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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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Oh yeah, there's no doubt that Falco would be better in teams for me personally for a while until I seriously played some other character in teams. My 1v1 shenanigans are still sometimes useful in doubles lol. I suppose if I trained enough in between majors, I could transition somewhat successfully the next time I was tested though.

I'm not sure how this sort of thing affects most people honestly since teams is weird to me still lol.
 

giovannig22311

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Thats pretty much all it is, wavedash towards you opponent(depending on where they DI)

and attack with a move of your choice.

Depending on how long your wavedash is and if the opponent has good DI or not you won't have to dash towards them so your free to do another aerial or uptilt or whatever.

I think you got confused and added a second wavedash, its more like


Shine -> wavedash -> run forward -> dair/nair/uair/bair. depending on the knockback you can either shine again or do another aerial or whatever you seem is most efficient depending on the situation
ooohhh i see thanks man

:phone:
 

FrootLoop

Smash Lord
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really? That's one of the things I love about falco in doubles and also why I think he's good.
I guess it can go both ways like if your team's in a bad position but you hit a random shine you can swing/reset the position probably better than fox can from a shine
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
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[02:31] Kevin: and LOL
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[02:31] Kevin: too itchy anyway
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[02:31] mycatgoesmow: hahahaha
[02:31] Kevin: hahahahaha i guess its biological. im not blamin you anyway
[02:31] mycatgoesmow: i mean
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[02:32] mycatgoesmow: does his voice sound like a truck on the freeway now?
[02:32] Kevin: he calls it jack three-dee LOL
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[02:35] mycatgoesmow: it's too good lol
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
ya i've noticed hahah...

i might be seeing you later today :)

edit: unless you don't live with chu still
i stay with chu's family for friday-monday usually, on monday afternoons i drive to PA for school and usually head back to VA friday nights.
 

giovannig22311

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how do i improve my tech skill with falco other than playin lv1 fox? what about if i play fox on the side will it improve my tech skill???

:phone:
 

Rubyiris

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Here's a question regarding practice:

My three main things I want to focus on a player are:

Technical consistency. Specifically, I miss a few too many fast falls during various different scenarios. One's I can't seem to reproduce with only A.I. opponents

Spacing. It's been observed that sometimes I just miss a little too often. Again, I can't really practice spacing versus things like DD/WD back/Pivoting with the A.I.

Minimizing self-destructs. This part I HAVE been able to practice. Mostly it comes down to recognizing when I'm going to ledge/edge cancel a move and not push L, learning to shorten my Illusion on reaction, and being more consistent with very precise stick movement.

Since two of my three main issues require human interaction, and I don't play people as good as me, or as often as necessary, what should I do?
 

Brookman

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Ruby, you honestly probably are uncreative and this will ultimately be your failing forever unless you can take yourself outside of the box.

My point is well-summarized in the very last sentence of that last post but I am inferring from a history of interaction on this site. I don't mean to be offensive and I know you are classically sensitive so this puts me in a difficult position. I think if you really put your mind and soul forth you will find success in anything you desire. the trick is not sub-consciously holding back in the face of judgment.

p.s. you stil suck at this game ;p

MOWWWWW!!!
 

FrootLoop

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how do i improve my tech skill with falco other than playin lv1 fox? what about if i play fox on the side will it improve my tech skill???

:phone:
learn all the laser stuff in the first post of this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203781
practice until you don't get it wrong


ruby: If you mess some stuff up when playing against people that you don't mess up against a computer, I think the problem is that you have to actively focus on executing it. Against computers you have the time to focus on it so you never miss it, but against people you're too busy thinking about the match to focus on tech. You have to move that specific tech skill to muscle memory so that you can't mess it up in a match, even when you're nervous. This will also probably cut down on SDs and let you focus more on spacing and options and whatnot
 

Rubyiris

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@Frootloop: The things I mess up can't be practiced to perfect muscle memory without other players to play with on a regular basis. I know why I'm messing up/etc. That wasn't the question. The question was "What should I do considering my lack of people to play with?"

@Brookman: I don't know how to respond to that, or how I could take it. If you said it to me, it would be the equivalent of going in one ear and out the other. I mean no disrespect.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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@Rubyiris: It kinda sounds like you lose control of yourself when you get too involved in watching an opponent and can't move exactly like you would when playing against CPUs. Either you need to adjust your overall movement game so you can do it easier with the amount of focus you give your character(can be done with CPUs), change your overall focus to yourself a little more(can kinda be done with CPUs), or you need to change how you're viewing the game so you can put yourself in better positions that will keep you from messing up more often(probably done on your own in your head).

The best way to handle this is to watch your own play and notice which moves are doing this to you and what is happening around those times. You'll probably notice patterns emerge and can handle groups of issues at once.
 

Rubyiris

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I personally feel like I don't pay enough attention to my opponent, and pay a little too much attention focusing on my own consistency during a set. That's just my personal observations on the matter.

I notice this mostly when playing doubles. I have a difficult time focusing on the match as a whole, and tend to hyper-focus on my own space.
 

FrootLoop

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try to focus elsewhere when you practice tech by yourself. Hold a conversation or watch cpus fight on the other side of the screen or something
 

Bones0

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I stare at the center of the screen when I practice tech skill. I've also been switching my L-cancelling from going all the way to just far enough to light shield. It allows me to tech after trying to L-cancel (don't you hate it when your dair trades with a spacie's up-B and you can't tech?), and if I miss a ledge cancel it still gets L-cancelled without the risk of an accidental airdodge.
 

Rubyiris

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I push my l button in all the way, but still tech anyways. I think what's happening is that I get hit before I can actually l cancel, but the l button input is still read.

:phone:
 

AvengerAngel

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Can I have some video critique please? <3
Here's a quite recent set I played in a tournament: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzJ6nYg6A-o

After losing I felt like my gameplay sucked the whole set because of tourney nerves (sigh). Watching it again today, it looks to me that I didn't play *that* bad afterall, even if I wasn't at the top of my game. It could still be pretty useful to get some critique, so I thought I would post it
There are some weird choices that I can't understand myself, but I guess I made them because I got heavily conditioned playing with OverLord for 3 days before the tourney lol. I was being ***** by powershields, shield drops (omg I HATE approaching Marf when he's on a platform and I end up eating a Fair/Dair), CCs etc. This is why I did some weird things I suppose.
Anyway it would be awesome if I could get some advice. I'll be playing with OverLord again in a few days and I have a lots of things I wanna test. Having these matches critiqued will help me in handling my bad habits and perhaps I'll get new ideas to test =D
 

Lightsyde

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Ruby, you honestly probably are uncreative and this will ultimately be your failing forever unless you can take yourself outside of the box.

My point is well-summarized in the very last sentence of that last post but I am inferring from a history of interaction on this site. I don't mean to be offensive and I know you are classically sensitive so this puts me in a difficult position. I think if you really put your mind and soul forth you will find success in anything you desire. the trick is not sub-consciously holding back in the face of judgment.
Ruby: For the record, I think this is probably more correct than you think and overall decent advice. Most of what holds people back in Melee has to do with their own self-image of their play and themselves as a player and not really their technical ability. You should probably not "in one ear, out the other" any advice given to you when you came in here asking for advice. Brookman is clearly trying to help you and you are pretty chronically touchy, at least in this thread.

Also: If you are still spending most of your time watching yourself and not your opponent, you're never going to get over whatever that's holding you back. This game has so much to do with good defensive reactions, which you can't really do if you are watching yourself. It's like trying to hit a baseball flying at you while fixating on looking at your bat.
 

knightpraetor

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yeah, but it is an option to watch the space between yourself and your opponent, if you can't perform technical moves while doing that you won't be able to perform in matches either. i recommend not watching your character while you train, just visualize a fake opponent moving and maintain spacing while watching your fake opponent like a hawk.

cause it feels a little stupid to be worrying about the spacing when the computer opponent just keeps slowly walking toward you lol
 

Rubyiris

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Ruby: For the record, I think this is probably more correct than you think and overall decent advice. Most of what holds people back in Melee has to do with their own self-image of their play and themselves as a player and not really their technical ability. You should probably not "in one ear, out the other" any advice given to you when you came in here asking for advice. Brookman is clearly trying to help you and you are pretty chronically touchy, at least in this thread.

Also: If you are still spending most of your time watching yourself and not your opponent, you're never going to get over whatever that's holding you back. This game has so much to do with good defensive reactions, which you can't really do if you are watching yourself. It's like trying to hit a baseball flying at you while fixating on looking at your bat.
What I mean by "in one ear, and out the other" is that I do not understand what he's saying at all.

I don't really understand what you're saying, either.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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Can I have some video critique please? <3
Here's a quite recent set I played in a tournament: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzJ6nYg6A-o

After losing I felt like my gameplay sucked the whole set because of tourney nerves (sigh). Watching it again today, it looks to me that I didn't play *that* bad afterall, even if I wasn't at the top of my game. It could still be pretty useful to get some critique, so I thought I would post it
There are some weird choices that I can't understand myself, but I guess I made them because I got heavily conditioned playing with OverLord for 3 days before the tourney lol. I was being ***** by powershields, shield drops (omg I HATE approaching Marf when he's on a platform and I end up eating a Fair/Dair), CCs etc. This is why I did some weird things I suppose.
Anyway it would be awesome if I could get some advice. I'll be playing with OverLord again in a few days and I have a lots of things I wanna test. Having these matches critiqued will help me in handling my bad habits and perhaps I'll get new ideas to test =D
burning double jumps unnecessarily

spacing moves outside of marth's range. you can go where marth is instead of where he might be often when falling or rising because you fall/rise much much faster than he can move in pretty much any direction

you need to laser with more purpose. make sure you laser at a range you are comfortable with and can get a solid followup/read on someone from that position. don't be too far away always and don't mess around in ranges you aren't comfortable in for long.

try not to spotdodge much after teching. rolling, jumping, attacking even(not shining usually) are better alternatives.

try to connect with shine at lower percents instead of uptilt

don't do too much AC Bair defensively if you can help it. marth can get under it/react to it easily if he just waits. he leans forward when he runs so you usually just hit him with the weak part lol. it's okay if he tries to swing or shields though, but usually marth isn't doing that

watch your combos and lasers mid-combo. you need to make sure you are thinking of how people will DI and hit them so that they get ***** for DI'ing that way.

you missed some weird FFs and L-cancels.

do the zhu vs m2k from no johns last summer edgeguard, otherwise bair

you get hasty and quit establishing control after you get some space/time after breaking free from a tech or sort of breaking free from it. just stay calm and recognize your position.

more lasers at neutral!

if you can't finish a combo with marth offstage, then keep him above you so you can abuse bair/uptilt shenanigans on him.

you need more varied movement after lasers....mixups...try WD'ing

don't be nervous he was nervous too lol.

This is all stuff I saw watching game 1 in order.

Yeah, but I sure haven't thought about it in a while. Pound 4 was an incredible tourney....wish I had prepared better haha but the experience was still amazing for sure. The hype of that match was unreal playing in it lol, first time NC had gone OOS in full force and rooted for me.

Anyone know where this supposed thrashing PP took from Gimpyfish at NWM can be located? :troll:
It's probably on a stream recording LOL. Maybe twitch.tv/meleepacwest. I'm not totally sure though.
 

AvengerAngel

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Thanks for the tips! Let's see

burning double jumps unnecessarily
Yeah, this is a bad habit that I still need to get out of. I realized that Falco feels much more comfortable on the ground than he does in the air vs. Marth, but from time to time I still commit to hard reads or try to gtfo the pressure as soon as possible with DJs lol. I'm working on it xP

spacing moves outside of marth's range. you can go where marth is instead of where he might be often when falling or rising because you fall/rise much much faster than he can move in pretty much any direction
I'm not sure I totally got what you're talking about here, could you please provide a timestamp? If you're talking about AC Bairs or Utilts well yeah, that's another bad habit that I'm trying to get out of. It used to work but then OverLord got better and started working around them, so I need to adapt back and stop making myself vulnerable with laggy moves xP

you need to laser with more purpose. make sure you laser at a range you are comfortable with and can get a solid followup/read on someone from that position. don't be too far away always and don't mess around in ranges you aren't comfortable in for long.

you get hasty and quit establishing control after you get some space/time after breaking free from a tech or sort of breaking free from it. just stay calm and recognize your position.

more lasers at neutral!
Ok, so this what I'm trying to work on but I still can't understand perfectly what I'm supposed to do. What's the range I am (or Falco is) comfortable with? I thought slightly outside tipper's range was a good range. It's pretty much a dash>SHL/SHFFL away from Marth, so I can punish pretty much everything he does. But then again if he powershields a lazer, I'm just in range for a PS > WD grab/tipper/whatever, sigh.
Do you think you could elaborate more on the neutral position? I *tried* to learn from your matches vs. M2K and from his posts about the MU (I remember him saying if Falco DDances right outside Marth's range he can punish him on reaction and he can also avoid pretty much everything Marth does), but it looks like I'm doing something wrong, even if I can't figure out what's that xP
It looks to me that M2K's gamestyle is passive enough for this kind of spacing to work. But against a Marth like Ice, for example, I don't know how this could turn out. I wish there were (more) games of you/Mango/Zhu/Shiz vs. Ice's Marth from Apex, sigh D:
tl;dr: if I stay far away from Marth I won't get ***** by PS's but I won't be hable to approach him quickly. If I'm close I can punish on reaction but it will be hard/impossible for me to avoid his nonsensical grabs/Fsmashes/Fairs, especially after PS's. That's pretty much what's giving me troubles in the MU: I can't understand what's the distance I should be at lol

try to connect with shine at lower percents instead of uptilt
Yeah, sometimes I get too greedy because I love Utilt and I give up combos like a nub lol

try not to spotdodge much after teching. rolling, jumping, attacking even(not shining usually) are better alternatives.
Thanks for pointing this out. I've just rewatched the video and noticed I spotdodged way too much. I usually don't, so I think that was because of the pressure. I'll try to keep more calm next time xP

watch your combos and lasers mid-combo. you need to make sure you are thinking of how people will DI and hit them so that they get ***** for DI'ing that way.
Mhm, do you think you could provide timestamps for this? Like "at this time you did X but Y would have been better and could have kept the combo going"?
I noticed a few mistakes with lazers (like 1.02 was pretty dumb) but having examples could be better x)

you missed some weird FFs and L-cancels.
Duh I don't recall seeing them but it's probably because of tourney nerves, sigh. I can hit consistently all my FFs and L-cancels in friendlies so yeah, I'm not worried about that aspect of my gameplay. I just need to get more consistent under pressure D:

do the zhu vs m2k from no johns last summer edgeguard, otherwise bair
I THINK I've watched the set twice but I can't understand what you're talking about D:
Can you please provide the link and some timestamps? Perhaps I've watched the wrong set lol, but I couldn't find any other vid on YT

if you can't finish a combo with marth offstage, then keep him above you so you can abuse bair/uptilt shenanigans on him.
From time to time I habe troubles with Utilt, because Marth's Fair/Dair trades or outpriotizes my move, sigh. Bairs are easier to land, though. Again, could you please provide an example? D:

you need more varied movement after lasers....mixups...try WD'ing
That's another thing I'm trying to get better at x(
I know it sounds like a nub question, but what do you mean with "try WD'ing"? Like dashing towards Marth and WD'ing back? What other kind of mix-up would WD'ing offer?

don't be nervous he was nervous too lol.
LOL easier said than done xd


Thanks for the critique, I hope you don't mind if I overwhelm you of questions like that lolol
 
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