Project M Social Thread

[Sanity's_Theif]

It also makes him a bigger target, thus easier to combo, which is one of the major weaknesses that he suffers from. His range and the size of his hitboxes are fine, there is no need for that change.

Though his range in increased in equivalence to his hitbox sizes right? So it's not an advantage or disadvantage to have him bigger, just a change.

I don't think the change is necessary. Not changing the size of his hitboxes or his range just makes the game look weird when attacks that should work given his size whiff instead. If his hitboxes and range did match his new size then Ganondorf would just be godly in the right hands. In addition I think that making him a bigger target is unnecessary. It seems to be a nerf rather than a buff to me and I don't think that Ganondorf has shown any reason outside of theorysmash to be nerfed.

Don't the hotboxes increase as his size does? Rather it was that I let his Brawl size stay like what was done with Bowser, and for Bowser it didn't change much from what I can see. I don't think the change is necessary, I just though it would be nice to have Ganondorf be his true size.

 

[Kink-Link5]

The hitboxes shouldn't change just because his hurtboxes do, but it might depend on how the resizing was done.

 

[SpiderMad]

Ganon's hurtboxes are more compacted while using Fair that he can miss lasers that would of normally hit.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

Don't the hotboxes increase as his size does? Rather it was that I let his Brawl size stay like what was done with Bowser, and for Bowser it didn't change much from what I can see. I don't think the change is necessary, I just though it would be nice to have Ganondorf be his true size.

No, they don't. The attributes for hit and hurtboxes are in a separate file from what you used to increase his size (assuming you changed it using animations). As for what you said about it being nice to have Ganondorf at his true size, I suppose I agree but by the same token it'd be nice to have a version of his moveset that isn't a modified Captain Falcon, but we all know stuff like that isn't the aim of the project.

 

[tekkie]

Is the hack used to make the name list scroll faster part of a custom CSS or is there a simpler code somewhere?

 

[standardtoaster]

The faster name scroll is part of the codeset.

 

[tekkie]

Yeah but is it its own standalone code that you could implement with any other hacks?

 

[Strong Badam]

Don't know why you'd play any other codeset than Project M, so it shouldn't be a problem.

i made no suggestions to you.

i would at least like some challenge, someone to prove me wrong, something.

"ike is too good"
"but he's really exploitable for reasons XYZ"
"but ike is really really good"

yeah

Max, I respect you a lot, but this seems kind of contradictory for someone that constantly stresses that the Melee tier list needs to be based off of tournament results. I realize that Ike has legitimately exploitable weaknesses (we kind of designed him that way?), but tournament results all point to Ike being a very good character, something you should be swearing up and down to be fact by now after previous interactions with you in the MBR. Sup bro?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

Hi everybody.

 

[Onomanic]

EDIT:

Hi everybody.

Holy crap, it's Gimpyfish.

 

[MaxThunder]

No, they don't. The attributes for hit and hurtboxes are in a separate file from what you used to increase his size (assuming you changed it using animations). As for what you said about it being nice to have Ganondorf at his true size, I suppose I agree but by the same token it'd be nice to have a version of his moveset that isn't a modified Captain Falcon, but we all know stuff like that isn't the aim of the project.

if he use the size attribute in PSA, though... then he would get more range on attacks from making him bigger...

 

[Strong Badam]

Hitboxes do not scale with model size. Hurtboxes do. Changing his model size makes him a worse character and is not condoned at all, and you're no longer playing Project M if you do.

 

[tekkie]

Is there an actual Gecko code to speed up the name menu or is it a part of something else?

 

[pwned-by-the-poob]

Have you guys considered giving Samus her ssb64 dair and bair? Those 2 things alone would make her WAY better in my opinion. And on that note, what have you guys been planning with samus in general?

 

[DrinkingFood]

If you don't mind me speaking in response since umbreon hasn't,, Strong Bad, I'd say that melee tournament results more accurately reflect tier listings given an 11 year old metagame than the 4 month old metagame of Project:M. It's like saying Sheik (in melee) deserved nerfs when she was top for so long because other characters weren't being played to their potential.
Should also be noted that Ike is the most popular character in the demo according to the player finder thread on smashmods. So in a well balanced game, he's almost guaranteed to win more tournaments than anybody else due to sheer likelihood of of being picked up by a talented, dedicated player.

 

[leelue]

I disagree when people make a close connection to early melee and early pm. For the obvious reason that early melee didn't have a decade of melee to base itself on.

I see what you're getting at, but it is off the mark

 

[DrinkingFood]

But Ike has no history to base himself off of, and because of that, no character has a history of the matchup with him. He might as well be equivalent to early melee. At best, he's starting out at the point of having all technical abilities discovered and usable, which for many characters, including sheik, was something that occurred in early Melee metagame.

 

[Onomanic]

But Ike has no history to base himself off of, and because of that, no character has a history of the matchup with him. He might as well be equivalent to early melee. At best, he's starting out at the point of having all technical abilities discovered and usable, something which for many characters, including sheik, was something that occurred in early Melee metagame.

I was thinking the exact same thing. The P:M metagame is so young and includes these characters and I think that Ike's success is based a good amount in experience with the match up. There was no Ike in Melee, after all.

 

[metroid1117]

Should also be noted that Ike is the most popular character in the demo according to the player finder thread on smashmods. So in a well balanced game, he's almost guaranteed to win more tournaments than anybody else due to sheer likelihood of of being picked up by a talented, dedicated player.

I'd just like to point out that the last time the OP was edited was on April 21st; he may have been one of the most popular characters when Demo 2 came out, but whether he remains as such is unclear unless someone wants to go through the entire list and figure it out.

Also, I'd like to point out that tournament results are not quite as accurate as they should be since most people seem to be deviating from their Melee mains (i.e. not Fox/Falco). There's a big lack of good spacies in Project M, and I believe that once it gets entirely "Meleefied," we'll see more Fox and Falco mains from Melee take top spots again. However, they are the primary source of data that we have for the game in terms of testing for balance; while they should certainly be taken with a grain of salt, I don't think they should be entirely ignored, either.

 

[iLink]

I hate Ike because he feels so noob friendly to use and I have to play pretty gay to put him in his place.

With that said, I'm taking up Toonlink.

 

[DrinkingFood]

That's another good point, metroid (about the spacies). I guess what we are trying to do is more like pleading with PMBR to not go jumping the gun on Ike, because there are so many reasons that the tournament results could be skewed in relation to how the game could develop.

@X iLink
Maybe the Ike player is actually good and you're actually just bad
Just get better

 

[Onomanic]

On topic of the metagame, does anyone believe that Fox/Falco could be knocked down from their top spots? I could see it happen, I'm not sure from who though.

 

[hotdogturtle]

omg guys major SSB4 news

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=142187

 

[DrinkingFood]

God ****ing damnit
Aaargh
****ing ****.
I'm on my ****ty 200mb 3G connection and can't afford to waste this pathetic amount of data I get but not being able to watch the video is ****ing killing me
I just want to find out if somebody is ****ing trolling us and whether or not I should let the dream die.

 

[Onomanic]

God ****ing damnit
Aaargh
****ing ****.
I'm on my ****ty 200mb 3G connection and can't afford to waste this pathetic amount of data I get but not being able to watch the video is ****ing killing me
I just want to find out if somebody is ****ing trolling us and whether or not I should let the dream die.

They showed project M or something, judging by the comments. Nothing to worry about.

EDIT: Watched it, confirmed it was P:M.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Oh I see. Turns out the guy was just ****ing ******** and thought the project M gameplay on the IGN article was SSB4. Nothing to see here, except Sakurai claiming he has three "perfectly successful games to work from" giving me the idea that he may lean toward brawl mechanics in addition to melee mechanics...

 

[leelue]

But his link to 64 smash will be the removal of airdodging

 

[MonkUnit]

There's an ssb4 forum section for this type of discussion.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Glad to see no part any discussion has moved forward since I was last on.

 

[pwned-by-the-poob]

I had a constructive comment a couple hours ago that was never answered -_-

Have you guys considered giving Samus her ssb64 dair and bair? Those 2 things alone would make her WAY better in my opinion and would be enough to have her balanced. And on that note, what have you guys been planning with samus in general?

 

[Strong Badam]

We do not answer every suggestion, we cannot possibly be expected to do so. We read this thread, and it will probably be considered. That's all I can say.

 

[DMG]

Her Dair being that fast sounds like a no-no.

 

[Deleted member]

Max, I respect you a lot, but this seems kind of contradictory for someone that constantly stresses that the Melee tier list needs to be based off of tournament results. I realize that Ike has legitimately exploitable weaknesses (we kind of designed him that way?), but tournament results all point to Ike being a very good character, something you should be swearing up and down to be fact by now after previous interactions with you in the MBR. Sup bro?

1. I presented my viewpoint, about which I wanted to talk about with an audience rather than at one.
2. I don't know any of the tournament results for this game because
3. The character I like to play got destroyed by the nerfbat.

So in the absence of tournament results, I can only base my opinion off of my personal encounters.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Her Dair being that fast sounds like a no-no.

Falco doesn't seem to mind.

 

[JCaesar]

Falco also can't float leisurely offstage waiting to intercept someone and then recover from anywhere.

1. I presented my viewpoint, about which I wanted to talk about with an audience rather than at one.
2. I don't know any of the tournament results for this game because
3. The character I like to play got destroyed by the nerfbat.

So in the absence of tournament results, I can only base my opinion off of my personal encounters.

If you'd like to do some research before presenting your opinion, here are all the tournament results since the demo was released (beginning at post #8).

 

[Kink-Link5]

Theorysmash 3: The Return of Theorysmash. Coming to theatres this Thanksgiving.

 

[Archangel]

1. I presented my viewpoint, about which I wanted to talk about with an audience rather than at one.
2. I don't know any of the tournament results for this game because
3. The character I like to play got destroyed by the nerfbat.

So in the absence of tournament results, I can only base my opinion off of my personal encounters.

you really should join smashmods and follow what's going on in the project M community before making declarative posts like you have been.

You say Ike sucks and Sheik got destroyed by the Nerfbat and it makes it seem like you don't know what you are talking about.

Sheik is very good. Aside from certain Physics changes Sheik is just as good as she was in melee and if you have good read and mix-up Bthrow and Dthrow then Sheik actually feels buffed after awhile Especially when you consider the fact that she has another high tier attached to her.

Ike has a weakness, everyone else in the game has a weakness. If some of his hitboxes will be changed to be less lulzy, or his Fsmash remains a move that can kill as early as a rest from puff, and his Neut-b still keeps it's super armor then Ike should have no problems going forward as longs as good and smart players continue to use him.

Not to mention...I'm pretty sure he's got more #1 and top 3-5 placings than any character so far Not saying this will continue but it's enough so far to suggest that he's at the very least above average.

 

[Strong Badam]

sheik's dthrow/bthrow change is not a buff. you're just wrong if you think that. requiring a read to kill <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< not requiring a read. this is why falcon is not a good character, despite his techchase possibilities; his combos require reads to convert making them strictly worse than reactionary combos.

 

[Kirk]

I just started trying this game not too long ago. I like playing Ike. I'm curious to see what others think of the character...I've been getting complaints from some people I play of him being lolbroken. What are the main causes for concern, generally speaking? I'd like to see how it compares here.

 

[Juushichi]

Falcon is a good character.

Falcon is not a great, amazing, omg auto combos and eeeeee I win character.

Probably the most fair, rewarding good character in the game (Melee), imo.