Scrub-Proof: The Competitive Ike Thread: Take Cover Here! -MOTD: Up Tilt!

[Falconv1.0]

Aiming with the B-Air is too easy, and it's quickness is great. It's a good gtfo me move, and is pretty easy to sue after an n-air. I give it an 8/10 only because n-air and f-air usually get more usage over b-air due to range and what not.

 

[fire_wulf]

I actually use to spam the Bair and degraded it till it didn't do anything anymore. Then i figured out how to space the Fair and the Bair almost disappeared. Like previously stated by others.. Bair is great after a Nair that hits with the back. When you don't use it... the Bair is a surprise that the opponent forgot about while they were watching for everything else. I love to use it when they are at high damage for a huge quick knock back move that will most likely kill depending on the percentage.

I will also find myself using it on heavier characters multiple times while they are trying to recover high to avoid my spikes.

One use of the Bair that is difficult to pull off.... but oh so fulfilling.... is to fast fall the Bair and land it on tiny characters. If they are medium damage and you can get the hit off... they fly so far and are immediately forced to work on recovering giving you the opportunity to edge gaurd. The problem with this is if you don't do it high enough the hitbox won't come out and you won't hit them. The second down side is if you do it too high you will swing right over their little heads and be easy game for combos. Like i said... risk with high reward. Not necessarily high risk as you will only die from a missed bair on rare occasions.. but you will get severely punished if you do miss.

 

[Lord Aether]

I managed to land it on people that were off the stage. Not TOO far off stage though; above the edges. It's great when they've lost their second jump.

 

[senjiroth]

I actually use to spam the Bair and degraded it till it didn't do anything anymore. Then i figured out how to space the Fair and the Bair almost disappeared. Like previously stated by others.. Bair is great after a Nair that hits with the back. When you don't use it... the Bair is a surprise that the opponent forgot about while they were watching for everything else. I love to use it when they are at high damage for a huge quick knock back move that will most likely kill depending on the percentage.

this is a good thing to trick ur opponent fire_wulf! nice job...

back to b-air: i use it whenever i see an opportunity that it will hit but most of the time i use it at high % (even tho i know they expect it) coz it satisfy me so much when i hit with this and kill my opponent. someone already said the b-air out of shield, i'll just say that this works well. n-air to b-air is a godly is also a reliable combo.. i sometimes set this move to a down throw when my opponent is expecting an up-air or f-air and it works sometimes..

i've never really tried fast falling coz im very focused on aiming it xd... is it really significant to FF it??

 

[Kodachrome]

Just curious, since nobody answered me on the other ike guide...

How many of you guys use a standing bair while facing your opponent? It's really easy to do and you can punish any chronic dashers with it nicely. Nothing says "pwned" like suddenly doing a bair toward your opponent even though you were facing them. xD

Also, I was wondering something-if you reverse aerial rush off a ledge and use your forward a, does it still hit them straight backward at the end of the hit (when ike finishes with the sword underneath them)? If so, this would be very nice for gimping, as opposed to a regular fair...Insane timing and very gimmicky, but I think it could work as a surprise every once in a while. If you mistime it, perhaps it would still stage spike them instead...?

Any replies to these would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

bair actually k0s like 20% lower than fair when its not degraded.

now the things i use it in. i use it to k0 mostly because its just easier to build up damage with nair and fair but sometimes it works really well against people who can block those if you can move well during your SH bairs you can rack up some pretty high damage of course you wont be able to k0 with it but ike has lots of other k0 moves. another thing ive been trying is grabbing the edge and letting go to bair but i usually take to long to do this what would the fastest way to get onto the ledge be?

anyways before some1 asked if you used Fair for damage building or k0ing so what do you guys use Bair for because back then i think people said Fair was for k0ing and Bair for damage building

 

[Empy]

I love bair. I really want to upate it's section in my guide. Anywayz, on topic.

I have 1 use of bair that I really love. The most of all. Powershield > bair. Seriously people, it might sound stupid, but it really works out if your going for it. Sometimes I just stand there asking for a certain hit, purely to attempt powershielding it. Sometimes I just happen to powershield and without even thinking my hands go *wham bang boem bair* (shut up I'm 22). I don't know why I love it so much but everytime I land it it makes me want to play Brawl some more.

Just curious, since nobody answered me on the other ike guide...

How many of you guys use a standing bair while facing your opponent? It's really easy to do and you can punish any chronic dashers with it nicely. Nothing says "pwned" like suddenly doing a bair toward your opponent even though you were facing them. xD

Also, I was wondering something-if you reverse aerial rush off a ledge and use your forward a, does it still hit them straight backward at the end of the hit (when ike finishes with the sword underneath them)? If so, this would be very nice for gimping, as opposed to a regular fair...Insane timing and very gimmicky, but I think it could work as a surprise every once in a while. If you mistime it, perhaps it would still stage spike them instead...?

Any replies to these would be greatly appreciated.

I don't really use it like that. Will try to use it more often, it does sound like a cool thing to do.

And I'm not sure about the rar. Will have to try that out. Although I'm doubting it will see much use in actual matches, cause there are easier ways to edgeguard, but worth a shot.

Also, just so you feel better, Any.

 

[3xSwords]

i've never really tried fast falling coz im very focused on aiming it xd... is it really significant to FF it??

If you FF it you could aim it lower than usual so you can hit characters like say kirby, g&w, pikachu etc. B-air is your most reliable kill move. Fast and powerful something Ike lacks in all his moves. (they either have power or speed not both).

Answer to arturito. You can QD to the ledge by QD'ing to the edge then going off the stage. Also you can speed hug which is best.

B-air is also good if they air dodge the d-air while going towards the stage, b/c then you can hit them out of their air dodge and get a sick stage spike.

 

[Kodachrome]

Empy, I agree about the rar fair-now that i think of it, i don't really know why I suggested it.

In any case, I should probably clarify what i meant about the bair-it is possible to do what's called the "auto rar" (at least, on this site in the AT section) while facing your oppenent even without changing the control scheme. it's tricky at first, but once you get it down, you might as well have had your back to the opponent the whole time. xD on heavier characters/characters with low damage %, you can easily chase their hitstun animation while you're in the air and land without lag in front of them to grab and do whatever from there. works very well for me thus far.

Also, I see people are bairing of out shields. How, unless you have your back to your enemy the whole time saying "hit me, pl0x"? Seems like they'd catch on, unless you can turn in your shield....

 

[comboking]

BAIR:
fast move really powerful if your opponent over shoots the ledge this is the move to use
you can sometimes chain together BAIRs by running turning around jumping doing a BAIR and in the middle of the BAIR press forward repeat as much as nessacary.

 

[senjiroth]

If you FF it you could aim it lower than usual so you can hit characters like say kirby, g&w, pikachu etc. B-air is your most reliable kill move. Fast and powerful something Ike lacks in all his moves. (they either have power or speed not both).

lol thanks for this 3xSwords! i actually tried it and it works!! also tried what fire_wulf said and ppl fell for it!! this thread is really good guys!

 

[Empy]

Also, I see people are bairing of out shields. How, unless you have your back to your enemy the whole time saying "hit me, pl0x"? Seems like they'd catch on, unless you can turn in your shield....

Actually, with Ike a lot of characters try to roll around you. So when you powershield their attack then, the bair is a pretty good way to punish.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

well heres is another vid of me against my friend i need to get my own recording system so i dont have to posts this audio lol http://youtube.com/watch?v=mkH7oQymdNc

well tell me what you think

 

[Kodachrome]

Ah, gotcha, empy.

I like my method of doing a bair to hit someone in front of me better, personally, and relegate my smashes and grabs to roll punishing. Sounds good, though. I just like mine because nobody expects a bair to come out TOWARD them while they're facing you. xD

 

[3xSwords]

Yeah but the range in front of the b-air is so short its kinda risky b/c your have to be so close to them. Exactly what part of the b-air do you hit with in the front?

 

[VersatileBJN]

You guys are doing a beautiful job. Sorry for not contributing much lately. When I'm not busy teaming up with empy to let Ganondorf and Sonic fanboys know that Ike is better than them, I'm enjoying the summer with friends and planning out my debut album(more on that in the future).

Keep in mind that anything you want to discuss for Ike is fine as long as it's productive somehow. I encourage people to post videos as well. I will be posting some videos with me and some really good players soon.

Anywho, keep up the great work and know that I'm very much still down with this topic.

Quick info on BAIR


This move is Ike's fastest besides Jab. It is not a move you will(or even should) use too much. I believe it is at it's most use when used as a fast, punishing, KO move. Ike's Jab, fair, nair and up tilt are just too good of tools to require much bair uses in my personal opinion. As I'm sure it has been stated, bair out of a short hop is sexy. It's speed can allow you to trick people into air dodging early to avoid a slower aerial like uair or fair only to eat a bair to the face.

So I don't sound like a broken record I won't elaborate on much more of the goodness that is Bair unless when going to post Bair and Jab quotes on page 1 I notice a lack of good bair info from you guys(I doubt it). However, a personaly favorite set up of mine is "front bairing". Essentially doing a purposel whiffed bair while facing forward to provoke a shield job which can give you a free jab combo a lot of the time.

Just a little bair input from Moi.

 

[DizzyDevilx]

B-air is also good if they air dodge the d-air while going towards the stage, b/c then you can hit them out of their air dodge and get a sick stage spike.

Griever does this in one of his videos against Marth @ 0:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZC-LxXfqZE

On a side note, I discovered that Ike's d-tilt has a sweet spot right at the hilt. If you connect a d-tilt when the opponent is right next to you, it sends the opponent on a horizontal trajectory with a more powerful knockback than f-tilt. I've killed Marth at 55% and Zelda at 55% on FD with this near the edge. I haven't tested this thoroughly on all the characters yet, but it seems that this sweetspot only works on light to middle heavy weight characters. It does not work on floaty characters like Pit or heavy weights like DK, Bowser or Ganandorf but it works on Ike and Fox just to name a few. I will do more testing tonight and hopefully post a list of all the characters this can be done on and the lowest percentage they can be killed at without move degredation.

 

[SaintAnger]

Does anybody have any tips on fighting floaty characters like Kirby? My main problem with it is getting out of air juggles.

I want to play some other Ike players to gauge myself against. I wanted to play xYz at Gigs but I couldn't remember what you looked like. lol. I think you came to Twilight Showdown once before. lol. Check out the pic I made for my profile for my crew HOSTESS!.

 

[3xSwords]

Another useful way to use b-air is right after a d-air spike attempt when the opponent is trying to recover from off the stage. Basically jump off the stage and d-air -> 2nd jump and b-air -> aether back onto the stage. It's an awesome follow up move because the opponent rarely expects it and it is almost guaranteed to kill if it connects.

Griever does this in one of his videos against Marth @ 0:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZC-LxXfqZE

On a side note, I discovered that Ike's d-tilt has a sweet spot right at the hilt. If you connect a d-tilt when the opponent is right next to you, it sends the opponent on a horizontal trajectory with a more powerful knockback than f-tilt. I've killed Marth at 44% and Zelda at 55% on FD with this near the edge. I haven't tested this thoroughly on all the characters yet, but it seems that this sweetspot only works on light to middle heavy weight characters. It does not work on floaty characters like Pit or heavy weights like DK, Bowser or Ganandorf but it works on Ike and Fox just to name a few. I will do more testing tonight and hopefully post a list of all the characters this can be done on and the lowest percentage they can be killed at without move degredation.

Dude read all the posts b/c I already posted this about the b-air stage spike. Not insulting you but like Versatile said we don't want to sound like broken records.

But good info about the d-tilt I know its powerful but is it really that strong? Can you try to get the kill %'s from the center of FD?

 

[DizzyDevilx]

My apologies 3xSwords, I need to read the threads more carefully next time. I completely missed that point the first time I went through the thread. I edited the original post to fix that. Yeah I'll put the kill %s from the center of FD as well as the edges later tonight. I need to test it at my friend's house because unfortunately I don't have all the characters unlocked on my Wii.

 

[3xSwords]

Thx for your understanding.

10char

 

[Kodachrome]

3xswords, I use it to punish dashers and anybody who thinks they're cool enough to try and stand outside my jab range. I hit with the regular part of the bair-you get it's full range, it's pretty sweet. I explained how to do it in a different thread, but I can repeat it here for practicality's sake.

Basically, do a VERY small, VERY quick tilt backward (to change your direction) and then SH bair. When I do it, I essentially move the control stick in a J. Get good at it, and it's just as fast as if you were standing with your back to them. Pretty much, it's a standing reverse aerial rush. If you do it wrong, chances are you'll bair while retreating-that means you dashed and pressed the control stick too hard. Practice it and you can use bair whenever, where ever. People start to get wary about crowding you, since it's much more powerful than your jab...and that is to your advantage. Spacing, for the win.

Once you can do it quickly and reliably, then you can even DI (not really DI, but whatever) during the stand-still RAR'd bair forward or backward to maintain spacing or to chase their hitstun for a potential grab/jab.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

kills bowser at like 126% i think i dont remember but its around there and Fair kills at like 145%+ both with out any degrade and DI though.

also what did that guy do at 1:25 in the vid to grab on the ledge so fast i couldnt see because of marth up b but i need to learn that i suck at edge hogging

 

[Rykoshet]

My favorite use of bair right now is walking off the stage then immediately doing a DJ back air back onto it, feinting the opponent into walking into it and clipping their feet marth/metaknight dtilt style. Well that and using RAR as an edgeguard but I find myself using it less and less, and the obvious Nair/Uptilt followups.

 

[DizzyDevilx]

On Topic:

If you FF it you could aim it lower than usual so you can hit characters like say kirby, g&w, pikachu etc. B-air is your most reliable kill move. Fast and powerful something Ike lacks in all his moves. (they either have power or speed not both).

I having a hard time hitting smaller characters with B-airs. I could probably be slow reflexes but it seems like the B-air animation and hitbox finishes before I can even fast fall it. The only way I can hit a small character like pikachu is if space myself so that the tip of the swords connects when I SH b-air.

Off Topic:

Posted info on D-Tilt and potentially new uses for it.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171254

 

[3xSwords]

Yeah for FF b-air I find it easiest to initiate a b-air and then FF. Or else the animation won't even come up. Just wondering though. Does a FF b-air have shorter range than a regular b-air b/c it certainly looks as if it does.

 

[Kodachrome]

There's no difference in range, unless you do it wrong-when you SHFF a bair, you're cancelling the rest of the animation. If you do it incorrectly, the peak of your range will never come out, or will just barely.

I'm still surprised that nobody cares that you can do a standing RAR to hit people in front of you with a bair. More versatility=good for Ike.

<_<

>_>

 

[Tenki]

It's nice that you can b-air and hit in front of you (I did it, usually by accident, when I mained Ike), but the range for that is smaller in front of you, isn't it?

reply@next post:

Oops, I didn't read the "RAR"

in that case, yes, I agree

 

[Kodachrome]

No, tenki. You guys all think that I'm using a bair while facing my opponent and using the odd front hitbox...I never let people get that close to me, unless I want to grab them.

What I'm talking about is simply turning quickly and using your bair. Once you get good enough at it, you can use it just as fast as if you had your back to them the entire time.

There's a few ways to to it-dash back and jump at the same time for a retreating bair (i don't like this one so much,) or simply gently tilt the control stick in the opposite direction you're facing so you turn and then shorthop bair. Do it quickly, and the turn animation will never even appear. It's a standing reverse aerial rush. Do it even MORE quickly, and you can move aerially toward your opponent or away, afterward.

The only reason I keep posting about it is because it's so useful when they're out of jab range and you want a faster move than your tilts, and it really punishes dash attackers...but I've never seen a single person use it or even mention it. I was kinda hoping I had contributed something useful. x(

 

[3xSwords]

*bump*

lol must be a habit I still check the Ike forums even though I have changed my main.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

alot of the people i liked to hear from in this thread have stopped posting i wonder where they all went cause when they where all posting i was actually improving alot

 

[Tenki]

probably because this move of the day has been here for more than 1 day.
'Standing RAR' sounds useful :3

definitely didn't read the 'rar' part of it the first few times lol.

Anyway, I say the thread needs a new topic.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

maybe so but kirk xyz and silven havent posted anything on it even though its been days they actually havent posted in a long time

 

[wasabicheese]

falco pwns ike, his lasers are retartedly broken lol. (ike was my previous main)

 

[3xSwords]

might be they found new mains or they just don't check. I mean you can't count on them to be on all the time.

 

[Kodachrome]

falco does pwn ike, but lasers are avoidable. the only time they should be an issue is for a gimped recovery or a sh double laser followed a smash into your face-and since you already know that's coming, it shouldn't get you too often.

And yeah, the standing *nonretreating* rar is pretty useful, especially when you get morons that are easily baited into attacking your defensive ike and only expect a jab they can di out of. good for surprise.

I didn't change from ike, simply because i'm not really doing well with any other character. Ice climbers are near impossible to desynch for me online, or chaingrab...samus is too nerfed for me in terms of killing power, snake is too strategic, and kirby is my only other good character. zelda can't sweetspot for me online, either.

*cries and goes back to playing with ike*

 

[Empy]

Actually against Falco I personally don't give a crap about the lasers, it's that darn chaingrab and certainly if he uses a smash instead of a chaingrab if you don't expect it.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Actually against Falco I personally don't give a crap about the lasers, it's that darn chaingrab and certainly if he uses a smash instead of a chaingrab if you don't expect it.

that doesnt really surprise me because my friend does it all the time once you start getting close to the edge counter and pwn him works if he uses hes deflector too im not sure if it works with the spike my friend doesn't try that much

 

[xYz]

maybe so but kirk xyz and silven havent posted anything on it even though its been days they actually havent posted in a long time

sorry haven't been here in awhile. I still use ike for tourney play but only against other ikes, because i am confident in that fight and I know it well.

I dont use bair to much, I only use it off stage or when the situation is right, i'd ask silven, he uses bair like no other.

im more a nair man.

 

[3xSwords]

sorry haven't been here in awhile. I still use ike for tourney play but only against other ikes, because i am confident in that fight and I know it well.

I dont use bair to much, I only use it off stage or when the situation is right, i'd ask silven, he uses bair like no other.

im more a nair man.

tat's great
some ppl still stick w/ Ike. I personally have found him boring to play, but I saw Griever play in some recent vids and I must say he almost convinced me to play Ike again.

lol @ nair man