Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[greenlink]

In this match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWrltai6kck alot of the time mango would run in close and shield to bait hbox to float too far in (i guess) and then fullhop uair oos or fullhop knee.
That looks really weird, does it actually work or is it just a mango thing?

 

[JPeGImage]

that "finish teams finals after singles starts" ****

You mean the utilizing of the rest of the setups while only 1-2 of them are needed for teams? isnt it more efficient that way?
we dont finish our tourneys as fast as the EC does, so we can be having food/friendly breaks and **** after teams . . . thats just silly

i thought wicked was british.

I thought it was a vegas thing, myself.
maybe we can get some UK confirmation. . .

fuzzy fuzzyness ??

That looks really weird, does it actually work or is it just a mango thing?

that looks like it should work a lot, actually. . .
cause really the only thing youre open for, by doing that, is a grab
and I cant even imagine a jiggs ever trying to grab an approaching falcon
so yeah, for jiggs players who like to stay in the air a lot (mostly all of them), I would initially say that this is a great tactic
youd also have to pull it off with the conviction that mango does. no second guessing id assume or you let them get away/ get baired

edit:: if you dont mind me asking, wtf is your avatar, greenlink?

looks like a rejected barney character

Flippy the frog, maybe?

 

[chiZZLeSD]

In this match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWrltai6kck alot of the time mango would run in close and shield to bait hbox to float too far in (i guess) and then fullhop uair oos or fullhop knee.
That looks really weird, does it actually work or is it just a mango thing?

it works if you can pull it off like mango haha

 

[Roneblaster]

scar starts posting after we decide he doesnt post enough.

GG's everyone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHir6yXXUgc

Darkrain doesnt Raptor Boost 1 time. Good idea vs Sheik? Good Idea only on this stage? /Discuss

 

[JPeGImage]

I think the stage has a lot to do with it (even though I like to raptor boost my opponents shields when my opponent is on the side platforms when they are on the first height; it's almost never punished if they stay in sheild and sometimes will hit them trying to jump out of it or will shield poke)

that all being said, I still dont like to hardly ever use raptor boost in MUs where I dont stand to gain much if I hit and I stand to lose a lot/a stock if it misses (the risk/reward is real high). This idea holds true moreso in the falco and falcon MUs. But It still can be true with sheiks who can techchase real well (even though U actually can 0-death them with a well placed sideb+good followup). All that including the priority they hold against falcon's sideb really deter me from really ever using that move.

DD-> dair accomplishes the same thing plus a lot of other things that make it the preferred option, imo (can adjust spacing, more dmg, maneuverability before and after the move, less obvious)

hope that all makes sense

edit: and thanks for recording and uploading smym vids, rene
and so early ,too

 

[Scar]

raptor boost is awful unless it's 100% unpunishable (used as a tech chase)

once it hits it's ****

You mean the utilizing of the rest of the setups while only 1-2 of them are needed for teams? isnt it more efficient that way?
we dont finish our tourneys as fast as the EC does, so we can be having food/friendly breaks and **** after teams . . . thats just silly

i don't think it's more efficient, it's 1 setup for a maximum of 3 Bo5 sets

sure, that time could be used for pools, but the amount of time a pool takes to be completed is totally dependent and saving 30 mins is hardly going to impact pools as a whole

also they were using 2 tvs / pool which further negates the *need* for that particular setup

all it does IMO is disrupt the flow of the doubles tournament, at the benefit of like 6 people (out of 72)

i didn't play a match for nearly 2 hours after loser's semis, and the next set i played was loser's finals

in between i finished my lunch and took a nap, hella not pro, especially considering that there were no friendlies/warmups during pools (s2j/lovage were in the middle of singles pools and apparently jeff needs no warmup, no johns i just wish i could have given them a better set, 3-0 **** is no good, and IMO it could have been avoided, but no johns at all)

 

[pockyD]

You mean the utilizing of the rest of the setups while only 1-2 of them are needed for teams? isnt it more efficient that way?
we dont finish our tourneys as fast as the EC does, so we can be having food/friendly breaks and **** after teams . . . thats just silly

you can reserve the 1 setup for the teams matches and just defer the pools matches for those players

letting the players in the money for teams get in // stay in their groove is significantly more important than letting someone lined up to finish 5th in their singles pool get into theirs, especially when you can't have it both ways

and far more often than not, you still CAN have it both ways (don't call the pools for the players in loser's finals, have the winner's finals winners play all the pools matches they can as soon as pools start, then go play grand finals, then come back and finish their pool in plenty of time)

i personally strongly dislike the lackadaisical way we handle things in norcal; the tournament ended at like past midnight because the prevailing opinion is "we have time". if we had actually tried to time crunch it, we could've easily been done much earlier. even the T.O. didn't show up til well past 1 p.m.

 

[Mogwai]

once it hits it's ****

except when they CC it

 

[legion598]

Omg I Threw Away Darkrains Chipotle

 

[Scar]

except when they CC it

ya then it sucks

 

[greenlink]

edit:: if you dont mind me asking, wtf is your avatar, greenlink?

looks like a rejected barney character

Flippy the frog, maybe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTqFnVo2RWI&feature=related
Enjoy the best 4 minutes of your life

 

[Deleted member]

you can reserve the 1 setup for the teams matches and just defer the pools matches for those players

letting the players in the money for teams get in // stay in their groove is significantly more important than letting someone lined up to finish 5th in their singles pool get into theirs, especially when you can't have it both ways

and far more often than not, you still CAN have it both ways (don't call the pools for the players in loser's finals, have the winner's finals winners play all the pools matches they can as soon as pools start, then go play grand finals, then come back and finish their pool in plenty of time)

i personally strongly dislike the lackadaisical way we handle things in norcal; the tournament ended at like past midnight because the prevailing opinion is "we have time". if we had actually tried to time crunch it, we could've easily been done much earlier. even the T.O. didn't show up til well past 1 p.m.

ya i never quite understood why sheridan made us leave when all 4 of us were right there ready to play

the tourney was super legit though even though it took tooo long

(and i got pulled over by a cop on the drive home)

 

[Todd Bonney]

How do you beat Samus with Falcon? My main problem is that knee usually doesn't KO, and then I can't edgeguard.

Also, I eat neutral airs all the time and she is floaty so I can't combo her as well as other characters.

What do?

 

[Devil Ray]

scar, wtf is your job that you work 80 hours for? you a daytime prostitute or an investment banker?

and where is big D at? i was certain i'd see him at smym



edit: scar, do you remember when i zero to death'ed you twice at event 52 in kansas....and then you still won the match? you killed me with upsmash to knee like 3 times or some shiz

 

[Nakamaru]

i know this has been asked a bunch of times, but wtf do you do against fox. Nair beats everything and is 2x as fast as any of your arials.

Should i play it like the peach matchup? Run away and wait for an opening, or try and nair/bair spam until something hits?

 

[Deleted member]

The textbook answer is to camp fox, use defensive n-airs (2nd hit n-air beats foxes or at worst trades), do NOT attack out of shield if Fox is shield pressuring with n-airs/b-airs unless the fox you are facing is terrible. You have to get the **** away so roll, wavedash out of shield get away from fox so he stops ****** u.

if fox approaches wrecklessly you can do defensive stomps or grabs

The n-air comes out faster than Falcon's aerials but if Falcon's aerial is already out most of the time it will trade

capitalize heavily off of grabs, you can't really keep up with fox without lethal grab combos if the fox doesn't suck

 

[Animal]

ur nair is ****, space well, grab. retreating stomps/bair/kness. dont go near the edge.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTqFnVo2RWI&feature=related
Enjoy the best 4 minutes of your life

this was absolutely hilarious

 

[Nakamaru]

The n-air comes out faster than Falcon's aerials but if Falcon's aerial is already out most of the time it will trade

Should i try and delay my nairs or pop them out as soon as possible?

 

[BigD!!!]

ray chun i was way way far away

but im back now and have internet again

and got first place in a tournament for the first time ever recently

1st out of 7 in a $1 tourney

i only used falcon in one match on brinstar though, sorry guys

 

[GooeyBanana]

So I'm currently in the process of erasing Brinstar from my list of viable counterpicks(everyone secondaries Puff apparently now...) and am working constantly on FoD so that I don't have to ban that stage anymore, unless it's against like...Marth.

Anyways, I have a question. Why does Falcon decide to be good at random times? Like I swear, I was doing friendlies with IHSB Saturday night/Sunday morning and one match on FD vs. his Samus got me all hot and bothered. Like I was doing rather well, doing throws to uair and uair'ing him when he was above me and just in general doing the right thing against Samus for once, then we're both last stock and I was almost 100% for certain would connect after I chased him offstage from like a knee that he DI'd rather well, so I run off, full hop uair to double jump KNE-.......****, it didn't connect? I swear he HAD to survival DI because it was FoD, how did the knee not connect ;_;? I cried man tears as I lost the match...

Also, I think I'm learning the Fox matchup better now =D I had Eggm in my pools at SMYM and both matches were him 1 stocking me, high %(keep in mind, it was 3 stocks though for time's sakes but I don't care lol) I learned that you HAVE to get those tech chases to connect, and edgeguarding is extremely important as well. If I had done the edgeguarding bit, I think I could've taken at least a match off of him. Try to move your shield around, especially upwards when the Fox approaches with aerials to try and throw off their L-cancel times and overall play passive, yet aggressive once you get that grab -> tech chase off.

 

[Nakamaru]

The reason gooey is because falcon is the best burst character in the game. Get rolling and you **** everything. It just stops at random times so you have to be careful.

It sounds stupid but thats what i've come to see of a lot of falcon players. Save SS who has the **** button.

 

[JPeGImage]

i didn't play a match for nearly 2 hours after loser's semis, and the next set i played was loser's finals

in between i finished my lunch and took a nap

yea, that sux. Im sorry to hear that
I just assumed that the doubles tourney was run just as smooth after pools were called and that the livestream tv was reserved for the doubles matches.
didnt know you had to wait longer than even a half hour for ur Lfinals

good points and stuff

I agree completely
I just assumed thats what was reasonably decided upon and what was happening. didnt really pay attention to it that day.
I'll have to stop doing that, I guess, otherwise risk making an *** outta u n me =p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTqFnVo2RWI&feature=related
Enjoy the best 4 minutes of your life

Thank you
You might have just bettered me in every way possible
=D

How do you beat Samus with Falcon? My main problem is that knee usually doesn't KO, and then I can't edgeguard.

Also, I eat neutral airs all the time and she is floaty so I can't combo her as well as other characters.

What do?

I actually love this MU, one of the few ones where uber aggression can work up to higher skill levels (not top sami, though) and I can revert back to my old play style when I would ONLY play this mu, only to find I suk at everything else when I went to a few tournies. . . . =p
-When edgeguarding, to beat their auto-sweetspots via grapple, I just jump on the ledge or make sure to reset myself on RIGHT before they throw their grapple and just sit there. They HAVE to get up before you do and once they do, they will pop up right above you, allowing you to uair them backwards or fair or bair (uair is more reliable and I havent tried dair before)
now, samus CAN semi-counter this by walljump-nairing, and it would force you to start reacting faster, but you can still trade, once you do, and knock em back outside with no jump/grapple. And then you can just edgeguard w/ utilt/bair/edgehog(preferred, just dont make it obvious what youre doing it until theyre at the threshold point (point at which they cant recover onto the edge and require the ledge))
--Comboing: true, regular combos dont usually work, but you can nair/uair chain at real early %'s and from 60-120% round you can nair->knee as long as you are on point with the lcancel
uthrow->uair is better, imo, at early %'s. Can usually get at least two uairs outta it
-samus' nairs: ima bit sketchy on this (as it'd prolly depends on the situation), but just try to bait nairs at times and bair the back of them
-well spaced fairs and bairs can beat them head on
-and I would prolly just bait->block->shieldgrab falling nairs that arent spaced (usually arent)
-someone said this earlier, but also throwing out fast SH dairs and nairs past the samus' shield will scare them to start throwing out random aerials that can be easily punish because theyre usually so slow
-lots of uairs when theyre above you work wonders (dont necessarily need to be combo'd into anything). And I found that if you below and in front of them, a FF nair by them will trade with an uair by you most of the time. So just factor that in to when you use them

and just space well, in general, cause there's little they can do about it if you do (unless you allow them to play their WD/Ftilt game in hopes to slow you down/push you in an uncomfortable spot on the stage
tell me if im way off about something or you have a ?

i only used falcon in one match on brinstar though, sorry guys

Gratz on 1st
and yea, I might have teared alil seeing that

 

[Aussierob123]

Would it be extremely beneficial for me to learn how to apply wavedashing out of shield with falcon? Like obviously I can do it, but I never do it in the heat of a tournament match. Would it be useful for me to start learning the best times to do it?

Any tips on when it's probably the best choice would be appreciated too. ATM i sort of just short hop out of sheild if I can't punish for whatever reason.

 

[4% APR]

ray chun i was way way far away

but im back now and have internet again

and got first place in a tournament for the first time ever recently

1st out of 7 in a $1 tourney

i only used falcon in one match on brinstar though, sorry guys

where were you?

 

[BigD!!!]

i was in florida

around miami

 

[jetfour]

Would it be extremely beneficial for me to learn how to apply wavedashing out of shield with falcon? Like obviously I can do it, but I never do it in the heat of a tournament match. Would it be useful for me to start learning the best times to do it?

Any tips on when it's probably the best choice would be appreciated too. ATM i sort of just short hop out of sheild if I can't punish for whatever reason.

I'm starting to incorporate that actually. Specifically, against full jumping Foxes. Uair out of shield just nips them for a bit of damage, but if you're patient and bait them with your shield, the wd spaces you well for a dd grab. As we all know, grab = death.

 

[Deleted member]

falcon vs samus is pretty easy unless you suk or face hugs, who makes it 50-50 at WORST for samus

 

[Devil Ray]

i was in florida

around miami

ah, oh well. smym was pretty rough for me. btw, i don't think i've seen you since Vro's smashfest.

 

[Nocturnalist]

on that Falcon vs Shiek match up is it best now to fast fall Fairs and Nairs?i get shield grab like poop on a stick..

 

[Deleted member]

if u get shield grabbed u are not spacing correctly and/or not fast falling correctly especially with f-air

optimally a good knee on shield lets u stick in a wimpy jab before they can shield grab

 

[Nocturnalist]

if u get shield grabbed u are not spacing correctly and/or not fast falling correctly especially with f-air

optimally a good knee on shield lets u stick in a wimpy jab before they can shield grab

could you give me some examples of not fast falling correctly pls.or spacing wise

 

[jetfour]

You're just not hitting low enough with the knee. It should be as low as it can. If you're still getting grabbed, then you didn't L-Cancel or jab fast enough.

 

[Roneblaster]

how do you link something, but have the text that you click on not be the website address?

 

[Mogwai]

(url=http://google.com)Something stupid here!(/url)

replace with square brackets

Something stupid here!

 

[Roneblaster]

am i doing it right?

thanks mogwai, <3

 

[DippnDots]

if u get shield grabbed u are not spacing correctly and/or not fast falling correctly especially with f-air

optimally a good knee on shield lets u stick in a wimpy jab before they can shield grab

Can you retreat from a shield shield pressure with the nair if you're too close, seems like faster chars always wavedash oos and grab me when i try the nair.

my falcon spacing is, sub par at best. if you do get too close to their shield is there any safe way to step back a little bit or are they going to punish you?

and uh, my horse is amazing

 

[ETWIST51294]

I'm ****in finally unbanned.

****ing ch!bo.

How do I get past a needle camping Sheik?

 

[Mogwai]

pick Fox or get way better than she.

 

[tubes]

I'm fukkin finally unbanned.

fukkin ch!bo.

How do I get past a needle camping Sheik?

Nair over standing needle, get in her face, scare her into making a mistake and punish it. It's like fighting a laser camping Falco with a ****tier projectile and longer legs.