PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Divinokage]

I love how PP called me out specifically for trolling. =P

 

[crush]

just remind armada to switch colors a lot. <3

Yeah of course Clone King, armada is pretty good at falco dittos, he would definitely have a chance versus PP. I saw him using the momentum from laser edgecancels to edgeguard, pretty impressive. I was like "wow, look at all that momentum for hitting his firefox O_O"

 

[Dr Peepee]

I love how PP called me out specifically for trolling. =P

It wasn't for trolling. XD If it was for trolling then I'd just ignore you because EVERYONE IN MY THREAD DOING IT WON'T STOP ANYWAY

<.<

 

[CK Momentum]

Yeah of course Clone King, armada is pretty good at falco dittos, he would definitely have a chance versus PP. I saw him using the momentum from laser edgecancels to edgeguard, pretty impressive. I was like "wow, look at all that momentum for hitting his firefox O_O"

Yeah Dr. PP will have to use this advice if he's going to even stand a small chance vs. Armada.

Crouch Kancel Momentum.

 

[Divinokage]

It wasn't for trolling. XD If it was for trolling then I'd just ignore you because EVERYONE IN MY THREAD DOING IT WON'T STOP ANYWAY

<.<

True, but still Falco is still OP.. if you didn't find the key to **** the first time then you can do it next time and do more combos to death. lol. =P You can't deny that Falco combos are pretty much faceroll.

 

[Druggedfox]

Falco combos are totally not faceroll >_>

There's not a single player out there who has completely optimized falco's combos

 

[crush]

Yeah Dr. PP will have to use this advice if he's going to even stand a small chance vs. Armada.

Crouch Kancel Momentum.

-_- I was actually being serious in that post, go watch some matches of armada's falco if u dont believe me (armada has beaten m2k's sheik with falco before)

From now on you'll be crouch kancel momentum and I guess foxlisk can be foxjew. Mafia can be The Irish Jew or The Nazi Jew, since he kinda looked like one with his triumph of the will haircut.

 

[Divinokage]

Falco combos are totally not faceroll >_>

There's not a single player out there who has completely optimized falco's combos

Uh huh, the optimization doesn't exist because people can mix it up to prevent certain things from happening... it's impossible to always be on the winning side which is why you have back it off sometimes. I can't believe you would deny that, his combos are ****.

 

[CK Momentum]

Falco combos are totally not faceroll >_>

There's not a single player out there who has completely optimized falco's combos

Can you explain what you mean by "optimizing"? To me, if a character's combos are optimized, there would be a 0death on every other character.

They are still faceroll. Whatever that means.

 

[Veetaak]

Well, his combos are faceroll when you get a good first hit but that's only to a certain percent depending on character, map, position, % etc. You can't faceroll your way to 0-->deaths

 

[JPOBS]

Top player logic:

> Beats everyone in the world in a given matchup
> Says matchup is 7:3 in favor of the opponent

 

[ShroudedOne]

So wait...are MU johns made more legitimate if Armada wins against all the Foxes anyways? Or less legitimate? Hmm...paradox indeed (though I don't think that he's johning).

 

[FoxLisk]

Uh huh, the optimization doesn't exist because people can mix it up to prevent certain things from happening... it's impossible to always be on the winning side which is why you have back it off sometimes. I can't believe you would deny that, his combos are ****.

this is barely even english... try again


itt people dont know what 'optimize' means

 

[Warhawk]

I didn't realize Armada's Falco was that good... His shield pressure was really impressive to me. Some of his approaches and combo choices were a little... weird I thought, but still impressive especially considering he just uses him as his PS counterpick.

 

[Pi]

jelly of that pal dair lol

 

[Beat!]

Seems like the new way of the Warrior is to walk around and call other characters "OP".

 

[crush]

Warrior johns.

 

[Bones0]

Falco has solid combos on a good chunk of the cast, but the ENTIRE cast has INSANE combos on Falco. So tired of character johns. People need to just accept that it doesn't really matter that much. If a Fox and Peach player are evenly matched, will Fox win 70% of the time? **** no. They'll trade games back and forth, and someone will win by 1. Please get a grasp on reality, holy ****.

 

[Pi]

bonesss i can't wait till apex when u get knocked back down to earth lololol

 

[Bones0]

What are you talking about?

 

[linkoninja]

I forgot who it was but somebody said that the true test of smash-skill is dittoes. And I could agree with this statement, if your both playing the same character with the exact same options then the better/smarter player will win. Think about that PP because your a genius just keep training and hopefully you'll do good at Apex. P.S don't get sick like at Genesis.

 

[Dr Peepee]

It would be pretty funny if the new thought process of the smash community became "dittos are most important" rather than the old "dittos don't prove anything" haha.

Thanks for the support man, and I'm taking care of myself now so here's hoping. =)

 

[Beat!]

the better/smarter player will win.

This isn't exclusive to dittos. >_>

 

[Pi]

ditto's are amazing for improving as a player

 

[Beat!]

That's true.

 

[Mew2King]

people who say dittos don't prove anything are just making excuses so that they can still say they have the better <insert character> if they lose

the REAL truth is that dittos are just another matchup. I don't see why it should hold any more or less significance than any other common top/high tier matchup. Winning a ditto means you may or may not be better than them. In the end, tournament results (over a long period of time) is the best indication of how big of a tournament threat the player is in the current metagame. As far as "skill", that is is subjective and opinion.

 

[Beat!]

^That is also true. Very true.

I feel like I'm contributing a lot currently.

 

[Mew2King]

I can also agree with the stance that in a SMALL (SMALL) sense, it shows more skill, because you have the same options

but I don't agree with this being applied heavily. For the MOST PART, it should have similar weight to how you perform vs other matchups and people and characters and your results, etc.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Sounds to me that if we were using just matchups as indicators of skill(which we would do to get a place in this discussion), that you're saying that a ditto is the best measure of skill. Margin aside, it is essentially what you just said and kinda funny to think about.

I'd think it would show a lot of skill to overcome a previously considered "bad" matchup somewhat consistently or at least innovate against it, because of how much of an uphill battle one must fight even after the player vs player effects come into play. Not to say that this is a better indicator than a ditto, but it is something worth considering, at least.

 

[Divinokage]

Falco has solid combos on a good chunk of the cast, but the ENTIRE cast has INSANE combos on Falco. So tired of character johns. People need to just accept that it doesn't really matter that much. If a Fox and Peach player are evenly matched, will Fox win 70% of the time? **** no. They'll trade games back and forth, and someone will win by 1. Please get a grasp on reality, holy ****.

Who's character johning? Also then why would a character be placed first on the list then? Is it not because spacies **** the entire cast? The options are endless!!

 

[Bones0]

Who's character johning? Also then why would a character be placed first on the list then? Is it not because spacies **** the entire cast? The options are endless!!

Anyone who thinks Fox/Peach is 70/30.

I don't even understand the rest of your post. I'm guessing you are talking about the tier list, but I'm pretty much of the opinion that we shouldn't even have a tier list while the metagame is still developing.

 

[Pi]

i don't think most people understand what exactly a disadvantageous matchup actually entails any way

i remember hugs saying something like just because character A shuts down character B's ____ doesn't mean character B ever needs to do ______

samus gets **** on in the air by marth, falcon, and ganon
so you work to stay on the ground, and the longer you stay on the ground, the more even the matchup is

if you jump around a lot and get punished, the matchup is ****ty because you played it wrong

on the other side of that, if the marth/falcon/ganon player doesn't know how to juggle you, or does a poor job at it, then they make the matchup more even cause they aren't taking advantage of what they have over you as a character when you're vulnerable

and i said most people, i may be wrong, mainly i just wanted to post this

 

[Druggedfox]

Uh kage and ck... do you guys know what optimize means?

I never said that falco's combos aren't good, I said they aren't "faceroll". You want faceroll? How about sheik's combos, or marth combos? Those are pretty faceroll. Faceroll implies you could roll your face across the controller and achieve the desired effect = EASY. Falco's best combos are from obvious/easy; there isn't even a standard falco combo once you get past like 35% on most characters, and most people don't even *start* falco combos off the same way for the starting 35%.

Kage: Just beacuse they can mix it up doesn't mean there isn't an optimal combo. You just have to pick the optimal combo that covers the most options, or gives the highest reward based on their mixups.

CK: Are you trolling? >_> Optimized meaning... the best *possible*. It is not actually possible to 0-death your opponent every time if they are competent, so optimized comboing would have nothing to do with 0-deathing them every time in every situation.

 

[Thanos828]

Armada used Falco in some friendlies at Apex (2010), IIRC. It's probably existed long before that too.

 

[FoxLisk]

Uh kage and ck... do you guys know what optimize means?

I never said that falco's combos aren't good, I said they aren't "faceroll". You want faceroll? How about sheik's combos, or marth combos? Those are pretty faceroll. Faceroll implies you could roll your face across the controller and achieve the desired effect = EASY. Falco's best combos are from obvious/easy; there isn't even a standard falco combo once you get past like 35% on most characters, and most people don't even *start* falco combos off the same way for the starting 35%.

Kage: Just beacuse they can mix it up doesn't mean there isn't an optimal combo. You just have to pick the optimal combo that covers the most options, or gives the highest reward based on their mixups.

CK: Are you trolling? >_> Optimized meaning... the best *possible*. It is not actually possible to 0-death your opponent every time if they are competent, so optimized comboing would have nothing to do with 0-deathing them every time in every situation.

haha thank you for explaining this. i wanted to but i was too tired.

@Kage spacies don't **** the whole cast, you just have to believe in yourself lol well thats what i always think it works for the warrior and use all your tools!

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Armada used Falco in some friendlies at Apex (2010), IIRC. It's probably existed long before that too.

everyone keeps talking about his spacies as if they're new? (im guessing because of ajp anton's channel)

did everyone forget armada switched to fox in GF's of genesis1? this was clearly a bad/salty choice, but if he even picked fox at that time he already felt he had enough to utilize him in tournament. 2-3 years later of course they are gonna wreck even harder.



LOL drugged it's quite silly to call marth combos faceroll over falcos..

 

[Winston]

I never said that falco's combos aren't good, I said they aren't "faceroll". You want faceroll? How about sheik's combos, or marth combos? Those are pretty faceroll. Faceroll implies you could roll your face across the controller and achieve the desired effect = EASY.

I haven't seen anyone out there who's completely optimized Sheik/Marth's punish games, either.

I'm not arguing this with you cause there's no way I can win LOL (you'll just cite yourself or something) but I'm pretty sure it's true for the population of players that I can observe by watching videos and going to nationals. Not making a statement about the characters, just how well people use them.

If you mean that Sheik/Marth's punishes are more a matter of execution/reaction and Falco's are more about decision making, then I would agree with you, though.

 

[Niko45]

what...








marth combos are retardedly circumstantial and vary a ton off of different DIs.

Falco combos are like dair to dair to dair to...oh wait dair again

 

[Pi]

what...








marth combos are retardedly circumstantial and vary a ton off of different DIs.

Falco combos are like dair to dair to dair to...oh wait dair again

no you pretty much just swing your sword until it hits, then you hit them again

 

[Veetaak]

hahaha

So much "My character sucks compared to yours!"