How does that add imbalance? It changes what needs to be done to properly edgeguard. Are they going to airdodge? Predict it, it's not that hard. They will cancel prematurely if they think your going to auto attack when you jump near them. you wait a few frames and then attack.
Again, you misunderstand the post. What he was saying is that some characters can't edgeguard at all because they don't possess multiple jumps or a decent vertical recovery move. In Melee almost every character had an edgeguard game, while in Brawl not so much because edgeguarding is too risky for some characters.
People have claimed due to Brawl removing the previous advanced techs and currently lacking some as of late makes it less competitive. I disagree as although people have studied the game and are researching to find something to abuse. New things will be discovered, the lack of them for the moment doesn't mean it lack competitiveness.
This again! Removing ATs made the game less deep, and for this reason people believe it is less competitive. From what you've posted, it seems like you don't quite understand how ATs added to the complexity of Melee. Other reasons stated for Brawl being less competitive: floatiness, no hitstun, lack of reliable combos (due to lack of hitstun), downplay of the edgeguard game, camping made infinitely more advantageous, and others I can't recall but I'm sure others could pitch in.
Thats nice and dandy for newer players, but I'm trying to explain it from a more competitive perspective. More experienced players should be able to already, Brawl has snapping to make ledge grabbing easier, it's nifty for newer players, but doesn't affect tournament play when people can do the same tactics as before with an increase in difficulty in performing them.
You're referring to edgeguarding? Please make your posts more clear, so people don't misunderstand you. This game mechanic affects tournament play IMMENSELY. Why do you think standard tournament rules switched to 3 stock matches rather than 4 stock matches like before? It's because matches take forever with 4 stocks, due to how difficult it is to kill people thanks to a difficult/nonexistent edgeguard game.
The only really difference between Melee and Brawl is that different techniques and skills are required to work with one game compared to another. Power works in Football to rush in with a football, but doesn't help in golf which requires more control to land on the green. Both games are equally competitive thanks to the huge sums of money being spent on each sports/prize money.
It's no different here when comparing Melee and Brawl.
Wrong. The same basic techniques that are used in Melee are used in Brawl, because that's all that Brawl has left. Apart from some novelty differences like gliding, and techniques that are character specific, the basic game has stayed the same. Shieldgrabbing, edgeguarding, techchasing, short hopping, powershielding, and many more, are in both games. However, Brawl has effectively dumbed down or made virtually useless many of these. Recovering to the edge was changed with snapping so that everyone could sweetspot, edgeguarding was made too risky for some characters and in some cases simply impossible depending on the matchup, short hopping was made less useful because you can't cancel the lag from aerials with L-canceling, powershielding lost its ability to reflect projectiles, consistent combos (while present) are almost nonexistent thanks to lack of hitstun. In so many cases, the same techniques from Melee were diminished to the point that it really feels like Sakurai had a vendetta against the competitive community.
As for the last point about MK and Pit. I was referring to new players being able to learn to recover with their great recoveries, another reason why edge guarding is harder in Brawl, but even if they learn how to recover to a degree, chances are they can't fight for crap.
Who says they need to fight all that well? Pit just arrow spams and footstools, while MK just uses tornado, downsmash, up-b.
People say the gap was shortened for skill between newbies and pros. If this was true then tournament standing would be near randomness, lacking consistency.
Right now what is keeping the tournament standings relatively consistent is how familiar with the game people are. Knowing the duration, lag time, and range of all 35 characters' moves is no easy feat, but it gives you a big advantage over someone who's not as experienced. When the distribution of game knowledge stabilizes and virtually every competitive player is familiar with character weaknesses or strengths, I think tournament results will start to fluctuate wildly.
I never said increasing recovery for the cast made it less competitive, I said it was just easier, no other loaded messages involved.
The argument here is which game is more competitive. If you didn't mean for it to support your argument, it has no place in this thread.
As for your examples, I'd say both. Both are viable tactics in which both can work in Brawl. Option one is more difficult, but is much more rewarding compared to option two. I'd even say option one is more viable if people learn the timing on air dodges more.
Option one is also way more risky and sometimes impossible to pull off depending on the character you're playing as, and what character your opponent is playing as.
I'm saying if edgeguarding as a tactic isn't working so well you need to either,
a.) Learn new ways to edge guard.
b.) Try using mind games
c.) Try something else
If your tactic for edge guarding isn't working, you may need to rethink your strategies and tactics involving it, or try something else. Edgeguarding at eighty wasn't working, go for a higher percent and try again, or just forget it if you can't do it.
You make it sound as if any of these options are an easy fix. Learn new ways to edgeguard? So far the only proven ways are to jump off and either hit them into the side of the stage or hit them away from the stage. Both carry high risks because of how low or how far away from the stage you have to get in order to execute. Mind games? They're not nearly as effective off the stage because you can only use one or two moves in a limited amount of time, or else you fall to your death. Try something else? I'll take this as let them get back on the stage, put some more damage on them, and then try to get another kill move off. This is not very advantageous to you because they can easily trade blows and rack up damage on you at the same time.
To summarize: Brawl is less competitive than Melee not just because of the removal of advanced techs, but mainly because of the huge changes made to the basic game mechanics.
