Rubyiris
Smash Hero
As falco I like.to.shield camp platforms and spam.shine oos.
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
what's a tech roll stop?
Um basically keeping someone from rolling the full distance out of a tech roll with a laser. Basically, it keeps the opposing character close and easy to follow up on.
Bones0
Smash Legend
My favorite strategy when playing Falco in teams is to switch to Fox.
Yeah, not attempting to overcome adversity was my favorite part of every story ever.
owaitthatoptionsucksandyousuckforsuggestingit
owaitthatoptionsucksandyousuckforsuggestingit
I think Falco is good in teams...
Little England
Smash Master
Me too. Lasers are so powerful in teams, falco deserves a ****ty recovery and movement speed.
Bones0
Smash Legend
It seems like people are so butthurt over April Fools' jokes that they lash out at any jokes on April 2nd. Interesting... 
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
unknown522
Some guy
100% agree. I switch to falco sometimes vs floaty teams, or teams that also have falco (if the player is good though).
Little England, my critique for you is done. But currently not on a comp.
Edit: rubyiris, I wrote stuff for game 1 vs tai so far, but then KK kept calling me (phone) so I didnt get to finish. Then it reached 4am so yeah
D
Deleted member
Guest
I didn't read your post. it probably talked about strategy or other garbage. w/e.
I think falco is just a fox that can't run fast or kill people or recover and you get lasers (aka nothing).
team with the characters you would always team with, basically fox jigglypuff peach sheik falcon. tell them that you're sorry for playing falco when you could have played fox, and that they'll have to compensate for how terrible you are.
go to stages that would be good for fox and fox/jigglypuff/peach/sheik/falcon.
your primary strategy is to dair and bair a lot. if you think your opponent sucks, fsmash is good too. in the 5 minutes every match that you wish you were fox, you can cry tears of sorrow and regret for not picking fox. make sure your teammate berates you heavily.
when you get shine spiked or gimped or something and you think "well it's okay cause fox would have died there too" realize that you're wrong because you could have killed them already and you wouldn't be in this situation.
when your teammate gets ***** horribly, make sure you blame him for not making you play fox instead where you would have had the speed to save him. it's not even like fox is harder to play, he's just straight better/easier lol
this topic is stupid. just play fox.
yeah whatever you_other_fox_player lol get real
unknown522
Some guy
Little england:
Yeah, you can deafinitely beat the gay head to head. Laser laser laser. If he takes the edge and starts stalling, goes into shield, gets hit, or just avoids the laser then you can move closer.
Think of it this way: The closer to the edge he is, the less space he has to move back/run away. You can trap him and use that to your advantage. Maybe even gimp him. If you see him shield, then go for a grab.
Maybe something in this write-up will help you out.
Watching most of this match, it looks like you were afraid to be near him. One of the main reasons he was able to run around doing what he wants was because you didn't put any pressure on him. Anytime you hit his shield, you ran away (except once or twice I think. I know you got n-air'd oos once). Moving away from the shield isn't always bad, but if you don't put any pressure, then you don't really give them a reason to take defensive options, or play in a way that you want him to. You didn't really land any combos either. You need to take advantage of a situation as it comes to you, cuz there were a lot of openings that presented themselves, but you never took them.
Sorry if this makes me sound full of myself but I wouldn't be afraid of kels' sheik at all because his combo game is pretty weak. If he didn't land a gimp, then he got like 30% at most as a combo. Since I play with KK a lot (actually we played a long training session recently in this matchup), his combos are so gay and go upwards of 120% off of a good hit (unless he messes up, falls for one of my DI tricks, or gets greedy and tries to style on me). I'm still able to keep pace with this ridiculous amount of damage because I can avoid getting hit a lot, try to maximize damage output (I get in some good combos too), and avoid being put into bad positions (only if I mess up near the edge I guess). It's also easier to land a good hit with falco, since combos can be started from both the air or the ground (thank you shine).
Kels also tried to chase you on platforms sometimes, which is good for you cuz you can usually get to the ground first. Being under your opponent is one of the best situations for you.
I think you also need to try and anticipate what he's gonna do sometimes (like space around his stuff). There's some situations where thinking ahead could've gotten you the upper hand easily. If something does or doesn't work out the way you think, try to react to the situation and see what you can get. If nothing, try to get back to neutral. Also, when most sheiks chill around the edge, they're gonna fish for a grab, or an f-tilt, (unless you see them jump or shield). You can use this against them when pressuring their shield, or even just poking at them.
some tools that may help you out:
• DD
• WD back (optional)
• approaching/spacing with laser.
• shield game (also optional)
• double shine
• shine – grab
• grab in general
Some timestamps for you:
0:06 - he threw out a random grab and you jumped to the top platform. Then you dropped through and DJ wavelanded back onto it, instead of going down for the drill
0:10 - after you hit him and DJ away. He threw out another grab while you were in the air (TBH I saw the grab coming a mile away). You could've easily punished that one too. Afterwards though, you went down, but happened to miss an l-cancel which got you grabbed.
0:14 - when he ran off the stage, you could've definitely hit him with something. There were many options, such as:
• waveland off the platform and b-air
• laser him and combo him since he was in the air without a DJ
• waveland on the platform, then Isai drop into the above statement
• approached him from the ground
• CC his b-air (his back was turned so that would've probably been the aerial
• DD -> whiff punish him
• run in and shield the b-air and then shine oos
So anyways, instead you jumped away from him and took the center stage which also isn't bad, but it was a chance for you to land a hit on him that could've resulted in some big damage.
I would've approached from the ground with my shield to try and mess his spacing
0:17 - he jumped on a platform. Since you were so close to him that was the perfect time to go under him and hit him with something, or even probably just straight up n-air him. Alternatively, a laser in place to start a combo could've been good as well.
I probably would've went for the n-air
0:19 - when you did that small pressure string on his shield, then DJ over him. I noticed that you tried to u-tilt when you landed. Sadly you got grabbed before it fully came out. It wasn't a bad plan. It just happened to not work out that time.
I would've done a turnaround laser coming down.
0:26 - where you shot a laser and he grabbed, then you ran away. If you had DD'd at that time, you could've been close enough to punish. Alternatively, WD back and shine. Never be afraid to play a DD game vs sheik (especially when she's in shield). Most of sheik's approaches are kinda telegraphed if they aren't moving, so you can usually react to them moving towards you. Since falco has a high jump as well, it works well to just retreat to a platform quickly if you feel that they're gonna attack you. Crouching or shielding are also good options
0:29 - I dunno if you were watching your opponent. He even WD'd with the direction that you were running in. You could've DC - shined, or JC - shined him and probably started a combo. After that, you shot a laser, which would've been 100% unsafe had he had done anything aside from roll. But it worked out anyway.
Also, IMO you were afraid to be at the edge and just immediately ran out trying to get past him. That could be used against you, so be careful. You can fight back while you are trpped there.
0:30 - DI down + away.
0:33 - I knew everything that he was gonna do after the b-throw before even see it happen. You could've DI'd the throw better to avoid being put in that situation. Barring that, you could've done a lot of things to avoid the needle (which was his only option due to being so far away).
I would've jumped backwards then phantasm'd since he jumped before you did. Most likely would've went for the shorten
0:45 - that was another chance to attack. That run off f-air that he did was pretty obvious. Also, the fact that he was on the platform was already a good situation for you.
0:51 - I dunno if that DJ b-air was supposed to be a guess, but you needed to just watch where he was going.
what I would've done there was DD a bit. If he had happened to roll, then I would've probably ***** him for it. If he kept shielding or moved forward, then I would've gone for the attack with a n-air/dair (depending on the range).
0:56 - when he went into shield, that was another chance to go in for pressure. Make sure to delay the aerial though when going in like that. Alternatively, you could drop down and shine, then waveland onto the platform.
1:00 - he missed another grab and you were directly above him.
1:06 - It looks like you were afraid to be at the edge. He called your jump (I think?) with that b-air. You don't have to immediately move away from the edge. Falco is pretty good at the edge as well and you can fight back even when you're trapped there by the opponent with the use of lasers, the ledge, and a good oos game. Falco's b-throw isn't bad either
1:12 - Pressure. Shine his shield after the laser.
1:15 - when he came down from the top platform. If you were close, you could've punished with something.
I would've probably tried to crouch underneath him.
1:31 - I was thinking that he would come up and shield....and he did. Since you had him on the ropes, that was a chance to grab.
1:32 to 2:05 - it looks like you were really dedicated to avoiding getting hit, but also desperate for the kill. You space yourself so far away that you miss a lot of moves (I think that you were hoping that he would just run into them). He is out-spacing you and because of this, he gets the kill first. Use DD, grounded laser, w/e.
The worst part about this segment though is that kels keeps trying to gimp you with b-throw/f-throw when he's so far into the stage. I dunno how it almost worked everytime, but it wasn't because he made the right decisions.
2:05 - LHDL.
2:14 - you hit the laser after the spawn and no f-tilt.
2:46 - Shine oos
2:47 - shot your laser too high
2:53 - u-tilt instead of the second shine (well, the second shine wasn't that bad, but you chose the wrong move after lasering him).
2:59 - Panic mode. Sometimes it's good to just chill.
3:03 - If you didn't retreat to the top platform, you could've kept the advantageous position. DD, laser, w/e
3:20 - that missed edgeguard....
ending notes:
I dunno if I’m missing anything that hasn’t been said. You give up space too easily and really need to play a better ground game. Better laser control, DD, CC, shield, and grabs. Platform wavelands and isai drop lasers can come in handy as well when trying to go around attacks.
Falco is also the easier character to land grabs with. Even if his throws aren't as good as fox's (well, most of SWF thinks this, but I disagree anyway), you should use that to your advantage
When trapped at the edge, you could also WD back and grab the ledge. Then come up with one of falco's amazing ledge options. If they don't respect your space, then you get a free hit (assuming you don't mess up ofc). If they do respect your space, then you get on the stage for free.
Anyways, hope that helps
edit: oh yeah, combos.
Yeah, you can deafinitely beat the gay head to head. Laser laser laser. If he takes the edge and starts stalling, goes into shield, gets hit, or just avoids the laser then you can move closer.
Think of it this way: The closer to the edge he is, the less space he has to move back/run away. You can trap him and use that to your advantage. Maybe even gimp him. If you see him shield, then go for a grab.
Maybe something in this write-up will help you out.
Watching most of this match, it looks like you were afraid to be near him. One of the main reasons he was able to run around doing what he wants was because you didn't put any pressure on him. Anytime you hit his shield, you ran away (except once or twice I think. I know you got n-air'd oos once). Moving away from the shield isn't always bad, but if you don't put any pressure, then you don't really give them a reason to take defensive options, or play in a way that you want him to. You didn't really land any combos either. You need to take advantage of a situation as it comes to you, cuz there were a lot of openings that presented themselves, but you never took them.
Sorry if this makes me sound full of myself but I wouldn't be afraid of kels' sheik at all because his combo game is pretty weak. If he didn't land a gimp, then he got like 30% at most as a combo. Since I play with KK a lot (actually we played a long training session recently in this matchup), his combos are so gay and go upwards of 120% off of a good hit (unless he messes up, falls for one of my DI tricks, or gets greedy and tries to style on me). I'm still able to keep pace with this ridiculous amount of damage because I can avoid getting hit a lot, try to maximize damage output (I get in some good combos too), and avoid being put into bad positions (only if I mess up near the edge I guess). It's also easier to land a good hit with falco, since combos can be started from both the air or the ground (thank you shine).
Kels also tried to chase you on platforms sometimes, which is good for you cuz you can usually get to the ground first. Being under your opponent is one of the best situations for you.
I think you also need to try and anticipate what he's gonna do sometimes (like space around his stuff). There's some situations where thinking ahead could've gotten you the upper hand easily. If something does or doesn't work out the way you think, try to react to the situation and see what you can get. If nothing, try to get back to neutral. Also, when most sheiks chill around the edge, they're gonna fish for a grab, or an f-tilt, (unless you see them jump or shield). You can use this against them when pressuring their shield, or even just poking at them.
some tools that may help you out:
• DD
• WD back (optional)
• approaching/spacing with laser.
• shield game (also optional)
• double shine
• shine – grab
• grab in general
Some timestamps for you:
0:06 - he threw out a random grab and you jumped to the top platform. Then you dropped through and DJ wavelanded back onto it, instead of going down for the drill
0:10 - after you hit him and DJ away. He threw out another grab while you were in the air (TBH I saw the grab coming a mile away). You could've easily punished that one too. Afterwards though, you went down, but happened to miss an l-cancel which got you grabbed.
0:14 - when he ran off the stage, you could've definitely hit him with something. There were many options, such as:
• waveland off the platform and b-air
• laser him and combo him since he was in the air without a DJ
• waveland on the platform, then Isai drop into the above statement
• approached him from the ground
• CC his b-air (his back was turned so that would've probably been the aerial
• DD -> whiff punish him
• run in and shield the b-air and then shine oos
So anyways, instead you jumped away from him and took the center stage which also isn't bad, but it was a chance for you to land a hit on him that could've resulted in some big damage.
I would've approached from the ground with my shield to try and mess his spacing
0:17 - he jumped on a platform. Since you were so close to him that was the perfect time to go under him and hit him with something, or even probably just straight up n-air him. Alternatively, a laser in place to start a combo could've been good as well.
I probably would've went for the n-air
0:19 - when you did that small pressure string on his shield, then DJ over him. I noticed that you tried to u-tilt when you landed. Sadly you got grabbed before it fully came out. It wasn't a bad plan. It just happened to not work out that time.
I would've done a turnaround laser coming down.
0:26 - where you shot a laser and he grabbed, then you ran away. If you had DD'd at that time, you could've been close enough to punish. Alternatively, WD back and shine. Never be afraid to play a DD game vs sheik (especially when she's in shield). Most of sheik's approaches are kinda telegraphed if they aren't moving, so you can usually react to them moving towards you. Since falco has a high jump as well, it works well to just retreat to a platform quickly if you feel that they're gonna attack you. Crouching or shielding are also good options
0:29 - I dunno if you were watching your opponent. He even WD'd with the direction that you were running in. You could've DC - shined, or JC - shined him and probably started a combo. After that, you shot a laser, which would've been 100% unsafe had he had done anything aside from roll. But it worked out anyway.
Also, IMO you were afraid to be at the edge and just immediately ran out trying to get past him. That could be used against you, so be careful. You can fight back while you are trpped there.
0:30 - DI down + away.
0:33 - I knew everything that he was gonna do after the b-throw before even see it happen. You could've DI'd the throw better to avoid being put in that situation. Barring that, you could've done a lot of things to avoid the needle (which was his only option due to being so far away).
I would've jumped backwards then phantasm'd since he jumped before you did. Most likely would've went for the shorten
0:45 - that was another chance to attack. That run off f-air that he did was pretty obvious. Also, the fact that he was on the platform was already a good situation for you.
0:51 - I dunno if that DJ b-air was supposed to be a guess, but you needed to just watch where he was going.
what I would've done there was DD a bit. If he had happened to roll, then I would've probably ***** him for it. If he kept shielding or moved forward, then I would've gone for the attack with a n-air/dair (depending on the range).
0:56 - when he went into shield, that was another chance to go in for pressure. Make sure to delay the aerial though when going in like that. Alternatively, you could drop down and shine, then waveland onto the platform.
1:00 - he missed another grab and you were directly above him.
1:06 - It looks like you were afraid to be at the edge. He called your jump (I think?) with that b-air. You don't have to immediately move away from the edge. Falco is pretty good at the edge as well and you can fight back even when you're trapped there by the opponent with the use of lasers, the ledge, and a good oos game. Falco's b-throw isn't bad either
1:12 - Pressure. Shine his shield after the laser.
1:15 - when he came down from the top platform. If you were close, you could've punished with something.
I would've probably tried to crouch underneath him.
1:31 - I was thinking that he would come up and shield....and he did. Since you had him on the ropes, that was a chance to grab.
1:32 to 2:05 - it looks like you were really dedicated to avoiding getting hit, but also desperate for the kill. You space yourself so far away that you miss a lot of moves (I think that you were hoping that he would just run into them). He is out-spacing you and because of this, he gets the kill first. Use DD, grounded laser, w/e.
The worst part about this segment though is that kels keeps trying to gimp you with b-throw/f-throw when he's so far into the stage. I dunno how it almost worked everytime, but it wasn't because he made the right decisions.
2:05 - LHDL.
2:14 - you hit the laser after the spawn and no f-tilt.
2:46 - Shine oos
2:47 - shot your laser too high
2:53 - u-tilt instead of the second shine (well, the second shine wasn't that bad, but you chose the wrong move after lasering him).
2:59 - Panic mode. Sometimes it's good to just chill.
3:03 - If you didn't retreat to the top platform, you could've kept the advantageous position. DD, laser, w/e
3:20 - that missed edgeguard....
ending notes:
I dunno if I’m missing anything that hasn’t been said. You give up space too easily and really need to play a better ground game. Better laser control, DD, CC, shield, and grabs. Platform wavelands and isai drop lasers can come in handy as well when trying to go around attacks.
Falco is also the easier character to land grabs with. Even if his throws aren't as good as fox's (well, most of SWF thinks this, but I disagree anyway), you should use that to your advantage
When trapped at the edge, you could also WD back and grab the ledge. Then come up with one of falco's amazing ledge options. If they don't respect your space, then you get a free hit (assuming you don't mess up ofc). If they do respect your space, then you get on the stage for free.
Anyways, hope that helps
edit: oh yeah, combos.
Forgot about using Bair to wall out sometimes, thanks for reminding me Umbreon! What a pal <3
I'll do critiques in a bit.
I'll do critiques in a bit.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Work to get your lasers out faster at the beginning of the match, especially in Falco dittos, ESPECIALLY on FD lol. If you get stuck being lasered, try to shine/FH or DJ double laser, or just WD after taking a laser hit to throw off the opponent's spacing. Actually, just try to get a laser out whenever you can haha, that usually makes Falco dittos a lot easier.
Don't try to shield grab spacie's pressure. Shine OOS or gtfo usually.
Past 40% on shine dair combos, you should be looking for uptilts/smashes that can play on the opponent's DI and send them offstage quickly for kills. Also, Dair'ing them into the ground for quick Dsmashes can be really effective as well.
Try to side B into the edge of the stage if you want to side B from far away, unless the opponent looks like he may take the edge.
Don't dash attack anyone below like 45%!
Try not to do defensive AC Bairs OOS towards the opponent too much. Those can be baited really easily.
Try to use moves that will combo at good %s. Uptilt won't combo at 30, and Nair might not either. Hit with Dair to combo as much as possible unless the opponent is already in the air, then use your best discrection.
Try not to just hold shield after getting hit by lasers. I know it's hard, but you can move in between them, and the sooner you start doing it the easier it will be to handle pressure.
More Dair edgeguards!
That's all from game 1 btw.
Yeah like unknown said, you were just afraid of him. Recognize that Kels actually got shook by little things you did too(look at when you'd shoot him a couple times and get silly rolls) and you can take advantage of his fear of Falco as well.
Also, don't let him off the edge for free. Yes, you can get gimped, but Sheik also can't run away there. Space Bairs and alternatively lasers when he's getting up and you'll be fine.
Anything else was you getting impatient after doing very little. Consider how he feels when you shoot a laser at him when momentum/spacing is a certain way and you'll have a better chance at dealing with his responses.
Stop respecting him so much!
Also do what Unknown said lol.
I'll probably be watching the first game mainly and giving general critique.
Hit confirm shines. You can SH after shines if you want to for pressure and DJ'ing to punish, but don't DJ right away unless you're already comboing because you can be really vulnerable then.
Don't dash attack at low %s.
You really need to work on followups and what works at what % more. Be sure to have set ideas for transitioning into kills/combos from your neutral position ready right as you're hit confirming.
Don't burn DJ defensively if you can help it. FH takes you very far as it is.
You did a bit of movement outside of Marth's range, but then also attacked from that range. It's pretty easy for Marth to react when you're farther away and just DD'ing. Keep lasers in mind when approaching Marth.
When Marth's above you, work uptilt/FH or DJ Bair more.
Stop respecting Marth quite so much when you get the advantage. Marth doesn't have many fast counters to you getting close to him, so if you get inside you can do work unless he guesses what you're going to do. Be proactive instead of reactive basically.
You alternated between too many lasers and not enough. Shoot enough so that Marth is stuck and respects your approach, but not so many that he sees you confining yourself to a small space and moves in on you.
Make sure you hit your FFs, those got you a couple times.
More Bairs when edgeguarding.
Watch your grab spacing.
Little England
Smash Master
Thanks Unknown! It really does help a lot. Kels really takes tries to take me out of my element and when it works I can see how I miss all those opportunities you mentioned. I'll work on a stronger ground game in general and stop playing like a little ***** against him lol. That's when I play the best anyways.
What should I do about powershield grab? How should I approach the grounded laser game?
PP, I don't know what happened to bairing so I keep him towards the ledge. Like you said, the main issue just seems to be the respect I'm giving him which doesn't make any sense because I know he does not look forward to playing me in tournament and won't play Fox against me. lol I'm going to watch your videos along with Unknowns so I can see what consistent stage control looks like.
What should I do about powershield grab? How should I approach the grounded laser game?
PP, I don't know what happened to bairing so I keep him towards the ledge. Like you said, the main issue just seems to be the respect I'm giving him which doesn't make any sense because I know he does not look forward to playing me in tournament and won't play Fox against me. lol I'm going to watch your videos along with Unknowns so I can see what consistent stage control looks like.
giovannig22311
Smash Journeyman
hey falco thread i had a question if any one like could answer?? so i was playing my falco today, and i wavedashed, and i realize that if i try to move the controller stick to the right (like to run) and down to wavedash i moved a bit farther i think thats what happened. and i was wondering if thats true or do i jus gotta keep wavedashing to chase the dair when they go flying? idk i wonder how shiz and pp do it when they dair they get across the stage sooo fast and it looks lik a wavedash or it is run wavedash run wavedash? also when i uptilt to uair some times it doesnt connect i does falcos front foot have to hit him to keep juggling?? cuse when i do it, it hits but no juggle?
Bones0
Smash Legend
hey falco thread i had a question if any one like could answer?? so i was playing my falco today, and i wavedashed, and i realize that if i try to move the controller stick to the right (like to run) and down to wavedash i moved a bit farther i think thats what happened. and i was wondering if thats true or do i jus gotta keep wavedashing to chase the dair when they go flying? idk i wonder how shiz and pp do it when they dair they get across the stage sooo fast and it looks lik a wavedash or it is run wavedash run wavedash? also when i uptilt to uair some times it doesnt connect i does falcos front foot have to hit him to keep juggling?? cuse when i do it, it hits but no juggle?
It is a WD run. Step by step, it should go like this:
Shine -> WD (to whichever side of your shine you hit them with) -> dash towards them (to whichever way they DI'd the shine) -> SHFFL
As far as utilt uair, I would just suggest checking out the hitbox thread to see where Falco's uair hits (it's mostly right in the middle of his legs), and then just work on hitting the opponent with both the first and second hitboxes. Often times they will DI the first hit left or right and there isn't much you can do if you're jumping straight up at them. If not, you might be waiting too long so that they fall through your uair hitting the first hitbox but missing the second. It's most common with fast fallers, obviously.
Powershield grab: SDI the laser, PS it back, or don't shoot, DJ after the SH to avoid the situation, waveland back, or spotdodge/roll after landing from the SH to avoid being punished. Not sure how much of this works but I just thought it up off the top of my head and it feels like good options mostly. Some of these depend of how certain you are that he will PS into grab.
Grounded laser game: Shoot him and lock him down. See how he reacts to lasers. If he runs in, shoot at a spacing you are safe at or kick him. If he stands in place, take your space and apply pressure(doesn't have to be direct). If he shields, same as last. If he takes lasers but doesn't shield, see if he's spamming Ftilt or WD'ing after taking the laser. Punish lag accordingly lol.
unknown522
Some guy
ninja'd by PP.
what an honor
Wow, KK said a lot of similar things that you said almost word for word over the phone last night about the match.
giovannig22311
Smash Journeyman
so i shine WD and dash WD so i keep going i dont wanta shffl i want to be able to chase them after shine like wavedashing towards them and Dair /uair to keep combos going
Especially the "do what unknown said" part I bet. =p
For real though your advice was good haha.
KK and I apparently are the same person. I've always wanted to be cute.
D
Deleted member
Guest
i like falco in teams a lot sort of a heartbreaker when top notch falcoes go fox (some exceptions)
I find it hard to see what advantages Falco has over Fox in teams, but I also haven't thought about it enough. I'm waiting for my NWM teams videos to go up and I'm going to check them out and decide whether it's worth sticking to Falco in teams or not, but I'm pretty sure I'll keep him around for at least another major because I have a few ideas/strategies I want to test anyway.
I really don't want to switch but if I can't milk any real advantages from Falco I don't want to hold my team back lol.
I really don't want to switch but if I can't milk any real advantages from Falco I don't want to hold my team back lol.
giovannig22311
Smash Journeyman
also PP i canT wait to meet you and see ur falco in person at FC i hope to learn from you and get destroyed in friendlys lol
unknown522
Some guy
haha, especially the 'do what unknown said' part.
jk, but thanks man.
Also for the doubles discussion, I love this one part from this set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Qi5AzBooM#t=3m11s
It's kinda old, but I also don't really have much footage of my falco in general.
Edit: oh yeah, this exists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T7Lzaqbbi0#t=4m03s
FrootLoop
Smash Lord
LE: I played him a bit in falco sheik after the tourney and once I stopped shooting mindlessly like matt said it became really obvious when he was gonna try to powershield and it was def not safe. just gotta stay near him without messing up and giving him free reactionary grabs
edit:
also for teams, I like fox more cuz falco's combos involve going above their partner a lot and if their partner isn't locked down then the combo can backfire really easily. The exception is FD because I think things separate into 1v1s more easily and I can sort of launch people and just wait for them to come back down since there's no platforms to escape to. Fox feels more solid about getting hits without giving up position.
edit:
also for teams, I like fox more cuz falco's combos involve going above their partner a lot and if their partner isn't locked down then the combo can backfire really easily. The exception is FD because I think things separate into 1v1s more easily and I can sort of launch people and just wait for them to come back down since there's no platforms to escape to. Fox feels more solid about getting hits without giving up position.
Little England
Smash Master
Note taken! Thanks man. 
unknown522
Some guy
Rubyiris:
There’s not really that much to say. You were looking pretty good in these matches and do most of what a falco needs to do IMO. You just need to refine your play more. Also, probably grab.
Timestamps:
Game 1:
Pretty solid play in the beginning.
0:50 – You should’ve u-tilted instead of that second shine during your combo. Despite that, your combo could’ve went a bit longer even with the shine
0:59 – that shine -> waveland -> grab was a pretty good mixup. Still, I think you should’ve went for a second shine
1:11 – That phantasm seemed like a bad idea. Since he was in the air when you grabbed the ledge then LHDL would’ve been great
1:14 – That LWD was great
1:23 – that missed edgeguard…
1:45 – a phantasm would’ve been better than firebird to recover with there. Based off where he was standing you could’ve done:
• Sweetspot (d-tilt would’ve missed)
• Shorten at sweetspot height (once again d-tilt would’ve missed, but if he still walked forward and f-smashed then you may have gotten hit. [I highly doubt it though])
• Shorten in between platform height and sweetspot height (d-tilt would’ve missed again, but if he walked forward and f-smashed like he did, then it may have hit you. No guarantee though)
• Platform edgecancel (you would go over him and probably avoid all his grounded moves)
• Straight at him (high enough to go over a d-tilt)
You could’ve also just done a phantasm without the shine stall a second time. You would’ve definitely made it back.
1:59 – I like that you retreated to the ledge. It was a pretty good decision. Since he was so close though, you could’ve LH d-air to hit him instead of going for the LHDL.
2:04 – wow that DI…Also the missed edgeguard. You probably know that you should’ve b-air’d
2:08 – If you didn’t roll there, then you could’ve CC/shielded that run off f-air that he did. He had already jumped before you rolled
2:11 – after sidestepping that f-smash, dash attack was one of the worst options for you to choose at that percent (CC is gay). Almost anything else would’ve been a better choice.
2:13 – CC/shield that b-air
2:15 – same comment
2:17 – I knew that shine would miss. Watch out for that stuff. That would’ve been a good time to dash attack or something.
2:35 – sadly, the shorten got you killed. Still, that was good on his part I guess. If you phantasm’d again, I think you would’ve either landed on the cloud, or edgecancel’d off it
2:46 – I knew that shine was gonna miss cuz you undershot the n-air. You have to watch out for that
2:51 – CC that second f-air
2:55 – wow, he got mindgamed so hard. If he had waited on the stage you would’ve been 100% screwed because you went low. It worked out anyway so w/e
2:57 – not sure what you were trying to do there. You probably could’ve killed him with d-air -> d-air cuz he missed the tech
2:59 – you could’ve laser’d him when it looked like he was going for the ledge. Assuming the laser hit, then you could’ve screwed him over with an f-tilt, or dash attack
3:16 – you could’ve f-tilted him after he slid off the platform
3:17 – could’ve spiked him since he was going for the sweetspot
3:20 – I assume that was an accident
3:33 – I assume the f-air was a mistake
3:38 – should’ve b-air’d for the edgeguard
3:43 – the jab got you punished there
3:49 – why up-smash?
4:02 – something cool that you could’ve done is tilt forward while shielding so that the u-air would knock you off the platform. Then you could’ve d-air’d him
End of the match: You just missed moves. Not much to be said.
Game 2:
Again, fairly solid from the start. There’s not a lot to say again. You also didn’t let the PSing get to you.
5:12 – you could’ve made it back if you DI’d the neutral-b better, then phantasm’d immediately
5:33 – If only you didn’t roll again after he missed the first f-air
5:39 – The DI on that tipper…
5:59 – That wasn’t a good time to do the marth killer. He was way too close to the stage. N-air auto beats that strategy. Still, since he went low then you could’ve probably spiked him
On the rest of the stock, you keep missing moves and missing l-cancels + doing high aerials
6:46 – CC, since you missed the laser.
6:49 – shine after the laser
6:54 – shine oos instead of d-air oos
Ending notes:
Again, there wasn’t a whole lot to say. A lot of things you just miss. All these small mistakes or mis-judgements add up to your loss. I guess you can try to DD a bit more and use more grabs.
Whoo man, that took a long time to write up.
Anyways, hope that helps.
There’s not really that much to say. You were looking pretty good in these matches and do most of what a falco needs to do IMO. You just need to refine your play more. Also, probably grab.
Timestamps:
Game 1:
Pretty solid play in the beginning.
0:50 – You should’ve u-tilted instead of that second shine during your combo. Despite that, your combo could’ve went a bit longer even with the shine
0:59 – that shine -> waveland -> grab was a pretty good mixup. Still, I think you should’ve went for a second shine
1:11 – That phantasm seemed like a bad idea. Since he was in the air when you grabbed the ledge then LHDL would’ve been great
1:14 – That LWD was great
1:23 – that missed edgeguard…
1:45 – a phantasm would’ve been better than firebird to recover with there. Based off where he was standing you could’ve done:
• Sweetspot (d-tilt would’ve missed)
• Shorten at sweetspot height (once again d-tilt would’ve missed, but if he still walked forward and f-smashed then you may have gotten hit. [I highly doubt it though])
• Shorten in between platform height and sweetspot height (d-tilt would’ve missed again, but if he walked forward and f-smashed like he did, then it may have hit you. No guarantee though)
• Platform edgecancel (you would go over him and probably avoid all his grounded moves)
• Straight at him (high enough to go over a d-tilt)
You could’ve also just done a phantasm without the shine stall a second time. You would’ve definitely made it back.
1:59 – I like that you retreated to the ledge. It was a pretty good decision. Since he was so close though, you could’ve LH d-air to hit him instead of going for the LHDL.
2:04 – wow that DI…Also the missed edgeguard. You probably know that you should’ve b-air’d
2:08 – If you didn’t roll there, then you could’ve CC/shielded that run off f-air that he did. He had already jumped before you rolled
2:11 – after sidestepping that f-smash, dash attack was one of the worst options for you to choose at that percent (CC is gay). Almost anything else would’ve been a better choice.
2:13 – CC/shield that b-air
2:15 – same comment
2:17 – I knew that shine would miss. Watch out for that stuff. That would’ve been a good time to dash attack or something.
2:35 – sadly, the shorten got you killed. Still, that was good on his part I guess. If you phantasm’d again, I think you would’ve either landed on the cloud, or edgecancel’d off it
2:46 – I knew that shine was gonna miss cuz you undershot the n-air. You have to watch out for that
2:51 – CC that second f-air
2:55 – wow, he got mindgamed so hard. If he had waited on the stage you would’ve been 100% screwed because you went low. It worked out anyway so w/e
2:57 – not sure what you were trying to do there. You probably could’ve killed him with d-air -> d-air cuz he missed the tech
2:59 – you could’ve laser’d him when it looked like he was going for the ledge. Assuming the laser hit, then you could’ve screwed him over with an f-tilt, or dash attack
3:16 – you could’ve f-tilted him after he slid off the platform
3:17 – could’ve spiked him since he was going for the sweetspot
3:20 – I assume that was an accident
3:33 – I assume the f-air was a mistake
3:38 – should’ve b-air’d for the edgeguard
3:43 – the jab got you punished there
3:49 – why up-smash?
4:02 – something cool that you could’ve done is tilt forward while shielding so that the u-air would knock you off the platform. Then you could’ve d-air’d him
End of the match: You just missed moves. Not much to be said.
Game 2:
Again, fairly solid from the start. There’s not a lot to say again. You also didn’t let the PSing get to you.
5:12 – you could’ve made it back if you DI’d the neutral-b better, then phantasm’d immediately
5:33 – If only you didn’t roll again after he missed the first f-air
5:39 – The DI on that tipper…
5:59 – That wasn’t a good time to do the marth killer. He was way too close to the stage. N-air auto beats that strategy. Still, since he went low then you could’ve probably spiked him
On the rest of the stock, you keep missing moves and missing l-cancels + doing high aerials
6:46 – CC, since you missed the laser.
6:49 – shine after the laser
6:54 – shine oos instead of d-air oos
Ending notes:
Again, there wasn’t a whole lot to say. A lot of things you just miss. All these small mistakes or mis-judgements add up to your loss. I guess you can try to DD a bit more and use more grabs.
Whoo man, that took a long time to write up.
Anyways, hope that helps.
unknown522
Some guy
really? That's one of the things I love about falco in doubles and also why I think he's good.
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Ahhh, ****. I was actually serious haha
D
Deleted member
Guest
kevin, i want you to watch this with respect to our 3 or 4 hour conversation. look at his positioning and use of dari, bair, laser, and how much each of them is used and when. maybe seeing it will give you a better idea of the crap i was throwing at you with no context. if you think of something when you see it, feel free to text me and we can have at it.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
How do you think I feel using DK
Bones0
Smash Legend
I meant SHFFL at them before they hit the ground. If you want to just stay on the ground and shine them again, just run after the WD. You don't need to WD again.so i shine WD and dash WD so i keep going i dont wanta shffl i want to be able to chase them after shine like wavedashing towards them and Dair /uair to keep combos going
Meneks
Smash Lord
Thats pretty much all it is, wavedash towards you opponent(depending on where they DI)so i shine WD and dash WD so i keep going i dont wanta shffl i want to be able to chase them after shine like wavedashing towards them and Dair /uair to keep combos going
and attack with a move of your choice.
Depending on how long your wavedash is and if the opponent has good DI or not you won't have to dash towards them so your free to do another aerial or uptilt or whatever.
I think you got confused and added a second wavedash, its more like
Shine -> wavedash -> run forward -> dair/nair/uair/bair. depending on the knockback you can either shine again or do another aerial or whatever you seem is most efficient depending on the situation
AIM/PM me if you want an actual answer please.
Yeah I was just thinking about that haha. I'll open the video and get to work on it today. =p
Everyone has advantages in teams, I was just being weird because....well I do that sometimes. Character loyalty has surprising benefits in the interesting things one uncovers/uses.How do you think I feel using DK
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Unknown and pp are awesome. I just wish I had the time to really practice what you guys suggested.
unknown522
Some guy
Ah. I understand
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Could you give me some.suggestions for when grab would have been a plausible option?
TheSaudiMizer
Smash Journeyman
I think the main advantage of character loyalty is that you are mentally accustomed to playing the character and can unconsciously react to situations better.