effectively the end-boss. I guess Lucario gets a step out of the pack since you're forced to use it in X/Y, but Jigglypuff, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Greninja have no more *in game* significance than the 700 others they beat to land these roles. And if we accept that, then everyone becomes expendable.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Lucario stayed in smash 4 because he was significantly important in XY. Heck, there was an entire section based on Lucario. Greninja may fall under the same case. If in future generations he gains a significant purpose, then he probably gets thrown in there again, but for now I say 1 shot.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Yeah your right,this topic should probably just die until the new pokemon comes out and we see who's in that.

Oh, I actually meant Super Smash Bros. 3DS and Wii U. I mean the Smash game Greninja is in isn't even out yet and y'all are concerned he won't be in the next one? How about wait a year. Or until the next Smash Bros. is announced.

Also, the 3DS version and the Wii U version are considered separate games. So he's already planned to be in 2. So, he can't be a one time shot. A two time shot, sure.

Who even says there will be another SSB game, anyway?

 

[Jade_Rock55]

I actually don't see another smash....(at least one directed by Sakurai) due to his hand problems.

 

[Takehiko]

I think what it really comes down to is doing the character justice. Like fot the L ucario that was in Brawl, Sakurai didn't do his utmost best to allow the character be seen in his own light, so him bringing him back would be something to show that he wants Lucario to be unblemished this time around. For Greninja, it might be on the thing of trying to bring something new in because when you think about Mewtwo getting in then Sakurai already did him justice in Melee, so that might be why we haven't seen him or he possibly might not get back into the game. Plus it could be the rivalry of Water Vs Fire why Charizard is in there. (The relating to a post about Smash4 theme being Fire and Ice)

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

One shot. Will be forgotten when gen 7 comes out while charizard, jigglypuff, pikachu, mewtwo and lucario remain popular.

Plus he's a starter he can't really appear in other regions like pikachu, jigglypuff and lucario.

Mewtwo has his legendary status and gen 1 love

Charizard is the most iconic starter and gen 1 favorite.

Jigglypuff cause she's part of the original 12, gen 1 fan favorite and it's the cute one of the group.

I dunno why people keep saying Greninja is the face of x/Y/gen 6 when in reality he barely appeared or did little to nothing where's lucario was prominent through most of the game.

Lucario was pretty much the mascot of gen 6 for being a gen 4 poke on.

I think game freak just desperately needed to rep x and y and chose Greninja. Don't get me wrong I love Greninja and choose Froakie but Greninja just felt like he was forced to be in.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wasn't the same said about lucario

Yeah. And major things did happen.

Lucario became an icon. Greninja has a lot of catching up to do.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but as of this point, Greninja is nowhere near being an icon or face of anything really.

 

[Banjodorf]

Lucario and Greninja are not currently comparable, positively or negatively.

As of Brawl's release, Lucario was almost three years old, and this is post-conceptually. Greninja on the other hand is brand new. Completely. Since he's likely to receive a mega, and be important in the future, I think it's obvious the same will happen with him that happened to Lucario, but right now, that's just worthless conjecture.

 

[Brendan Stepladder]

It's impossible to say at this point. Every game from Melee onward has had one-off Pokemon and it's very likely Greninja could be replaced by some future new Pokemon that doesn't exist yet.

That being said, a lot of it probably depends on how well Greninja plays. He could go the route of Mewtwo and not make it to the next Smash installment. While Mewtwo was an incredibly popular character because he's f****** Mewtwo, his playstyle was not very popular. Very few people would have appreciated Mewtwo's moveset competitively or casually if it was copy/pasted onto a less popular character. I think because Mewtwo wasn't very fun to play, he was cut in favor of the "safer bet" of Lucario for Brawl. If Greninja isn't very fun to play as, he could suffer the same fate Mewtwo did in Smash 5.