Rematch - A hypothetical remake discussion.

[Dsc]

"Pika thunder"

"Ness-ness!"

.....

 

[th3kuzinator]

ness with pikas recovery would be too good.

Pika with ness recovery would just fail at gimping

 

[ryuu seika]

Name: Donkey Kong
Stage: Kongo Jungle 64
Costumes:
P1 - Brown Fur
P2 - Grey Fur
P3 - Red Fur
P4 - Blue Fur
Party - Party Hat (maybe weird fur too)
Specials
^B - Whirlwind Spin (Works as before)
0B - Strong Punch (Works as before)
vB - Ground Slap (Works like before, except with it making him fall into a stronger version of the move if used in the air)
Air Moves
^a - Backward Overhead Slap (Works as before)
0a - Mini Spin (Works as before)
<a - Back Kick & Flip (Works as before)
>a - Forward Roll (Works as before)
va - Downward Stomp Kick (Works as before)
Ground Moves
^a - Backward Overhead Slap (Works as before)
0a - Two Punch Combo (Works as before)
</>a - Basic Punch (Works as before)
va - Low Slap (Works as before)
^A - Overhead Clap (Works as before)
</>A - Strong Slap (Works as before)
vA - Breakdance Spin (Works as before)
>>A - Awkward Kick (Works as before)
Throws
[R] - Grab (Works as before)
>R - Gorrila Back Ride (Works as before)
<R - Backward Spin Throw (Works as before)
Ledge Moves
0 - Karate Chop (Works as before)
Miscellaneous Fixes
None

 

[Grim Tuesday]

No nerfing kthnx Ryuu.

 

[ryuu seika]

Name: Captain Falcon
Stage: Big Blue (?)
Costumes:
P1 - Falcon Race Suit
P2 - Grey Falcon
P3 - Pink and Purple Falcon
P4 - White and Pink Falcon
Party - Famicom Disguise
Specials
^B - Grab Jump (Works as before)
0B - Falcon Punch (Works as before)
vB - Falcon Kick (Works like before, except with a tiny bit more forward motion)
Air Moves
^a - Backflip Kick (Works as before)
0a - Basic Kick (Works as before)
<a - Backward Spinning Elbow (Works as before)
>a - Twin Spin Kick (Works as before)
va - Downward Stomp Kick (Works as before)
Ground Moves
^a - Overhead Kick (Works as before)
0a - Punch Punch Knee Rapid Punch (Works as before)
</>a - Basic Kick (Works as before)
va - Low Kick (Works as before)
^A - Spinning Elbow Uppercut (Works as before)
</>A - Strong Spin Kick (Works as before)
vA - Low Spin Kick (Works as before)
>>A - Ramming Attack (Works as before)
Throws
[R] - Grab (Works as before)
>R - Downward Throw (Works as before)
<R - Back Kick Throw (Works as before)
Ledge Moves
0 - Small Punch (Works as before)
Miscellaneous Fixes
None

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

the issue is how long it takes ness to actually hit himself and that he is so vulnerable at the end.

Just add heavy armor (lol barlw) or a hitbox when ness is trying to hit himself with Up B (think Lucas from barlw) and/or add the ability for Ness to not be vulnerable after using PK thunder 2 (as in outside of another up b). Due to Ness's good aerials, it would make attacking Ness after he up b's a little less easy as Ness could just d-air (as the hitbox is massive).

He would still have only a moderately good recovery (but still good enough) with this as characters would still be able to hit him while he's up B'ing or just jump into the PK thunder 1.

 

[the cap]

My question is how much would all of this cost? There are many factors in buying the rights to individual games, even for specified personal use.

Factors include:
-Nintendo Intellectual Property rights—Rough estimate for personal use, around 1 mil (restrictions include no reselling on commercial market, just personal consumer use (around 1000 copies of new game))

-Hiring original programmers and developers to remake the game (sticking to the original game, add 12 more characters, and a few more levels)—around 200k, after everything (roughly 3- 5 months of work)

-R & D-20K - 50k

-Overall if we somehow got Nintendo to remake the original copy of the greatest game on earth, to add more characters, but keep the games physics preserved, along with keeping all the characters even (no tiers) it would be priceless

If anyone has any ideas, how to make a boat load of money to make this possible, I am all ears. Also add more factors if you can think of some

 

[ryuu seika]

R&D costs go down if the roster is planned out by fans instead but yeah, it's still a massively expensive process, hence why it is all thusfar hypothetical.
Costs also go up if we want anyone who isn't Nintendo, such as the ever popular Megaman. While debatably worth it, I suspect that getting Microsoft to part with Banjo would atleast double the costs.

The trick would be to get some games company (preferably someone Nitendo affiliated to cut down on those costs) to realise that such a remake might not actually be bad for profits.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Upon reflection I really like the amount of characters and their balance in smash64.

The only thing I would add are more neutral stages. (Honestly the current GS battlefield and Final Destination would suffice). If those stages became legit tourney stages, I would be content.

 

[Sempiternity]

Yeah, really my only gripe with the game as it is is that there is not a single stage that doesn't have **** flying around, screwing things up.

 

[Peek~]

eff new characters

Id just add escapeable grabtechs.
Like the second you get latched in a grabbed, Press R + Back. You'll separate CvS2 style

 

[Surri-Sama]

didn't soul caliber have a grab escape tech too?

I dont remember exactly how you did it, haven't played the game in to many years

 

[Korrupshen]

If there was a remake

1. I would like aerial grabs, since ssb had no air dodge. It wouldn't hurt much.
2. More neutral stages. (Gimmick-less)
3. A actual up-throw and down-throw
4. Being able to have timer and stock on.

 

[Fireblaster]

I do not agree with having a grab tech. Grabbing should be that one move that is guaranteed to work if used at close range on an opponent not doing some invincible move. A grab tech would make grabs useless for the most part.

 

[Sempiternity]

Maybe tone down the grabs a little bit, perhaps? That, or cap the knockback at certain percentages so grabs aren't as strong as a smash attack.

 

[The Star King]

Tools are supposed to make a job easier, right? Then why do Link, Samus, and Yoshi using tools for their grabs make their grab WORSE than normal grabs? I think that they should have the option to press neutral R and do a "normal" grab, and maybe forward + R to do their extended grabs. That way, their use of tools simply gives them more options instead of hindering their grab.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Maybe tone down the grabs a little bit, perhaps? That, or cap the knockback at certain percentages so grabs aren't as strong as a smash attack.

not even a little bit, i absoulutley love the fact mario's back throw kills.

it makes sense, really, he whips a 1000 pound koopa around like it's nothing, he should be able to whip around a meager fox like a cannister.

now, CERTAIN GRABS, shouldn't be able to kill.

most characters back throws are very strong, in fact, if not all.

i think you can tone down fthrow grabs and to be honest, i don't like dgrabs and ugrabs.

but if you were to add dgrabs and ugrabs, tone those down too.

@Star i think i agree with that. i think it reminds of how in other fighting games there is a light kick, heavy kick, punch etc. i'm not sure if that should happen though, it would really take out the reason smash is a special fighting game.

@korrupshen Aeiral grabs would be cool, i could even see them becoming gimps and aeiral combo setups but i think they would be abused and too broken. once again, if you implement all this crap into a possible remake, you're taking out what made smash grand.

oh, and add faster pivoting;pivot grabs ftw.

jee, i contradict myself alot.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Tools are supposed to make a job easier, right? Then why do Link, Samus, and Yoshi using tools for their grabs make their grab WORSE than normal grabs? I think that they should have the option to press neutral R and do a "normal" grab, and maybe forward + R to do their extended grabs. That way, their use of tools simply gives them more options instead of hindering their grab.

and that is why these characters are terrible characters

 

[ryuu seika]

didn't soul caliber have a grab escape tech too?
I dont remember exactly how you did it, haven't played the game in to many years

SC had two types of grab per character, one with A and one with B, which were escaped by using the same buttons. Unfortunately, in the most recent games they now allow you to mash both buttons to escape any throw but the new third throw, which is unstoppable but requires crazy button combos to get any good damage out of.
SC's grab escaped worked because it required you to guess which grab they were using to escape it. SSB may have multiple throws but doesn't have multiple grabs and it doesn't make sense escaping mid throw. SSB could not have grab escapes without either making throws useless at a tournament level or reworking the entire throwing system, neither of which seems like a good option.

Rather than having a "tools" grab and regular grab with different buttons, why not just make the "tools" grab replace the regular when out of range? Much simpler.
Dthrows and Uthrows may or may not be a worthwhile addition, I don't know. Nor do I know whether toning down throws is good or not. If you are going to tone down all but the Bthrow though, make the Bthrow slower so it's more punnishable in casual free-for-all and teams games.
Ariel grabs sound broken.

You people keep saying "add more non-gimmicky neutral stages" but, other than the classic FD and Battlefield and possibly the less original "Small" (Kirby Beta 1), what stages (from other smash games or your own mind) do you think would help achieve this goal?

 

[The Star King]

and that is why these characters are terrible characters

It baffles me that a Yoshi main is saying this.

 

[SmasherLink]

Super Smash Bros. 64 Upgraded

Upgraded, meaning new version of Super Smash Bros. 64.

In the new version the entire game will be upgraded with more characters, more stages, more modes, better graphics and the SMASH BALL.

Sakurai did plan more characters, stages, graphics, and the Smash Ball, but due to the short memory back in 1999, he only had a few things to cover, and that is why we, the people of Smash World Forums will do this favor for him and HAL Lab.

Now, the characters that we are going to put in:

Peach
Meowth
Bowser
Marth
Sonic
Axel
Wario
Sora
Lucas
Mewtwo
Young Link
Simon Belmont

Stages:

Realm of Nothingness
Twilight Town
Castle Oblivion
Wario Ware Inc.
Castlevania
Forest Temple
Castle Seige
Flying Battery Zone

 

[dandan]

we are going to put in, we are going to make, what are you talking about :S
hate to burst your bubble, but there is a reason this thread has hypothetical in the title.

edit: also, who are axel and sora (maybe i need to play more games)

 

[DMoogle]

we are going to put in, we are going to make, what are you talking about :S
hate to burst your bubble, but there is a reason this thread has hypothetical in the title.

Actually, he started his own thread. I moved it to here...

 

[dandan]

Actually, he started his own thread. I moved it to here...

then i have to say i failed,
however, it makes this post way more inexplicable.

 

[th3kuzinator]

slink is always doing new stuff on his own. Creating fake tier lists etc. Just gets annoying after awhile

 

[Korrupshen]

we are going to put in, we are going to make, what are you talking about :S
hate to burst your bubble, but there is a reason this thread has hypothetical in the title.

edit: also, who are axel and sora (maybe i need to play more games)

Kingdom Hearts......and yes u do need to play more games LOL.

Kingdom Hearts series is a must play

 

[ryuu seika]

SMASH BALL.

Eww!

Peach, Marth

Don't see why not.

Meowth

Could work or could be horrible.

Bowser

Should have been in in the first place.

Sonic

As long as he's done better than in Brawl, has a decent UpB this time and doesn't have his homing attack as it wouldn't fit in with the time of SSB64. I don't think he's useable really.

Axel, Sora

Too recent and, from what I've seen of them, not particularly good interms of smash moveset.

Wario

Seems unnesicery...

Lucas

Ness clone.

Mewtwo

Don't see why not, seeing as he was a good character and originally intended for SSB64.

Young Link

Link clone but certainly possible.

Simon Belmont

Don't know him.

Realm of Nothingness
Twilight Town
Castle Oblivion
Flying Battery Zone
Castlevania
Forest Temple

Don't know.

Wario Ware Inc.

Not convinced.

Castle Seige

Please no!

 

[felipe_9595]

eww!



Don't see why not.



Could work or could be horrible.



Should have been in in the first place.



As long as he's done better than in brawl, has a decent upb this time and doesn't have his homing attack as it wouldn't fit in with the time of ssb64. I don't think he's useable really.



Too recent and, from what i've seen of them, not particularly good interms of smash moveset.



Seems unnesicery...



Ness clone.



Don't see why not, seeing as he was a good character and originally intended for ssb64.



Link clone but certainly possible.



don't know him.



don't know.



Not convinced.



Please no!

have you ever played something called castlevania d: ??????????????????

 

[Battlecow]

I'd like FD & BF w/o LoD's.

also other random neutral ideas-

a relatively large (not hyrule big, but maybe 3/4 the size) stage with two largeish platforms (bigger than DL/BF ones) 1/3 and 2/3 of the way across. Flat, of course. Add a theme from a game and you're done.

a YS deal with reasonable boundaries and no clouds

Really, we're not looking for anything fancy or original. Just some flat, mid-sized stages with a platform or two thrown in somewhere, and no gimmicks or ledges of death.

 

[ryuu seika]

Name: Ness
Stage: Onett (?)
Costumes:
P1 - Normal Attire
P2 - Yellow and Grey Attire
P3 - Yellow, Blue and Pink Attire
P4 - Orange and Green Clothes
Party - (?)
Specials
^B - PK Thunder (Works like before but needs some fixes to the recovery aspect which noone can agree on)
0B - PK Fire (Works as before)
vB - PK Flash (I haven't a clue what this does so...)
Air Moves
^a - Headbutt Flip (Works as before)
0a - Split Kick (Works as before)
<a - Back Kick & Flip (Works as before)
>a - Forward Shove (Works as before)
va - Downward Kick (Works as before)
Ground Moves
^a - Up Shove (Works as before)
0a - Punch Headbutt Kick (Works as before)
</>a - Forward Kick (Works as before)
va - Low Kick (Works as before)
^A - Overhead Yoyo (Works as before)
</>A - Home Run (Works as before)
vA - All Around Yoyo (Works as before)
>>A - Strong Shove (Works as before)
Throws
[R] - Grab (Works as before)
>R - Forward Psi-Shove (Works as before)
<R - Backward Overhead Psi-Shove (Works as before)
Ledge Moves
0 - Rising Headbutt (Works as before)
Miscellaneous Fixes
None

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

metal mario's stage is way too small :S

That's what would make it great, but there should def be the Master Hand stage and the stage from how to play ^_^

 

[th3kuzinator]

The "how to play" stage has a lot of flaws. Specifically with the camera that does not zoom out nearly enough when someone gets knocked off stage. Also the horizontal blast lines are ridiculously close.

If we are arguing about Dreamland being too small, what are we even thinking about letting metal mario's stage be viable?

 

[Surri-Sama]

battleground has the same issue. Plus its edges are kinda odd...I cant explain it exactly but i hate them xD

 

[th3kuzinator]

Yeah but it has no wind.

I know there was a hack awhile ago to remove the tree from Dreamland. I think this would be 10x fair because of the ledges. Ness' recovery would be screwed up by battlefield.

Pros of taking away win:
-All the shenanigans associated with being pushed off the edge just to be fsmashed
-Jigglypuff being pushed and and falling to her doom after a rest.
-Disrupts some edgeguarding by accidentally pushing the edgeuarder off the edge/makes them edgehog by accident.

Cons:
-No Wind Taunt Cancel.

 

[dandan]

the wind is such less of a factor than nados on hyrule though, i have no problem with leaving it on (and the no wind cheat has been out for ages).

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Do you have the no tornado cheat?

I should probably supply that sometime.

 

[dandan]

Do you have the no tornado cheat?

I should probably supply that sometime.

actually it is the same cheat for me, it is called tourney cheat on my cheat file and stops the wind on dreamland and the tornadoes on hyrule.

i can give you a link to my cheat file or my entire emu folder if you want (it has preset glide plugin, which is just great), just pm me.

 

[ryuu seika]

That's what would make [Metal Mario's Stage] great

Yeah, I guess. Not every added stage need be tournament viable after all.

but there should def be the Master Hand stage and the stage from how to play ^_^

How to play is just a worse version of Dreamland so no thanks. "Master Hand stage" is called Final Destination and has already been suggested and liked by all. FD would be a definite inclusion, were such a remke ever made.

As for removing parts of Dreamland, that's what makes the stage unique (well, that and the great music). I am of the opinion that tournament viability needs to be balanced alongside stage oiginality and throwbacks to the source material and thus I think that, as the wind is not that problematic, it should be kept.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ness clone.

Lucas isn't a Ness clone. lrn2playbawrl.

 

[Battlecow]

LoD's= Ledges of death, the main problem with Battlefield (BF) and Final Destination (FD). They basically take away ledge DI as an option and f--- up some people's recoveries (Ness', for example, as if his could get any worse.) As they are, I'd call both stages tournament legal; counterpick, at least, if not neutral. Without those stupid ledges I'd call them both neutral for sure; they'd be my go-to stages in every match. I would be... so... happy...

Really, I think that nerfing Kirby's Utilt is the only really necessary modification, along with maybe Pika's Fsmash hanging for a shorter time (half as many frames, say). I like gimping pika's Up-B too much to see it go.