Scrub-Proof: The Competitive Ike Thread: Take Cover Here! -MOTD: Up Tilt!

[metroid1117]

Just a couple notes on UAir:

1. It's Ike's second best reliable vertical killing move; it kills roughly the same % as an USmash would, just a little higher.

2. The hitbox is odd; it first starts behind Ike, becomes visible as it travels to his front, and then goes to his back again.

On Jab:

USE THIS MOVE. THIS, ALONG WITH HIS HUGE RANGE AND KILL POWER, IS WHY IKE IS PLAYABLE.

Use this to make up for Ike's laggy aerials; keep your opponent from punishing for that missed FAir with your jab (which comes out in 2 frames, according to NoValombardia).

While holding down the jab button and abusing the jab system is extremely useful, tapping jab has its uses as well; tapping gives you more control over when to interrupt the combo in my opinion, and can also allow you to throw off people who try to SDI the third hit by changing up the rhythm. Jab -> jab -> DSmash can be good for people who are trying to SDI or jab -> jab -> grab.

 

[comboking]

jab:

good fast move a forward smash alternative

 

[VersatileBJN]

"Hey does anybody know if Ike's jab can cancel out projectiles? I read somewhere on the c. falcon forums that when you do an empty jab, aka holding A and doing the first jab over and over again, you would be able to cancel out some projectiles. Would anybody know if that's possible w/ Ike?"

Yes he can. A well timed Jab will cancel out Pikachu's projectile and others I assume. Perfecting this makes Ike vs Pikachu a lot simpler

 

[comboking]

yes it does if i remember right

 

[3xSwords]

Nice somebody get the timing down for jab canceling pit's arrows. I have done this w/ c. falcon so I'm guessing Ike can also do it.

 

[fire_wulf]

I have used jab to cancel out my friends toon link projectiles to make him approach me. If timed correctly.. you can knock out any arrow or boomerang he throws. You can also catch bombs by hitting A right when they hit you... or jump air dodge.

When you do this correctly.. a campy projectile user will be forced to approach Ike... or wait with their knees shaking as Ike approaches slowly knocking out their attempts at spacing.

 

[Betaz]

you know...except when those campy projectile users are...samus/lucario/ others with chargeable projectiles/spacies(**** you falco!)
also Pit can shoot at your legs/behind you(not likely for this though)
jabbing projectiles mostly works only on those weak ones...that are...solid?


also...has anyone tested to see if you can f-tilt charged projectiles?

 

[3xSwords]

I don't think so, and besides f-tilt is too slow to block of projectiles. It comes out at decent speed but it won't get the job done. Also do you guys prefer jab combo out of shield or shield grab more? I personally use shield grabs more but I think I should do some jabs out of shield to deal more damage.

 

[menofuntall]

Thanks to Ike's really bad grab range, I think I should be jabbing more. But I still shieldgrab if I'm close enough to, especially if my Jab is going stale.

You could use the F tilt to easily destroy the slower ones, like Samus's charged shot, or Lucario's Aura Sphere. Everything else is far too fast for the F tilt to work.

 

[3xSwords]

u-tilt might be a better choice to cancel things out but you would need better timing. Well we're getting a bit off topic. And can anybody explain the jab thing where you hold A and you will do the first two jabs and will keep reseting, and like why it works and how to do it. I read it in Versatile's post but I didn't understand how to get it to work.

Here's the quote:
"Holding back also works so well because of Brawl's jabbing engine in general. If a character is floating slightly off the ground, Jab will continue to reset to the first hit until the engine believes the 3rd hit can connect. Because of this you can have a lot of 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,2,3 series with Jab. Hold...don't tap. Can't stress that enough."

Is there a specific spacing where it depends how far away you are when you jab them? Is what I really meant.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

u-tilt might be a better choice to cancel things out but you would need better timing. Well we're getting a bit off topic. And can anybody explain the jab thing where you hold A and you will do the first two jabs and will keep reseting, and like why it works and how to do it. I read it in Versatile's post but I didn't understand how to get it to work.

Here's the quote:
"Holding back also works so well because of Brawl's jabbing engine in general. If a character is floating slightly off the ground, Jab will continue to reset to the first hit until the engine believes the 3rd hit can connect. Because of this you can have a lot of 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,2,3 series with Jab. Hold...don't tap. Can't stress that enough."

Is there a specific spacing where it depends how far away you are when you jab them? Is what I really meant.

im not sure exactly how it works but its happened to me tons of times and the easiest person to do against is probably ganondorf i read once that you can actually do it to him all the way across FD. all it is is that they are a bit off the ground its like your jabbing at the air where it just keeps going idk if its that part of the 2nd hit doesnt connect or what but it will just reset it self. sometimes though they end up going behind you and your 3rd hit registers but misses which can rly suck

i cant rly add much more to the jab thing because im problably one of those guys that miss uses it

 

[3xSwords]

I seriously need to see how this looks like. I'm assuming that this thing where you keep doing your first two jabs sort of looks like the "combat walk" if you know what I'm talking about. It can be DI'd of right?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I seriously need to see how this looks like. I'm assuming that this thing where you keep doing your first two jabs sort of looks like the "combat walk" if you know what I'm talking about. It can be DI'd of right?

yes it can thats why they somtimes end up behind you but even so if it happens at low % it gets a few hits in more than just AAA

and even though the uair topic is over i wanted to add that it actually k0s bowser at 2% higher than an uncharged usmash i actually thought it would have been like 20 % higher not just 2 i rly doubt that youll ever run into that 2 plus you can do uair off the ground so it could actually k0 at a lower precent than usmash. idk if the gap widens with lighters characters but im assuming it doesnt

 

[3xSwords]

lol the jab canceling thread is having a hissy fit so might as well start it back up here. Let's see all my knowledge of jab canceling combos is on the training cpu's so it means there was no DI. So I thought that jab canceling the first jab was better b/c there would be less time for the opponent to respond. However, recently I've noticed that the 2nd jab might be better b/c the first jab doesn't pop them up enough so they can shield but the 2nd jab does. I guess it was the no DI thing so against humans would jab canceling the first jab be better or the 2nd jab?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

i have no idea wich one is better i just always cancel on the 2nd on because im to slow to cancel on the 1st one i should go pratice it but im to lazy i kind of get board. btw when you guys have ike ditto matches against nubs do you play worse because today i was sucking a. i mean i can like 3 stock this guy when im rly into it but i actually lose to him when he chose ike and i was like wtf is wrong with me. this ever happen to any1? btw is there a limit on how strong a move jab can cancel because today i actually did it to that guys ftilt.


and on a kind of late topic can ike pivot grab? ive tried it in the waiting room but idk if its actually possible there but i still dont think ive ever seen an ike pivot grab.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

btw is there a limit on how strong a move jab can cancel because today i actually did it to that guys ftilt.

Its all a matter or priority. Ike's jabs have EXTREMELY high priority for a jab. I've practically seen it clash with everything save aerials and Smashes. It may be the key to developing Ike's game, defending everything with Jabs. =P

 

[Ussi]

ok, i got up-b out of my jab by marth >.> i'm like o.o wtf...

jab can cancels a few smashes >.>

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I knew Yuna wasn't bull****ting us. xD

And I knew I wasn't crazy when my friends were UpBing me relentlessly. xD

Which Smashes can you cancel with a jab? Holy Mcjebus!

-This is Trebor-Nella if you can't tell. =P

 

[Ussi]

i've canceled Sonic's down smash with a jab. so i'm assuming others can be canceled. I'm thinking basically any smash that uses someone's body that isn't high priority (DK, Ganon, Bowser etc are people not to jab there smashes against) I'm thinking maybe Samus's down/forward smash.

at first i though you were a Trebor poser xD

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

i've canceled Sonic's down smash with a jab. so i'm assuming others can be canceled. I'm thinking basically any smash that uses someone's body that isn't high priority (DK, Ganon, Bowser etc are people not to jab there smashes against) I'm thinking maybe Samus's down/forward smash.

at first i though you were a Trebor poser xD

I know I'm good, but I didn't think I was good enough to get mimicked. xD

Sonic's Dsmash is like all of his moves, stupidly low priority. I can't think of many characters that suffer that fate. Maybe CF?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

kool i need to pratice my jab alot more as a defensive attack. another thing i wanted to ask is there another attack besides QD and Nair that you can jab out of pretty fast? and idk if some1 has asked this before but is jabing out of a shield better than grabing?

and off topic but still about ike can he pivot grab? because no1 ever talked about this durring the grab portion im thinking you cant but can any1 reassure me?

 

[Ussi]

emphasis on few and smashes without high priority.

 

[3xSwords]

You can pivot grab. Its just that Ike has no grab range, so pivot grab is said to increase the range, but he's so slow that I'd rather just grab them out right and save some time instead of running into them and pivot grabbing. Also that someone that asked if jabbing out of shield is better than shield grabbing was me. Where's the respect *sniff* lol.

Using jab to cancel others moves is good but I think its too risky. I say you're better off just power shielding the move. Now its my turn to go of topic. Does power shielding still reflect projectiles back at the opponent b/c I have yet to see this happen.

 

[Betaz]

no it does not :/ however I've had the few times that I've powershielded one and it went back(by back I mean strait back the way it came...not bounceing off my shield upwards)....but the projectile will no longer hit anything

 

[Empy]

It seems that powershielding normally does not affect projectiles. I think that if you are frame-perfect (or maybe somewhere near it?) like in Melee, it does seem to go back. I'm pretty sure I've seen some reflected, but it's pretty rare.

 

[Phillyfanboy]

What about uptilt out of the nocontactQD. Useful or not?

Ive Powershielded Lucario's aura sphere and it flew back at him..went right thru him.

Safe to say no dmg on pwrshd flew backs?

 

[Empy]

Yeah safe to say. Anyway, whiffed QD > utilt is mostly referred to as "grand viper". It's useful, although not as useful as people claim. It's better to mix up stuff instead of using utilt all the time. Jab works well, which is the motd, so .

Another thing I like to do with jabs is AA > AAA. This works even better when intercepting shorthops by going sidestep > AA > AAA. Or AA > AA > AAA it's really quick and tends to scare your opponents from staying too close, which is good, as fair has just the right range to keep pressure on them.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Just thought I'd throw this out there....

U-tilt is a great move to Jab-Cancel into! >.>

I swear I'm not crazy. U-tilt is amongst my most spammed moves. xD

 

[3xSwords]

Well u-tilt isn't amazing to jab cancel into b/c it can be airdodged. In this game anything can be air dodged lol. However, it is useful when the opponent is DI towards you during the jab so that the 3rd hit would miss.

 

[MysticKenji]

I've gotten Ike's jab to clank with Marth's/Shiek's Fsmashes before.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I've gotten Ike's jab to clank with Marth's/Shiek's Fsmashes before.

Seriously, the Jab defense might be Ike's future people. >.>

 

[Locuan]

Seriously, the Jab defense might be Ike's future people. >.>

I agree with this, Ike can cancel a lot of moves with Jab's in fact why don't we make a list of the moves that Ike can cancel with his jab's I think it would be useful to know which are those moves specifically.

What do you guys think of that?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I agree with this, Ike can cancel a lot of moves with Jab's in fact why don't we make a list of the moves that Ike can cancel with his jab's I think it would be useful to know which are those moves specifically.

What do you guys think of that?

i say its a great idea knowing jabs strengths and weaknesses is great since it seems to be the best move he has we need to use it to its full potential even as a defensive move. if we actually do this we should all split up the characters to test.

 

[3xSwords]

Powershielding anyone? I personally think jab as a defense would be good but also risky. One if you mistime it can be deadly as in instant KO depending on the move your opponent does. Two when you cancel an attack with a jab that makes both people return to standing position, right? That just means whoever attacks first wins and the only thing Ike could possibly do to gain an advantage in this situation is to keep jabbing and that would just make jab weak as hell.

Also does move degragation affect how well the jab would cancel something out? Would a jab at full power cancel stronger moves than jab at its weakest, or is it just all timing?

 

[Taylor]

Powershielding anyone? I personally think jab as a defense would be good but also risky. One if you mistime it can be deadly as in instant KO depending on the move your opponent does. Two when you cancel an attack with a jab that makes both people return to standing position, right? That just means whoever attacks first wins and the only thing Ike could possibly do to gain an advantage in this situation is to keep jabbing and that would just make jab weak as hell.

Also does move degragation affect how well the jab would cancel something out? Would a jab at full power cancel stronger moves than jab at its weakest, or is it just all timing?

That's actually a pretty good question. Does move degradation affect priority? I'm leaning towards no, but if someone knows...

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Powershielding anyone? I personally think jab as a defense would be good but also risky. One if you mistime it can be deadly as in instant KO depending on the move your opponent does. Two when you cancel an attack with a jab that makes both people return to standing position, right? That just means whoever attacks first wins and the only thing Ike could possibly do to gain an advantage in this situation is to keep jabbing and that would just make jab weak as hell.

Also does move degragation affect how well the jab would cancel something out? Would a jab at full power cancel stronger moves than jab at its weakest, or is it just all timing?

well jab doesnt really pack a punch and i dont think jabing attacks will affect the 3rd hit and a weaker nock back of jab would make for better jab to grab i think. i think it would be good to make you a bit more unpredictable if all of a sudden you are jabbing instead of shielding they can try and grab you after some attacks. or since it makes them stand they wont follow up into some combo because they might not be in the right position and trow of there game for a bit you might even be able to sneak in a tilt instead of just jabbing. also i wanted to ask does swinging at the air cause a move to degrade?

 

[Empy]

Burrito, I'm not sure what your talking about with 3th hit etc.. but 3xswords is right. Powershielding is always a better option then using jab to cancel out moves. Jab to cancel moves will give both players the same position, powershielding leaves the opponent with post-move lag and you without lag, so you are at the advantage. However, it might be good to know which moves could be cancelled with a jab, so you can decide how "safe" it is to use (/spam) your jabs. If you, for example, know it even cancels out fsmashs of a certain character, spamming jabs is less likely to get punished.

As to 3xswords his question, I'm not quite sure to be honest, but my first guess would be yes.

As to Taylor his question, no, a move just striking air (say a whiffed move) does NOT count for stale move, it also doesn't help to decrease the "staleness" of other moves.

It works like this. The game remembers the last move you use. It only does so if the move connects. It does so when you hit a shield/powershield, so that's why I assume it also does so when you hit another move. The game stores up to 9 moves, so after that time the first move will return to normal.

Example: you fsmash your opponent. After this you jab him 8 times. If you jab him once more, the fsmash will be at full power again.
Example2: you fsmash your opponent. After this you jab him 4 times. You fsmash him again. Your fsmash will still be slightly weaker, equal as if you used fsmash twice. This also means your stack will not reset. So to say, you still need to jab 9 times before fsmash returns to normal.

Hope that makes something clear.

 

[RPK]

Correct me if Im wrong, but I think that Ike's jab is the fastest move in his arsenal. It deals a good amount of damage if all 3 connect, in addition it has a good amount of priority. Im able to cancel out projectiles with it and am also able to over take most moves because of it. It isnt really a move that shouldnt be used as an offensive move because of its inability to kill. I think it should be used more as a get the hell off of me kind of move because of its speed and priority. In addition, because of its high priority, you can stop someone dead in their tracks for those who like to rush. You are also able to cancel the first jab and then after grab them.

Speaking of which, do all of the hits have the same amount of priority, or is it just the first jab that has so much priority?

 

[3xSwords]

Well RPK we are just talking about the first jab b/c even if the 2nd and 3rd jabs might have more priority it would be impractical to use them b/c it would not be quick enough in close combat. I guess checking out which moves can be canceled out by 1st jab is a good idea, but I think that if you time it right you can cancel out all moves. Although that's probably false....

 

[xYz]

has anyone incorporated the Will Combo into their gameplay yet?

its so useful!!