Peaches...it is imperative that we perfect this!

[Eddie G]

The Power Shield Cancel (PSC)

This will eliminate shielddrop lag and allow us to utilize a quick attack OoS and be able to beat MK's Tornado (among other things) when on the ground instead of trying to avoid it all the time. This is a huge overhaul for a lot of other characters as well, but very, very important for this character honestly. Figure out a comfortable control method if you already use Y to jump and learn this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjFQtAubet4

 

[z00ted]

Metaknight matchup may go down to 40:60

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?!?!

 

[Smoom77]

My phone won't load te video, but does it tell us how many frames we have to punish after nado?

 

[Dark.Pch]

This is good. I'm gonna use this. I'm good at timing power shields cause I just do that float hop Peach has (screw it, I'm calling it the persudo wave dash.) Like you just stop in place out of a dash/run. I use that to appoach falco/campers. So now I'll add that this with it.

I'm trying to figure out how much time we have before we would get hit with Nado. I'm looking through all the characters aggatcks that hit him out of it. I have to find the slowiest attack that did it and how many frames that was. Then I have to subtract all of Peach quick options. This can show me what attacks other than jab can hit him.

 

[Eddie G]

My phone won't load te video, but does it tell us how many frames we have to punish after nado?

You actually punish him during the nado. Peach and some other characters are able to punish in the middle of it with jab because of it being on frame 2, while there are also some others like Olimar who can still punish despite his jab being on frame 4.

All I know for sure is that the nado has smaller openings during the start and the gaps open up to like 8-10 frame windows as the move comes to an end. This is why Peach is able to creep in during the beginning of his nado, because her jab is able to penetrate that small frame opening.

 

[Smoom77]

Lol sorry. I didn't mean after nado.

I was just thinking of the possiblity of a ground float nair to punish instead of jab. How fast could we do that?

 

[Eddie G]

Lol sorry. I didn't mean after nado.

I was just thinking of the possiblity of a ground float nair to punish instead of jab. How fast could we do that?

I was actually thinking the same. Does anyone have any definite frame data on that entire combination of inputs if done at the fastest speed possible?

My only concern with that is that while it is a very fast option, Peach does technically register a float input which would place her in an "aerial" position, and would possibly allow the tornado to suck her in anyway. If that is not the case, then awesome; but we should all look into it and get a definite answer.

 

[Smoom77]

You took the words right out of my fingers on the keyboard.

 

[culexus・wau]

I'm not gonna lie

this is pretty sweet lol.

I wonder... meh..

nah no way that would work. :>

but yeah I had the same idea dark hard about G-floating out of this lol

ircc you have to add jump frames + nair

I forget peach's jump frames but nair is 2 on the back and 3 in the front I think.

brb frame data thread

Jump airborne on frame: 6

Nair
Duration: 49
Hits on Frame: 3
Strong Hitbox Duration: 3-6 (4)
Weak Hitbox Duration: 7-23 (17)
Aerial Cooldown: 26
Landing Lag: 11
Autocancels on Frame: 36

the nair will come out frame 9 from jump probaaaaaaaaably too slow

 

[Smoom77]

But floating cancels jump lag I believe.

 

[¿Qué?]

Really interesting. Not only for Meta, but it could end up ****** the whole cast.

 

[culexus・wau]

But floating cancels jump lag I believe.

really?

by how much?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Her float does not cancel jump Lag. You can jump and then tap A soon after, and Peach will Jump to a nair. You not even seeing her in her airborn jump animation. When you ground float it is the same thing. When you jump, Peach neals down before she jumps. At this point you can't do any command at all. Untill that nealing animation ends. Once that is done, thats when you can do something. Thus Nair from the ground airborn. You can just easly cancel her airborn animation with any air attack. You won't even see it. if you frame perfect.

For that reason, this is why you can jump cancel throw items. The neal animation youcan throw items. Thats the only was to cancel it. So I can run, and jump then quicky toss the item in the other direction. Peach will stop in place and toss it the other way. I can jump cancel throw in any direction. At any time.

When you float out of shield, its nearly the same thing. It might be a frame or 2 slowcause you have to float Firt then Nair. You can't float within an air attack. So you have to get the float out first then Nair. if you are frame prefect, it might be like 2 frames max slower then if you was to jump out of shield to a Nair.

 

[_Keno_]

This has been around since melee 06, it is just so difficult to time in melee that it is unrealistic to use.

I had forgotten about it completely.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

But floating cancels jump lag I believe.

But you have to Jump in the first place to set up a Float


Someone would have to check if you could Ground Float Nair, the best you're looking at is 8 frames and that's if you get it perfect

IIRC the video shows Wolf jumping and Shining MK's Nado but Shine has invincbility frames sooooooo

It would be good if she could use Nair because most MK's will probably angle their Tornado to hit around character's heads to prevent them from Jabbing them

 

[Smoom77]

Lol I didn't know if it's cancels lag. I just thought it sounded right

 

[MechaWave]

I guess it's that time of the month, Peaches.

 

[_Keno_]

LEARN THIS NOW OR I"LL PERIOD ON EVERYTHING YOU LOVE

 

[Nicole]

Metaknight matchup may go down to 40:60

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?!?!

Metaknight matchup is already 40:60

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?!?!



cool stuff, this PSC, but i'll probably never get it down entirely. i'll be working on it though.

 

[Razmakazi]

my metaknight is gonna get ridiculous now!

but like w/ peach it'd be cool coz psc ftilt oos is gonna be our 2nd faster option now since for any aerial we already have to use 6 frames to jump.

basically, 13 dmg oos 6 frame ground move for the ****.

fun stuff.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Shield dashing is going to be happening a lot more often. I swear it is.

 

[z00ted]

this isn't as great as I thought it was :/

Metaknight still has all the options in the world

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Good luck finding the situations to powershield and expect it too.

 

[¿Qué?]

We can bait nado by ducking and pretending to pull turnips to make him approach with Nado...

Just a suggestion. I still think that this AT is damn useful. OoS is already an awesome part of Peach's meta game, and this will make it 10x better.

 

[Nicole]

this isn't as great as I thought it was :/

Metaknight still has all the options in the world

yeah this really isn't a groundbreaking discovery. esp. against MK. powershielding nado is no walk in the park, mk doesn't have to just mindlessly approach with it. and he shouldnt use it when peach is on the ground anyways - peach already has many options for dealing with it when she's on the ground. you can't ps in the air.

i will be learning this as best i can, but i'm going to use it against some other chars before i worry about mk. off the top of my head i can see it being good against falco's close game.

 

[¿Qué?]

off the top of my head i can see it being good against falco's close game.

THISSS

;o!!

 

[hiROI]

This looks more useful in other match ups than MK. Like Nicole said, this is great against Falco and maybe Snake when he is tilting our shield?

But just imagine how good this is for MK. I'm scared to be in a mile radius with him now :/

 

[culexus・wau]

if you can powershield marth fair/snake tilts/luc fsmash/DDD ftilt you can probably hit them harder with PSC.

:>

just saying

seeing as I can powershield 2 out of 4 of those on reaction :>

 

[hotgarbage]

You actually punish him during the nado. Peach and some other characters are able to punish in the middle of it with jab because of it being on frame 2, while there are also some others like Olimar who can still punish despite his jab being on frame 4.

It's not guaranteed though. MK's nado's hitboxes "refresh" at set intervals; if you powershield just before a refresh you'll get hit when you drop shield but if you drop shield after a refresh you'll have a (sometimes sizable) opening.

All I know for sure is that the nado has smaller openings during the start and the gaps open up to like 8-10 frame windows as the move comes to an end. This is why Peach is able to creep in during the beginning of his nado, because her jab is able to penetrate that small frame opening.

This is correct, but from what I've seen so far this only applies to non-rising nado. Out of curiosity where did you get the frame info? Asking as I was contemplating making a thread detailing this sort of thing but I wouldn't want to if all of this is old news .

Jump airborne on frame: 6

Nair
Duration: 49
Hits on Frame: 3
Strong Hitbox Duration: 3-6 (4)
Weak Hitbox Duration: 7-23 (17)
Aerial Cooldown: 26
Landing Lag: 11
Autocancels on Frame: 36

the nair will come out frame 9 from jump probaaaaaaaaably too slow

You're airborne on frame 6, which means that you can perform an air action on that frame. So it would come out on frame 8 earliest. But yeah, still too slow. It could work late-nado but it'd be risky.

But floating cancels jump lag I believe.

I wish

EDIT:
Forgot to mention. That thread isn't of much use if you want to use learn how to use powershielding correctly. This post however is very useful, check it out!

 

[¿Qué?]

omgsanislurkin'.

!!

 

[Mr.-0]

This has been debunked to really just be attacking out of the first frame possible out of a powershield. Idk if he's updated it yet, but GIMR posted it in the tier list discussion.

 

[Xyless]

It'd also help MK as well. *gasp*

 

[Razmakazi]

this is ****. this definitely increases the options available when anything hits our powershield. don't think just nado, think about the shield advantage falco usually gets when he lasers your shield or when anything hits your shield. this is a very interesting find.

 

[Xyless]

This has been debunked to really just be attacking out of the first frame possible out of a powershield. Idk if he's updated it yet, but GIMR posted it in the tier list discussion.

It isn't technically a tech, but the important thing about it is, it shows how major that frame advantage can be to a point where people hyped something so simple and yet so important.

 

[Meru.]

Good luck finding the situations to powershield and expect it too.

This. This AT is imo very overrated. It's good and handy, but not imperative and it also does not cure any diseases.

 

[culexus・wau]

Predicting a move

Timing Powershields

and then reacting to the tink sound to buffer something

isn't really that hard orz.

if people could react to the parry in 3S and buffer at 236236P or 360P etc we can react to our powershield and hit 1 button while MAYBE holding the stick in some direction.

:|

 

[Razmakazi]

yeah flame, anuar was saying it's like parrying but easier haha.

 

[Eddie G]

This. This AT is imo very overrated. It's good and handy, but not imperative and it also does not cure any diseases.

Not the mindset to have imo.

 

[MechaWave]

This. This AT is imo very overrated. It's good and handy, but not imperative and it also does not cure any diseases.

Very nice post there. :33

 

[Jebril]

You can toad *****nado in the air and on the ground.