Overswarm's PROVE IT Contest!

[Wafles]

Have you guys even TRIED to play seriously with each other on banned stages? You'd be surprised how often the better player wins.

It can be fun if it's in friendlies, but what happens in tournament is that often a player will find an exploit in the stage and abuse it for those purposes. It doesn't mean the better player will necesarily lose against someone exploiting those thigns, but it could make for a boring, and unreasonably long match, or something similar, and that's just something smash tournaments don't need.

 

[Eddie G]

Alright, have fun getting half of your advice from scrubs who don't know what they're talking about.

Now you're just trying to get the last word. *headdesk*

I KNOW who I should and shouldn't listen to. It's called COMMON SENSE.

*sigh*...nevermind.

On a side note: I agree with you on one thing, OS needs to stop dodging counter-points so much and just respond already with something other than a one-liner. I know he wants to be all Mr. cool troll and get some laughs (I'm not sure why he still does, must be one bored guy for this to be his entertainment) and everything, but it's kind of lame at this point.

 

[Eddie G]

It can be fun if it's in friendlies, but what happens in tournament is that often a player will find an exploit in the stage and abuse it for those purposes. It doesn't mean the better player will necesarily lose against someone exploiting those thigns, but it could make for a boring, and unreasonably long match, or something similar, and that's just something smash tournaments don't need.

Never use the word "boring" in your arguments here. The pro-whatever guys will just jump all over that and ignore mostly everything else.

Edit: double post, my bad

 

[Wafles]

Well it was just one example of something that could be wrong with a stage, there are many, many other issues that create unreasonable imbalances for certain characters on certain stages.

 

[Overswarm]

On a side note: I agree with you on one thing, OS needs to stop dodging counter-points so much and just respond already with something other than a one-liner. I know he wants to be all Mr. cool troll and get some laughs (I'm not sure why he still does, must be one bored guy for this to be his entertainment) and everything, but it's kind of lame at this point.

and I'm at work!

 

[Eddie G]

and I'm at work!

Then get off of here and work.

 

[Overswarm]

Then get off of here and work.

hahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Eddie G]

hahahahahahahahahaha

Yeah can't blame you there. xD

 

[GoadMoose]

Is there a thread where people can suggest the stage list they would want to use? And also, @ OS (or anyone else I guess): Why is Corneria banned from Brawl?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Is there a thread where people can suggest the stage list they would want to use? And also, @ OS (or anyone else I guess): Why is Corneria banned from Brawl?

Fin camping.

 

[IrisKong]

is this a joke thread?

 

[Linkshot]

It's not a joke thread. Starters aren't the only third characters stages in the game.

 

[Eddie G]

It's not a joke thread. Starters aren't the only third characters stages in the game.

Noooooo **** sherlock. CPs are fine, but it's the over-dependency on CP stages from people like you who most likely suck on a neutral that have resulted in this little outburst of "let's pioneer for yet ANOTHER change in our region's stagelist instead of putting our focus on improving as players! :D", and who whine about wanting even more CP stages to choose from. There are ENOUGH TO CHOOSE FROM, especially in the Midwest compared to other regions. What the **** is the point of boo hooing about wanting more CP stages if you don't focus on getting good enough to win the first match of a set on a neutral anyway (arguably the most important match!)? Just shut up and get better at the game already. Learn your character, learn other characters if need be. You guys constantly tell us that "it's boring" isn't suitable criteria to ban a stage, well...it's also not suitable criteria to go and baww about how the stagelist is currently set up. Don't try to deny it, you KNOW that is one of the reasons why you feel prompted to stand up as pro-OS. Hypocrisy people, hypocrisy.

 

[jokey665]

I'm just gonna throw this out there as an interesting idea that nobody will likely ever actually do, but I'd like to see it happen. Host a tournament where every stage is a "starter." Wait, don't run away yet! You strike down to one from the entire list of stages in the game. This should theoretically give the single most fair stage in the game for that matchup between the two players involved in each game. For CP's you my two ideas are 1: CP from any stage in the game, but you get 5 (or some other number) of bans instead of 1, and 2: repeat the striking process, with the CPing player getting the first 4 (or some other number) strikes.

The main obstacle is that all the striking would take a long time, but I'm really interested in what stages people would end up playing on. If somebody somehow does run a tournament like this, make sure you get from the players what stages they ended up playing on, and with what characters. Data is good.

 

[Overswarm]

Noooooo **** sherlock. CPs are fine, but it's the over-dependency on CP stages from people like you who most likely suck on a neutral that have resulted in this little outburst of "let's pioneer for yet ANOTHER change in our region's stagelist instead of putting our focus on improving as players! :D", and who whine about wanting even more CP stages to choose from. There are ENOUGH TO CHOOSE FROM, especially in the Midwest compared to other regions. What the **** is the point of boo hooing about wanting more CP stages if you don't focus on getting good enough to win the first match of a set on a neutral anyway (arguably the most important match!)? Just shut up and get better at the game already. Learn your character, learn other characters if need be. You guys constantly tell us that "it's boring" isn't suitable criteria to ban a stage, well...it's also not suitable criteria to go and baww about how the stagelist is currently set up. Don't try to deny it, you KNOW that is one of the reasons why you feel prompted to stand up as pro-OS. Hypocrisy people, hypocrisy.

The best players have always used "gay strats" and crazy CPs to win. Vidjo, a peach main, CPed to Corneria with Fox in Melee. Ken got Onett banned by CPing it against Neo, and he used Fox. Not Marth, his main.

Regardless, this idea that playing on CPs makes you worse is stupid. I play on CPs all the time and I could wipe the floor with most of the people posting in this thread.

 

[Anther]

Wow so much hatred guys D=.

It's not even exploits it just the fact that these stages would be better in melee where losing a stock at 12% because of arrant DI wasn't such a big deal for the majority of matchups.

The final group has a lot that.
Distant Planet- Not that bad of a stage really, though right oriented DI can kill you if something throws you into the bulborb's mouth. I haven't had as much experience offline vs online though, so it's legit.

Green Greens - Insanely close blastlines that encourage slow pokey matches due to the frequently game changing blocks. "Game changing blocks." Certain characters are impossible to fight against on the left and right sides of the stage. This is the only stage that makes me want to pick MK just for that fact.

Luigi's Mansion - Also not that bad of a stage from every match I've played, though I could be biased because it may be one of pika's best stages.

Norfair - Not too bad of a stage, I've won because of the wall of lava appearing in the time it took me to get hit and then have it randomly spawn on the screen.

Port Town Aero Dive - I feel like things that take away stocks super early that are situationally avoidable and can result in someone gambling a stock away count as a criteria that shouldn't be tested in competitive matches.

It's just that these counterpicks do things that have flipped matches around on no foresight or possible foresight of the players, and spend more time on gambling the basics as opposed to making them better. At the moments that these stages crucially change the game, it's either something no one's looking to foresee because the chance is below 10% anyway.
There are too many skyblocks spawning saving people in green greens. TT

 

[IrisKong]

Every match should be on hyrule with a 30 min timer. lulz

 

[Judo777]

wow there are a little less than 12 pages of posts with 15 posts per page. That's 180 posts if we count the full 12 with i think 5 videos so far. That means 2.8% of the posts in this thread are actually what this thread was intended for, and that's being generous considering no one here has actually met the criteria for the contest. However this is made up for by the few people that have actually talked about what this thread is partly about. Other than that all i see is a lot of flaming.

 

[IrisKong]

wow there are a little less than 12 pages of posts with 15 posts per page. That's 180 posts if we count the full 12 with i think 5 videos so far. That means 2.8% of the posts in this thread are actually what this thread was intended for, and that's being generous considering no one here has actually met the criteria for the contest. However this is made up for by the few people that have actually talked about what this thread is partly about. Other than that all i see is a lot of flaming.

Welll...its because its a stupid idea, lol

 

[solecalibur]

Regardless, this idea that playing on CPs makes you worse is stupid. I play on CPs all the time and I could wipe the floor with most of the people posting in this thread.

We are wasting time working towards CP stages we could be better if we only played the same stage set the entire nation played , its nice we have a variety in stages but we need the nation to enter with this new stage set and I doubt that would happen

also btw Im not trying to call you out but you haven't really replyed to lain's drunken post you just stated he was drunk at 7:30am

wow there are a little less than 12 pages of posts with 15 posts per page. That's 180 posts if we count the full 12 with i think 5 videos so far. That means 2.8% of the posts in this thread are actually what this thread was intended for, and that's being generous considering no one here has actually met the criteria for the contest. However this is made up for by the few people that have actually talked about what this thread is partly about. Other than that all i see is a lot of flaming.

this was my other statement that got ignored

What if I dont have access to making a video of how freaken broken port town areo drive is

I have access to these tools but not everyone has access to these and we are leaving them in the dust

edit - is this the last post on the last page ....

 

[What's The Point]

If I can get some one to waste their friendlies time to play on these stages I'll make a video.

 

[IrisKong]

If I can get some one to waste their friendlies time to play on these stages I'll make a video.

Ill play friendlies on them with you...as long as its low tiers or mirror matches, lmao.

 

[Overswarm]

We are wasting time working towards CP stages we could be better if we only played the same stage set the entire nation played , its nice we have a variety in stages but we need the nation to enter with this new stage set and I doubt that would happen

also btw Im not trying to call you out but you haven't really replyed to lain's drunken post you just stated he was drunk at 7:30am

Are you serious? Why would I reply to a drunken post from 7:30 a.m., let ALONE one by Lain?

If you don't have the ability to make a video.... find someone who does? You have two months.

As of now, we have exactly 0 entrants. Read rules for the contest, expect an example video later.

 

[IrisKong]

OS, not to be a jerk, but this contest is really really stupid, anything that would prove the stages are broken could be taken a number of different ways as far as example videos. You could easily say "oh well certain characters can deal with it" just like alot of IC players say about the chain grab, or you could easily say "Oh well pro players wouldn't put themselves into that situation" to make a video an unreliable piece of evidence. What is the point of this? just to get people irritated? Play the broken stages in friendlys at your house. competitive play should not have stages where you can get lucky 1 hot KO's that have almost nothing to do with a players skill level. I would be surprised if anyone really did take the time to make a video for you.

 

[solecalibur]

Are you serious? Why would I reply to a drunken post from 7:30 a.m., let ALONE one by Lain?

If you don't have the ability to make a video.... find someone who does? You have two months.

As of now, we have exactly 0 entrants. Read rules for the contest, expect an example video later.

because you have before and something was stopping you this time and people were mentioning

I like how Overswarm is too full of himself to read the post and actually make a reasonable comment about it.
Even though Lain = drunk, he makes way more sense than anything you ever post OS

I guess you should also ad in the OP of both topics why these stages would be better then the other half of the nation because there are a lot of questions concerning that

 

[Sucumbio]

I don't even play competitive brawl but I see their point, OS. They don't want a circuit designer forcing an issue that can jeopardize the standings on a national level. Maybe this sort of thing is better suited for side events, while the main event focuses on more traditional brawl. If anything, the stage list should be dummed down to match the smallest list regions have to offer (NE? or MID-ATL? I can't remember). Then, when your region is so darn good that other regions can't hang, -they'll- start begging for CPs and your area will already be well versed. It's like, you've all already done your extra credit cause it was the harder part of the assignment, and the reward was great, but now it's time to do the mundane work, whose payoff isn't necessarily that great, but that is required. *runs away now*

 

[Overswarm]

Here's the thing:

I don't care about other regions.

You think every tournament is a training ground for a national? Not a chance. The majority of people at tournaments I attend like these stages. Some of them wouldn't go if they weren't there because they LOVE the stages. Custom stages are frequently CPed even! When Xisin made his circuit event only have 5 starters, I thought people would complain about 2/5ths of the starters being customs. They didn't. They would strike TO the customs.

Not everyone is so brain-dead that they think playing on smashville 24/7 will make them a better player. Most of our players recognize how good it is to always win on your CP. Sai, a Diddy main here that is improving tourney after tourney, beat Kel on Pictochat, Sai's CP. He picked it because it gave him plenty of room for bananas and the hazards, when used properly, helped make up for Diddy's lack of kill power. When the pressure was on, Sai could run away until a transformation that often let him get his bananas back. It was a close match, but Sai won that game. It wasn't random; it was a very specific choice.

Why is that bad? He chose a stage that helps him. You'd rather him CP to battlefield, where the stage doesn't really help him naturally? What for?

The MW will always have the greatest character diversity in addition to the largest number of stages available; this is not a coincidence. When you lower the amount of stages available for play, you reduce character viability; look at all the stages in Brawl and you'll find that the majority of G&W's best stages are banned. Many of them rightfully so, but that is irrelevant; G&W is a worse character overall because of this. On the flipside, characters like ICs, Diddy, Falco, and other characters that love flat/plat stages get better since we use those stages as starters and they are all exactly the same.

Knowing this, I can never say "I'm going to ban this stage because I don't like it". I have to see a reason for the sake of balance, and someone saying "that's dumb" or "that's not competitive" doesn't even make me flinch. You gotta have proof.

OS, not to be a jerk, but this contest is really really stupid, anything that would prove the stages are broken could be taken a number of different ways as far as example videos. You could easily say "oh well certain characters can deal with it" just like alot of IC players say about the chain grab, or you could easily say "Oh well pro players wouldn't put themselves into that situation" to make a video an unreliable piece of evidence. What is the point of this? just to get people irritated? Play the broken stages in friendlys at your house. competitive play should not have stages where you can get lucky 1 hot KO's that have almost nothing to do with a players skill level. I would be surprised if anyone really did take the time to make a video for you.

If you can make a video that is so easily countered, chances are the stage is okay.

You think you can't make a video showing why Hyrule Temple should be banned?

How about World 1-1 or 1-2?

75m?

Because it'd be pretty easy.

These stages are harder because they are borderline. I normally wait until I see evidence that they should be banned in tournament, but I figured I'd host a contest to see if anyone would be willing to step up to the plate. But, as always, its just a bunch of MI players *****ing.

 

[IrisKong]

Here's the thing:

I don't care about other regions.

The MW will always have the greatest character diversity in addition to the largest number of stages available; this is not a coincidence. When you lower the amount of stages available for play, you reduce character viability; look at all the stages in Brawl and you'll find that the majority of G&W's best stages are banned. Many of them rightfully so, but that is irrelevant; G&W is a worse character overall because of this. On the flipside, characters like ICs, Diddy, Falco, and other characters that love flat/plat stages get better since we use those stages as starters and they are all exactly the same.

Knowing this, I can never say "I'm going to ban this stage because I don't like it". I have to see a reason for the sake of balance, and someone saying "that's dumb" or "that's not competitive" doesn't even make me flinch. You gotta have proof.



If you can make a video that is so easily countered, chances are the stage is okay.

You think you can't make a video showing why Hyrule Temple should be banned?

How about World 1-1 or 1-2?

75m?

Because it'd be pretty easy.

These stages are harder because they are borderline. I normally wait until I see evidence that they should be banned in tournament, but I figured I'd host a contest to see if anyone would be willing to step up to the plate. But, as always, its just a bunch of MI players *****ing.

Well most of the MI people have just decided to stop coming to your events, which sucks because the brawl scene is small as it is, but everyone gets a choice.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

The MW will always have the greatest character diversity

I'm curious as to whether or not this is true at the moment, and if so then by how much.

I call upon the powers of Ankoku!

 

[Zankoku]

Personally I don't quite understand why MI is getting worked up. Back a year ago when Overswarm headed up the ONLY CIRCUIT and imposed his rules and organization, his statement of "if you don't like it then set up your own tournament/circuit" seemed like an idle troll of "you've got no choice 'cause I'm the only one who can do this." Now? There's non-circuit tournaments and three different circuits in the same general area (Ohio Circuit, MWC-E, MWC-C).

Overswarm's cute little contest seems pretty applicable to people who actually go to his circuit events and want to dispute a stage. I don't think it's even close to worth the effort if you don't plan on attending his stuff anyway, though. I mean, come on. Two NES games for your Wii? That's, what, $10? Do you feel it's worth $10 to play on silly stages that you disagree with for a circuit that you don't want to have any part in in the first place?

Stop complaining, MI. Go to the tournament in Illinois this Saturday.

@SP: Midwest has by far the most character diversity if you go by Linkshot's "definition" of counterpick stages being a "third character," rofl. Otherwise, just eyeballing the results tells me we're only somewhat better off than MD/VA and about the equal with Southwest.

 

[lain]

I don't care about other regions.

Good ****.

You think every tournament is a training ground for a national?

I guess I was just assuming that tournies were run so people could get better and have fun, guess not.

The majority of people at tournaments I attend like these stages.

That is not true at all. When I went down to Ohio like 4-5 times after you said they all LOVE cp's and custom stages, everyone basically told me that you're an idiot and wish that they could run it my way.

Custom stages are frequently CPed even!

By MK users like you and Kel. I rarely saw anyone pick customs except Tyr, who blatantly hates the custom stages. I saw Kel get 2-stocked first game by Nope, cp to Equity, THREE STOCK NOPE, and then proceed to get cp'd to Battlefield and 2 stocked again....

Most of our players recognize how good it is to always win on your CP. Sai, a Diddy main here that is improving tourney after tourney, beat Kel on Pictochat, Sai's CP. He picked it because it gave him plenty of room for bananas and the hazards, when used properly, helped make up for Diddy's lack of kill power. When the pressure was on, Sai could run away until a transformation that often let him get his bananas back. It was a close match, but Sai won that game. It wasn't random; it was a very specific choice.

You fail to point out that Sai then went on to lose 3rd game. I'm guessing Kel picked either a custom, Rainbow, or Norfair. Whoopdee freakin doo he won on his cp, yes it's important to win on your cp and if you can pick a stage that has a good advantage for you then do it, BUT, Sai is never gonna get any better always losing on neutrals, cp'ing **** like Pictochat and winning cause Kel jumped into the arrows or something. That's not skill, that's not an even battlefield, and no one learned a **** thing.

Why is that bad? He chose a stage that helps him. You'd rather him CP to battlefield, where the stage doesn't really help him naturally? What for?

Now see here's a conundrum. If he cp's to Smashville (diddy's best neutral assuming fd was banned) and wins, awesome. He outsmarted his opponent and beat him using skill. However, his MK opponent could just be homo and pick Rainbow, Norfair, Brinstar, etc. 3rd game and have a gay advantage to winning that set.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with 3rd game, your cp, you choose the gayest thing possible for yourself, go ahead. But I want it to be more then just whoever wins the first game gets to cp Green Greens on the other person and auto-win. It should be like every other region: testing each other's skill, proving your truly better then the other person, and doing it all on neutrals because it's most even that way.

The MW will always have the greatest character diversity in addition to the largest number of stages available; this is not a coincidence. When you lower the amount of stages available for play, you reduce character viability

Not true at all. MW doesn't have the greatest character diversity. The other regions have as many, if not more "other characters" then we do.

But, as always, its just a bunch of MI players *****ing.

I find it weird how the top 3 in the MW (along with everyone else) are *****ing about your ******** decisions, and you just sweep it aside.

You haven't traveled to ****, you've beaten no one, you haven't progressed for the last year and a half, no one likes you, yet you still find it necessary to always say that I'm not good, I dodge M2K, and the simple statement of "it's lain".

I'm just completely sick of you, that's all.

I think it's best you leave.

 

[Player-1]

guys.stop this now.it's very clear to me now.that no one will win this contest.OS still thinks MK should be banned, I mean, how thick can u get?


@lain, RC is da best 4 diddy <3

 

[Eddie G]

Yeah...seems to me like it's just a hidden agenda to further build on his forever-adamant MK case if anything. I can't comprehend why he still wants to stick to his case. It won't help players improve in the long run, it really won't.

 

[Overswarm]

Er... I don't think I mentioned MK here.

Besides, I picked him up and now I main him. Other people's problem now, I just benefit from the character.

 

[bobson]

You give too much credit to Brawl's sub-par level of depth compared to other games/activities, my friend.

Yeah, maybe I do, what with you ****ers banning all of it.

Why should they have to if they're good enough on neutrals to the point that they'll absolutely wreck all of us in games 1 and 3 anyway (assuming we even make it to a game 3)?

Read above. Because the best players we have are from MI, and MI for the most part seems to be adamant on players improving through the use of neutrals (don't needlessly nitpick me for using the word). They (MI's best) come over and wreck everyone except M2K nearly every visit, silly CPs or not.

This only serves to further prove my point that those stages are not broken. The better players still win. Competition still functions. If the stages were broken, these things would not happen.

So my question to you is...WHY shouldn't we put aside all of this "I want to be a pioneer for change" bull**** and focus on improving as players on neutrals first and foremost? The most important game of a set is played on them, and it is on those stages that we get wrecked by MI, and by the other regions who practice the same ideology about stages, the hardest on. It's ok to get a hang of CP stages, but from the lot of you who oppose Lain's argument, it seems as if your CP stage dependency has been escalated to a rather pathetic degree; almost as if you EXPECT yourselves to lose the first game on a neutral. The remedy to that has already been revealed. O.~

This is completely irrelevant. If the stages are not broken, they should not be banned. Period. I couldn't give two tugs of a dead dog's **** about whether banning everything would make us "more skilled" or not. Stages that are not proven broken should not be banned. If the rest of the nation thinks otherwise, then **** 'em; they can enjoy their inherently weaker game.

 

[Eddie G]

Er... I don't think I mentioned MK here.

Spare me. It obvious what you're trying to accomplish. Of course you'd never admit it up front.

Besides, I picked him up and now I main him. Other people's problem now, I just benefit from the character.

Supposedly.

 

[lain]

How is playing your balls terrible MK other people's problems? Your MK is so bad and predictable, everyone I talk to would rather play your MK then your ROB.

 

[Overswarm]

It's like I've gotten so far under your skin I don't have to even try anymore. All you have to do is read my name and its like I was trolling you 24/7, even if I'm not.

This pleases me. ^_^



Anyway, I'm gonna work on a video this weekend if I have time so the people wanting to participate in the contest have an example video. I'll probably do something easy, like Hyrule Temple or 75m.

 

[Eddie G]

Yeah...dude I took your MK to last stock with Peach, back when I wasn't as good with her. I wonder what the scenario would be this time around.

And the typical troll routine is getting old, seriously. Are you really that bored? Go DO something if you are in need of entertainment, instead of sitting on your *** laughing at your worn-out snooty comebacks behind the comfort of your computer screen. Please for the love of all that is vag take my advice, OS.

 

[IrisKong]

lmao, lain your gonna get banned... everyone may agree with you, but posting it on the boards is gonna end up pissing of the mods.