Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise

[Black Mantis]

How many tournaments have you been to? Knowing about competitive smash doesn't mean you read the forums, it means you go to the tournaments, know the community and know the game(s). You might know as much about competitive BRAWL as Corey, but there's no ****ing way you know as much about competitive smash in general. He's hosted tournaments, he knows the community, he's been here for two years.

Not trying to sound like an *******, but unless you've been to **** near every tourny since you signed up at smashboards you don't know as much about competitive smash as Corey.

Just because I joined this site in 2008 doesn't mean I haven't been doing anything related to the community since 2008. Hell I'm already about to host another tournament. Its only NC though.

 

[Black Mantis]

Like I said if Sakurai saw this crap he would be ashamed of American gamers.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Just because I joined this site in 2008 doesn't mean I haven't been doing anything related to the community since 2008. Hell I'm already about to host another tournament. Its only NC though.

No offense, but if it's a bunch of no-name local-yocals that you are hosting (re: Your immediate friends) then it's not really as substantial as you make it out to be. There's a reason why people go on to this site and advertise their tourneys.

But I suppose this is where everybody starts out, huh?

Edit: And get off Sakurai's c0ck, man. Seriously. All he cared about was making a game that targeted the Wii's general audience; we, the competitive community, are disappointed that **** turned out this way.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Dark Sonic]

There are also a few people like me who stick to Brawl because they live in remote areas and can't play Melee with anyone good without at least an hour's drive.

An hour drive is hardly a reason. I took a plane to ****ing Maryland (I live in florida) and spent 3 nights at a crowded house for pound 2 (and hell, I was still in highschool when I did that). And it was freakin' awesome! I would've gone to pound 3 if I had the money at the time.

But still, if you want to find people, post in the regional zones, post on gamefaqs, make posters at school, ect. The game club at my high school wouldn't have started (and later became a tradition) if it weren't for 3 kids who decided to talk to some teachers and advertise on the announcements. If you want results, you have to do something.

Like I said if Sakurai saw this crap he would be ashamed of American gamers.

No one gives a **** what Sakurai thinks about "American gamers". He made a game targeted at casual players and specifically tried to diminish competition. As people who like competition, we are offended that he specifically tried to make the game non-competative, when it could've easily been suited for both audiances (like melee and 64 were). That's why we don't like Sakurai.

 

[Black Mantis]

No offense, but if it's a bunch of no-name local-yocals that you are hosting (re: Your immediate friends) then it's not really as substantial as you make it out to be. There's a reason why people go on to this site and advertise their tourneys.

But I suppose this is where everybody starts out, huh?

Edit: And get off Sakurai's c0ck, man. Seriously. All he cared about was making a game that targeted the Wii's general audience; we, the competitive community, are disappointed that **** turned out this way.

Smooth Criminal

No name's?????????? Ever heard of Echo? One of the best in NC? By the way, if you're really from Georgia then tell me about Ninja?

 

[Black Mantis]

An hour drive is hardly a reason. I took a plane to ****ing Maryland (I live in florida) and spent 3 nights at a crowded house for pound 2 (and hell, I was still in highschool when I did that). And it was freakin' awesome! I would've gone to pound 3 if I had the money at the time.

But still, if you want to find people, post in the regional zones, post on gamefaqs, make posters at school, ect. The game club at my high school wouldn't have started (and later became a tradition) if it weren't for 3 kids who decided to talk to some teachers and advertise on the announcements. If you want results, you have to do something.



No one gives a **** what Sakurai thinks about "American gamers". He made a game targeted at casual players and specifically tried to diminish competition. As people who like competition, we are offended that he specifically tried to make the game non-competative, when it could've easily been suited for both audiances (like melee and 64 were). That's why we don't like Sakurai.

People play competitively in all three. Then again I am suprised that people still play 64 seriously. The main reason I keep bringing up Sakurai is because at the end of the day he made the game. How could you not care about what he thinks? If Sakurai didn't care he wouldn't have even decided to make the series to begin with. I'm not trying to say Sakurai is God but you have to admit his opinions matter.

 

[thumbswayup]

His opinions don't matter. I'd have prefered it if he never made Brawl.

 

[Fletch]

His opinions don't matter. I'd have prefered it if he never made Brawl.

This. Then we would at least still have a huge community to play Melee with instead of having to wait for Brawl to die.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Okay I'm not your typical 08er because I just hate brawl so much. So people don't judge 08ers before you know them. I hate brawl because it's just so boring it's like MK hits you with his really selfish attacks you sheild you try to punish. MK hits with another selfiish attack. It's just not fun for me.

 

[Yoshima]

I would also like to add this:

This reminds me of the old Halo 1 vs Halo 2 arguments. People *****ed SOOOO much about how Halo was ruined. Why? Because you couldn't get three shot kills with the pistol, half way across Blood Gultch. People spoke of how Halo 2 was never going to be competitive and how everyone would go back to Halo 1. And look what happened there.....Halo 2 had a MASSIVE competitive following. Sure, there were glitches, exploits and tricks to make things easier (some where implemented to thwart the lag and bad net code for Xbox Live).

But now look at Halo 3. That game is VERY balanced and requires more raw skill than the last game. Sure its different, but people learned to adapt and MAKE it competitive. No matter what the developers intend with their game, its up to the COMMUNITY to make it into what they want it to be. Brawl may seemed dumb down and may have been intended for a casual audience, but that should stop us or discourage us from making it competitive.

QFT! Exactly Brawl may appear to most people to be dumbed down just because you can't wavedash or combo(so they say) and it's slightly slower, but as PXG stated you have adapt... complaining is never cool, so just get over it guys. Bottom line Brawl IS still a great & compettive game and it still just as good as melee ever was.

 

[metaXzero]

Wow! Thats an old quote.

But seriously, Brawl doesn't appear to be dumbed down. It IS. And it hasn't proven itself to truly succeed Melee (looks MORE like their will just be two communities).

 

[Jack Kieser]

Now, in all fairness, the 'Brawl community' really doesn't care about the debate. It's hard to say that a group focused on the platform of 'just play whatever you like' is forcing a schism in the community. If they weren't constantly bombarded with 'your game is inferior to ours' comments, I doubt they'd even be commenting on any of this (minus the idiots who troll and the dudes who don't know any better because this is an internet forum).

Most of the hate (and thus, the schism-inducing forces) is coming from one side here.

 

[ETWIST51294]

QFT! Exactly Brawl may appear to most people to be dumbed down just because you can't wavedash or combo(so they say) and it's slightly slower, but as PXG stated you have adapt... complaining is never cool, so just get over it guys. Bottom line Brawl IS still a great & compettive game and it still just as good as melee ever was.

How can you even think that brawl was as good as melee in it's golden days!? Thats bull****. And brawl is dumbed down. A freakin 6 year old playing with pikachu could beat you by spamming thunder, down smash and thunder jolt. Could a 6 year old beat a pro halo player? Hell no!

 

[metaXzero]

Now, in all fairness, the 'Brawl community' really doesn't care about the debate. It's hard to say that a group focused on the platform of 'just play whatever you like' is forcing a schism in the community. If they weren't constantly bombarded with 'your game is inferior to ours' comments, I doubt they'd even be commenting on any of this (minus the idiots who troll and the dudes who don't know any better because this is an internet forum).

Most of the hate (and thus, the schism-inducing forces) is coming from one side here.

Which are you referring to exactly. The casuals on this site or the people who prefer Brawl competitively?

 

[Jack Kieser]

Which are you referring to exactly. The casuals on this site or the people who prefer Brawl competitively?

Casuals rarely count; they just aren't informed enough, so we expect them to say stupid stuff until we correct/teach them. The people who actually play Brawl competitively are the people I mean. I rarely go to a Brawl-fest and hear the words 'Man, this is SO MUCH better than Melee. I'm so glad that game is dying,' or (when people ask to play Melee) 'why would you ever want to play that old piece of ****? That game sucks!'

How many Brawl tournament threads have there been where pure-Melee players go in just to post 'Barlw sux!!11!', though? Hell, how many MELEE tournament threads have that crap? Read like the first 2 pages of the GMTSBCO thread and you'll see what I mean.

 

[thumbswayup]

The hell are you talking about? I hear Brawl supporters bashing Melee all the time. At Otakon there were at least 5 scrubs that I horribly ***** in Brawl who I heard insult Melee because of wavedashing.

Melee supporters have the right to say, "Brawl sux!!", whenever they **** please. That game has become new competitive game and has pushed Melee out in the process. Of course at a Melee tourny you're gonna hear people bash Brawl. THERE WOULD BE MORE MELEE TOURNYS WERE IT NOT FOR BRAWL

 

[Jack Kieser]

The hell are you talking about? I hear Brawl supporters bashing Melee all the time. At Otakon there were at least 5 scrubs that I horribly ***** in Brawl who I heard insult Melee because of wavedashing.

Melee supporters have the right to say, "Brawl sux!!", whenever they **** please. That game has become new competitive game and has pushed Melee out in the process. Of course at a Melee tourny you're gonna hear people bash Brawl. THERE WOULD BE MORE MELEE TOURNYS WERE IT NOT FOR BRAWL

You misunderstood. People ALWAYS have th right to their opinion... but when they start infringing on other's right to piece of mind, problems arise. You can hate Brawl al you want, but when you start coming into BGD just to post 'Barwl sux' threads, we have a problem. When you preface every post with 'Brawl < Melee', we have a problem. Listen, it's wrong coming from both sides, but just because Melee is a better competitive game, that doesn't mean that Melee supporters are justified in being insufferable *****, while Brawlers have to sit back and take it like the inferior players they are. Brawlers get crap for verything these days, while just saying 'Oh, I like Melee more' is bound to get a few 'Amen!'s in almost any thread on this forum.

Douchebaggery, as far as I'm concerned, should be discouraged no matter who commits it. Just because Melee > Brawl doesn't mean you have to harrass people about it, and make no mistake: Melee players do more harassing on these boards than anyone else. They just also get away with it more because it's the status quo to do so. A million people may agree about the same thing, but that doesn't automatically make them all right.

 

[LOL_Master]

what he really should've done, is just put melee on the wii, same everything

 

[thumbswayup]

You misunderstood. People ALWAYS have th right to their opinion... but when they start infringing on other's right to piece of mind, problems arise. You can hate Brawl al you want, but when you start coming into BGD just to post 'Barwl sux' threads, we have a problem. When you preface every post with 'Brawl < Melee', we have a problem. Listen, it's wrong coming from both sides, but just because Melee is a better competitive game, that doesn't mean that Melee supporters are justified in being insufferable *****, while Brawlers have to sit back and take it like the inferior players they are. Brawlers get crap for verything these days, while just saying 'Oh, I like Melee more' is bound to get a few 'Amen!'s in almost any thread on this forum.

Douchebaggery, as far as I'm concerned, should be discouraged no matter who commits it. Just because Melee > Brawl doesn't mean you have to harrass people about it, and make no mistake: Melee players do more harassing on these boards than anyone else. They just also get away with it more because it's the status quo to do so. A million people may agree about the same thing, but that doesn't automatically make them all right.

Brawlers get crap for everything these days? At least THEIR game is the one being played by the majority. At least THEY never have to worry about their game dying.

I've seen the Melee supporters be pricks to the Brawl noobs, but they only ever are when that person was ignorant and close minded. Therefore, they need to be responded to like that until they change their attitude. Many Brawl supporters that voice their opinion need to be shot because they often have a very skewed and incorrect view of things. They speak as if they know what they are talking about and as if their opinion is fact. It's utterly ridiculous trying to have a conversation with these people.

 

[Jack Kieser]

As much as I didn't want to say this... get off it, dude. Melee is in no way in threat of dying. Plenty of people still are passionate about it, and if some previous large scale Melee tourneys are to be believed, people are plenty willing to play. If your area doesn't have many people, go somewhere else to play.

And there will always be ignorant people. Doesn't mean you have to be ignorant in repsonse. It's amazing how few people realize that keeping your mouth shut is an option these days.

 

[battousai555]

Brawlers get crap for everything these days? At least THEIR game is the one being played by the majority. At least THEY never have to worry about their game dying.

I've seen the Melee supporters be pricks to the Brawl noobs, but they only ever are when that person was ignorant and close minded. Therefore, they need to be responded to like that until they change their attitude. Many Brawl supporters that voice their opinion need to be shot because they often have a very skewed and incorrect view of things. They speak as if they know what they are talking about and as if their opinion is fact. It's utterly ridiculous trying to have a conversation with these people.

I agree. Btw, your sig is full of win!

 

[thumbswayup]

That's what I do. I encountered so many idiots in the past several months that I just ignore them these days. I never said Melee was dying, I said it's something we worry about. Maybe I'm just being a bit harsh, but you have to understand I live in Maryland and I'm in the best region for smash (MD/VA). We ***** everyone in the Melee days and I was able to improve at such a rapid rate because of the number of people with amazing skill in this area that I got to play. But now all everyone wants to do is Brawl. OCCASIONALLY there will be a Melee setup at a Brawl tourny, but it's never enough. Sometimes we even hold mini Melee tournies on the side of a Brawl tourny, but it's never enough. Everyone just wants to practice Brawl for the next tourny and it's BORING. I enjoy Brawl as a casual game, I really do. Hell, I'm even growing very interested in Brawl teams. But when I go to a smashfest or a tourny and I have to play hours of singles I get very annoyed very quickly. I need to have both games there to keep me entertained. **** Brawl singles.

 

[thumbswayup]

I agree. Btw, your sig is full of win!

Thanks

 

[Jack Kieser]

That's what I do. I encountered so many idiots in the past several months that I just ignore them these days. I never said Melee was dying, I said it's something we worry about. Maybe I'm just being a bit harsh, but you have to understand I live in Maryland and I'm in the best region for smash (MD/VA). We ***** everyone in the Melee days and I was able to improve at such a rapid rate because of the number of people with amazing skill in this area that I got to play. But now all everyone wants to do is Brawl. OCCASIONALLY there will be a Melee setup at a Brawl tourny, but it's never enough. Sometimes we even hold mini Melee tournies on the side of a Brawl tourny, but it's never enough. Everyone just wants to practice Brawl for the next tourny and it's BORING. I enjoy Brawl as a casual game, I really do. Hell, I'm even growing very interested in Brawl teams. But when I go to a smashfest or a tourny and I have to play hours of singles I get very annoyed very quickly. I need to have both games there to keep me entertained. **** Brawl singles.

But think about this from a logical perspective. Your situation sucks, but is that justification for treating anyone else, online or not, like crap? Is your situation, sucky as it is, a good reason to be a ****?

Because that's what you're defending here. 'I can be a **** because life sucks.'

 

[thumbswayup]

Are you saying I'm a ****? Never have I insulted anyone on the boards who didn't have it coming. I just don't do that.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Not you in particular. In general. Is the fact that *insert all of the above* enough of a reason to justify treating Brawlers with disdain or disrespect? Because that's what all those random 'B < M' comments or 'Barlw sux!!1!1' posts do; they shove an opinion in their faces like they should be ashamed for enjoying such an 'inferior' game.

It is arguably MUCH easier to find instances of this than instances of Brawlers demeaning Melee for reasons OTHER than that they just don't understand.

 

[ETWIST51294]

That's what I do. I encountered so many idiots in the past several months that I just ignore them these days. I never said Melee was dying, I said it's something we worry about. Maybe I'm just being a bit harsh, but you have to understand I live in Maryland and I'm in the best region for smash (MD/VA). We ***** everyone in the Melee days and I was able to improve at such a rapid rate because of the number of people with amazing skill in this area that I got to play. But now all everyone wants to do is Brawl. OCCASIONALLY there will be a Melee setup at a Brawl tourny, but it's never enough. Sometimes we even hold mini Melee tournies on the side of a Brawl tourny, but it's never enough. Everyone just wants to practice Brawl for the next tourny and it's BORING. I enjoy Brawl as a casual game, I really do. Hell, I'm even growing very interested in Brawl teams. But when I go to a smashfest or a tourny and I have to play hours of singles I get very annoyed very quickly. I need to have both games there to keep me entertained. **** Brawl singles.

I agree with thumbeswayup. I live in Maryland to and it is overun with brawl players and I only like teams in brawl too. I think that brawl tournys should just have brawl teams instead of boring *** singles. I miss melee.

 

[LOL_Master]

even the fire marshall wants to shut us down

 

[thumbswayup]

True, I think it's because we grew tired of repeating ourselves giving great speeches as to why Melee is a better game and why we think Brawl is a disappointment. The Brawl noobs just didn't listen, no matter how many times we posted facts to back up our opinions. You're one of the few people with the sense to make a valid arguement on either side of the field, but the Brawl supporters can't even defend their own game

 

[RDK]

But think about this from a logical perspective. Your situation sucks, but is that justification for treating anyone else, online or not, like crap? Is your situation, sucky as it is, a good reason to be a ****?

Because that's what you're defending here. 'I can be a **** because life sucks.'

^ I've adopted it as a life philosophy.

Seriously though, when you meet as many ****-faced idiots as a lot of the more experienced players around here do (not only on the boards but IRL), you tend to become a tad cynical.

 

[LOL_Master]

it's done...over with, brawl nubs will always be my birch

 

[Jack Kieser]

^ I've adopted it as a life philosophy.

Seriously though, when you meet as many ****-faced idiots as a lot of the more experienced players around here do (not only on the boards but IRL), you tend to become a tad cynical.

Dude, I'm Greek; we invented cynicism. (probably not really, but we're a very, VERY cynical people) I may be a cynic, though, but I don't go out of my way to belittle or demean someone. Part of it is that just the knowledge that I'm better than some douchbag is enough for me, but part of it is that I was taught, unlike most American kids, that this individualist 'I'm better than you, so I'm going to make sure you know it' attitude is VERY destructive. And that's what's happened here, too. 'My game is better than yours, so I'm going to make sure you know it every chance I get. I'm going to make sure you're miserable until you agree with me. I'm going to demean and demoralize and disrespect you until you understand how much more right than you I am.'

It's ridiculous that this kind of behavior is not only tolerated but encouraged towards anyone with the 'audacity' to think that Brawl is fun, much less competitive.

 

[metaXzero]

Hey! I live in a birch (seriously).

 

[RDK]

Dude, I'm Greek; we invented cynicism. (probably not really, but we're a very, VERY cynical people) I may be a cynic, though, but I don't go out of my way to belittle or demean someone. Part of it is that just the knowledge that I'm better than some douchbag is enough for me, but part of it is that I was taught, unlike most American kids, that this individualist 'I'm better than you, so I'm going to make sure you know it' attitude is VERY destructive. And that's what's happened here, too. 'My game is better than yours, so I'm going to make sure you know it every chance I get. I'm going to make sure you're miserable until you agree with me. I'm going to demean and demoralize and disrespect you until you understand how much more right than you I am.'

It's ridiculous that this kind of behavior is not only tolerated but encouraged towards anyone with the 'audacity' to think that Brawl is fun, much less competitive.

I was exaggerating my point about treating others like trash; I share your opinion that just the fact that I'm better than someone is normally good enough for me, without having to shove it in their face.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Sweet, then there IS hope.

 

[Corigames]

Like I said if Sakurai saw this crap he would be ashamed of American gamers.

NO, he's already ashamed of us, that's why he made Brawl.

 

[LOL_Master]

mass lolllls

 

[TLMarth]

I agree with LavisFiend on the first page that Sakurai should create the game that he wants. But he should also create maybe a seperate game, that represents what we want.

 

[TLMarth]

Thats so true. People should stop at that line and realize this.

Also, I'm amazed. Some people think the guy is a bad game designer because he promotes FUN instead of competition. This is absurd, its mind boggling that people can think that way.

Because if you didn't know, games have been made for fun, not for competition.

People then decide to compete with it. People shouldn't even be whining about something like that. You compete or you don't, thats your choice, get in or get out of the competitive scene of Brawl. There is nothing else to argue about anymore.

In our opinion, you can be competitive and have fun at the same time.
And really, the way Sakurai wants us to have fun is not how we think of fun. We think it is fun both to win and to try to improve after loss. Sure we might have a 'down' phase where we think 'I suck' but we try to get better later and the game will get boring after a while if it is meant to be played in a party way

Also

Posted by Scar

Competitive vs Competition

If you look it up in a dictionary, you will find a very different definition. Sometimes the dictionary is not the place to go. Words are clumsy tools we use to try to convey thoughts. We must define the word on our own.

The definition of competitive that has received the most support is the innate property of a game allowing better players to win consistently. This yields my mantra, that which I repeat over and over to prove my point.

 

[LOL_Master]

dictionary can make mistakes too.