Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[NES n00b]

I thought I made it obvious for you. Why would you not hit the shield if you are safe while doing it but you can't just go in and grab? I have never been shined out of shield by a fox or a falco because I actually space. I don't know how the hell that would ever happen unless some mistake is made or something that is more a Falco or fox thing when on of them is doing some kind of pillar thing.

 

[KAOSTAR]

nesses actually use the jackets?

I mean Ive seen it once in I think simna storms combo vid. I have 2 friends that play ness. Indy dave who lives in hawaii and the other one doesnt play much ness.

So yea, dont kno **** about the little guy.

Edit: well I broke a guys shield twice today with falcon during friendlys.

So I like shield pressure lol. I just kept nairing the falcos shield and when he rolled away I chased and gave him time to shield then jab jab jab upsmash lol.

**** was tight

So I prob did two nairs 3 jabs and an upsmash along with him just shielding a bit

 

[P.C. Jona]

i feel you nes noob. you do what you want tho if i guess youre doing good with that keep it up, i just have a different opinion on it,

but tell me what do you expect when you hit the shields?
do you expect a roll so you can grab?
for them to keep shielding?
i dont seem to get it

 

[Strong Badam]

the thing is, Jona, shield pressure is good because when you put pressure on someone, they're more likely to make a mistake you can punish, and that's what Falcon is all about. this is true in general; all characters should be trying to put pressure on their opponent (be it shield pressure or otherwise) because at the top levels, players don't make mistakes very often unless you apply pressure.
not to mention a worn-down shield is a deterrent from future shielding, and your opponent might get hit by something they otherwise wouldn't have.

 

[BigD!!!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0UjQNlpCPE

shield pressure 101

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCB31g4FUvY&feature=related

shield pressure 102

 

[Meneks]

The Ecstasy of Gold (Enio Moricone)
Good song

 

[Zephyr]

Nesses don't use the jackets.

If they do, you shouldn't be letting them. o_0 Seriously, those jackets take some jacked up **** to set up, and there's no way they should be able to put on any jackets while playing falcon. Or anyone. Ever.

 

[Tomacawk]

shield pressure 102 made me grin. I love that video, haven't seen it in awhile
also jona it's not so much "what should I expect"...I for one expect rolls > dodges, but that doesn't matter, you want to react in a situation where they're in their shield because you've got the upper hand and as long as you space and dd correctly you shouldn't get hit or anything like that, so you just wait it out and react
also you don't have to go to tournies to be really smart
jona just happens to not go to tournies and also happens to sometimes post unintelligently, it's just a coincidence
NOTE-I don't think somebody can be good MECHANICALLY without tourny exp, but they can certainly be knowledgeable.

 

[P.C. Jona]

i would like to refute that last sentence
ive been playing for like a year without going to tournies
ive played with scar, sensei, cort, mogwai, hax, dj nintendo, swiftbass and probably some other people im just forgetting

im gonna go to my first tourney this saturday hopefully
im looking to do really well
i've been getting my tech chasing down really well, like really well

so if i do bad, i guess it would be true. but i dont think so, so we'll see

 

[Scar]

also you don't have to go to tournies to be really smart

you need tournies to be GOOD, that's the point

you can be smart like me without ever having heard of smash but still play like a moron, i was always a smart kid and i knew a lot about the game but i still played stupidly for the first 2.5 years of playing the game

also you can **** people within your region for 6 years like SS and still not be good against new styles i.e. genesis

and i think it's pretty obvious with me because im really good vs some styles of play but others just beat me

tournies turn you into a more solid player

 

[BigD!!!]

you wont ever have a thorough understanding of what is a good idea and what isnt, what is reliable and what isnt, etc. without going to tournaments and playing a wide variety of people

you can learn frame data and stuff and use terms like ASDI, but then you'll show up to a tournament and find out that stuff has nothing to do with playing the game well

 

[soap]

ajj played like no one but me for a year and a half before i finally was able to drag his *** to a tourney at momos. although the subsequent tourney experience did make a world of difference.

but u can become decent without tournies. you just have to play people that do go to tournies lol.

it's kinda bull****, i was the one putting in all the travel time and money to get better, and he was like siphoning off my experience through friendlies haha.

 

[BigD!!!]

yeah but he was bad at that momos tourney

then he was mediocre at that one middle of ohio tourney

then he was pretty good at that purdue tourney

and purdue was like 2 years after that momo's tourney

 

[DippnDots]

Big D speaks truth, i'm still pretty bad but the last three tournaments have taught me more than the others combined.

 

[NES n00b]

If there wasn't any midwest tourneys, I don't think I would have gotten a smidge better provided the same time period.

 

[soap]

case in point, Jona u r a noob

 

[P.C. Jona]

IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK

we'll see at the tourney saturday
i have a controller now

 

[soap]

rapeee

i remember my first smash controller.

it was black.

they only have platinum nowadays

 

[P.C. Jona]

the one i just bought is black

 

[Afro_Chris]

the one i just bought is black

get ***** soap

 

[KAOSTAR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0UjQNlpCPE

shield pressure 101

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCB31g4FUvY&feature=related

shield pressure 102

The air gentleman was cool.


the other guy should have wall teched the **** outta there

 

[DunSkies]

when do u wave dash out of shield vs rolling?

 

[Scar]

wd OOS is really good for spacing, not so much for like getting out of there

for example if someone is like ****** your shield with really strong slow moves, WD oos and then run away because the other dude is probably doing something slow

but if falco is pillaring your **** etc and you try to wd OOS, he's just hitting you with fast stuff so you probably won't be able to get away by just running, rolling is way better vs that kind of shield pressure

 

[DunSkies]

can u link me a video or 2 i can study?

 

[Scar]

lol not really, i think i wavedash oos more than any other falcon but i just do it whenever, i get trapped in my shield a lot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4bVzq0xPSc get ***** fox

 

[DunSkies]

lol ur right that didnt realy help at all. wd oos to grab? wd oos to shield lol.i know u do it really well though i sow u do it great at genesis. ill just serf on ur channel for a bit.

???fox got *****

 

[Scar]

yeah uh wd oos into shield is silly idk why i do that, i like it when spacing though, like vs a fox approaching with nair sometimes it'll throw their timing off so they predictably miss and l-cancel or a shine or something

otherwise it's best to wd OOS into dashing away, or anything so that you're not stuck in your shield again

 

[BigD!!!]

you can wd oos to get away from spacey shield pressure

i know its intimidating, but believe in yourself

due to slight inspiration from scar i've been wavedashing oos to fsmash on spaceys, theyre usually on too much autopilot to adjust in time, its nothing gamebreaking but throw it in occasionally when youre at low % and theyre killable

wd oos on marth is great, obviously to punish fsmash but less obviously if he's spacing aerials on your shield; wd back oos and you can really easily dash in afterwards and grab him

scar every vid i see you just guess in place for every tech chase

even at :45 when you stomped and he obviously was DIing in for the knee, that should be automatic dash past and forward b back at the very least

i know you can do it man

nominate me for the back room hahaha

and holy **** richard i almost forgot that this was your smash name

 

[P.C. Jona]

if you read the tech in place/no tech
you always have time to get the grab as long as you do it fast enough
always

 

[BigD!!!]

not if you tech chase like a man

and throw stomps and knees where you guess

 

[P.C. Jona]

thats what i meant
if you read the tech in place/no tech with knee you always have time to get the grab
thats not really a guess but that just takes away an option

and then all they have is left or right, which you can catch with a grab

plus, at lower percents its smarter to just try and tech chase with grabs
because if you get a stomp you cant get a grab
you can knee>grab but thats hard

 

[BigD!!!]

im about 95% sure that you cannot, in fact, catch them with a grab if you do a stomp or knee in place

assuming you do the stomp or knee at a time when it would hit

if that were true, everyone would do it all the time and we would all easily beat space animals

 

[DtJ Jungle]

you most definitely cannot unless like you are playing like a dead guy or someone who likes to stand for a full second after they tech.

 

[P.C. Jona]

im about 95% sure that you cannot, in fact, catch them with a grab if you do a stomp or knee in place

assuming you do the stomp or knee at a time when it would hit

if that were true, everyone would do it all the time and we would all easily beat space animals

you most definitely cannot unless like you are playing like a dead guy or someone who likes to stand for a full second after they tech.

lmao you guys are serious?
i mean were talking about space animals fox/falco

were talking about downthrow, and then knee in the spot where they would land and tech in place or not tech.

if you miss you can most definitely get the grab
ive been doing it like crazy lately
scar did it at 45 where you said he shouldnt have done it, and he still got the grab
darkrain does it, ss does it, and hax too

i mean, get faster or something because its definitely possible
work on that if you cant
because thats what i love about tech chasing space animals
you can cover 2 options and if you dont get it you can still get the other 2 but you have to be fast

 

[DunSkies]

i like guessing in place with a down air. covers 2 options no tech and tech in place and its unpunishable if u messup ^_^

BIG D! how are u and ray doing?

 

[BigD!!!]

look at the one right after :45

thats a normal case; tech chasing off of a grab

its not even close, he never could have got there in time

you can try it sometimes and it will work, the one you pointed out was scar doing it off of a stomp so he had plenty of time to start that aerial nice and early

i know for sure, from having regularly conversed with lots of good falcon players, that nobody but you thinks that this is true, regardless of whether any of us have done it before

once you've competed as much as most of us have, you would realize that if it were possible to get 100% accuracy on tech chasing, everyone would do it all the time

the closest you can get is regrabbing over and over again, with the jab reset on the missed tech

its not an issue of speed or tech skill

DUNSKIES we are holding it down, good to see you gettin in on these boards

 

[P.C. Jona]

look at the one right after :45

thats a normal case; tech chasing off of a grab

its not even close, he never could have got there in time

you can try it sometimes and it will work, the one you pointed out was scar doing it off of a stomp so he had plenty of time to start that aerial nice and early

i know for sure, from having regularly conversed with lots of good falcon players, that nobody but you thinks that this is true, regardless of whether any of us have done it before

once you've competed as much as most of us have, you would realize that if it were possible to get 100% accuracy on tech chasing, everyone would do it all the time

the closest you can get is regrabbing over and over again, with the jab reset on the missed tech

its not an issue of speed or tech skill

the i was just going to post something about that, that he missed with a dair
i saw it

look at it again, when the fox starts the tech is when scar starts the short hop

you have to begin your short hop to the spot theyre gonna land as soon as you finish the down throw

pause it when the fox starts teching and see

and it is an issue of speed definitely, because i used to miss everytime, but i got a little faster and i got it down

 

[Meneks]

Falcon vs falcon How do you approach someone who is using the same character as you?

I also have a question on how to play Ice climbers..
What are some good cp stages that are in favor for falcon when playing ic's?

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

just dash dance until they approach you then you grab them

or you can whiff an approach on their dash dancing to get them to try to punish it and you just jab or gentleman or something to throw them off guard then you grab or whatever

 

[BigD!!!]

you can way overshoot your nairs and most falcons will have trouble dd grabbing you

against icies i sometimes really like yoshis story, but some climbers say they like that one against falcon as well

non neutrals are good in general vs climbers, brinstar or a moving stage especially, but watch out for them just switching off climbers

jona the way scar did it is the way you do it in order to ensure that the dair will land if they do tech in place