Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[Fortress | Sveet]

i just got done with proxy gate practice.


**** JUST GOT REAL.

fix' d

 

[Roneblaster]

no time for sc right now. between melee practice and a little bit of MvC 3, im already ignoring homework. lolol

 

[Palpi]

Can you L-cancel yet?

 

[Roneblaster]

i can lcancel, my biggest problem is dashing out of them.

 

[KirbyKaze]

i have a paper due tomorrow and a midterm

but i practiced my sheik ditto cg at 0 for like an hour and thought about how i could finish it more homosexually

and about gayer combos to do vs space animals / falcon

and worked on some random anti-peach spacing bull****

melee is the worst thing ever for my school habits

 

[Shroomed]

i have a paper due tomorrow and a midterm

but i practiced my sheik ditto cg at 0 for like an hour and thought about how i could finish it more homosexually

and about gayer combos to do vs space animals / falcon

and worked on some random anti-peach spacing bull****

melee is the worst thing ever for my school habits

i failed ALL of my classes one semester when i was first getting decent at smash

 

[Palpi]

Shroomed and his priorities.

 

[Mizar]

i can lcancel, my biggest problem is dashing out of them.

You tryin full jump, dair at the end, cancel ->run?

This way you kinda leave the jump out of it and can focus more on the cancel->run timing.

 

[_Rocky_]

sup again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRL03FazH6E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ccwErb33fo

second match is terrible loooooool
watching these i think i have a rough idea of what to work with but help would be nice =)

 

[0Room]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12196221&postcount=3

 

[Mokumo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw1dtFA8sDQ#t=2m15s

wtf just happened and how do i do that every time?

 

[Shroomed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw1dtFA8sDQ#t=2m15s

wtf just happened and how do i do that every time?

mind = blown

if falcon's can start doing that we're all ****ed

 

[JPOBS]

he got dair'd, and got got edge cancelled. what i cant figure out tho is how come his b-up didnt overshoot the ledge.

theres no way falcon's startup can grab ledge....can it?

 

[Mokumo]

did he even do it on purpose??

i've literally never seen that before

 

[0Room]

he got dair'd, and got got edge cancelled. what i cant figure out tho is how come his b-up didnt overshoot the ledge.

theres no way falcon's startup can grab ledge....can it?

did he even do it on purpose??

i've literally never seen that before

Yeah it's pretty easy to do, though usually not on purpose. Computers do this a lot if you play them and spike them so they're laying on the ground as they fall off of the edge.
What happens is that your knockback and hitstun are all canceled as you fall off [as they're all applied as you hit the ground] so if you fall off and jump immediately you can really get back quickly.
It's again, not really easy to do on purpose [as it's more in your opponents hands than yours] but you can possible SDI in to do something similar to that to make it push you out, but you hit the stage instead and fall off.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

look closer, he up-B'd just before he grabbed the ledge. I'd guess it had something to do with the direction he was moving because of the dair.

Magus
Magus420

 

[mers]

Falcon's Up-B startup can grab the ledge in certain situations. The easiest one to notice is if you grab the ledge on Battlefield, then drop down and doublejump up underneath the lip of the stage, then as you hit the ceiling Up-B away from center stage, sometimes you will instantly grab the ledge.

I'm pretty sure the game has to read you as descending for you to grab the ledge (I assume that's why Fox/Falco can sweetspot from above but not from below). My guess in the Battlefield situation is that the stage is "thicker" by the ledge and "thinner" towards center stage, so as Falcon slides along the ceiling he descends slightly while entering the ledgesnap range, so he grabs it.

In GG7's situation, my best guess is that some momentum from Falco's dair remained after he edgecanceled, so as he started his Up-B he was still descending, and therefore able to grab the ledge.

EDIT:

Also, is Magus real anymore? I haven't seen him in forever.

 

[JPOBS]

what?^^ falco/fox can sweetspot from below :/

but i've never seen falcon grab edge with his startup so idk this game is weird

 

[Mokumo]

i feel like everyone's guessing at this point. lol

whatevski im going to a ballet. peace

 

[mers]

what?^^ falco/fox can sweetspot from below :/

but i've never seen falcon grab edge with his startup so idk this game is weird

By sweetspot I mean grab the ledge before their up-B is complete. Sure, any character can start their up-B at the perfect distance below the ledge and just barely grab it, but I mean when you angle down and snap to the ledge.

I think it's the same thing with their up-B stalls. Have you ever started your up-B as Fox or Falco really really close to the bottom blastline, then died before you started moving? That happens to me every now and then, I'm pretty sure their "charging" animation moves them downwards a few pixels, allowing them to snap to the ledge/touch the blastline.

I think every character that can direct their up-B can auto-grab the ledge with it from above. Sheik, Zelda, Pikachu, Pichu, etc. Jigglypuff can even do it with rollout.

 

[0Room]

Falcon's Up-B startup can grab the ledge in certain situations. The easiest one to notice is if you grab the ledge on Battlefield, then drop down and doublejump up underneath the lip of the stage, then as you hit the ceiling Up-B away from center stage, sometimes you will instantly grab the ledge.

I'm pretty sure the game has to read you as descending for you to grab the ledge (I assume that's why Fox/Falco can sweetspot from above but not from below). My guess in the Battlefield situation is that the stage is "thicker" by the ledge and "thinner" towards center stage, so as Falcon slides along the ceiling he descends slightly while entering the ledgesnap range, so he grabs it.

In GG7's situation, my best guess is that some momentum from Falco's dair remained after he edgecanceled, so as he started his Up-B he was still descending, and therefore able to grab the ledge.

EDIT:

Also, is Magus real anymore? I haven't seen him in forever.

Magus has a post on this
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4830464&postcount=24

Also, like Irish Mafia suggested, I hadn't noticed that the UpB was out
I thought we were just talking about the momentum gone
That upB didn't seem out of place to me, but I guess now that's kind of important

Hmm
I guess we do need Magus to answer our questions

 

[BigD!!!]

i think you grab the ledge anytime you move downward past it, its just almost impossible to be in a situation where that happens during falcons up b

 

[0Room]

Well I sent Magus a PM
So we'll see what he says.

 

[mers]

i think you grab the ledge anytime you move downward past it, its just almost impossible to be in a situation where that happens during falcons up b

You just summed up everything I said in one sentence. God ****it.

Edit:

Hey, I was right about the Battlefield thing! Cool!

 

[Mokumo]

i think you grab the ledge anytime you move downward past it, its just almost impossible to be in a situation where that happens during falcons up b

that sounds like the most reasonable explanation.... but of course there are a bunch of exceptions to a rule like that (falcon kick).

it would be awesome if we could get an in depth, frame-by-frame explanation of what's going on.

and i mean really if we can add this to our game that would be awesome. falcon upB ledge stalling? running off into a reverse upB to grab the edge - that's almost like brawl.

 

[Aussierob123]

he means if you are moving downwards during any animation that allows you to grab the ledge (i.e. using any any aerial past the ledge will stop you from grabbing it, but jumping / up B will always grab it, unless you're on battlefield and get ****ed over by the ledges).

It would be impossible to include in your game, the only reason he's moving down in his upB that early is because of the momentum of the dair.

 

[mers]

Step-by-step explanation as I understand it:

1. Falco dairs Falcon, giving him lots of downward momentum
2. Falcon hits the stage right next to the ledge and misses his tech
3. The slight sideways momentum from the dair pushes Falcon off the ledge, which ledgecancels the stun from the dair
4. Since Falcon is no longer in stun, he up-Bs, while still retaining the downward momentum from the dair (he also has his jump back at this point, but he loses it when he up-Bs)
5. Falcon is in a ledge-grab-allowed animation (his up-B) and he is moving downward, and he is within range of the ledge, so he grabs it.

K, pretty sure we've got it. Now good players should go back to making the rest of us less bad.

 

[Scar]

Thanks for the summary, mers.

As a side note, I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome everyone to celebrate I Killed Mufasa day with me, the day in which all three of the I Killed Mufasa combo videos were released, year after year, February 15th/16th.

Please click the following link and enjoy the fruits of my labor, and remember what Melee is truly about: ****.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=937817F2530E5EF6

 

[0Room]

Scar every time I watch those I still just go
"WTF scar, nooooooooooo. Noooooooooo. Not okay."

 

[Teczer0]

Wow awesome Scar xD

*favorites*

 

[Roneblaster]

i killed a shy-guy during a tech chase and finished it with stomp knee for the guys last stock.


YOU JELLY!?

also, i <3 scar.

 

[Roneblaster]

How do you fight peach???

i have one in my pool, and the only person i've ever played who has any exp. with peach was beating me somewhat solidly.

 

[0Room]

How do you fight peach???

i have one in my pool, and the only person i've ever played who has any exp. with peach was beating me somewhat solidly.

Find a video and upload it
Until then

Wheel of fortune
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INgI5BEbjNk

Basically you want to space uairs, DD grabs, go dthrow->uair->uair->uair->knee
Be very patient
VERY patient
VERYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY patient

And don't let her get you off edge

 

[BigD!!!]

nair and bair a lot, but always be conscious of her possible dash attack while doing it

at low %'s, uthrow uair for some easy combos, then above like 50 or so (somebody else can help out with specifics if they know) dthrow knee/uair knee on every throw

if you think shes gonna dsmash, you can sh stomp but dont fastfall it so then you wont trade, this also doubles for punishing spot dodge

peach is hard until you get experience, i guess thats true of everybody but peach's moves can be especially deceiving i think

choose dreamland over fd, that cg sucks and dthrow knee will still kill. stadium is a great counterpick

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

so any tips (from sheik's perspective)

I'm going to put up more vids after p5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emEaa0wSirA

I get whooped hard in the other vids =(

 

[0Room]

nair and bair a lot, but always be conscious of her possible dash attack while doing it

at low %'s, uthrow uair for some easy combos, then above like 50 or so (somebody else can help out with specifics if they know) dthrow knee/uair knee on every throw

Dthrow->knee doesn't work until late, like 80% or so
DI away ***** that
uair/nair will hit though

 

[Roneblaster]

hey tafo, the only advice i can give you is that your edgeguarding and tech chasing need work.

like one time in particular you predicted the tech in place and just jabbed and didn't get a follow up out of it.


as for edgeguarding, just always grab the edge and bair vs falcon. if he goes high just hit him back off. i know its hard to do it, but edgeguarding falcon when he goes low is pretty much 100% every time.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

thanks!

what about when we're feeling each other, aiming for a hit and snuffing out approaches? Anything you notice on how I can manuever in?

 

[Deleted member]

unbanned again

my last ban was because i said a tournament was a joke because no good players came and a brawl mod came in and said i was ****ed up and infracted me for trolling

they're out to get me

 

[BigD!!!]

i feel like ive gotten dthrow knee lower than 80 on DI away, but its probably hard below that anyway

if you throw right away they probably arent DIing away though, peach doesnt gain much from DIing away from combos while DIing up gets her out of a lot of **** so if you just throw right away and fulljump knee it will work earlier than 80