Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[Toomai]

"Learn more about bones" is a bit too general to me.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Okay, let's see... I'd like to learn about the main bones (I understand this includes TransN?), what exactly a bone root is, and how to interpret bones in relation to hitboxes when reading it in OSA2.

 

[Toomai]

Okay, let's see... I'd like to learn about the main bones (I understand this includes TransN?), what exactly a bone root is, and how to interpret bones in relation to hitboxes when reading it in OSA2.

In Brawl, bones are essentially points. Unlike some other systems of computer animation, bones in Brawl do not have a "length"; you can change the length of a character's arm by changing the position of the elbow and wrist bones. (This is why moveset swaps in Brawl distort character proportions, unlike those in Melee.) Since bones consist of only a point there's not much meaning to the term "root" (unless you're talking of something else).

Generally, main bones include:

• TopN, always the first bone of any character/item/enemy/etc. It is used as the reference point of an object - it's used for landing detection, deciding which side of the object something else is on, and that kind of stuff.
• TransN is used to move characters during animations. Once the animation ends or is interrupted, TopN is relocated to wherever TransN is. Certain action/animation flags have to be set in order for this kind of behaviour to work properly.
• XRotN and YRotN are used to rotate entire characters during animations. XRotN is also the bone that characters are grabbed by, and in general controls how high off the ground the character is.
• HipN is generally the first bone that is "part of" a character. It's often used to ensure the character is at the right height relative to the ground (so XRotN can be kept constant), as well as any other parts of the animation that involve the hip.
• LHaveN and RHaveN (and sometimes just HaveN) are the bones used to hold items and such. Items themselves have a HaveN, which is the bone they are held from.
• ThrowN is the bone that grabbed opponents are attached to, and is also the attachment point for shields and grabbed heavy items. It is always attached to YRotN and is always the last bone of a character.

In terms of hitboxes, each hitbox is attached to a bone. TopN is bone 0, whatever comes next in the character's bone list is bone 1, and so on. Hitboxes are offset relative to the rotation of their bone and rotate (and possibly scale?) as the bone animates. Hitboxes share one value for both ID and bone - a bone/ID of 00280002 means that the hitbox has an ID of 2 and is attached to bone 0x28, or 40 (counting from 0).

Another thing - since bones have no length and characters become distorted by using each others' animations, the animations used for being thrown must ignore positions and only apply their rotations (and scaling?).

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Hm, so then, the hitbox's ID is the last digit in the bone/ID, and the bone is the digit after the zeroes? And what exactly do you mean by "counting from 0"? I just need a bit of clarification on that part, but other than that, the rest was awesome, thanks a ton.

 

[MK26]

its bone 0x28, aka bone 40 in decimal, but since the first bone is 0, 0x28 is actually the character's 41st bone.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Oh, okay. It makes sense now. I didn't know that Toomai meant that it's 40 in decimal. Thanks MK.

 

[WindMajor]

What's up guys

Okay so since I'm not familiar with all these Brawl hacks and tools, I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me what are the tools I need to figure out how many frames can a character walk around in Norfair's lava after powershielding the lava until they get hit again.

Alternatively, if you guys already know the answer, you guys could just tell me and that would be a nice shortcut.

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Toomai]

If you can look around stage hack threads to find the rehit rate of the lava, that would be the answer. Stage/terrain hitboxes are still a bit of an enigma though.

In terms of tools you'd need to figure it out, you'd need a frame-by-frame hack, nothing too special.

 

[WindMajor]

Can you link me to where I might be able to get the FbF hack?

Edit: Wait, found everything I need.

 

[MonkUnit]

Does a stage .rel show the refresh rate of stage hitboxes? Or do you have to test that by hand going frame by frame?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Does a stage .rel show the refresh rate of stage hitboxes? Or do you have to test that by hand going frame by frame?

Send a PM to Amazing Ampharos, he's big on stages and I know he worked on figuring out stage hitboxes for BBrawl.

 

[WindMajor]

Okay so the lava wave on Norfair normally does 18% damage, but in this instance, it did double damage (36%) for both characters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-VyEBcxnRE&t=3m38s

Can anyone explain to me why this happens?

 

[T-block]

Maybe breaking from the grab allows you to be hit again by the lava? So...hit to break, then get hit again?

I have no idea. Have you tried reproducing it?

 

[WindMajor]

Nope, but if that were the case, then Marth would've gotten hit to break, and hit again out of the break, and sent flying. I'm pretty sure it was only one hit, and it even looks that way too.

 

[Toomai]

This is what it looks like to me:

• Wave approaches.
• Marth begins to throw Pikachu.
• Lava wave hits. Marth takes the damage but grab armour prevents knockback. Pikachu takes the damage and is released from the grab.
• Lava wave hits again (don't know why). Marth is still in his 8 frames of grab armour, takes the damage. Pikachu gets hit and sent flying.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

The vid is too low quality to see exactly what happened, anyone have the replay file?

 

[WindMajor]

Okay so here's something different. The same thing happens to ESAM at around 1:28, but this time, with no grab. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKr8-aeiCKE

 

[rPSIvysaur]

What are the correct inputs for a true pivot f-tilt?

 

[Yikarur]

controlstick left | controlstick right | tilting stick + A! :D

 

[Indigo Jeans]

You'd have to release the control stick after the pivot then tilt otherwise you might end up walking a bit then attacking if you just soften the analogue stick's tilt in one movement. Or at least that's what I do in Melee, true pivots are trickier in Brawl *shrug*

Also yeah, it'd be nice if we could get the replay. <__> Maybe ESAM has it?

 

[Yikarur]

you dash in one direction, then you dash in the other direction, you cancel the turnarround that occurs with tilting.
You don't need to return the controlstick to neutral. (have fun doing this, it's retardly hard - or almost impossible, without T-Sticking)

 

[T-block]

True pivot f-tilt is ridiculous. I can do pivot jabs no probs though =x

 

[DeLux]

Question about tournament terminology:

Is it a "3 stock game" or "3 stock set"?

Is it a "5 game set" or "5 set match" or "5 game Match"?

 

[Yikarur]

3 stock game / match and Bo5 Set.

the problem I have with this terminology is.. when I play Yugi I always say "Set" but what we say to "set" is what they call "match" what we call one game.
stupid =D

 

[Toomai]

Blame tennis, that's where this game/set/match terminology comes from.

 

[T-block]

3 games in a set.
3 matches in a set.

Games = matches.

That's what everyone in my region has always used =x

 

[DeLux]

Oh. Everyone always says they take 2-1 sets in a match online :\
But i always here "took x games in a 5 set match"

We should define it in the STL imo to match tennis

you win 3 sets to win a match

or something like that.

 

[KayLo!]

3 games in a set.
3 matches in a set.

Games = matches.

That's what everyone in my region has always used =x

That's how I've always heard it too.

 

[DeLux]

Usually people here call them 3 stock sets/games and call the entire thing a Match

 

[Yikarur]

but the entire thing is a set.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

but the entire thing is a set.

This. I see it used like that in tourney videos, etc. "Game x in Set x". Like I said, idk about match.

 

[Two-Ell]

Quick question

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeQaVmMOT0s#t=3m18s (watch Peach's jump after the Angel ring)

Does the Angel Ring's wind cause that to happen when someone jumps OoS? Back when I first noticed it someone gave this opinion

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12047674&postcount=1486

I've watched it over and over. I don't believe that to be footstool considering how far Peach was from Pit. I didn't see any sign of the second jump animation either. That was just a full hop. I'm not sure if it's a common thing for Pits. That was my first time seeing it.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Man, I'd look into this but for some reason my Brawl disk stops being read like two minutes after it starts up D:

I might go get a new copy tomorrow, and if nobody's done it by then, I'll try and post a response.

 

[Two-Ell]

Okay, I appreciate your time. I might go to the Pits and ask about it too. It kinda bugged me back when the match was posted, but I kept it in the back of my mind till now.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202057

So how much has been done on this? I heard a whole lot about the whole "increased knockback during charge" thing back in '09 but never really knew how much scientific truth there was to this. If it hasn't been examined too thoroughly, I say we do it. I'm also going to contact the OP to ask what those numbers in the fourth and fifth columns are. I'm assuming it might be that flight distance or w/e value given at the results screen, but I'm not too sure.

 

[Toomai]

I don't see what there is to examine. If the target is in any of the 60 frames of a smash charge animation and it's not Ness's up or down smashes, they will take 1.2x knockback from any hitbox. I've personally confirmed it and I've seen a number in the game's code that is claimed to be the value (1.2, right next to the 1.4 of the fully charged smash damage multiplier).

 

[standardtoaster]

Ness' up and down smashes don't get the extra KB? O_o

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I don't see what there is to examine. If the target is in any of the 60 frames of a smash charge animation and it's not Ness's up or down smashes, they will take 1.2x knockback from any hitbox. I've personally confirmed it and I've seen a number in the game's code that is claimed to be the value (1.2, right next to the 1.4 of the fully charged smash damage multiplier).

Alright, thanks. That's what I was asking, too, if it had been looked into anymore.

standardtoaster, I think it has to do with what causes the yo-yo glitch to happen. The yo-yoes(sp?) must be attached in some different, janky way, that also lets them hang off edges and such.

 

[Toomai]

Most objects are attached to the character directly. The yo-yo, on the other hand, is attached to the string, which is then attached to Ness. I used to think that this two-tier connection was what caused the yo-yo to not charge damage (the theory being that the string doesn't propogate the charge signal), but since the charge interruption bonus is probably coded independently, I'm not sure anymore.

 

[standardtoaster]

I dont play ness. Charging his u/dsmash doesnt increase its damage? Man ness is so weird.