Pessimism and Brawl

[NJzFinest]

choknater wins?

 

[da K.I.D.]

i really like this game better than melee, for 3 reasons:
1 the amount of control i have, in melee if you were to get stomped by ganon, at 60 damage, you sat there, in the air for a good second and a half, just contemplating, thinking about how exactly ganon wanted to finish you. in melee, i hated flailing helplessly knowing that i wouldnt be able to get out of the next 4 hits. ex, i play falco, and im playing against marth, the beginning of everystock is me getting up thrown to at least 2 up tilt, no amount of DI could get you out of that, if the marth knew what he was doing, but in brawl, when you hit someone, they can always airdodge at anytime, which makes it more fun to me, because getting consecutive hits relys much more on following up your attacks correctly and reading your opponents moves. that to me is more enjoyable.

2. Camping. Most of you hate it, I love it! why? its not because i do it, i play sonic, what can i camp with? i love camping, because of the challenge. its a mental thing, ppl camp me to get me off my game so i get reckless and fall into stupid mess. but i like the challenge of getting through the barrage of projectiles. and breaking through to my opponent. that kind of thing is the proof of my skill, and even if i lose to the camping, my game still impresses ppl, and i still have fun playing the game

3. Brawl has Sonic The Hedgehog in it, herrgo, it is the better game

its funny cause i can see why someppl dont like brawl, but i like for the same reasons that most dont

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Elitism: consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group.

The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment or authority by virtue of their superiority, as in skills.

Elitist: Someone who is elite who favors elites and has little time for those who are not elite. Someone who might try to tell you what to think, or that people will agree with simply because it was that person who said it.

Glad to have defined it, now stop flaming.

That being said, I do not have contempt for the very best players of this game, but people generally DO tend to follow them in whatever they say or do.

 

[NJzFinest]

i really like this game better than melee, for 3 reasons:
1 the amount of control i have, in melee if you were to get stomped by ganon, at 60 damage, you sat there, in the air for a good second and a half, just contemplating, thinking about how exactly ganon wanted to finish you. in melee, i hated flailing helplessly knowing that i wouldnt be able to get out of the next 4 hits. ex, i play falco, and im playing against marth, the beginning of everystock is me getting up thrown to at least 2 up tilt, no amount of DI could get you out of that, if the marth knew what he was doing, but in brawl, when you hit someone, they can always airdodge at anytime, which makes it more fun to me, because getting consecutive hits relys much more on following up your attacks correctly and reading your opponents moves. that to me is more enjoyable.

2. Camping. Most of you hate it, I love it! why? its not because i do it, i play sonic, what can i camp with? i love camping, because of the challenge. its a mental thing, ppl camp me to get me off my game so i get reckless and fall into stupid mess. but i like the challenge of getting through the barrage of projectiles. and breaking through to my opponent. that kind of thing is the proof of my skill, and even if i lose to the camping, my game still impresses ppl, and i still have fun playing the game

3. Brawl has Sonic The Hedgehog in it, herrgo, it is the better game

its funny cause i can see why someppl dont like brawl, but i like for the same reasons that most dont

Get out... now.

 

[da K.I.D.]

LOL!!

10ROFLMAO's

 

[BEES]

If the game had L-canceling everything would be fine.

Then it wouldn't be a tremendous shieldgrab festival.

 

[Vulcan55]

Elitism: consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group.

The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment or authority by virtue of their superiority, as in skills.

Elitist: Someone who is elite who favors elites and has little time for those who are not elite. Someone who might try to tell you what to think, or that people will agree with simply because it was that person who said it.

Glad to have defined it, now stop flaming.

That being said, I do not have contempt for the very best players of this game, but people generally DO tend to follow them in whatever they say or do.

The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment or authority by virtue of their superiority =/= the people who are best at the game.

****ing noobs.

MG you guys are so funny. At the beginning when Brawl just came out there was no where near as much Brawl bashing as there is now.

We still had hope, and were all intised by the "new game smell".

Over time it just became the cool thing to do because the "pros" were doing it.

Wow. You're right. Because m2k doesn't like Brawl, neither do I. It's totally not the extremely shallow game-play, character "diversity", or the insane noob-friendliness.

Why cant you guys just except that people do like Brawl. Do you miss melee so much that you have come into the brawl threads and try destroy any possibilities of a Brawl community.

OMG NO, THARS NO WAI SUM1 KUD LIEK BAWRL.
We don't "miss" Melee, ******, that would assume it is gone. Well here's a newsflash, it's not.
Maybe if you ventured outside of General Brawl for once, you'd see the Melee community is thriving. Even many of "your kind" are switching back to Melee because they realize it is the superior game. And about us trying to "destroy the possibilty of a Brawl community"? Please.

Every week or so there is a new thread about how much brawl sucks just being said in a different way.

Maybe because it does suck? Have you ever ventured to believe that they're right?

If brawl sucks so bad then leave go and try to rebuild melee.

Wow, you idiot. Because Melee is dead and no one is playing it, therefore, we have to "rebuild" it because it is absolutely, 100% dead.

This really shows how little you know about Melee, and therefore, SHOULD NOT BE ARGUING AGAINST IT.

You guys dont leave because you know that this is the future.

WOW. no ****ing ****.
Hey guys, we got a real Sherlock here.
Give this guy a ****ing medal.

Your just mad because melee was your game that you dominated at. Then this new game comes out and you find that those years of mastering melee have gone to ****. You have too start over and thats why you guys are pessimistic about brawl.

Right. Because we have to start over.
NONE OF US WANT TO, AND WE DON'T HAVE TO.
Our Melee practice has not gone to waste. Because, again, IT'S NOT ****ING DEAD. I SWEAR IF ONE MORE BRAWL NOOB POSTS ASSUMING THEY KNOW **** AT ALL ABOUT ANYTHING RELATED TO MELEE, WHEN THEY ACTUALLY DON'T...

Learn to format. Learn to spell. Learn facts before you argue using fake ones.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Melee is dead. Brawl is the new hotness. Get over it.

Did I do it right?

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I like Brawl better because it's more suited to my playing style, favours hit-and run tactics, and has AAA combos that actually work.

There, I said it for the ten billionth time.

OLOLOLOLOL.

 

[NJzFinest]

Melee is dead. Brawl is the new hotness. Get over it.

Did I do it right?

...you didn't leave...

 

[i.E.]

everyone chill out some.

This thread should be locked, because it turned into what Falcon V 1.0 didn't want it to turn into: A Melee vs. Brawl debate.

/threadshouldbeclosed

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

If you say the community was NOT influenced by "key players" voicing their biased distaste of brawl, you're blind.

If you think defensive options should never be as good as offensive options, the only game you've ever seen competitively was melee.

This is why smash wasn't in evo till it was, and this is why the people's opinions here were ignored about brawl rule issues.

Nothing will fix the community now, this bull**** continuing for this long has ruined any hope.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Hey guys, stop mentioning Why Melee is good every time you want to rag on Brawl. Last warning.

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

And to answer the threads question: People are still finding things in 15 year old games, the metagame will continue to evolve as long as players keep playing.

Basically: A game hits it's peak when people give up on it. If players continue to give up on brawl because it's a very different game and their "ideal" gameplay situations will never be reached. Then it is dead.


Which is why opinions (no matter who's), and threads about anything but expansion of the game and it's players abilities, are pointless.


negativity breeds negativity, which is exactly what some people want in this situation as it seems.

 

[ElWray]

I apologize if I came off as arrogant or like I new everything in my previous post. I didn't mean to rub anyone the wrong way. No Homo.

I want to have a mature discussion in this thread over the pessimism in brawl. My problem is that I cant figure why if Brawl sucks sooo bad then why is the community as big as it is and why all the melee lovers want to come in this section and bash brawl like there's no tomorrow.

I feel that if all of these people left or not necessarily all but just the majority would leave then brawl could really move forward and reach its true potential.

Drunken Dragon got it right. I don't want you guys to stop playing melee just stop being so negative and leave us alone with our " bad" game.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I'm actually beyond the point of caring. As far as I'm concerned, Melee no longer exists as it is an old game.

Brawl is Brawl. It will be as as competitive as Brawl is. I want to play Brawl as do quite a few of us.

Besides, it's 2008. There are SO many good *potentially competitive* fighting games coming out soon or being announced at this time. BlazBlue, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, Melty Blood: Actress Again, Daemon Bride, Arcana Heart 2, Street Fighter IV, Monster, Akatsuki Ausf.Achse and more. Rather than hang around making it difficult for Brawl players to attempt to make their game into something worthwhile, you could always bandwagon jump to one of these more traditional fighters.

(I am personally looking forward to Blazblue, Monster, MB:AA and Daemon Bride)

 

[Judo Chop Action Super Buddha]

I can't wait for BlazBlue myself, it and LittleBigPlanet are the only reasons I'm buying a PS3 instead of a 360 (need one of them for RE5/FFXIII). Even though I won't get to play Fable 2, I'm pretty sure it's going to come out on PC anyway.

 

[Yuna]

OMG you guys are so funny. At the beginning when Brawl just came out there was no where near as much

Brawl bashing as there is now.

I'm sorry, were you here? There was. People hated it.

But back then, optimism was alive and well. So many Competitive players said "Wait and see" and "It'll be good, it just has to be!" and "It's too early!" and "Look, we discovered these nifty things!".

7+ months later, everything I said about Brawl when it was first released is largely still true. And many more have discovered its shallowness.

If you say the community was NOT influenced by "key players" voicing their biased distaste of brawl, you're blind.[/quote.]
As opposed to people loving the game because of a group mentality? Dislike is obviously influenced by bias while like is obviously totally objective?

If you think defensive options should never be as good as offensive options, the only game you've ever seen competitively was melee.

The problem is that offensive has been curbstomp into almost nothing.

This is why smash wasn't in evo till it was, and this is why the people's opinions here were ignored about brawl rule issues.

That is not why Smash wasn't in Evo 'til 2007 (Melee, BTW). Melee plays like any 2D fighter where you can pressure and do mixup. Why the well would EVO magically favour Brawl over Melee when Melee is infinitely closer to their fighters than Brawl?

People who just assume stuff and then tout their theories around as fact are pathetic. Smash wasn't in EVO because of issues with Nintendo, not the community.

Nothing will fix the community now, this bull**** continuing for this long has ruined any hope.

Brawl gets released, it divides the community. Many people quit, others play it begrudgingly.

Obviously, it must be the community that is at fault. Those *******s who couldn't just "adapt" and keep their mouths shut. I mean, it couldn't possibly be the game's fault, right? The Soul Calibur community is objective enough realize that SCIII was such a ****ty game it killed the Competitive community. They didn't blame the community, they blamed the game.

Blind fanboys who will defend Brawl at any costs are just so full of lulz they could keep 4Chan alive on their own for months.

 

[Sliq]

1 the amount of control i have, in melee if you were to get stomped by ganon, at 60 damage, you sat there, in the air for a good second and a half, just contemplating, thinking about how exactly ganon wanted to finish you.

Don't get hit? Seriously, if you get hit by a GANON DAIR, you deserve the follow up, because you were being ********.

That's the thing about Melee; you had a lot of options, and getting hit was unacceptable just because of the massive amount of options at your disposal. Dash dancing, wave dashing, wave landing. You use all of these things to maneuver yourself in a position to avoid damage but hit your opponent.

In Brawl, you space and spam broken.

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

The problem is that offensive has been curbstomp into almost nothing.

No, you just have to think about what your doing because the ratio of safe vs unsafe moves literally flipped. If what you said was true, no character without a projectile could win, EVERY block would be punished, and there would be no such thing as safe ranges for moves. The opposite is true. Is there even frame data for hit and block stun yet? because even with all the whining they are both there, and should be considered fundamental knowledge. Shallow is a state of mind, fighting games are flexible and changing. Why do you think people still play ST to this day? It's no more "complicated" than anything out now or since. because the meta game changes due to the amount of time dedicated by good players, and said dedicated players shunned their close minded ideals about the game and mastered things to better the metagame. Key word: dedicated, if you give up playing then your just taking away you contribution to the meta. Enough people do it, and the game dies, ignorance wins.

That is not why Smash wasn't in Evo 'til 2007 (Melee, BTW). Melee plays like any 2D fighter where you can pressure and do mixup. Why the well would EVO magically favour Brawl over Melee when Melee is infinitely closer to their fighters than Brawl?

People who just assume stuff and then tout their theories around as fact are pathetic. Smash wasn't in EVO because of issues with Nintendo, not the community..

1. I was referring to the fact it took them till 2006 to give a **** and have talks about having the game period, NOT Nintendo caring about negative publicity. Cause it was played competitively for how long before that?

2. Did you think that rash generalization of "2D fighters" was really gonna fly? Smash plays nothing like any other 2D fighter, period. Why do you think there were 4 different "2D fighters" at evo this year? And no, no other game there is "pressure-mixup-guess-win". If you guess in a fighting game you deserve to lose.

3. Not only that, but "pressure into mixup" the only game with remotely close to as offense oriented gameplay as melee would be MVC2, and that's only if you're running ONE TEAM (That would be MSP or maybe a team with spiral). Most every other fighter there has VERY STRONG defensive options.
MVC2: there are teams played strictly for their turtling tactics. (storm, sent etc) and lots of abuseable assists to follow suit.
CVS2: Roll cancel, look it up.
ST: Have you ever seen a good sagat or shoto in ST!? youtube please.
Tekken: Back dash cancel and generally being defensive as hell in nature period, whiffing makes you die.

Do you play any of those games?

4. Take your own advice about assuming things.

5. bold letters... wahoo!

Brawl gets released, it divides the community. Many people quit, others play it begrudgingly.

Obviously, it must be the community that is at fault. Those *******s who couldn't just "adapt" and keep their mouths shut. I mean, it couldn't possibly be the game's fault, right? The Soul Calibur community is objective enough realize that SCIII was such a ****ty game it killed the Competitive community. They didn't blame the community, they blamed the game.

SC3 was ****ed due to ONE thing, VC. The community blamed the game and DIED before the arcade release which was updated fixing VC and some balance issues. It was entirely a playable and competitive game. So what happened? Ohh.. right.. negative whiners who sat there day in and day out *****ing about the game which had an issue that literally DID make the game unplayable because 3 characters could do more guaranteed damage than ever possible in the series from throws. (which you have to GUESS to break, unlike tekken or VF)

So, you're right there. The game failed because the community whined/naysayed and gave up. Ignorance wins.

Blind fanboys who will defend Brawl at any costs are just so full of lulz they could keep 4Chan alive on their own for months.

The kettle is not black.Try saying that when you're not spamming a forum about why you hate things. I love melee, and I love brawl, I PLAY **** near everything and don't make generalizations about game I don't play ( like uhh.. super monkey ball, or barbie horse adventure). If I don't like a game I don't post about it because it's needless negativity and thusly a waste of time.

4chan is the embodiment of ignorance and close mindedness. The fact you even referenced it (in an attempt to insult me no less) is kind of ironic. Any more generalizations you'd like to make? We've got 2D fighters, me and my knowledge, offense vs defensive options... etc.


Your opinion does not matter to me. Say whatever you want to justify your own actions to yourself. Bad mouthing either brawl OR melee is only done for an ulterior motive, if you really have the time and energy to COMPLAIN about something you don't like for as much as people do, go do something productive. I mean, look at the title of this thread. lol


Sliq: "space and spam" = the number one negative spun comment about ALL/ANY fighting game.

 

[RATED]

hi, I am one of those newcomers in competitive scene in brawl release, but I played melee and I love melee! but also I love brawl! now , I like to learn from melee competitive players who knows and understand more I know that I am still learning

 

[Yuna]

1. I was referring to the fact it took them till 2006 to give a **** and have talks about having the game period, NOT Nintendo caring about negative publicity. Cause it was played competitively for how long before that?

I'm sorry, and you know this because?

EVO wanted Smash in, like, in 2004 or something. But Nintendo said "No". So they went "Fine" and dropped it 'til 2006. Again, knowing the facts before mouthing off blatant speculation as fact will save one a lot of trouble.

2. Did you think that rash generalization of "2D fighters" was really gonna fly? Smash plays nothing like any other 2D fighter, period. Why do you think there were 4 different "2D fighters" at evo this year? And no, no other game there is "pressure-mixup-guess-win". If you guess in a fighting game you deserve to lose.

I'm sorry, I said Smash is exactly like a 2D fighter when? I said that Melee is much more like a traditional 2D fighter than Brawl. It was to counteract your stupid notion that the expectant coming of Brawl was in any way connected to Melee being "accepted" by EVO.

Apparently, you might not have meant that. You might just have meant that Melee somehow alienated EVO 'til 2006... which isn't true.

3. Not only that, but "pressure into mixup" the only game with remotely close to as offense oriented gameplay as melee would be MVC2, and that's only if you're running ONE TEAM (That would be MSP or maybe a team with spiral). Most every other fighter there has VERY STRONG defensive options.

Wait, what?

Any Street Fighter game, various King of Fighters, Guilty Gear and Melty Blood.

assists to follow suit.
CVS2: Roll cancel, look it up.
ST: Have you ever seen a good sagat or shoto in ST!? youtube please.
Tekken: Back dash cancel and generally being defensive as hell in nature period, whiffing makes you die.

Tekken is 2D since when now? I specifically said 2D fighter. And just because a game has defensive options does not mean it revolves around them. No traditional fighter is as campy as Brawl is. None. Melee is tons more like a traditional fighter than Brawl is.

Stop strawmanning me with BS. Stop twisting the stuff I say into sentences not even remotely like their original meanings so you can "refute" them.

SC3 was ****ed due to ONE thing, VC. The community blamed the game and DIED before the arcade release which was updated fixing VC and some balance issues.

Yes, because, obviously, tournaments should only be played at the arcades. There are so abundantly many of those spread around the world so anyone can just go there to practice and participate in tournaments.

SCIII was broken, imbalanced, stupid and it died. The coming of the arcade version didn't fix it since tournaments no longer revolve around arcades. And the scene didn't die before the arcade version was released. It had only started dying back then.

Also, several tournaments tried banning VCs. Didn't fix the many other abundant flaws with the game.

It was entirely a playable and competitive game. So what happened? Ohh.. right.. negative whiners who sat there day in and day out *****ing about the game which had an issue that literally DID make the game unplayable because 3 characters could do more guaranteed damage than ever possible in the series from throws. (which you have to GUESS to break, unlike tekken or VF)

Ummm... why shouldn't they whine about such broken **** which imbalanced the game and made a large number of the cast unplayable?

So, you're right there. The game failed because the community whined/naysayed and gave up. Ignorance wins.

Pray tell, what was the magical solution to SCIII's many problems?

The kettle is not black.Try saying that when you're not spamming a forum about why you hate things. I love melee, and I love brawl, I PLAY **** near everything and don't make generalizations about game I don't play ( like uhh.. super monkey ball, or barbie horse adventure). If I don't like a game I don't post about it because it's needless negativity and thusly a waste of time.

Funny, I could've sworn I played SCIII Competitively 'til around the time the Swedish community died out along with the rest of the world's community. We didn't whine, we sucked it up and played. We just realized it was unplayable after a while and the scene gradually died out because no one felt like hosting tournaments.

And again you blame the community instead of the game itself. So SCIII wasn't broken at all and perfectly playable Competitively? Brawl isn't a giant step down from Melee, at all? Both games are heavily Competitive and there's nothing really wrong about either game?

And it's the community's fault if the game fails because we childishly refuse to play a game? We should support it even if we hate it? And if we hate it, we're at fault because, really, why blame the game? No, really, what this inane notion that it's wrong to dislike Brawl?

And you speak as if every other day there's a new thread about how Brawl (or SCII back in the day) sucks. No, that's not reality. That's not how it was for SCIII, that's not how it is for Brawl. We don't discuss how much it sucks. I patrol these boards and I rarely (relatively) ever see such posts.

4chan is the embodiment of ignorance and close mindedness. The fact you even referenced it (in an attempt to insult me no less) is kind of ironic. Any more generalizations you'd like to make? We've got 2D fighters, me and my knowledge, offense vs defensive options... etc.

How about you learn to comprehend plain English? The amount of rewriting you had to have done in your head to my posts to turn them into the strawmen you then attempted to refute is staggering.

Your opinion does not matter to me. Say whatever you want to justify your own actions to yourself. Bad mouthing either brawl OR melee is only done for an ulterior motive, if you really have the time and energy to COMPLAIN about something you don't like for as much as people do, go do something productive. I mean, look at the title of this thread. lol

Funny, I thought I was doing just that. I don't go around bad-mouthing Brawl on these boards. In fact, I generally don't bad mouth Brawl on Smashboards at all. I go around discussing what's relevant to the game.

Since the topic of this very thread is Brawl's viability and the general attitude people have towards it, I, you know, discussed it. I don't randomly chime in with "Brawl sucks (because...)!" in threads where such a statement would be entirely out of place.

English is my 3rd language. It's been over a decade since my English reading comprehension was at your level.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Drunken Dragon, you just got pwned. Good God man. The point of the thread was to talk about how this place has gone to ****ing hell because of how much negativity there is. Not to say "ZOMG BRAWL SUX WE MUST REVIVE MELEEEEEEE" or anything you have stuck in your head. Notice how I've stated I like Brawl, and I dont have anyone jumping on my nuts. Wanna guess why? Because I'm not making ridiculous claims like you are. You can not defend Brawl's defensive options by referencing other fighters since any good fighter has defensive options, that's not the ****ing point.


Yuna has only mentioned Melee a couple times, he isn't just stating Melee>Brawl, he's stating his dislikes for Brawl, and Melee happens to be a minor topic raised, be like him guys, m'kaaay?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Why is Brawl constantly compared to TRADITIONAL 2-D fighters? It always bugs me a little that anyone would compare Brawl, or even Smash, for that matter, to a traditional fighting game. Smash is about knock-outs, has only one simple, flat, completely empty stage, and has an extencive ledge-game. None of that is typical of fighting games.

 

[Yuna]

Why is Brawl constantly compared to TRADITIONAL 2-D fighters? It always bugs me a little that anyone would compare Brawl, or even Smash, for that matter, to a traditional fighting game. Smash is about knock-outs, has only one simple, flat, completely empty stage, and has an extencive ledge-game. None of that is typical of fighting games.

No it's not. It rarely is. This was the first time in months.

Unless you mean when we talk about banning things, in which case it's bringing up precedence among other Competitive fighting games for perspective's sake.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

No it's not. It rarely is. This was the first time in months.

Unless you mean when we talk about banning things, in which case it's bringing up precedence among other Competitive fighting games for perspective's sake.

Actually, I was talking about the use of the comparison in general, reguardless of whether it was in the context of ban debate or not. Perspective is always good though, as long as our perspective isn't distorted.

 

[Yuna]

Actually, I was talking about the use of the comparison in general, reguardless of whether it was in the context of ban debate or not. Perspective is always good though, as long as our perspective isn't distorted.

Outside of ban debates, it's barely thrown around (almost never).

 

[ShadowLink84]

*walks in*
*notices massive WOT*
*notices the final paragraph concerning reading comprehension*

*****.
This topic should have finished after that one.

 

[da K.I.D.]

im still here...

btw yuna, what was wrong with SC3 besides VCs, i played the game alot and i was very good, but i never went to tourneys because my area wasnt big on the game to begin with

 

[da K.I.D.]

Sliq: "space and spam" = the number one negative spun comment about ALL/ANY fighting game.

thats like the truthiest thing ive have ever heard, btw

 

[Yuna]

im still here...

btw yuna, what was wrong with SC3 besides VCs, i played the game alot and i was very good, but i never went to tourneys because my area wasnt big on the game to begin with

Horrible balance, especially in the American version.

 

[da K.I.D.]

well, i heard that xianghua, and sophie, and ast were all way too strong, but that alone didnt seem like it broke the game... can you elaborate pls

 

[Sliq]

Sliq: "space and spam" = the number one negative spun comment about ALL/ANY fighting game.

I said "space and spam BROKEN."

The broken in Brawl is more broken than the broken in Melee based off of the inherent gameplay changes and the limited mobility options. Not only that, it is easier to do.

Also, last time I checked, in Melee spamming was easy to get around on the grounds that you had a great deal of options to punish spam, considering you could see it coming, dash dance or wave dash to bait it, then use either of these to space your retaliation.

Even if your claim is true, that that is the number one negative spun comment, if you take these 2 things to the extreme, as extreme as you can get, than that game is worse than another with similar properties, but to less an extreme. Which game is better? The less extreme version of space and spam.

MY original post was simply pointing out my feelings towards why people are pessimistic about Brawl. Your post was to refute my pessimism, apparently. "I'm going to prove he's optimistic by trying to prove his points wrong, despite this not being a Brawl vs. Melee debate and that not making any goddamn sense!"

Seriously, address the reasons why people are dissing Brawl and don't get into a fucking debate unless it is relevant to the topic at hand.

Things I miss:

"tricking" opponents with dash dancing, wave dashing, and wave landing

punishing stupid via dash dancing, wave dashing, and wave landing

fun and interesting edge guarding (everyone pretty much makes it back from everything in Brawl)

shield pressuring (my FAVORITE thing about Melee)

combos

the speed

the character playstyles; I loved playing as Link and Jiggs in Melee, and have yet to find a character that has completely won me over in terms of playstyle. Ganon and Bowser are the closest I have come.

the stages (Dreamland 64, awesome stage)

the community (Brawl has split the community and brought in a lot of stupid and forced out a lot of cool)

These are all things that I miss. Things that add up to reasons why I'm pessimistic about Brawl. There are some things that are more enjoyable about Brawl (more moves are more useful, and characters on paper are more equal, just with ******** matchups), but I don't think this offsets the stuff I'm missing.

I'm sticking around in the hopes that I have a moment of epiphany and the game gets amazing, or some new **** is discovered.

I mean, the less I play Melee, the more fun Brawl is. But then I play Melee and remember how awesome it is.

All in all, it is a preferential thing. I'm just not a fan of slow paced fighting games. If I wanted slow paced strategy, I'd play a strategy game.

I'd pick up Guilty Gear, but its community is even smaller than Melee.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I think we should change this topic from 'Pessimism and Brawl" to "Let's get hyped up til BlazBlue comes to consoles".


Dont ask why, that game just sparks my interest. XD



But yeah, Sliq is making the kind of posts I wanted to see. He's stating what he misses and why, but he's not debating Melee vs. Brawl.


I dont expect anything, I just really ****ing hope some new amazing **** appears. Like I said, I don't expect anything, call me out on that statement and I'll **** you with a twig.

 

[AfroQT]

Blaz blue wil be amazing.
And i enjoy brawl very much (i'd consider myself decent at it as well)

Thats my post lol.

 

[Puddin]

I think it's mainly a communal thing. Someone started saying Brawl sucked competitively, and sooner or later it became "accepted" that Brawl sucked competitively. Brawl's undoubtedly less competitive than its predecessor or other "hardcore" fighters, but it's certainly not completely non-viable as a competitive game as many make it out to be; if it was, we wouldn't be seeing the higher-level players coming out on top consistently.

A. It obviously wasn't just one person.

B. The people that did say it sucked competitively are the pros everyone listens to.

 

[Yuna]

well, i heard that xianghua, and sophie, and ast were all way too strong, but that alone didnt seem like it broke the game... can you elaborate pls

Astaroth was not broken in the console version.

X and Sophie almost, on their own, broke the game in the NTSC-UC version. It was all about them and maybe 3-4 other characters. The rest of the cast was rendered pretty useless against them. Astaroth is the best character in the arcade version because he remains largely the same while everyone else got nerfed.

I think we should change this topic from 'Pessimism and Brawl" to "Let's get hyped up til BlazBlue comes to consoles".

Dont ask why, that game just sparks my interest. XD

BlazBlue's promotional boxart/cover/poster looks disturbingly a lot like hentai doujinshi-material. As in, the style it's drawn and coloured in. Most hentai (and yaoi) dating sims are drawn that way...

 

[RDK]

I want to know why the hell they're not making any more Guilty Gear games.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Astaroth was not broken in the console version.

X and Sophie almost, on their own, broke the game in the NTSC-UC version. It was all about them and maybe 3-4 other characters. The rest of the cast was rendered pretty useless against them. Astaroth is the best character in the arcade version because he remains largely the same while everyone else got nerfed.

well, like i said, i was really good, and the two guys that i played against both played sophie, and although i knew she was OP, i didnt think she broke the game, cause i could get over it, but it might just be because i played kilik... there was never a competitive scene in my town so in regards to the game, i really dont know anything except how to kill people. kind of a shame tho, i put lots of time and effort into that game, only to find out that 1. nobody else plays it, and 2. its broken either way

BlazBlue's promotional boxart/cover/poster looks disturbingly a lot like hentai doujinshi-material. As in, the style it's drawn and coloured in. Most hentai (and yaoi) dating sims are drawn that way...

i thought i played fighting games, but i didnt even recognise the majority of the games that were mentioned

I want to know why the hell they're not making any more Guilty Gear games.

holy crap!!! theyre not?!?!

 

[da K.I.D.]

but on topic.
i also loved brawl, because i have the feeling of self in this game
in melee, i didnt start playing until like 4 years after it came out, everything that i did that i thought was cool and exciting, had already been done before, and the best stuff i could do, was just stuff that i picked up from watching vids of other people. but in brawl,

i got to start at the beginning, and now even tho i picked up stuff from other people. the majority of the game is stuf that i figured out on my own. stuff that i created, and ive made my own playstyle. in this game nobody can tell me that i stole whatever move from whatever player, because we all started doing it at the same time. the fact that i can be unique and create my own style, and do really cool stuff that nobody has seen before, is what makes me happier when i play brawl, than melee