Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[DMurr]

Except that I doubt Sakurai is interested in a Namco Bandai rep. Not once has Sakurai spoken about the potential of a Namco Bandai rep.

A couple Namco Bandai employees have spoken about it, though. In particular, about Tales characters and Tekken characters.

 

[N3ON]

not sure about 5 pokemon, or palutena. im assuming that namco will get a 3rd party rep, but i would also want megaman. i prefer paper mario over bowser jr (sorry N3ON) aaaand thats about it haha

EDIT AGAIN: i replaced Toon Link with Ghirahim because of the similar art style of Skyward Sword and the toon games. part of Toon Link and Twilight Link in brawl was the difference in art styles. There isnt much of a difference between SS and the Toon games, so as much as i love Toon Link, i feel like it wouldnt be a bad idea to replace him

That's actually a pretty decent roster.
There are a few things I think are unlikely to happen, but all the newcomers chosen (with the possible exception of Lloyd) I feel have a decent shot of being included (though some of course more than others).

The only few things I find unlikely to happen are the inclusion of Ghirahim over Toon Link (if Link and Young Link can both get in and have the same art style (as they were from the same game) then characters like SS Link and Toon Link have no problem both being included. Even if their art style is similar, the characters themselves are very different, both aethetically, personality-wise, and mechanically. Plus I doubt Sakurai uses similar art styles as points against a character.), the inclusion of all three blonde-haired swordsmen (not that any of them are unlikely or poor candidates, nor would they play anything like each other, but none of them are top priority for addition, and it's very likely that Sakurai would choose characters over them, and in the end only 1/2 would end up being included), and the inclusion of Lloyd (he's a fine Namco rep, and has more popularity than other Tales characters, but even as a Namco character, nothing really makes him stand out compared to other 3rd parties. Not that he's an impossible choice, just IMO an unlikely one).

Other than that it's a perfectly fine roster. I have no problem with the inclusion of Paper Mario, he would be a great character totally unique from regular Mario, and has fair popularity, I just think that even though he's got a pretty good shot, some other Mario characters are more likely. But I wouldn't be surprised if he was included.

I would stick with Palutena too. She's not a "shoo-in" or anything, but I think her chances are pretty good, better than most other potential candidates. And I'm almost positive we'll get 5 Pokemon reps this time around, I just don't know who will get in out of Mewtwo, Lucario, and Zoroark (it could be two of them or even all three). Mewtwo definitely has the best chance, but nothing's a guarantee.

A couple Namco Bandai employees have spoken about it, though. In particular, about Tales characters and Tekken characters.

Yeah, but they said they would be leaving it up to Sakurai, who as of yet still hasn't made any comments indicating interest in a Namco character.

 

[Tunsie]

Would Zael from The Last Story count as a third party character?

 

[yani]

I recall hearing Nintendo owns TLS. Not sure though.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Hey people I have some GOOD NEWS here:

http://mynintendonews.com/2012/08/20/next-super-smash-bros-games-will-include-new-characters/

This break some comments that Sakurai said that new chacacters will not happen in SSB4

P.S: I'm trying to find the roster maker, someone could help me?

 

[BKupa666]

As if they needed to be broken down for all non-fools...

A more telling tidbit that can be derived from this is that the developers are, in fact, working on movesets, rather than lingering in the planning phases, not having decided on the roster yet.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey people I have some GOOD NEWS here:

http://mynintendonews.com/2012/08/20/next-super-smash-bros-games-will-include-new-characters/

This break some comments that Sakurai said that new chacacters will not happen in SSB4

P.S: I'm trying to find the roster maker, someone could help me?

Of course this was going to happen. Too bad people think that we won't see an increase, but then again, we're not there to tell them that.

(goes to remedy that)

Also, you should look up Jakor's blog on the blog post. That should help out and it should be on the first page of user blog forum.

A more telling tidbit that can be derived from this is that the developers are, in fact, working on movesets, rather than lingering in the planning phases, not having decided on the roster yet.

Glad to see the roster has finally been decided.

Which means nothing else from later on is going to have a better chance than they already would have, barring third-party additions/last-minute additions.

Now I have that massive analysis to work on.

 

[---]

It's not really news, just more of an update to show that part of, if not the entire roster has already been decided, and that they're still in the process of developing characters.

Going to start betting that we won't get anything from the next Nintendo Direct (which I was already starting to bet, this just strenghtens it).


Kinda makes me laugh at how I once said earlier in this thread that Sakurai wouldn't need a poll for this game. lol

 

[Ghirahilda]

I really hope that they show something about smash this year! I don't want to wait for the next E3!!!

 

[N3ON]

Hey people I have some GOOD NEWS here:

http://mynintendonews.com/2012/08/20/next-super-smash-bros-games-will-include-new-characters/

This break some comments that Sakurai said that new chacacters will not happen in SSB4

This is sort of obvious, but it'll be good for the stupid people that thought there wouldn't be a single newcomer. It's also nice to see that development is moving at a rather good pace, perhaps we might get something shown before E3? I'm not going to get my hopes up, but it doesn't sound like an impossibility.

Also nice to know that the roster seems to already be sorted for the most part, like people above said.

It might just be me not remembering, but it seems this time Sakurai is talking more about SSB4 in development than he was talking about Brawl in development, which is good if true.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

no more clones, calling it now.

 

[N3ON]

no more clones, calling it now.

That's what people said about Brawl. I'm sure we'll still have at least a few semi-clones.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

no more clones, calling it now.

Luigi would like to have a word with you.

 

[N3ON]

If Luigi keeps going on the luigified path he's on, by SSB4 he might be unique enough to not be classified as a semi-clone. In Brawl he was already alot more different from the original character than most other semi-clones.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd say that Wolf, Lucas, and Luigi have potential to be completely unique. That'd give me a reason to play as Lucas...

 

[Robert of Normandy]

no more clones, calling it now.

Oh dear god, I hope not. Do not take Toonie away from me.

I'd say that Wolf, Lucas, and Luigi have potential to be completely unique. That'd give me a reason to play as Lucas...

Wolf isn't a clone at all now. And Luigi doesn't need to be de-cloned any more than he is right now.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Wolf's specials are still identical to Fox's though, even if they have different effects.

 

[BKupa666]

Never doubt Sakurai's penchant for adding clones, Luigified or otherwise, until the final roster is revealed.

Why people started believing Brawl would have no clones, I have no clue, but it is important to remember that clones don't actually take up roster space from original characters. Instead, they insert a new character where there wouldn't be a new character otherwise. Though most of their movesets don't do justice to the character, at least they can allow an awesome character to exist in Smash, with the possibility of gaining original moves in sequels half a decade later.

 

[N3ON]

Without Sakurai's penchant for adding clones, Ganondorf would probably have an original moveset (though he wouldn't have been included until Brawl).

And I don't have a problem with clones, like BKupa said without them we wouldn't be able to play as some awesome characters that I now take for granted in Smash. I didn't much like them in Melee though, they seemed like unnecessary copies (at least to me), but since the ones that weren't cut got differentiated in Brawl, I don't mind them, and even support the addition of them if it means we get more interesting characters (assuming they'd be semi-clones and not direct ones). Again, like BKupa said, it's not like they take a spot away from an original character.

As for them in SSB4, I very much doubt we'll be rid of them, quite a few have gained popularity and I doubt Sakurai would cut them at this point. We might even see the return of one previously cut (hopefully luigified this time around). Even though the amount of newcomers will probably decease compared to past titles, I'm still betting we'll get at least one or two new semi-clones (Medusa, Black Shadow, Dark Samus, Bowser Jr, etc come to mind -- though even characters like Krystal, Krom, and Dixie Kong could be made semi-clones).

 

[Deleted member]

I personally hope that with the exception of Roy that there are no more semi-clones introduced. Personally, I would rather have ten unique newcomers (of ones I like of course) than fill up on semi-clones for the sake of expanding the roster and add five semi-clones to the roster.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

I personally hope that with the exception of Roy that there are no more semi-clones introduced. Personally, I would rather have ten unique newcomers (of ones I like of course) than fill up on semi-clones for the sake of expanding the roster and add five semi-clones to the roster.

I'm trying to think of viable characters who could be turned into part clone, or full on clone...

Not a lot comes to mind.

I mean look at top contenders: K. Rool, Ridley, Little Mac... they're all supremely new that can't really take from another character.

I think the only one, and its a STRETCH, is Palutena taking from Zelda or even Black Shadow taking from Cptn. Falcon/Ganondorf.

Even if Palutena is added, I highly doubt she'd be a clone of Zelda. But I'm saying the slight "cloning" possibility is there. Other than those two, many popular newcomers are pretty much "Non-Clone" material.

EDIT: and Like N3ON said, if Palutena got in, Sakurai could pull a "Wolf" with Medusa if he wanted.

 

[N3ON]

Personally I would prefer to have 10 newcomers with unique movesets that I like instead of buffing up the roster too, but even not including Roy I'm guessing we'll get one or two new semi-clones (though 5 I very much doubt). The precedent of Sakurai buffing up the roster has already been set, so unless he feels that the roster is fine before the addition of clones (which is a possibility, but based on his past actions, not a probability), we'll probably see some.

This time I'm not as character hungry as I have been, and I would be fine if less than a dozen new characters were added (provided I liked one or two of them), with a few being semi-clones, as long as the original ones out-numbered them, and the semi-clones weren't just Melee-type direct copies (which they won't be). Plus Sakurai only added 2/3 semi-clones in Brawl compared to ~15 new movesets, so if that ratio stays around the same, I don't think an abundance of new clones will be much of a problem.

EDIT:
@Onyx
Yeah, most of the likely candidates would be hard-pressed to be made into clones, and almost certainly would be unique. I doubt characters such as Ridley, K. Rool, Little Mac, Takamaru, Toad, Waluigi, Isaac, Saki, Shulk, Goroh, Ghirahim, Zoroark, Starfy, Mii, Megaman, etc. could easily be made into clones. Even characters that are technically possible like Palutena, Krom, Krystal, Dixie, and Bowser Jr. I very much doubt would be clones if included.

 

[JPW]

I see Goroh having similar moves to Wario in a few ways. He wont have the Waft but i could see them having the same side b, grab and such.

 

[N3ON]

I see Goroh having similar moves to Wario in a few ways. He wont have the Waft but i could see them having the same side b, grab and such.

You can see Goroh getting in a motorcycle and driving around as his side b? If anybody else had to have Wario's side b, I would guess it would be Mach Rider over Goroh.

Honestly, I don't see Goroh playing much like Wario at all. Maaaybe Waluigi would have a few similar to Wario, but other than that I think the mix of Wario's moveset being so crazy and unique to him, and his odd body proportions would make it very difficult for anyone else to share most of his moves. If you can see it though, great! You must be more creative than me.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Why people started believing Brawl would have no clones, I have no clue

If I recall rightly, it was a misinterpretation of something Sakurai said in an interview which ended up getting horrendously over stated and exaggerated. I can't quite remember what he said, but he alluded to how he didn't want a repeat of Melee where he added so many clone characters, which some chose to believe meant he wanted no clones at all and spread it around like gospel.

A similar thing happened in regards to female characters having their chances over exaggerated, based on a comment made by Sakurai where he mentioned how he recognized Smash had few female characters so was happy to add ZSS to the roster. This was interpreted by some that Sakurai wanted to add more females than just ZSS, so other female characters were seen as likelier additions because of this.

This time around it seems that one interview where Sakurai contemplates that they may have potentially reached the limit of the roster size is getting grossly misunderstood and spread, with people literally thinking the roster won't increase in size at all. First we had sites thinking that there wouldn't be any newcomers at all, though with Sakurai'a newest comment about making new moves for new characters people are now choosing to interpret it as though there will be newcomers, but that there will be a lot of cut veterans to make room for them.

I really feel bad for Sakurai, he really can't say anything without it being incredibly over analysed and ultimately horribly misconstrued to fit individuals own expectations on how the game should be.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Wolf's specials are still identical to Fox's though, even if they have different effects.

Only his blaster and reflector, but those two are so wildly different form what Fox/Falco use that they barely count. His Up-B is NOTHING like Fox or Falco's, and neither is his side-B. Also, he shares very few normals with the space animals.

 

[Spire]

I personally hope that with the exception of Roy that there are no more semi-clones introduced. Personally, I would rather have ten unique newcomers (of ones I like of course) than fill up on semi-clones for the sake of expanding the roster and add five semi-clones to the roster.

Dude, you know Roy will not be returning. He was thrown in Melee to further promote FE as it was. He was replaced with Ike to futher promote FE as it was. FE is evolving further, so Ike might too be replaced. If he's not, Chrom or another new lord will get in, not ROY.

 

[Bomber7]

I'm really hopping for another pokemon trainer. I know it seems silly to ask for the second generation team due to pokemon B/W 2 coming out soon, but I'd love to kick butt with one of totadile's evolutions. No matter what generation they wind up giving us, if they give us a PT, I will play them. I like the idea of having 3 characters in one to master, having the various play styles to learn, etc. Though above all else, NO FATIGUE PLEASE!

I overall expect them to have at bare minimum the cast from Smash 64. Those are the faces of Nintendo practically, it'd be a pretty empty smash game without them imo.

I'm also hoping Link goes back to his badassery he had in Smash 64, imo, it was his best, mainly because of the hit box and mechanics on his bombs.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

I overall expect them to have at bare minimum the cast from Smash 64. Those are the faces of Nintendo practically, it'd be a pretty empty smash game without them imo.
P

At the bare minimum, I expect absolutely no franchises to be cut, along with their respective "Main" Character.

Like for example:
:mariobrawl: :falconbrawl: itbrawl: :olimarbrawl: :kirbybrawl:

So for this reason I'm absolutely expecting the return of: :gwbrawl: :robbrawl: :icsbrawl: :nessbrawl:

The only exception to this is the Third Parties. :\ Until I see either Sonic or Snake, I can't be expecting them or their franchises. They're a bit of a mystery right now. Although Sakurai's high approval of them in his "Willy-Nilly" comments about 3rd parties helps the optimism

 

[Deleted member]

Dude, you know Roy will not be returning. He was thrown in Melee to further promote FE as it was. He was replaced with Ike to futher promote FE as it was. FE is evolving further, so Ike might too be replaced. If he's not, Chrom or another new lord will get in, not ROY.

Lol, people still blindly believe that Ike replaced Roy.

I envy their ignorance.

 

[Spire]

Lol even though Roy was one of the forbidden seven, that's what happened. Roy will return if Dr. Mario and Pichu return.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Lol, people still blindly believe that Ike replaced Roy.

I envy their ignorance.

People think that because Ike have just ONE MOVE similiar to Roy's Flare Blade. But yeah I duno sometimes.

Still, it's true that Roy was in melee to promote Fire Emblem, but Roy is the second Melee veteran that people want back, only losing to Mewtwo. Also, did Sakurai said that he will do everythin in his power to bring older chacacters? I don't remember where I read that...whatever...I duno again. LOL

EDIT: I remembered!!!

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/39403/sakurai-wants-to-bring-old-characters-back-to-smash-bros-wii-u-and-3ds/

 

[Deleted member]

Lol even though Roy was one of the forbidden seven, that's what happened. Roy will return if Dr. Mario and Pichu return.

Oh, that's what absolutely happend with no chance of being completely false, huh?

Hmm. Must be nice to be a part of Brawl's development team and know everything that went on.

I mean, surely there's no way that Roy was cut for time issues like Mewtwo was. Nope. No siree.
That unused file for his own victory theme that every character except Wolf has? It obviously belongs to Ike. Yep, that's right. Ike has two. Since Ike replaced him.
Roy having data in the first place? A clear sign he was replaced. I'm sure that Young Link and Pichu were never meant to be replaced; that's why they have no data.
And while we're at it, it's clear that Lucario replaced Mewtwo. After all, they have similar Neutral Specials and Forward Smashes, both have somewhat similar body types, and can talk. Face it, Mewtwo was too irrelevant, so they replaced him. He ain't coming back. He will only return when Roy, Pichu, and Dr. Mario return.

 

[Spire]

The very fact that Roy didn't make the cut for Brawl signifies how important he is. Ike had priority over Roy. What will happen when Ike doesn't make the cut for SSB4, with his files unfinished and hidden in the code as well? What happens when Chrom makes it in, Ike is stuck in limbo, and Roy is nowhere to be found?

More arguing on smashboards. Relevancy is important, as you pointed out with Mewtwo. Roy is irrelevant now. Sure, he'll appear as DLC in FE: Awakening, but according to the rule of Ike, a main FE protagonist is more likely to get in for the sake of evolving both FE and Smash Bros. Now, if three FE characters are to appear in SSB4, it would most likely be Marth, Chrom, and Roy.

Edit: Goddamn, we need Lyn for the sake of females.

 

[Deleted member]

@Spire: And this is coming from the same person who doubts King K. Rool being in Smash.

Also, you seriously overestimate how important relevance is. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of this community does.

 

[Spire]

Because you're one of those Sakurai scholars who scrutinizes his every word to most accurately predict SSB4's roster, yeah? That's what you do primarily with your time, right?

If relevance was not important, Lucario would not have been in Brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

The very fact that Roy didn't make the cut for Brawl signifies how important he is. Ike had priority over Roy. What will happen when Ike doesn't make the cut for SSB4, with his files unfinished and hidden in the code as well? What happens when Chrom makes it in, Ike is stuck in limbo, and Roy is nowhere to be found?

More arguing on smashboards. Relevancy is important, as you pointed out with Mewtwo. Roy is irrelevant now. Sure, he'll appear as DLC in FE: Awakening, but according to the rule of Ike, a main FE protagonist is more likely to get in for the sake of evolving both FE and Smash Bros. Now, if three FE characters are to appear in SSB4, it would most likely be Marth, Chrom, and Roy.

You talk as if it is going to happen. So not only are you part of Brawl's development team, you are an oracle too? Just digging yourself a deeper hole.

Oh, and what's this? You actually beleive relevancy is important? Go back to Gamefaqs, kid. I'm pretty sure they'll buy that bologna.
I mean, it explains why the likes of Ness, Jigglypuff, Sheik, Ice Climbers, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, etc. were axed from Brawl, and why we didn't get characters lke Pit, Pokemon Trainer Red, R.O.B., etc.

Even funnier is that you believe Roy and Ike got in because they were the latest Lords. This is false. Roy got in prior to his debut in his own series, so on technicality, he wasn't the latest Lord. He pretty much didn't exist yet. Roy was chosen to promote the upcoming game, and according to Sakurai, to "promote the Fire Emblem series as a whole".
Ike got in because Sakurai wanted a newer (note: not newEST) Fire Emblem character, which meant that he wanted a character simply that debuted after Roy's game. Which there were 4 games to choose from. He went to Intelligent Systems for a suggestion, and they suggested Ike, likely having to do with his popularity (especially in the West), as well as him being in multiple titles like fellow Fire Emblem hero Marth. If the newEST character had been picked, it would have been Micaiah, as she was the newest main character as Ike had debuted in the game that came before hers. (Also, if it mattered by relevancy, why is Ike in his PoR version rather than RD?)

If relevance was not important, Lucario would not have been in Brawl.

Except we can't attribute relevance to Lucario's inclusion.

Contrary to what you may beleive, being from Gen 2 did NOT help Pichu.
In fact, Sakurai had been on record in Famitsu saying that he did not find any of the popular 2nd Gens to be "feasible", despite what fans might think (i.e. fans wanting someone like Scizor or Heracross, who both could work very well).
He only went with Pichu because was an easy clone character to add to boost the Roster (somewhere along the line, he felt the roster was lacking, so he made the 6 clones we know today), and be a joke character with it hurting itself when it uses electrical attacks. He could have used Raichu instead, but he felt Pichu added more of a charm and made a good joke.

Lucario was clearly a feasible Pokemon, was hugely popular, heavily advertised (even prior to the debut of the Generation it came from), and could offer something unique with it's Aura.
If relevancy was the big issue, we would have had someone like Deoxys instead of the Pokemon Trainer, due to Emerald coming after FireRed/LeafGreen, and Deoxy's movie being right before Lucario's. It also had great popularity (Sakurai comments on this on the Dojo update). So Deoxys exclusion was not because of relevancy, but because Sakurai must have not deemed Deoxys feasible with it's shifting between modes.

 

[Deleted member]

Please delete this double post.

 

[---]

Because you're one of those Sakurai scholars who scrutinizes his every word to most accurately predict SSB4's roster, yeah? That's what you do primarily with your time, right?

You do realize you're talking to some people who have been doing speculation for this game since after Brawl came out? Any shame (that you're trying to make us feel) for how we're spending our time on SWF died a long time ago.

We're not saying we're Sakurai's disciples nor that we know everything that will happen with this game before it happens (although we have been pretty close so far, onlying missing NB's involvement), however, you could learn a lot about Sakurai's development style if you pay attention.


Won't lie, we do have a money bet about the roster going on in our on-going social groups though.

 

[Deleted member]

You do realize you're talking to some people who have been doing speculation for this game since after Brawl came out? Any shame (that you're trying to make us feel) for how we're spending our time on SWF died a long time ago.

We're not saying we're Sakurai's disciples nor that we know everything that will happen with this game before it happens (although we have been pretty close so far, onlying missing NB's involvement), however, you could learn a lot about Sakurai's development style if you pay attention.


Won't lie, we do have a money bet about the roster going on in our on-going social groups though.

For some reason, I was thinking of this theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJbEV3OcaGU
While you, SSBF, and I were doing a swag walk with black suits and shades like Agent J and Agent K did in the opening to the show when I read that.
Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiJBClyFa9k