Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise

[Aesir]

I like how 4chan thinks their opinion matters.

 

[TheManaLord]

Here's a small rant on Sakurai.

The man has done wonders. He's made some great games, but as he himself has stated he makes these games for everyone to enjoy. He is close minded in this respect, he appeals to the masses. Not all competitive players get their feelings hurt when they lose. Not all competitive players have terrible memories from a loss that's happened. Melee was the perfect balance and Sakurai screwed it up. Casuals could remain ignorant to the competitive depth that melee had and they would be completely content. And competitive and hardcore gamers could go deeper and deeper into a world they could never imagine.

Sakurai saw this amazing quality that melee had. And he purposefully destroyed it. Why would anybody do this? Because he's a self serving prick. He made this game for him, HE doesn't like it when he loses, HE doesn't like this HE doesn't like that. He doesn't think about the gamers, at least not all of them. he thinks about himself and those that hold his likeliness.

Due his intent to destroy smash as a competitive game, I do not think brawl will develop. He discourages it, he made the game to discourage it, and sadly I believe he may have succeeded.

 

[Attractive Penguin]

Lol, I like how 4chan thinks they're funny.

You're obviously irked enough to satisfy them by posting on the topic, aren't you?

 

[Blackshadow]

Doesn't mean what he says isn't true.

 

[Pink Reaper]

ITT: /v/ proves that they themselves RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE due to the existence of Smashboards, thus proving that we troll them simply by being.

 

[Aesir]

our existence makes them angry.

it's kinda like Athens Vs Sparta. >.>;

 

[Jack Kieser]

Jesus H. Tap-dancing T*tty-f*cking Christ, what the hell happened while I was off playing Fire Emblem?! I leave the board for a few hours and sh*t starts hitting fans like we were monkeys in an industrial fan factory. I can't believe that one douche was deluded enough to think I was being serious... Just goes to show how many dumb people are on the internet.

 

[Phyvo]

You're obviously irked enough to satisfy them by posting on the topic, aren't you?

Should we really care whether they get their giggles or not? Sure, you may say that letting them giggle means they "win" and get satisfaction, but really. It's the bloody internet. No matter what anyone says, it's impossible to "win" on the internet in any meaningful fashion.

 

[.:DRAKE:.]

Should we really care whether they get their giggles or not? Sure, you may say that letting them giggle means they "win" and get satisfaction, but really. It's the bloody internet. No matter what anyone says, it's impossible to "win" on the internet in any meaningful fashion.

I beg to differ. According to the jizzilion spammy, colourful adverts I see littered around the internet, I win free ring tones all the time.

 

[CuLo]

ready for this? I loved melee. Hell, the freakin game made me hundreds of dollars in its lifespan. I was unbeatable among my friends and local colleges. Now here's brawl. they removed all the things that made me king in melee, but guess what? I'm still unbeatable in serious money matches. why is this? because I learned that RAW skill and timing are the new advanced techniques. call it my ability to adapt quickly. I call it common sense.

people in melee got so used to wavedashing and etc so effectively, they basically ignored how to advance and parry using the original techniques designed for that purpose.

I love playing against a person who can't let go of the past, because nothing feels better than sh*tting all over them for it.

 

[Scar]

People who play Brawl and sit there and whine and refuse to play the game properly and sit and keep trying to do Melee things and get pissed that Melee things aren't working are living in the past. No one else is, though. I hate that phrase, "living in the past," it's garbage, it's overused.

Raw skill and timing are the new advanced techniques, wow, great... what skill are you talking about? There isn't any real skill involved besides basic traditional fighting game techniques, spacing and prediction. Your spacing and decisionmaking can only get so good, and everyone can get to that level relatively quickly. Then after that it comes down to split second arbitrary decisions of "is he going to airdodge or not?"

That's a guessing game and it takes a certain amount of skill and pattern recognition to get good, but you can never actually master that aspect of the game. It's all guesswork.

 

[Nobie]

People who play Brawl and sit there and whine and refuse to play the game properly and sit and keep trying to do Melee things and get pissed that Melee things aren't working are living in the past. No one else is, though. I hate that phrase, "living in the past," it's garbage, it's overused.

Raw skill and timing are the new advanced techniques, wow, great... what skill are you talking about? There isn't any real skill involved besides basic traditional fighting game techniques, spacing and prediction. Your spacing and decisionmaking can only get so good, and everyone can get to that level relatively quickly. Then after that it comes down to split second arbitrary decisions of "is he going to airdodge or not?"

That's a guessing game and it takes a certain amount of skill and pattern recognition to get good, but you can never actually master that aspect of the game. It's all guesswork.

Spacing and decision-making don't have a magical glass ceiling over them.

Tell you what, when every decent player masters spacing AND the knowledge of how to use it properly, you will have a point. Not just "the best" but decent because, as you said, "everyone can get to that level relatively quickly."

And really? Guess-work? I think you're getting a little confused about PREDICTION. KNOWING he will air dodge because you've picked up patterns or habits in your opponent, or are actively training them in the match TO air dodge on reaction.

"You can never master that aspect of the game." Of course you can't, that's why it's a far more important game element than whatever else it is you're talking about. If something could be mastered then there'd be no point to keep pursuing it.

 

[studly]

Spacing and decision-making don't have a magical glass ceiling over them.

Tell you what, when every decent player masters spacing AND the knowledge of how to use it properly, you will have a point. Not just "the best" but decent because, as you said, "everyone can get to that level relatively quickly."

And really? Guess-work? I think you're getting a little confused about PREDICTION. KNOWING he will air dodge because you've picked up patterns or habits in your opponent, or are actively training them in the match TO air dodge on reaction.

"You can never master that aspect of the game." Of course you can't, that's why it's a far more important game element than whatever else it is you're talking about. If something could be mastered then there'd be no point to keep pursuing it.

...
what the heck...lets talk real game ..come on now

 

[CatCatCat]

People who play Brawl and sit there and whine and refuse to play the game properly and sit and keep trying to do Melee things and get pissed that Melee things aren't working are living in the past. No one else is, though. I hate that phrase, "living in the past," it's garbage, it's overused.

Raw skill and timing are the new advanced techniques, wow, great... what skill are you talking about? There isn't any real skill involved besides basic traditional fighting game techniques, spacing and prediction. Your spacing and decisionmaking can only get so good, and everyone can get to that level relatively quickly. Then after that it comes down to split second arbitrary decisions of "is he going to airdodge or not?"

That's a guessing game and it takes a certain amount of skill and pattern recognition to get good, but you can never actually master that aspect of the game. It's all guesswork.

so street fighter two is all guesswork? that game has way less options than SSB but it is still played because its balanced and requires split second decisions. two things SSBB has.

Not trying to come across as a ****, I just don't understand the reasoning that just because there aren't as many techs the game is not "competitive".

 

[Scar]

I'm not saying anything about the techs or tech skill involved, and I'm not saying that spacing and prediction are stupid or anything, they're just already tested in other games, we don't need an SSB to do the exact same thing IMO. Especially when Melee was a lot more than that.

I concede in my original post that there is a "certain amount of skill" involved in prediction but I maintain that any scrub can just randomly decide to airdodge or attack or whatever and make just as intelligent a decision as a seasoned veteran.

 

[Dime]

Ok, so Sakurai strived to close the gap between skilled and unskilled players. As a competitive community, what should we do about it? Should we continue playing Melee or make the best of what we have in Brawl?

If the competitive community as a whole stays with Melee they will be affectively closing its doors to new members. I may be way off base, but I see most new members (like myself) only interested in Brawl despite any shortcomings it may have.

Maybe it’s too early for this, but at some point it would be nice to see a clear direction to these debates. Are we really fighting about what competition should be or are we trying to decide which game will be most prominent on Smashboards and tournaments?

Once again I may be wrong here but I feel like the real agenda to these debates is to get new players into Melee over Brawl and to stop existing Melee players from making the transition to Brawl. If that's true, there is no shame in it. I just wish people were more up front about it, because, what’s the point in telling Brawl players that the game is inferior unless you want them to do something with that knowledge.

 

[Reaver197]

Personally, I think we should focus on Melee for the competitive side of things. Not that Brawl is a bad game, but trying to take it to the level of competition that was going for Melee is trying to force the game to be something it's not. Trying to play it like it has high levels of metagame and technical skill is trying to force a mindset upon it that does not agree with the core aspects of how the game functions.

So, yeah Dime, it strikes me as that what we should try to do, if it's something that a player wants and is open to, try to encourage people to play Melee over Brawl if they really want to play a more competitive game. However, I should note that Brawl is not a stupid, or inferior game at all. Far from it, it's what Sakurai wanted to make all along, a more casually fun game, where everyone that plays can have fun and have a chance at winning, whether they're a newcomer or a long-time gamer. The only thing I find discouraging is when people try to actively supplant Melee with Brawl in terms of it being a competitive game.

 

[Dime]

Personally, I think we should focus on Melee for the competitive side of things. Not that Brawl is a bad game, but trying to take it to the level of competition that was going for Melee is trying to force the game to be something it's not. Trying to play it like it has high levels of metagame and technical skill is trying to force a mindset upon it that does not agree with the core aspects of how the game functions.

So, yeah Dime, it strikes me as that what we should try to do, if it's something that a player wants and is open to, try to encourage people to play Melee over Brawl if they really want to play a more competitive game. However, I should note that Brawl is not a stupid, or inferior game at all. Far from it, it's what Sakurai wanted to make all along, a more casually fun game, where everyone that plays can have fun and have a chance at winning, whether they're a newcomer or a long-time gamer. The only thing I find discouraging is when people try to actively supplant Melee with Brawl in terms of it being a competitive game.

Thanks for your honesty Reaver. I wish everyone luck who wants to see Melee stay the competitive standard. It is going to be an uphill battle. Maybe I should pick up a copy of Melee just in case it happens.

 

[LOL_Master]

big fat anus

 

[Dime]

^
thats hot
BADONKADONK

 

[Mikedot1]

Personally, I think we should focus on Melee for the competitive side of things. Not that Brawl is a bad game, but trying to take it to the level of competition that was going for Melee is trying to force the game to be something it's not. Trying to play it like it has high levels of metagame and technical skill is trying to force a mindset upon it that does not agree with the core aspects of how the game functions.

So, yeah Dime, it strikes me as that what we should try to do, if it's something that a player wants and is open to, try to encourage people to play Melee over Brawl if they really want to play a more competitive game. However, I should note that Brawl is not a stupid, or inferior game at all. Far from it, it's what Sakurai wanted to make all along, a more casually fun game, where everyone that plays can have fun and have a chance at winning, whether they're a newcomer or a long-time gamer. The only thing I find discouraging is when people try to actively supplant Melee with Brawl in terms of it being a competitive game.

I agree whole-heartedly.

 

[Sandwich]

big fat anus

This is singlehandedly the most intellegent post I have seen in this thread since it's inception

 

[Pink Reaper]

Ok, so Sakurai strived to close the gap between skilled and unskilled players. As a competitive community, what should we do about it? Should we continue playing Melee or make the best of what we have in Brawl?

If the competitive community as a whole stays with Melee they will be affectively closing its doors to new members. I may be way off base, but I see most new members (like myself) only interested in Brawl despite any shortcomings it may have.

Maybe it’s too early for this, but at some point it would be nice to see a clear direction to these debates. Are we really fighting about what competition should be or are we trying to decide which game will be most prominent on Smashboards and tournaments?

Once again I may be wrong here but I feel like the real agenda to these debates is to get new players into Melee over Brawl and to stop existing Melee players from making the transition to Brawl. If that's true, there is no shame in it. I just wish people were more up front about it, because, what’s the point in telling Brawl players that the game is inferior unless you want them to do something with that knowledge.

It is entirely my agenda to try and keep Brawl from taking over. Even if someone finds a way to make it not suck as much as it does now it will never be on the level of Melee, so to think that we're simply dropping a better game for a new game just because its what the n00bs who just showed up want seems ******** to me. More so, the idea that there will be a huge amount of Brawl tourneys/players because of how easy Brawl is is sort of completely and entirely wrong. Most of the newer players wont bother to travel for hours or maybe even days just to get to a tournament when they could just play online, and the few that do travel to tournaments probably wont keep going if the game turns in to 8 minute long camp matches.

 

[The Executive]

Brawl's too easy to support legitimate tournament play.

 

[Samochan]

and the few that do travel to tournaments probably wont keep going if the game turns in to 8 minute long camp matches.

Camping especially, new people will get discouraged when such tactics are used against them. At least if they get comboed they have the ability to get out and the comboes themselves are usually not even boring to watch, but impressive. The new player has better chance to go "whoah, how did you do that" instead of "that's cheap", while I don't see them getting anything else but frustrated when their opponent camps. Then the new player can get motivated to learn all this stuff if they get inspired enough, especially if you tell them how.

 

[RDK]

I can totally see where people are coming from when they say Brawl's too easy to be played with legitimate competitiveness, but people need to remember that if you were a good Melee player, you should know how to deal with things like campers (even good ones).

 

[Dime]

Cool. It’s good to see people who are not afraid to go out on a limb and say what they really mean. I’m hoping to see brawl do well. (It doesn’t have to replace Melee) I just want more local Brawl tourneys since I don't own Melee

Hey Darkstar, what’s up with the new sig? I liked the old one even if others didn't.

 

[grimraper139]

ahhhhhhhhh

 

[Yuna]

I can totally see where people are coming from when they say Brawl's too easy to be played with legitimate competitiveness, but people need to remember that if you were a good Melee player, you should know how to deal with things like campers (even good ones).

It's not a question of being good enough to deal with them. It's a question of the game itself promoting camping to such an extent it's doable with almost everyone and almost always one of the very best strategies in the game.

Unless we're all going to turn into scrubs and start an "honor-system" of non-camping, it's gonna be the predominant strategy at tourneys. It'll be boring to do and watch, but unless people start playing to lose to those who camp, it'll be there to destroy competitive Brawl.

 

[LavisFiend]

It's not a question of being good enough to deal with them. It's a question of the game itself promoting camping to such an extent it's doable with almost everyone and almost always one of the very best strategies in the game.

Unless we're all going to turn into scrubs and start an "honor-system" of non-camping, it's gonna be the predominant strategy at tourneys. It'll be boring to do and watch, but unless people start playing to lose to those who camp, it'll be there to destroy competitive Brawl.

Do not speak of such blasphemies.

 

[Fletch]

Personally, I think we should focus on Melee for the competitive side of things. Not that Brawl is a bad game, but trying to take it to the level of competition that was going for Melee is trying to force the game to be something it's not. Trying to play it like it has high levels of metagame and technical skill is trying to force a mindset upon it that does not agree with the core aspects of how the game functions.

So, yeah Dime, it strikes me as that what we should try to do, if it's something that a player wants and is open to, try to encourage people to play Melee over Brawl if they really want to play a more competitive game. However, I should note that Brawl is not a stupid, or inferior game at all. Far from it, it's what Sakurai wanted to make all along, a more casually fun game, where everyone that plays can have fun and have a chance at winning, whether they're a newcomer or a long-time gamer. The only thing I find discouraging is when people try to actively supplant Melee with Brawl in terms of it being a competitive game.

Agree 100%, this is a great post.

 

[RDK]

It's not a question of being good enough to deal with them. It's a question of the game itself promoting camping to such an extent it's doable with almost everyone and almost always one of the very best strategies in the game.

Unless we're all going to turn into scrubs and start an "honor-system" of non-camping, it's gonna be the predominant strategy at tourneys. It'll be boring to do and watch, but unless people start playing to lose to those who camp, it'll be there to destroy competitive Brawl.

True enough. I'm not saying that scrubbing is a viable turn for the community; I just don't see any other way to remedy the situation, other than just not playing the game.

All I'm saying is that, yes, Sakurai gave us some extremely ****ty lemons, but lets at least TRY and still make lemonade.

 

[RDK]

Cool. It’s good to see people who are not afraid to go out on a limb and say what they really mean. I’m hoping to see brawl do well. (It doesn’t have to replace Melee) I just want more local Brawl tourneys since I don't own Melee

Hey Darkstar, what’s up with the new sig? I liked the old one even if others didn't.

4chan is always good for a laugh. Gimpy's thread got raided yesterday.

Can you read what it says at the bottom? I might have to resize it.

 

[Yuna]

True enough. I'm not saying that scrubbing is a viable turn for the community; I just don't see any other way to remedy the situation, other than just not playing the game.

Neither do I.

All I'm saying is that, yes, Sakurai gave us some extremely ****ty lemons, but lets at least TRY and still make lemonade.

The lemons are rotten, worm-infested (despite the facts that worms don't even like lemons), full of salmonella (somehow) and is somehow sweet, sour, bitter and dank at the same time.

And we have no water, sugar or even glasses.

And also, if we walk 5 yards to the left, we'll find fresh lemons perfect for lemonade, ample amounts of sugar, freshly washed glasses and a pitcher made out of gold.

 

[RDK]

*WAVES WHITE FLAG*

 

[cwjalex]

The lemons are rotten, worm-infested (despite the facts that worms don't even like lemons), full of salmonella (somehow) and is somehow sweet, sour, bitter and dank at the same time.

And we have no water, sugar or even glasses.

And also, if we walk 5 yards to the left, we'll find fresh lemons perfect for lemonade, ample amounts of sugar, freshly washed glasses and a pitcher made out of gold.

hahahaha

I just played melee a few minutes ago for the first time since I got brawl and all I can say is that I really miss it. The speed overwhelmed me at first and I realized that I actually had to sit up straight and concentrate as opposed to my usual brawl posture of leaning back in my chair putting in virtually no effort. My girlfriend isn't too bad at brawl...which shows to me that it shouldn't be played competitively. I'm not saying girls are bad at videogames, but she in particular is terrible.

 

[Sandwich]

*WAVES WHITE FLAG*

I SAW THAT THREAD.

 

[LOL_Master]

hyeah tolly saw it too

 

[NES n00b]

I can totally see where people are coming from when they say Brawl's too easy to be played with legitimate competitiveness, but people need to remember that if you were a good Melee player, you should know how to deal with things like campers (even good ones).

I am too good at camping. lolz

@This topic, you know what would be a great idea? Everyone should play Melee if they want the deepest smash related game!!!! YAY!

 

[Firus]

True enough. I'm not saying that scrubbing is a viable turn for the community; I just don't see any other way to remedy the situation, other than just not playing the game.

All I'm saying is that, yes, Sakurai gave us some extremely ****ty lemons, but lets at least TRY and still make lemonade.

I totally agree with this.

I mean honestly, Melee is a great game, and I see nothing wrong with keeping up with it. But to ignore Brawl completely because Sakurai screwed us over is stupid. Brawl has a lot of BS in it, and a lot of good stuff was removed. But we should try to make it as competitive as possible, especially since Sakurai tried so hard to stop us from doing so. Just to spite him, I want to make Brawl as freakin' competitive as it can get. I want to push it to the point where the noobs actually have to practice, and those that put in time and effort aren't epically failing thanks to tripping when the aforementioned noobs get a Final Smash. Screw Final Smashes, screw tripping, screw everything Sakurai put in to stop us from doing what we want with the game, and let's make the game competitive and throw it in his face repeatedly.

/rant