Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[KirbyKaze]

homie

i bet if you ask them both if they need rest they would say probably not. she doesnt always need it.

I never said she always needed it. But her quality of character certainly drops a lot without it, and there are a lot of matches that are only won because of it. Matches that involve lots of money on the line?

like i said it would only be completely necessary for a comeback. but jiggs' air mobility and ability to gimp, edgegaurd, and crouch grabs, and her smashes which are pretty freakin good just make her good. rest is just like a trump card just in case she really needs it.

I don't think I'm necessarily disagreeing with this. I'm just noting that it's amazing how often that trump card needs to be played.

and i said that jiggs' ability to rest is like samus having a fully charged charge shot. its intimidating. you never know when theyre gonna use it. thats not a terrible comparison at all. you probably just misread it.

I read the intimidation thing but I still think the comparison is poor. The fact that one is a projectile, that Rest comes out in one frame, that Rest can be used in close combat because of duck --> Rest and shield --> Rest whereas Charge Beam depends on a combo setup because it's too slow in close combat, the disparity in knockback, etc.

 

[jetfour]

I believe that spacies without shine would drop more spots.

Anyways guys, when is the next huge tourney in Cali? I want to go experience my first out-of-state smash this summer and meet you homies.

 

[Roneblaster]

jiggs without rest >>>>>>> Spacies without shine

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't think I've disagreed with that.

But that's also because space animals have everything that you'd possibly want to have with Shine.

 

[jetfour]

To expand on that:
We can try thinking a little backwards here. What if Jiggs had shine and spacies had rest? Falco dair into rest is brooooken. Jiggs with Fox's shinespikes would also be ridiculous.

 

[P.C. Jona]

To expand on that:
We can try thinking a little backwards here. What if Jiggs had shine and spacies had rest? Falco dair into rest is brooooken. Jiggs with Fox's shinespikes would also be ridiculous.

lmao thats because she has like 50 jumps all you would have to do is back throw off the stage and keep trying lol

also fox with rest you could probably dthrow and then rest lmao

anyways were all talking about stupid stuff that has nothing to do with anything just our "imagination" *rainbow*


so...falcon is terrible

anyone wanna join me in maining falco?

lol

 

[BigD!!!]

jiggs with shinespikes wouldnt be too bad, shes too slow vertically to catch people most of the time, edgeguarding with her aerials is way better due to mobility being preserved and greater range

whereas space animals with rest could throw to rest, aerial to rest, dash attack to rest, probably drill rest with fox even, dashdance then just run into them and rest because they move so fast, etc.

which move do people think is better, fox's shine or falco's shine? i actually think fox could cope without shine pretty well, but falco would lose a lot of combo potential

jona i might main falco now

and hey guys i can beat samus now, i just have to go ganon

 

[spider_sense]

jiggs with shinespikes wouldnt be too bad, shes too slow vertically to catch people most of the time, edgeguarding with her aerials is way better due to mobility being preserved and greater range

whereas space animals with rest could throw to rest, aerial to rest, dash attack to rest, probably drill rest with fox even, dashdance then just run into them and rest because they move so fast, etc.

which move do people think is better, fox's shine or falco's shine? i actually think fox could cope without shine pretty well, but falco would lose a lot of combo potential

jona i might main falco now

and hey guys i can beat samus now, i just have to go ganon

You don't play no ******* Ganon.

 

[BigD!!!]

i beat watty with ganon in 2 sets on friday

and watty is the ****ing MAN

 

[JPOBS]

the fact that everyone agrees jiggs without rest >>> spacies wth shine

proves that shine is the best move in the game because it singlehandly makes space animals top 2 whereas jiggs without rest is actually still pretty good.

edit: also, fox's shine > than falcos shine for two reasons
1. fox's shine can kill on any stage at any percent vs anyone. Falco's never kills unless its yoshies and even then nts only vs a few chars

2. Both of their shines combo into stuff, but falco's shine becomes less good the higher percent the opponents get. Fox's shine utility is constant and independent of opponents damage. this is key because fox can combo into kill moves at ANY percent whereas past 100 or so falco has difficulty combo'ing into kills.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Shine does not make space animals top tier by itself.

This is pretty derailed and I'll reply to you later at some point JPOBS, probably by PM because this has been pretty off-topic.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

Get'em david!

 

[BEES]

edit: also, fox's shine > than falcos shine for two reasons
1. fox's shine can kill on any stage at any percent vs anyone. Falco's never kills unless its yoshies and even then nts only vs a few chars

2. Both of their shines combo into stuff, but falco's shine becomes less good the higher percent the opponents get. Fox's shine utility is constant and independent of opponents damage. this is key because fox can combo into kill moves at ANY percent whereas past 100 or so falco has difficulty combo'ing into kills.

true but Falco's shine gives him more combo options at low and mid percents

edit: also, it seems like everyone other than you agrees the spacies would become BETTER if they had the rest instead of the shine. What does that indicate?

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

JPOBS i don't mean to be rude but you sound like a n00b :/

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falco's Shine is the best launcher in the game on a character with no whoamagod outright killing aerial.

If you stick Falco with Sheik's Uair, Falcon's Knee, or something along those lines then his Shine looks a hell of a lot better than it currently does, especially at high percents.

 

[Roneblaster]

this is some good falcon conversation.

 

[otg]

Wtf is there to talk about Falcon? You nair a lot, grab -> knee. Am I missing somethin?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Tap back and forth on the control stick a lot.

 

[Divinokage]

Well personally, I didn't find anything that's revolutionary either.. lol. Except I can Kage Special with Falcon as well =)

Knee through shield, Bad DI... and then the guy dies =) But it's hard to setup that one without being somewhat obvious with it. It's hard to hit a certain hitbox with knee to hit the feet or the head. It's much easier with Backair or Upair.. the downair is more tricky than Ganon, you really have to hit the tip of the feet on the side.

 

[Animal]

qualities to a good falcon, good comboing skill, good at reading, good at punishing, good at tech chasing, good DI

Basically explained how to be good with every character but w.e lol

 

[$mike]

yo scar, s2j, or any other good falcons, i need help

i had a hard time with this good sheik in tournament. he basically stayed grounded, did not approach, and charged/shot needles at me occasionally.

this guy's techchasing on falcon is near flawless. every time i got grabbed, i either got 60+ damage or died. i was able to save myself a few times by smash di'ing jab resets, but that was my only hope.

i wasn't a wreck, though. i ****ed him up more than half of the time off grabs i got on him, but he just grabbed me more (= death). so the matches were close, but i had a really hard time.

how do you beat a sheik like this?

 

[JPOBS]

JPOBS i don't mean to be rude but you sound like a n00b :/

lol i just got *****

true but Falco's shine gives him more combo options at low and mid percents

edit: also, it seems like everyone other than you agrees the spacies would become BETTER if they had the rest instead of the shine. What does that indicate?

it doesnt really say anything at all.

you're taking qualities of two characters that naturally combo everything into and out of shine and telling me 'now imagine if instead of combo'ing, the shine just killed people outright"

its not even fair, if falco/fox had rest and as many setups into it as they do for shine then of course that would just be ridiculous.

 

[Divinokage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vphTto5RzLc&feature=related You don't beat a Sheik like this lol.

 

[Roneblaster]

you dont beat sheik.

sorry, you picked the wrong character.

^ ninajed

 

[Divinokage]

you dont beat sheik.

sorry, you picked the wrong character.

^ ninajed

Well there was no Inb4DarkrainvsM2k ... so.. ya. =)

 

[otg]

Tap back and forth on the control stick a lot.

Of course, I missed the most obvious one.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I found this really good technique vs Sheik.

What you do is you press L-R-A-START and move your coin to this bird lookin' thing called "Flaco" I think. With this technique you can stand a chance against Sheik.

 

[P.C. Jona]

yo scar, s2j, or any other good falcons, i need help

i had a hard time with this good sheik in tournament. he basically stayed grounded, did not approach, and charged/shot needles at me occasionally.

this guy's techchasing on falcon is near flawless. every time i got grabbed, i either got 60+ damage or died. i was able to save myself a few times by smash di'ing jab resets, but that was my only hope.

i wasn't a wreck, though. i ****ed him up more than half of the time off grabs i got on him, but he just grabbed me more (= death). so the matches were close, but i had a really hard time.

how do you beat a sheik like this?

homie, truth be told

youll have way better luck going another character vs sheik

i like falco vs sheik cuz she cant deal with sheild pressure that well.

sheik is ******** and if the sheik is as good as you say off of grabs, your screwed

 

[KirbyKaze]

???

I thought Sheik was okay against shield pressure as far as characters that can do stuff about shield pressure go.

 

[otg]

You're talking to PC JONA nucka. This kid invented tech chasing along with our homie.

 

[Animal]

eh i only play scrub sheiks so idk, i dont really care either i main fox so holla.

 

[P.C. Jona]

???

I thought Sheik was okay against shield pressure as far as characters that can do stuff about shield pressure go.

well what can she do?

then only thing i can imagine is rolling, trying to wd out would probably get you hit no?

You're talking to PC JONA nucka. This kid invented tech chasing along with our homie.

HOMIE

we invented tech chasing, shield pressure, L canceling, Melee, Sakurai, and Earth.

we also trained MK in brawl to be as gay as possible. and were recently training Doc to become MK

nigggaaa.....

 

[Animal]

nair outta sheild? isnt that **** for sheiks?

 

[P.C. Jona]

i mean... if your doing some good shield pressure (like PC Jona) then i dont think u would have time for that

anyways thats not the entire matchup, but still thats one of the reasons i like falco vs sheik

i dont find myself suffering to approach or getting autocombo'd to 300% like i do with falcon

 

[DtJ Jungle]

nair out of shield is **** for sheiks.


and jona, pretty sure you do. sheiks neutral air comes out on frame 3 (obv :12: not including jump + shield stun and whatever). 7 including jump

 

[Animal]

all i know is S2j said to jsut bait an approach up air if they try to aerial and shield grab there dash. actually helped alottttt. Good thing to do i found, if your semi close to sheik not close enough to grab there kinda spamming ftilit roll backwards to create more space and some noob sheiks will try and dash almost all the time. shield grab that ish

 

[P.C. Jona]

nair out of shield is **** for sheiks.


and jona, pretty sure you do. sheiks neutral air comes out on frame 3 (obv :12: not including jump + shield stun and whatever). 7 including jump

dam thats pretty quick

 

[ETWIST51294]

 

[ChivalRuse]

all i know is S2j said to jsut bait an approach up air if they try to aerial and shield grab there dash. actually helped alottttt. Good thing to do i found, if your semi close to sheik not close enough to grab there kinda spamming ftilit roll backwards to create more space and some noob sheiks will try and dash almost all the time. shield grab that ish

Also, don't forget, if you know Sheik'll ftilt, you can CC it (at lowish percents) and dash -> JC grab her.

 

[KirbyKaze]

nair out of shield is **** for sheiks.


and jona, pretty sure you do. sheiks neutral air comes out on frame 3 (obv :12: not including jump + shield stun and whatever). 7 including jump

It's 6.

The 4 frame jump means airborne on frame 4. You can do actions on that frame.

So it winds up being 6. Which is faster than grab, for what that's worth.

By virtue of having that crazy good jump startup she also has a stupid fast WD OoS, which is very useful.

Unless you're talking a whole bunch of multishines and shine-grabs, Sheik has some good ways out of her shield.