Pictochat

[Inui]

Camping on a stage to avoid hazards is dumb. It's impossible to do so anyway since you'll be too buzy fighting your opponent than to "predict" the next stage hazard coming up. You guys make it seem like your some prodigy at reacting, DI'ing, and predicting something that comes out every 26 seconds. Get that **** outta here.

"Be better" is a pretty good argument though, I'll give u guys that.

People arguing for this to be legal are ridiculous.

Ah, yet another true elite top class player and host argues against the stage and agrees it's stupid!

Hah! The skill gap between the two sides is insane.

Just accept that you are peasants arguing against royalty and that it's hopeless regardless of how great you think your points are.

 

[teh_spamerer]

Static, therefore predictable, hazards cannot be compared to a bob-omb spawning into your attack. They can be compared to getting hit by Palkia's Hyper Beam, given the chance to shield.

What is different about allowing items which don't have drastic effects and allowing Pictochat?

If you turn off all the items with extreme effects and set the frequency to whatever is closest to them appearing every 11 seconds or w/e the drawing rate is on Pictochat it becomes the same argument.

Learn how to read.

Learn the stage. I am certainly not a scrub. If you were here in Ottawa, you would realise I am consistently winning money at bi-weeklies, due to extensive knowledge of characters, stages, and the synergy between them. When somebody goes "OH WTF?!" I can honestly say "I planned that."

You wouldn't be making anything if NJ resided in Ottawa. Well that's not completely true, you might make a few pennies begging on the streets.

 

[Linkshot]

Right, then. I'm out of this threat.

It seems the "elite" players only strive to insult those that oppose them.

 

[_umbra_]

BS stages should always be banned on the east coast, it's tradition.

EC people who like pictochat can just drive to midwest, I'm sure it's legal there ^_^

 

[Inui]

Right, then. I'm out of this thread.

It seems the "elite" players only strive to insult those that oppose them.

Bye bye, lol.

BS stages should always be banned on the east coast, it's tradition.

EC people who like pictochat can just drive to midwest, I'm sure it's legal there ^_^

qft

 

[the melon!!!!!]

I don't feel like using the Brule today, so I'll make this brief...

Pictochat cp'ing...



is dumb...




Good night everybody.

 

[Alex Strife]

I keep it legal cause people want it legal in nyc.

However,

I do respect if my NJ brethren and understand that they do not want the stage legal and respect their wishes.

I see both sides and I do lean towards avoiding campy stages cause of progressing the game as a whole. Bottom line people are kinda homo about things and do not understand that camping is a legit tactic. But cause people wanna have fun I do not blame them XD

A lot of stages I want more of...specially Pirate Ship since the warnings are there and such. In the end it is about fairness and though I am a great TO and good player I am not going to knock people for liking a stage.

Inui I know how you are so let them discuss it. There is never anything wrong with knowledge. Just because you know something does not mean others do not.

With that it should be fine and more likely than not I will experiment with interchanging "controversial stages" in my NY tournaments to latter see evidence of what stages I believe to be perfect for competitive play.

 

[fkacyan]

Darn giving G&W something. I forgot that only Wario, Snake, and MK are supposed to have fair(for the most part) stages to win on.

You're twisting my words, and you know you are, too.

 

[daisho]

NO. It will happen once in a while.

Which ones seriously impact the match? The Bombs, Plant, Car, and Spikes.

There are how many transformations? 23?

One every 26 seconds. Each match is about 4:30. That is 270 seconds. That is 10 transformations. Say half of them come out.

At high levels of play, how long are you in hitstun or otherwise immobilized? 30 Seconds of the match? Probably much less.

Any one of these will only be in about 1/5 of the stage.

Lets see what we have in which I used conservative estimates.

4/23 * 1/2 * 1/9 * 1/5 = .0019
About .2% meaning that you will get hit by one of these things about 1/500 matches that you play on pictochat.

In a big tournament if you win it you have to play like 8-10 matches? Meaning 10 CPs... If every time they could they cpd pictochat then there would be a 1/50 chance you would get hit (not necessarily game changing) by one of these objects in the entire tournament.

Comments? Anybody?

 

[Inui]

Comments? Anybody?

Nope.

 

[daisho]

Nope.

Okay... im counting that as an admission of defeat

 

[Inui]

Okay... im counting that as an admission of defeat

Since the stage is staying banned, not really.

 

[fkacyan]

Okay... im counting that as an admission of defeat

You would accept the fact that your opponent could potentially win 2% of the time with absolutely no controller input?

 

[daisho]

Since the stage is staying banned, not really.

Lolz I know its banned I just want you to find a flaw in my logic.

You would accept the fact that your opponent could potentially win 2% of the time with absolutely no controller input?

.2% is different than 2%

And yes, .2% is acceptable... probably the chances that you like sneeze or something in the middle of a match...

And if you read my post then it will also say those are the chances of hitting one of said objects not the fact that it will be game altering just that it has the potential to be.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I can't believe this arguement is still going on. LETS MAKE TEMPLE, BIG BLUE, AND SHADOW MOSES ISLAND LEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[daisho]

I can't believe this arguement is still going on. LETS MAKE TEMPLE, BIG BLUE, AND SHADOW MOSES ISLAND LEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the goal of this post was...

 

[Inui]

That's funny, because I've yet to ever play a match on that stage in tournament where I didn't feel I would have won if I wasn't on that stage, and it was because of a luck-based thing.

 

[bobson]

That's funny, because I've yet to ever play a match on that stage in tournament where I didn't feel I would have won if I wasn't on that stage, and it was because of a luck-based thing.

Simple nature: you are convincing yourself that your loss was because of the stage's randomness rather than because you didn't have enough experience on the stage to avoid it.

Compare "That wasn't a real win, Snake is just bull****."

 

[_umbra_]

snake is bull**** though

 

[daisho]

That's funny, because I've yet to ever play a match on that stage in tournament where I didn't feel I would have won if I wasn't on that stage, and it was because of a luck-based thing.

So in other words "Hmm, good point daisho, I'll refute it with my experience on the matter". So basically I outlogiced you. I win!

Anyway to respond to that. Sure the hazards may seem like luck but it is unlikely that it will ever happen where it was unavoidable.

 

[Inui]

So in other words "Hmm, good point daisho, I'll refute it with my experience on the matter". So basically I outlogiced you. I win!

No. You did nothing of the sort.

teh_spamerer ***** you scrubs, lol.

 

[daisho]

No. You did nothing of the sort.

teh_spamerer ***** you scrubs, lol.

Deflection followed by an insult as well as complimenting someone on your side of the argument who has never responded towards me on this topic.

 

[SecretofMana]

No. You did nothing of the sort.

teh_spamerer ***** you scrubs, lol.

Stop.

This entire thread has practically degraded into childish insults, comebacks and logic fueled by some anonymity.

Don't forget that some people actually read these threads to learn something from both sides of the argument, not to read about men acting like 12-year olds. <_<;;

Let's drop the elitist bullcrap for a second. No one's "winning this argument" or ****** scrubs within the argument because it's subjective to different opinions which may or may not be right or wrong.

Answer this question for me, please, Inui, so we can restore some manner of order to the thread before it inevitably gets locked.

What's wrong with Linkshot's argument that you can camp every 23 seconds after the first transformation to avoid taking damage from the new transformations? It makes sense logically, so why does it not work in practice?

 

[Inui]

What's wrong with Linkshot's argument that you can camp every 23 seconds after the first transformation to avoid taking damage from the new transformations? It makes sense logically, so why does it not work in practice?

That would turn the stage into the biggest campfest in the game, guaranteeing every match will go to the timer.

In mid match, it's not practical. People aren't thinking about that crap. When they are down, they have to approach. When they are fighting, they can get hit, and the punishment for being hit should be...getting hit. A random occurance shouldn't doom you further and help your opponent based ONLY ON LUCK.

 

[daisho]

That would turn the stage into the biggest campfest in the game, guaranteeing every match will go to the timer.

In mid match, it's not practical. People aren't thinking about that crap. When they are down, they have to approach. When they are fighting, they can get hit, and the punishment for being hit should be...getting hit. A random occurance shouldn't doom you further and help your opponent based ONLY ON LUCK.

The random occorance will doom you further 1/500 times...

Camping in the safe zone every 26 seconds is not viable. What if you are on the other ledge and are being pressured off? What if DDD grabs you and is chaingrabs you? What if you are recovering?

Being on a certain half of the stage is just not going to happen all of the time.

 

[Inui]

The random occorance will doom you further 1/500 times...

Ok so I lost to a 1/500 chance in tournament several times. Sorry, but your math has to be flawed.

 

[daisho]

Ok so I lost to a 1/500 chance in tournament several times. Sorry, but your math has to be flawed.

Either that (which it may be) or the occurrence was not completely random and could have been avoided. (As in the spikes are out and then you are hit into them).

 

[SecretofMana]

That would turn the stage into the biggest campfest in the game, guaranteeing every match will go to the timer.

Fair enough, but isn't part of the logic behind a counterpick either to aid your playstyle or your character? If I'm a campy player, would Pictochat not then be a good counterpick against the guy who rushes me haphazardly?

In mid match, it's not practical. People aren't thinking about that crap. When they are down, they have to approach. When they are fighting, they can get hit, and the punishment for being hit should be...getting hit. A random occurrence shouldn't doom you further and help your opponent based ONLY ON LUCK.

Good point, except couldn't it also theoretically help you make a comeback against your opponent when you're down just as it can doom you? If I CP Falco on Pictochat, I can stay off to the sides and spam SHDL all day while my opponent approaches into the center, where there's a greater chance of a hazardous transformation occurring, can't I?

 

[Inui]

Fair enough, but isn't part of the logic behind a counterpick either to aid your playstyle or your character? If I'm a campy player, would Pictochat not then be a good counterpick against the guy who rushes me haphazardly?

Not in a manner that ruins the game or is broken.

It's great if you're campy...a little too great. There plenty of legal options already for campy players. Any big stage or stage with lots of ledges is great for campers. FD, Delfino, Halberd...it's easy to run the clock on those stages.

Good point, except couldn't it also theoretically help you make a comeback against your opponent when you're down just as it can doom you? If I CP Falco on Pictochat, I can stay off to the sides and spam SHDL all day while my opponent approaches into the center, where there's a greater chance of a hazardous transformation occurring, can't I?

So...they are forced to roll the dice and hope and pray something doesn't appear and hurt them while they are forced to approach, and what appears is completely random, and luck can just decide who wins.

Naaaaah, that **** should be banned, lol...

 

[Alex Strife]

*unsubcribes*

this is why i dont add input xD

 

[Turbo Ether]

*unsubcribes*

this is why i dont add input xD

I don't blame you.

 

[Alex Strife]

I actually listened to the views and wanted to provide input since I allow it in my state instead it turns into a bashing session. Some of those people do research but because they are not in the region or entering tournaments they are disregarded. It is w/e

 

[bobson]

What's wrong with Linkshot's argument that you can camp every 23 seconds after the first transformation to avoid taking damage from the new transformations? It makes sense logically, so why does it not work in practice?

It's not realistic to keep in the safe zone the entire match (or even every time a transformation spawns) while fighting your opponent off unless you're paying an abnormal amount of attention to it. It's still probably handy to pay attention and try to be there when you're at risk, but the safe zone argument is there mainly to bolster the fact that the hazards are easily avoidable; you can specifically avoid that area the whole match and still dodge every hazard on reaction just fine.

 

[daisho]

I actually listened to the views and wanted to provide input since I allow it in my state instead it turns into a bashing session. Some of those people do research but because they are not in the region or entering tournaments they are disregarded. It is w/e

This thread lost its usefulness before it happened. You haven't changed your view and Inui hasn't changed his. You two are the main TOs in the area and most others are subservient to Inui.

 

[bobson]

In this thread's defense, it did give me a couple posts I can reference off-hand whenever people start johning about Pictochat in the future.

 

[_umbra_]

What's important is that inui is the most important tournament host in his area, not necessarily the whole east coast. He may feel very strongly about this, but other TO's may see your arguments and decide to allow pictochat.

That being said, I agree with inui and think the stage is ********, but w/e. I'm sure the thread wasn't useless ^_^

 

[KillerSOS]

I just figured something out... Inui is a very rude person.

Interesting.

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol at people still just figuring that out