Pro Impact BI-WEEKLIES - Calgary, AB

[Infil]

I notice the lag everywhere, regardless of how slight. On the character select screen, while playing a match... I have to adjust what I do in almost every circumstance. Then again, I've honed my ability to notice timing issues. Years of music games have allowed me to recognize timing differences down to 5 milliseconds or less. For example, I can tell when a DDR song is offsync by one-onehundredth of a second. It actually affects me. I can compensate for it, but it affects me.

And Fox Machine, yes, some things like that are easy to do. Things that have a prescribed motion (such as wavedashing) are not affected, because the input from your controller will reach the screen eventually, and wavedashing relies not on watching your character. However, sweet spotting a ledge while playing Mario WILL be affected, because you must rely on visual cues provided by the TV, not tactile cues provided by your muscle memory.

If HDTV lag doesn't affect you guys as much as it affects me, then that can only really be a good thing for you. Maybe I'm just cursed.

 

[Fox Machine]

You are surely right about sweet spotting Infil. Dying from a failed sweetspotted Side B is no fun I tell ya.
It is strange how the lag effects everyone differently. Most people, who dont regularly play on HDTV should notice the lag. I mean we are playing competitively, so frames count (although Randall said that with the new component cables, it is reduced to just 5 frames, which may or may not be noticeable). Guys like Randall and Mich, who regularly play on the HD set, play just as well on a conventional TV. This is understandable because getting those 5 frames back wont make a whole lot of difference. What confuses me is Chad, who, assuming he normally plays on a non-HD set, is blissfully unaware of the difference. It could have something to do with his being a Peach player.
Chad, I tried out your Peach as a counter to Mich's ICs, but my inexperience playing Peach really did not help at all. And last time I was in Calgary you asked if I had gotten better, because you pretty much owned me at a previous bi-weekly. Actually I think your Peach has vastly improved, because I remember the first time we played it was on the friendlies TV and I won by 3 stock.

@Infil:
You said that you goto the UofC right? My buddy Jeremy (aka DJT) also goes there. What year are you in?
Also, you said that you play Third Strike. Do you happen to play at the arcade in the MacEwan Center? I used to go there every week or two, but I didnt play that much. No I was never really good at any of the Capcom fighters, and I think I only played 3S once or twice. I did play some very basic MvC2, but was never good enough to compete with any of the regulars there. But yeah good players are fun to watch, especially good 3S players. I just think that the press forward to parry thing is nuts, but you probably don't think too highly of it at all hah.
Anyway, its a shame I didn't get to meet you when I was in town. Hopefully we'll get to play each other when I'm in Calgary for the summer and working at the UofC.

 

[kithkin]

yeah there ya go, thats exactly right.

and gary, i dont know my exact placing here and there, got second at the latest bi-weeklie, but randall will post the specs later.

and at red deer i dont know what i placed, probably not as well as i made it seem, but more what i think was good what how i put up a fight for edmonton, rather than getting owned completely.

 

[BackItch]

I think my lack of noticeing the lag has EVERYTHING to do with the fact I play as Peach.

I'm not a very fast player. I hate playing as Fox or Falco because my fingers can't keep up to thier movements. I've tried to learn to wavedash, but the precise timing required is still beyond me... I am by no means a technical player. Heck. I rarely C-Stick with a character that argueably stands to gain the most from it! I prefer, instead, to rely on spacing, priority, and an unbalanced down-smash.

Thanks for saying that I've improved, tho! Everytime I play these guys, I learn a little something extra.

I just need to learn that "little something extra" vs. Sheik... >.>

 

[Ermine]

I don't know if you guys could tell... but my lack of never playing a decent IC or C. Falcon kinda screwed me over X_X... I did not no what tactics to use or what... especially IC... I probably could have gone with Pika had I felt confident with my knowledge of ICs... X_X

Oh well... Still losing 4 games in a row pissed me off a little X_X... I almost had 2 of em as well X_X

 

[Bizzareo]

i definitely did learn something :D look at me i can fly!i can fly! too bad my peach isnt as aerial as ithc's. oh well. HOORAY4 BYES :D gonna have too practice some. Oh and i beat the hell out of ermine at street fighter after we left! PSYCHIC CHAMELEON .

Oh yea and justice has been served... very much served on a big golden tub. JUSTICE FOR ALL! ERMINE LOSES HOORAY!

 

[Ermine]

Stop being a ****, bizz -.-... I said earlier I was looking for someone who could beat me and thus I found out I need to practice against characters in which I have not found stratgies to use. IE Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon... Also, you are one to talk considering you lost all 4 of your matches and then got a chance to play 2 more and lost those as well....

PS! He did not beat me in streetfighter... He beat me the first round and then I beat him the next but my dad came so we couldent do a third... X_X

Anyways I got what I was hoping for out on sunday I just wish I hadent dropped the last 4 games X_X... Especially when I could have won 2 of them.

 

[xpiritflare]

The HDTV really screws me up. I notice I make more mistakes than usual, and I cannot play fox on that tv. In other words, I'm much better on normal tv's.

Chad, after those friendlies and watching some of your other matches, I definitely notice some things you could work on and I did say I would help you.

1. Rolling at bad times, actually, this affects more than 50% of the people there. It seems when you are by the edge, you'll roll towards the center if someone goes after you. (This is where, if you are playing me, I'll punish you for doing that more often than not)
2. Predictable dash attacks. I don't know if it's just bad timing or whatever. But when you're facing me, I'll have shield grabbed you. Change it up, dashdance, grab, do an aerial attack, run up to them and down smash, etc.
3. Shield more often.

Edit: For #1, there are other times too where you have a bad roll. I just listed an example.
Edit2: For #2, what I mean by aerial attack is of course while floating, either slightly above or on ground level. (Float cancelling is gg here)

 

[Infil]

Yeah, I go to the U of C. I'm doing my Masters in computer science there right now, Fox Machine. And yeah, I regularly go to the Cove arcade and play 3rd Strike. I'm one of the regulars there you probably watched with amazement. I like to parry a lot, so my matches are usually fun to watch. Tell your friend I'm the tall blonde kid with glasses, though I don't go too often anymore (my projects are becoming more time-consuming). If I do these days, it's usually on Tuesday or Thursday at around 12:30.

If anyone wants to see how 3S is played, or just play Smash against me, we could try for sometime this week... Wednesday might be the best day for me this week. You don't have to come all the way out to my place if it's inconvenient, but that would require someone else hosting.

 

[Ermine]

Oh yea I forgot to ask... Anything I need to work on... I don't know if anyone knows anything I could do for Pikachu but I know my Marth needs a bit of work X_X or maybe its just my lack of not having experience against people as good as I or maybe a bit better X_X

Another thing I noticed is that my Yoshi is WAY better than I thought he was... Maybe I should make him into a 3rd main but maybe I should not X_X...

 

[MARIOWNAGE]

Awaiting Randall's hilarious and witty response...

Kevin: JC Up smash with pika, it's broken. Ledge attack when people are recoverying just over the edge send them back for a cheapy tailspike. I pay attention to Sid =P

 

[Ermine]

Ummm and also what happens with the recorded matches?

 

[MARIOWNAGE]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=89137&page=1
You go there, and request a match in the thread via posting. You should probably describe the match, when I request without describing; Randall ignores it.

My edit post function isn't working but with marth aerial -> grab

 

[Ermine]

Thats one thing I don't do nearly enough if anyone noticed X_X... I need to grab more -.-...

I would say thats the main reason I lost the winner semi final match... I was never grabbing the C. Falcon when I could X_X

 

[kithkin]

ahahahaha, dont beat yourself up, johns the best there i'd say, expecsially once you get mich and chad out of the way.

i'm surprised i beat him in a set though. but i think everyone is surprised by how well i was doing.

and also, randall posts a highlight reel and results. i just think he's been too busy to do them as of yet.

 

[Fox Machine]

Randall's absence, 'tis strange =/
I will try to guess the top 5 based on the info I've been given:
1. John
2. Brad
3. Levi
4. Ermine (aka Kevin?)
5. mach5

Of course I'm assuming that John just ***** everyone and the CF that Ermine played in the semifinals was Levi's. But wait, where's Chad and Mich? Without them this seems all wrong....

Ermine, if you want some tips I would agree with Levi to learn from Sid (aka lemonlau36 aka Neptune Eclipse). He plays a "turtler" Pikachu very effectively. Even if that isn't your style you could incorporate something into your own game. I've noticed he has a very good ledge game. It consists of using ledgehopped Uair's to spike recovering opponents or to generally repel opponents with its priority. The times where he goes on the offensive its usually with a Nair followed by Dsmash. If the Nair is blocked or evaded the Dsmash has the ability to interrupt a counterattack.
Watch the highlights #6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVy2okjlai8
It shows some of the tactics I described. As well, you can watch me get owned by Chad and PKT.

 

[BackItch]

Thanks for the advice, John!

Yah, the constant rolling is a throwback from my Smash64 days. :/

I know my Peach is very dash-attack happy. I tend to fall-back into Roll/Dash-Attack mode when I'm forced out of my comfort-zone. It makes for alot of shield-grabs... Randall would get me with them ALL the time. I have to focus a bit more and not lose control of my stratagies.

And shielding more? I thought I shielded too much! One thing I should learn is using a light shield for when I'm getting spammed. I always all-or-nothing my shield, and it drains quick...

Thanks! :D

One tip I'll give the rest of 'ya...

If you're knocked down, and on the floor, examine your options. There's not many, so chose wisely.

You can:

1. Roll left
2. Roll right
3. Get up
4. Get up with an attack

Many times, I'll stand close enough so the back-end of my D-Smash will hit you if you try and roll towards me. I'm also close enough to dash-attack if you decide to get up with an attack, yet far enough away for you to miss.
Already, you're down to two options. Examine them as the situation dictates and chose wisely.

Rolling towards someone who's expecting you is never a good idea. Some of 'ya do it quite often.

And yah, Ermine... nobody expects someone to be good at the IceClimbers. It really does blow people away to see how effectice they (or just a single one!) can be in the hands of a pro like Mitch.

 

[kithkin]

yeah mich is very talented.

and good guessing gary. but you assumed right with chad and mich. its more like

1. John
2. Myself
3. Chad
4. Mich
5. Ermine

i think...

 

[Ermine]

Wait... I thought the Captain Falcon I lost to was John's? Or maybe I just have names messed up X_X

 

[kithkin]

nono, you're right, and i forgot to correct him.

it was johns, although lev is heavy on the C.falcon.

edit: i'm confirming son. 25th, be ready.

 

[MARIOWNAGE]

There is no roll in melee

 

[BackItch]

So... if a delay of a few milliseconds is game-breaking for some people, how the heck do people expect to play Brawl online when lag can be in the hundreds of milliseconds?

If Brawl is indeed online, would people just get used to the lag?

 

[kithkin]

hahaha, they will never get used to it.

...or claim never to

 

[Infil]

Remember, Chad, how online is implemented. Data is sent between Wiis that talks about how the other players are playing (typically sent as keypresses). This is then simulated on your own Wii. Therefore, you will notice no lag with your own movements, but will notice lag from other people's (and consequently, they will notice you lagging). The server tries to correct this by synching up the Wiis every second or so. At least, this is one possible implementation.

Brawl will also have to program an effective "predictive algorithm", which helps decrease lag by simulating how the character will move if no more buttons are pressed and "jumping ahead" (or predicting) where the character would have been. This will help create a more believable situation in the event of intolerable lag.

These are just some of the problems affecting online play. Typically, though, the lag you experience won't be similar to the lag affecting HDTV displays. It's not necessarily more playable, though... it's just a different kind; one that affects everyone else on your screen EXCEPT you.

 

[FastFox]

Brawl = is going to be horrible.

End of story.

 

[kithkin]

brawl will be awesome, but will be nothing like it should. they really screwed up some of the things they added.

 

[BackItch]

Brawl will disapoint if everyone expects it to be the same as Melee.

Coming from Smash64, I didnt like the changes made in Melee. Everything was so different. Moves changed, some characters seems so weak, etc. I ignored Melee and just contiuned to play Smash64 because I found it more fun, since I was used to it.

I expect the same thing to happen when Brawl comes out. If something is done differently than how it was in Melee, people wont like it and rather adapt to the new system, theyll contiune to play Melee, since thats where theyre the most comfortable.

 

[kithkin]

i agree. although i will still love brawl from day 1, as i did melee.

but it will be a longer swap for competitive play in the environment i'm sure.

 

[xpiritflare]

I know my Peach is very dash-attack happy. I tend to fall-back into Roll/Dash-Attack mode when I'm forced out of my comfort-zone. It makes for alot of shield-grabs...

I don't know how useful this would be but, for me, I shield. The worst they can do is grab, if it's a character that can combo from a throw (ex. Sheik down throw into afa) , I DI both the throw and the attack that I'm predicting.

And shielding more? I thought I shielded too much! One thing I should learn is using a light shield for when I'm getting spammed. I always all-or-nothing my shield, and it drains quick...

You just need to put your shield up in certain situations.

 

[MARIOWNAGE]

Guys, I am now a peach main. > : 3

 

[mach5]

be proud because thats the only character where you don't need to know how to do fancy stuff with and can beat me

 

[kithkin]

what happened to yoshi?

edit: Brad isnt fancy

 

[nitro-blazer]

Guys, I am now a peach main. > : 3

YAY!

/ten

 

[MARIOWNAGE]

be proud because thats the only character where you don't need to know how to do fancy stuff with and can beat me

Depends which concepts you consider fancy. Do fancy things throw you off? Or are you saying peach isn't fancy? By no means was the switch becuase of you, I've got like a million other counter picks. If you didn't know. I never did beat you with peach nor would I expect to do so.

 

[nitro-blazer]

I'm not sure if Levi is serious or not now...

 

[Infil]

Those who want Brawl to suck will have it suck. Those who want Brawl to be awesome will find it awesome.

Chad is right. Those who expect Brawl to be Melee with just a few new characters will be very disappointed. We all want a new game, and they'll give us one. It will be no less competitive than Melee, but it WILL be different. If you accept this, you may even find yourself able to like it.

I think the early stages of a game's release are the most tournament-friendly, actually! Everyone is having a blast deciding the tier lists, playing new characters, and busting out strategies no one has ever seen before. Four years after the game is released, all the Marths look the same, because they all try to follow Ken's general strategy. I'd say a month after the game is released, you'll be seeing some incredible tournament matches. Sure, they'll look n00bish in a few years, but they'll be tons of fun.

People won't give up Melee right away, I guess, but I probably will. I just want to get involved with Brawl and get good at the game that will be the new standard.

 

[Fox Machine]

On rolling: Excessive rolling is bad. It's less bad for some chars that have quick rolls like Peach or Ganondorf, but that still doesn't make it good. E.g. that clip of Peach getting falcon punched by Carl.

And thanks for the tip Chad. I'll make sure to always roll away from you.
But seriously I think which way to tech is more of an issue. And you seem pretty good at tech chasing when I techroll away from you. So maybe I'll go the other way next time...or maybe not

All this talk about Brawl, but there aren't many positive predictions about it. Anyone notice in the trailers Mario's tornado works like it did in SSB64? Or that there are smoke trails like in 64? while the graphics and the general speed is similar to Melee's. So maybe, just maybe, it'll be a happy medium between 64 and Melee and everyone will enjoy it and be satisfied.

 

[Infil]

To be honest, I have no idea why there aren't more positive predictions about Brawl. It looks to be the extension of Melee everyone wanted.

The fact that some fans are audacious enough to be negative about Brawl from 5 seconds of trailer footage more than a year before the game is released is beyond me. The first trailer was still clearly using the Melee engine, since the game hadn't been in development for more than a few months! They slow down some random scene frame-by-frame, make some (probably entirely wrong) conclusion, and write off Brawl as the child that will ruin the franchise. I just wish we could make people sign contracts to enforce their childish opinions. "If wavedashing isn't in Brawl, I will boycott it." Care to sign on the dotted line?

Give Nintendo a chance to make a NEW game that will be even (gasp) better than Melee was. It's entirely ******** to insinuate Nintendo is incapable of doing so, and it frustrates me greatly.

Okay, end rant.

------------------------------

Instead of a double post, I'll edit.

Is anyone wanting to get together on Wednesday of this week? No one has to come all the way out to my place since it's inconvenient, but someone else will have to be willing to host instead then. Maybe some of the new guys want to play some Smash or try out 3S or Guitar Hero or something. I'll drive to somebody's place if it's in the south. If no one can make it or no one can host, that's cool. We'll just try another week. But I'm just testing interest.

 

[kithkin]

well they did annouce crawling which i think is stupid.

but i definately want to smash but i dont know if i can. i'll get back to you on that.

 

[Stevo]

I wish I could crawl in melee.... crawl under falco lasers more specifically lol