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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

AvengerAngel

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I've finished watching the Puff vids. Everything I said earlier applies to them as well, of course. For more specifical advice...

- There are 3 main things that you should avoid AT ALL COSTS: getting grabbed, getting Uaired and getting Utilted. If you get hit by one of those moves, DI away as soon as possible or you're going to get rested for sure. Sometimes you stayed too much time (in your shield or not) next to your opponent, and that gave him the opportunity to grab/Utilt you and rest. If you can avoid getting rested or gimped, Puff is going to have a very hard time killing you

- Keep your combos simple and go (almost) only for guaranteed hits. If you can't hit him, keep stage control and prepare to punish his bad spacing. You went out of the stage trying to Dair him even when it was clear it wouldn't connect, and that would have costed you the stock against a better Puff. If you can't go on with the combo just stay close to him and get ready to punish/edge guard without throwing out unsafe things

- Again, use more grabs and mix-up your throws. After a while Jetfour was DI'ing your uthrows better, and you couldn't get many hits out of them. In that case either 1) wait for him to do something wrong and punish or 2) try with another throw. You can connect moves to any throw if the Puff doesn't DI well. Dthrow is nice but doesn't work very often with good Puffs. Fthrow/Bthrow are very nice and they can usually push your opponent near the ledge, where you'll easily get edge guard opportunities

- You didn't abuse your hitboxes enough. Jetfour doesn't look like he's really good with Puff and her big hitboxes/aerial mobility, so you did well anyway. But if the Puff is better, you're going to get more pressured and you won't be able to get momentum back just shooting a few lazers. Bair and Utilt can easily trade/outprioritize Puff's moveset (even her Bair) if you space/time them well, so they're a great defensive tool. Try to abuse them in some matches to get the right timing/spacing

- Platforms are good. Again, you didn't need to use them because your opponent's spacing wasn't that good, but keep it in mind in case you face a better Puff. Puff has a slow vertical mobility, so she can't get to you quickly enough. If you lose momentum/stage control you can camp a bit on the platforms and get it back quickly if the Puff doesn't respect your options. If she comes at you, you can either outprioritize/trade with Bair/Dair/Nair coming at an awkward angle or just get off the platform with a lazer and you'll have stage control once again, with Puff being airbone and in an awkward position

- CC/ASDI down more. That will help you avoiding some rest set ups (Utilt, Uair) and will give the Puff a hard time starting her combos at low %s (if she doesn't space well you can punish her with dtilt/usmash/fsmash). At medium-high %s it's still nice to ASDI down her Bairs because you can ground tech them (like Amsah does with Falco's dsmash) and avoid getting comboed more or getting gimped. I can't tell you how hard it is to do it consistently, but I can tell you that Puff's Bair is one of the few moves I can CCtech pretty consistently without even thinking about it. It could be because I'm used to the MU or maybe it's just very easy, you'll have to try it yourself xP

- Trades are very good for Falco. Puff will easily die at mid-high %s with pretty much every move (dtilt, fsmash, dair spikes, bair, uair, shine off the top, usmash etc. And pretty much all your moveset connects to one of those finishers lol), and if you will DI uthrows well and avoid eating multiple Bairs like a nub, she will have a VERY hard time trying to kill you past 70-80%
Also, remember that getting rested can be a good trade if you're a stock ahead, so don't be afraid of getting rested but don't be too reckless anyway xP

I could add more but those are the fundamentals that came to mind and now I have to go away xP
I hope it all makes sense lol. If you have any questions concerning the MU I'll be glad to answer them =D
 

Divinokage

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You guys should try to break down a match of your own, I discovered patterns that I still have and also it's good to see how many options you have given the position in between you and your opponent, it's cool. lol.
 

Dr Peepee

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I do quite often, but I believe I will be redoing my process for that in the upcoming months. Rather than looking at where I messed up and working from there, I plan on scrutinizing every detail of my play and how it has been influencing my opponent.

Good work btw Kage. =)
 

Sion

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You guys should try to break down a match of your own, I discovered patterns that I still have and also it's good to see how many options you have given the position in between you and your opponent, it's cool. lol.
this is something i'd love to do, but too lazy to actually put thought into
 

Rubyiris

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Thanks for the feedback, guise. Gives me some good things to keep in mind for this up-coming monthly. C:

If someone can critique the later parts of my samus chunks, that would also be really awesome. I was experimenting infusion beginning with sandbagging to conserve mental strength for later, as well as learning the character/player so Tue early matches are pretty derpy. Lots of getting ubed oos as I learn what does, and doesn't work.
:phone:
 

Rubyiris

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You'd understand if you knew anything about me as a player.

Until recently, I've been a part of sandbagging is evil/morally wrong/etc. I've lost several key tournament sets because I tried too hard, too early in the tournament, and by the time I'm very deep in bracket, I'm mentally exhausted. The point of sandbagging early on vs coreygames was trying to judge how little effort I have to exhert to still win. We played and recorded 6 days worth of games, and probably about 40 hours worth of smash during that time, with most of it me.playing with that mindset.

So tell me, child; is that still Johns to you?

:phone:
 

Divinokage

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this is something i'd love to do, but too lazy to actually put thought into
You dont really need to put thought into it, you just look at the match and see what you were trying to do based on what your opponent is doing.. I'm sure you can find a lot more options doing it that way. It's just your own observation.
 

ShroudedOne

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I watched those. They were pretty good. Also, lol at those matches with your Fox, PP. Maybe next time. :p
 

Rubyiris

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can u link me to the matches ur talking about rubyiris?
No problem.

The following sets are what opened my eyes about this issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uA0ClBt6y0&feature=youtube_gdata_playe

Set 1 was very early in bracket. I play pretty well and beast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfvh8FZ-4QM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Later in bracket. I go in game one strong but by the end of game 2 I'm running out of gas. I get **** on game 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxgv6GS1MHw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

The kicker. Late losers bracket rematch vs Kyle. The Guy's mental fortitude is very obviously higher than mine, plus he plays peach, a naturally less taxing character. I get worked. At the end of the set I basically just vegetated for the rest of the tournament, and ended up going home early because of exhaustion.

Another exqple that wasn't recorded was I beat okami pretty convincingly round 1 winners. After a late losers bracket set he challenges me to a money match, and I accept, albeit apathetically. He works me pretty hard because at that point I was too exhausted to give a ****, and he had dat salt running through his veins to keep him motivated.

If I ever get around to it I've also got probably about a little over a hundred hours of smash on my external drive I haven't done anything with due to laziness that showcases the differences in how I play based on mood, how energetic, or exhausted I'm feeling, and the caliber of player I'm playing with.

:phone:
 

Divinokage

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That's kinda cute, especially coming from a simple video game where you can play for hours and hours and still be leveled headed easily. I also disagree that Peach is less taxing, I think it's more taxing as a player. The more you move down the tier list, the harder it is to win the tough match-ups.. because you'll need to outsmart your opponent a lot more in general. I find it odd that justifying a loss is because you lost focus rather than admitting you got outplayed. I do feel like a lot of us do that to help sleep better at night rather than facing what is actually going on and fixing the problem before it happens.
 
D

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almost every mediocre - decent peach tells me getting lasered 08130830813x as falco is extremely taxing
 

JPOBS

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I don't really see the point in posting a video for critique, then telling people "oh btw everything i was doing wrong/bad was just me sandbagging/experiement so don't mind those parts"

what are we supposed to critique then?

losing because you're tired/mentally exhausted is a part of being a good player though. If you're good enough to make it to deep bracket, you have to also be good enough/mentally prepared to actually play them.
 

Rubyiris

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That's kinda cute, especially coming from a simple video game where you can play for hours and hours and still be leveled headed easily. I also disagree that Peach is less taxing, I think it's more taxing as a player. The more you move down the tier list, the harder it is to win the tough match-ups.. because you'll need to outsmart your opponent a lot more in general. I find it odd that justifying a loss is because you lost focus rather than admitting you got outplayed. I do feel like a lot of us do that to help sleep better at night rather than facing what is actually going on and fixing the problem before it happens.
Losing focus is part of being outplayed, and the main reason why I lost in those sets.


@jpobs: that's why I suggested checking later parts of tuw samus sets when I stop derping around.

:phone:
 

knightpraetor

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i dunno. i look at me zoning out in anything other than friendlies as a sign of my own lack of mental fortitude. in tourney, you should be able to hold focus for a mere dozen or two dozen sets.

The bigger problem is when gaps in play result in your fingers going cold and not being able to perform technically up to par.

in those situations...camp fair and autocancel nair till your fingers warm up and pray your opponent is a scrub
 

Rubyiris

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My problem is that maintaining a high level of focus, thinking quickly, studying on-the-fly, and keeping technically proficient, all together, eats up all of my fuel.

:phone:
 

Prince_Abu

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My problem is that maintaining a high level of focus, thinking quickly, studying on-the-fly, and keeping technically proficient, all together, eats up all of my fuel.

:phone:
dude smash isnt that complicated i mean u just pick up a controller and smash some smash this is a childrens game
 

silentSWAG

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so i was watching/taking notes from pp vs armada apex 2012
and kept on asking myself questions about waiting and stuff. so i started answering my own questions and came up with all this good stuff that makes perfect sense to me. i just feel like posting this here to see if any one out there agrees


Scenario- you have finished a tech roll or any other option from the ground

Your opponent’s options
Punish… (Only if they can)
Wait… (Get really close but space around “get up attack” – then punish .or just crouch it– then punish)
Waiting can turn into camping

Your options
Get punished… (Nothing you can do. it’s guaranteed)
Wait … (best option)
Approach… (Only if you are punishing, or if they are in shield)

*while you wait always BAIT!*
* Always switch up from the multiple options you have
* be careful and don’t fall for baits

Forms of waiting:
-Dashdance - best option for close range waiting
-wavedashing – same as dd
-Crouch - (better off not, but can be switched up with dd and wd to bait )
-shield - ( better off not because – your opponent isn’t always going to attack your sheild and They can just wait, Grab, bait. falco has a bad shield, options to get out of it have no range and are punishable)

Forms of camping:
Note: falco can’t run away. Camp if they are already far distance and camping you

Jumping – platforms, wavelands, double jumps (careful)
Top platform wait – only if character has to double jump to hit you
laser – sh ff, full hop double, full hop triple, platform drop.. etc

NOTE: When you wait you are – watching for your opponent to make a mistake, approach or any kind of lag that can be punished. Falco waits for an approach or any opportunity to laser whether the opponent chooses to attack or camp.
You must bait their decision!
 

Dr Peepee

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so i was watching/taking notes from pp vs armada apex 2012
and kept on asking myself questions about waiting and stuff. so i started answering my own questions and came up with all this good stuff that makes perfect sense to me. i just feel like posting this here to see if any one out there agrees





Scenario- you have finished a tech roll or any other option from the ground
Your opponent’s options
Punish… (Only if they can)
Wait… (Get really close but space around “get up attack” – then punish .or just crouch it– then punish)
Waiting can turn into camping
Your options
Get punished… (Nothing you can do. it’s guaranteed)
Wait … (best option)
Approach… (Only if you are punishing, or if they are in shield)

*while you wait always BAIT!*
* Always switch up from the multiple options you have
* be careful and don’t fall for baits
Forms of waiting:
-Dashdance - best option for close range waiting
-wavedashing – same as dd
-Crouch - (better off not, but can be switched up with dd and wd to bait )
-shield - ( better off not because – your opponent isn’t always going to attack your sheild and They can just wait, Grab, bait. falco has a bad shield, options to get out of it have no range and are punishable)-
Forms of camping:
Note: falco can’t run away. Camp if they are already far distance and camping you
-jumping – platforms, wavelands, double jumps (careful)
Top platform wait – only if character has to double jump to hit you
- laser – sh ff, full hop double, full hop triple, platform drop.. ect
NOTE: When you wait you are – watching for your opponent to make a mistake, approach or any kind of lag that can be punished. Falco waits for an approach or any opportunity to laser whether the opponent chooses to attack or camp.
You must bait their decision!
is that from both sides....

UGHHHHH

Waiting is **** but if you only wait you'll get caught sleeping occasionally(occasionally is all it takes to lose).

Approaching from certain spacings makes waiting a bad decision(which is how I got a lot of grabs because Armada loves waiting).

I waited a little too much that set I suppose, but I didn't expect it to come off that way....
 

Sion

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drpp, i was watching a set of you vs amsah, and i like your movement and choices

funny that i'm watching old videos rather than newer ones lol
 

CK Momentum

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how do i prevent falling through the platform when i dair shine my opponent? do i just tilt the stick as if i were dtiliting?

ICG is a nice guy. he bought me a soda at apex.

Edit: this is a reminder for myself that when im comboing some floatier/medium characters and i get them to go to the top platform, i gotta use utilt, or nair or something to prevent them from flying too far away and having to bait their defenseive aerial or dj or whatever.
 

Dr Peepee

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how do i prevent falling through the platform when i dair shine my opponent? do i just tilt the stick as if i were dtiliting?

ICG is a nice guy. he bought me a soda at apex.
2 ways I've found to do it:

1. The way you described. Holding down slightly for the shine but not mashing all the way down so you don't go through the platform. Can be done but you have to really think through your platform game then.

2. Hold down after the Dair so when you shine you'll just need to push B since you'll have down pushed all the way down the entire time and there's no way you can fall through.


I kinda do a mixture when I play based on what I'm thinking at the time lol.
 

Battlecow

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Interestingly enough, mango takes a solid majority (7 of 11) of recorded friendlies off of armada. He did the same thing at Gen 2, and even at pound 5; I wonder what changes between there and tourney? Does Armada have better nerves (character choice might help with this)? Does he not focus 100% in friendlies? Does he keep secrets for tourney in a way that mango doesn't?

Whatever it is, he's clutch as ****.

Also good **** in the friendlies vs mango, PP
 

Warhawk

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More likely than not its something between nerves, drive, mental fortitude(he could just lose drive after things go south or become disinterested after enough matches), or a combination of all of the above. Could also be that he's simply a worse tournament player than Armada.
 
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