Out of order, new matchup thread coming soon!

[istudying]

There were no good Brawl players at smack.

And there were much bigger brawl tourneys in the EU in '09 ... there were french tourneys with more than 100 ppl so stop writing nonsense.



He has no serious competition



He got second in a 120 man tourney (twice as big as the brawl attendane at smack), where even the guy, who placed 9th is a lot better than reaper.

Besides, Jumpman wouldn't lose to a mediocre Sheik like reaper did.

Am i the guy who placed 9th =3.
Jumpman would **** Reaper. And i would **** both.
But we'll se at TSL4.

 

[Staco]

Why do U know, that reaper isnt that good? Did one of U guys, which rate him, play him?
Or Gheb, did U play jumpman and reaper?
If U watch vids of the players U cant really say that one of them looks much better or sth. like that.
I dont think, that reaper is that good, too.
But I dont think that U simply can beat him or armada.
There just arent any proofs atm, so nobody should say, that reaper will easily get ***** by Jumpman.
Armada is still one of the guys, which got big chances to win TSL Brawl.

Oh and: I know that a lot of U guys are thinking, that reaper just spams up b etc.
But he really doesnt spam it, if his enemy starts to punish it.

And U shouldnt rate germany bad, if no germans played guys out of other countires, except a small amount of players at SMACK.
And dont forget that there are players like Luigi_Player and Koukyn, which did really good at tourneys in their region, but which werent at SMACK. (I count LP as german, because the most swiss and austria players are part of the german community)

Just stop rating players, if there arent any proofs.
If Armada gets ***** at TSL, then U maybe can say, germany sucks, because Armada wins a big tourney there, but he looses to a lot of players from other countries.

Wait for proofs, k?

first possibility: Wolf sucks and he doesnt stand a chance vs. MK
second possibility: there arent much good Wolfs in america and thats why the MU isnt represented in reality (the best MKs win vs. the best Wolfs, maybe because the Wolf players are worse than the MKs)

I wont rate this MU 60:40, until I got some proofs
for me there are this two possibilities and I want to see proofs (not theorie stuff, pratical stuff), before I rate this MU better

 

[-Jumpman-]

First off, you like countering your own arguments Staco. Let's start.

Why do U know, that reaper isnt that good? Did one of U guys, which rate him, play him?
Or Gheb, did U play jumpman and reaper?

He did play me.

If U watch vids of the players U cant really say that one of them looks much better or sth. like that.
I dont think, that reaper is that good, too.

Which you base on what? His vids?

There just arent any proofs atm, so nobody should say, that reaper will easily get ***** by Jumpman.
Armada is still one of the guys, which got big chances to win TSL Brawl.

I don't think "there arent any proofs" results in Armada having a big chance to win TSL.

Oh and: I know that a lot of U guys are thinking, that reaper just spams up b etc.
But he really doesnt spam it, if his enemy starts to punish it.

Regardless of the idea that he can play without spamming, spamming isn't the ideal way of playing MK. And in fact, he got punished by Armada and continued spamming.

And U shouldnt rate germany bad, if no germans played guys out of other countires, except a small amount of players at SMACK.
And dont forget that there are players like Luigi_Player and Koukyn, which did really good at tourneys in their region, but which werent at SMACK. (I count LP as german, because the most swiss and austria players are part of the german community)

About the arguments thingy, Germany =/= Austria. Vienna has his own scene.

I wont rate this MU 60:40, until I got some proofs
for me there are this two possibilities and I want to see proofs (not theorie stuff, pratical stuff), before I rate this MU better

1. Read the thread.
2. Don't claim it not to be 60/40 if you got no "proofs" but the Wolf boards do.

 

[Ishiey]

Staco, it's the second possibility.

Can we please not derail this thing so much? It's hard to be productive when we keep getting thrown off course like this...

 

[Seagull Joe]

wow at all the europeans poppin up to argue. wolf will never be top tier or out of mid even. why u wonder? ill make a list

reasons he wont move up:
-easiest character in the game to cg by most characters(ic,d3,pika,falco,pit,etc...)
-lack of killing moves
-recovery fails and is easily gimped
-doesnt have many matches that are in his favor

reasons he wont move down:
-amazing projectile
-shine gimp
-bair bair bair bair bair bair
-weight
-good spacer


and about the snake vs wolf matchup. i generally dont do as good on snakes cause snake outspaces wolf. but i know tossing them up is what u want to do. u can also reflect mortar,nades, and side b. i say 45-55 snake's favor

 

[-Jumpman-]

Wolf can be high tier imo. And Wolf does NOT lack killing moves. D-smash kills early.

 

[KRDsonic]

Oh wow, some random guy came into the wolf matchup thread to troll about how he overrates MK, interesting.

Wolf vs. MK is no harder than Sheik vs. MK. I do the same with both of them when I fight agianst MK, and I've been using Sheik over a year and Wolf for 4 weeks.

Since this is supposed to be Snake week, just ignore the troll who's most-likely from Gamefaqs so the matchup thread can continue.

 

[Gangsta_inc]

Oh wow, some random guy came into the wolf matchup thread to troll about how he overrates MK, interesting.

Wolf vs. MK is no harder than Sheik vs. MK. I do the same with both of them when I fight agianst MK, and I've been using Sheik over a year and Wolf for 4 weeks.

Since this is supposed to be Snake week, just ignore the troll who's most-likely from Gamefaqs so the matchup thread can continue.

Game set. I believe this is the most likely scenario.
I think the match up against staco is 70:30 in wolf boards favor lol.

but seriously, Wolf users needs some higher placers or else you'll stay underrated. I think he has B potential. and Higher tier players need to get knocked on thier face a bit for everyone to believe it.

not to sound like an *** but What does wolf really have on characters like Snake or Marth or even MK. ? I'm not calling myself a sceptic but it seems limited.

 

[_Kain_]

Game set. I believe this is the most likely scenario.
I think the match up against staco is 70:30 in wolf boards favor lol.

but seriously, Wolf users needs some higher placers or else you'll stay underrated. I think he has B potential. and Higher tier players need to get knocked on thier face a bit for everyone to believe it.

not to sound like an *** but What does wolf really have on characters like Snake or Marth or even MK. ? I'm not calling myself a sceptic but it seems limited.

Marth? Um....Marth really isnt that hard for Wolf....You should mention someone else instead of him

 

[Gangsta_inc]

Marth? Um....Marth really isnt that hard for Wolf....You should mention someone else instead of him

See ? there you go, a common smasher misguided an uninformed about wolf,

 

[castorpollux]

Game set. I believe this is the most likely scenario.
I think the match up against staco is 70:30 in wolf boards favor lol.

but seriously, Wolf users needs some higher placers or else you'll stay underrated. I think he has B potential. and Higher tier players need to get knocked on thier face a bit for everyone to believe it.

not to sound like an *** but What does wolf really have on characters like Snake or Marth or even MK. ? I'm not calling myself a sceptic but it seems limited.

Snake has a REALLY hard time punishing bair.

Wolf is REALLY good at punishing MK's approaches. He is also really heavy, so as long as you don't get gimped, Wolf can live to really high percents.

 

[_Kain_]

See ? there you go, a common smasher misguided an uninformed about wolf,

I dont get where ur going with this?

 

[Gangsta_inc]

I dont get where ur going with this?

wolf is so underrated that no one outside of the wolf boards really care about wolf ?

 

[_Kain_]

wolf is so underrated that no one outside of the wolf boards really care about wolf ?

Ah ok i see what u mean lol....but dats kinda good then since some people don't know wut to expect when they come across a good wolf...same as with ne other player who plays a weird character to there highest level

 

[_Kain_]

Also idk about what stages are good against snake......umm ban stages with low ceilings i think? his up tilt is ridiculous lot of snakes like to CP Halberd so...yea....

 

[MidnightAsaph]

not to sound like an *** but What does wolf really have on characters like Snake or Marth or even MK. ? I'm not calling myself a sceptic but it seems limited.

As long as it's not nighttime, Snake is nothing. Honestly, your Snake doesn't suck, the match-up is just even. Tier lists mean nothing, MUs do. And the Snake/Wolf match-up is even or very close to.

Only DDD is remotely scary.

 

[Gangsta_inc]

As long as it's not nighttime, Snake is nothing. Honestly, your Snake doesn't suck, the match-up is just even. Tier lists mean nothing, MUs do. And the Snake/Wolf match-up is even or very close to.

Only DDD is remotely scary.

....... No, My Snake sucks STFU...
More times than not it's player to player, which explains why I manage to bareley live and scrape away wins. If I didn't know you so well in smash, my tolerance for the game as well as my abundance of V1 ( 70L13$ recently wouldn't exist.

 

[Staco]

The Wolf vs. Snake MU is pretty even.
Snakes granads get mostly useless. It isnt that hard to recover for Wolf and Snake has to approach Wolf. (its hard and maybe not possible to get a good Wolf to approach U, if U are Snake)
But if Snake approaches Wolf has also to use his closerange moves (and not his blaster) or the Snake could get free hits for power shielding the blaster, if he is close to the Wolf.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzS8V8G2Xqk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQaIijdzOkM
good example vids for this MU

And pls dont flame me for having a 70:30 opinion about the MK MU. I also think, that Wolf got some more potential, maybe B Tier. But he has to show this first, before I rate the MU higher or I have to rate every chars MUs higher in their opinion. (except the top tiers)

 

[-Jumpman-]

How can Snake pressure Wolf? With f-tilt? Snake has to properly space f-tilt if he doesn't want to get punished. This means Wolf has enough space to do a fair or w/e.

 

[ArcPoint]

Snake can limit Wolf's options with nades, so a reckless Fair or "w/e" could get him blown up =P

And Fair is punishable with Snake's dash attack. There's a lot of time between when the hitbox goes away and Wolf is finally able to do something again. D=

And Ftilt completely beats out Bair D=

Snake also has an uncanny ability to cover a lot of ground. When you're in the air, Snake can usually reach where you're going to land with a Ftilt or dash attack. Shine will stop a dash attack, but not a horridly disjointed ftilt D= There's also nades to include in this and blah blah blah.

 

[hundreds of utilts]

imo I love the snake wolf match up. It always feels pretty close to even.

Not really much left to say except, try to keep this match in the air and plz don't get grabbed.

also keep in mind everyone expects the bair wall. so empty hops>grab might be an effective mix-up at times...

 

[-Jumpman-]

Snake can limit Wolf's options with nades, so a reckless Fair or "w/e" could get him blown up =P

And Fair is punishable with Snake's dash attack. There's a lot of time between when the hitbox goes away and Wolf is finally able to do something again. D=

And Ftilt completely beats out Bair D=

Snake also has an uncanny ability to cover a lot of ground. When you're in the air, Snake can usually reach where you're going to land with a Ftilt or dash attack. Shine will stop a dash attack, but not a horridly disjointed ftilt D= There's also nades to include in this and blah blah blah.

Lol, really, no. If Snake doesn't roll away, fair hits the shield and the nade won't blow up. If he rolls away, the nade will be on the ground, and it won't blow up. So if the nade blows, you'll give it 13% or something anyway.

 

[_Kain_]

Lol, really, no. If Snake doesn't roll away, fair hits the shield and the nade won't blow up. If he rolls away, the nade will be on the ground, and it won't blow up. So if the nade blows, you'll give it 13% or something anyway.

Your being kinda situational now....it's not gonna be like that everytime, he could pull a nade out while ur doing a crossover fair

 

[-Jumpman-]

Yeah, because every Snake main has superhuman reaction times right? No, because I would DJ once I see the snake is pulling a nade because I'm faster.

 

[_Kain_]

Yeah, because every Snake main has superhuman reaction times right? No, because I would DJ once I see the snake is pulling a nade because I'm faster.

Yea ok i'd like to see u do that against Ally or some other good Snake players than since ur so FAST

 

[-Jumpman-]

My point is, if the Snake can be THAT fast, I can too. And obviously, the Snake can't

 

[Seagull Joe]

ugh snake has an easy time approaching wolf. one dacus and he is there.usually while holding a nade.and u still gotta watch out for the mortar.

 

[KRDsonic]

... it's not hard to laser a mortar slide...

 

[tekkie]

... it's not hard to laser a mortar slide...

If done relatively close it can hit you faster than you can lazor. Or they can just do it if you're in the air.

 

[KRDsonic]

If a Snake is close enough that you can't react to a mortar slide then they're generally better off using a jab or a tilt...

And I wasn't reffering to the air, since you mentioned an approach

 

[Gangsta_inc]

Yeah, because every Snake main has superhuman reaction times right? No, because I would DJ once I see the snake is pulling a nade because I'm faster.

well theres always Ally

 

[tekkie]

If a Snake is close enough that you can't react to a mortar slide then they're generally better off using a jab or a tilt...

There's definitely a region outside of jab/tilt range but before the space it would take for Wolf to lazor. Plus mortar sliding if you're just far enough would put you waaaay past your opponent if they shielded or something, doesn't it?

 

[KRDsonic]

well theres always Ally

If you're going to name Ally, you gotta name Razer too

But yeah, I doubt even Ally would react that quick unless he plays Wolfs all the time that use that same tactic. I've seen him make mistakes before too

Edit:

There's definitely a region outside of jab/tilt range but before the space it would take for Wolf to lazor. Plus mortar sliding if you're just far enough would put you waaaay past your opponent if they shielded or something, doesn't it?

I don't know about most wolfs, but if Snake is at that range, then I generally jump back and laser them, then think from there. Maybe that's why I see his mortar slide as near-useless in this matchup.

 

[Captain Sa10]

Snake in this match-up doesn't have many options other then his usual ground game. Grenade wise, be preped for them since you can easily turn those things in to more of an advantage. STAY OUT OF HIS TILT RANGE! That **** hurts, and f-tilt will surely punish the **** out of you if you attempt a grab, let alone u-tilt as well. Mortar sliding? No biggie. If you not used to it, mortar sliding is a ***** to deal with, but alittle laser camping of our own can stop snake from pretty much doing anything other then going aerial which is exactly were we want him for the most part. His ground game is pretty solid but staying aerial at times can give us an advantage simply because snake himself is an easy target to hit. A few bairs followed by lasers can not only prevent snake from charging freely while grounded, but can prevent other things like a mortar slide, etc. Although, if you do go aerial dont get above directly, otherwise your simply bait for his tilts again which is were you don't want to be.

If you want to secure a grab, throw in some jabs. A quick jab followed by a grab can through him off. Even after a bair, you can follow up with an AAA combo if your quick enough. Fair can be extremely dangerous in this match IMO since his U-tilt can still connect before the fair if your not careful. For the most part, stay observant during the match and be ready to counter the different snakes (grab happy, spammy, etc).

 

[-Jumpman-]

well theres always Ally

Ally doesn't, my fanboy.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Ally doesn't, my fanboy.

XD

That was beautiful. Just beautiful.

 

[Gangsta_inc]

Ally doesn't, my fanboy.

I resent that fanboy statement, I'm not much of a fan of Ally.

 

[tekkie]

I still hate fighting Snake because of the killing problem. Wolf dies at like %120, snake at %160-170. That's like four stocks to three. Plus, considering getting hit by anything is uber crazy damage you can get f**ked up pretty quickly.

 

[KRDsonic]

I don't see why so many people here hate fighting Snake with Wolf. As long as you're constantly thinking then it's not that bad.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I don't see why so many people here hate fighting Snake with Wolf. As long as you're constantly thinking then it's not that bad.

so what ur saying is take some adderall and u will do great?