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Seeds of Knowledge: Ivysaur Frame Data thread
- Thread starter JOE!
- Start date
GunBlaze
Smash Lord
Actually, all taunts do that now.
Masonomace
Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!
Really dig this frame data guide now that I got into P:M 
So far I really liked the FSJ > U-air. I really wanna try setting up a edge-guard off-stage and F-air tip to a FSJ U-air with a safe double jump Tether. So far I actually see the end of solarbeams because of the times I've been gimped by stringed combos/spikes to her I go for a last resort Beam. Other times when I'm getting juggled I always think about pressing B with the hope of frame 2 can break their juggle or is that a no-go. One last thing to note is one easy F-air off stage usually leads to a guaranteed Sweetspot D-air meteor + heal beamcharge resembling a Ken combo.
So far I really liked the FSJ > U-air. I really wanna try setting up a edge-guard off-stage and F-air tip to a FSJ U-air with a safe double jump Tether. So far I actually see the end of solarbeams because of the times I've been gimped by stringed combos/spikes to her I go for a last resort Beam. Other times when I'm getting juggled I always think about pressing B with the hope of frame 2 can break their juggle or is that a no-go. One last thing to note is one easy F-air off stage usually leads to a guaranteed Sweetspot D-air meteor + heal beamcharge resembling a Ken combo.
JOE!
Smash Hero
If you can see the end of solar beam, you are in a spot where you're about to die anyway 90% of the time 
Also, I think I'll just go through everything again once 3.0 comes out.
Also, I think I'll just go through everything again once 3.0 comes out.
JOE!
Smash Hero
Fixed the OP, the change to the new SB apparently made the spacing wayyyyyyyyyy too much.
Also, expect updates after the 9th
Also, expect updates after the 9th
Swann
Smash Journeyman
[Excitement intensifies]
JOE!
Smash Hero
Welp, it's after the 9th, but finals johns and such.... luckily/oddly, the hitbox timing and placement (not angles) of the new Bair is the same as the one here
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
Why did you not include landing lag / L-cancel lag for Ivy's aerials? Also, I don't mind the way you did the images, but I would prefer to have GIFs of each move as well. I don't know if others want GIFs though, so it may not be worth the time.
GIFs would be most swell.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
Here are the correct landing lags by the way. L-Canceled vs regular:
N-Air: 7 / 15
F-Air: 10 / 20
B-Air: 9 / 18
U-Air: 11 / 25
D-Air: 11 / 22
Yes, U-Air is currently 11/25. It will probably be fixed later, lol.
N-Air: 7 / 15
F-Air: 10 / 20
B-Air: 9 / 18
U-Air: 11 / 25
D-Air: 11 / 22
Yes, U-Air is currently 11/25. It will probably be fixed later, lol.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
You forgot to include the startup of each smash. This means your hit frames and IASA for the smashes are most likely incorrect. The startups are listed as AttackS4Start (fsmash startup), AttackHi4Start (usmash startup), and AttackLw4Start (dsmash startup). E.g., if BBox says AttackLw4Start is 9 frames long, it is actually 8 frames long in game. Then in AttackLw4, if PSA says something like Asynchronous timer: frames = 4, that means that the hitbox is created on frame 5. This would mean that the first hit frame of dsmash would be 13 (8 frames startup + 4 frames before hitbox is created).
Also, you don't really need to list ending lag IMO, and you can list IASA only as the first frame that you can IASA not the first frame you can IASA through the rest of the move's animation. E.g., IASA: 38 means that the next input would start on frame 39. IASA: 38-45 is the same as IASA: 38.
Also, when getting grab images, you have to take a picture of the grabboxes by themselves with TopN at size 1,1,1, then get a picture of Ivysaur with the correct Size attribute for TopN and overlay the grabboxes on top of the Ivysaur grab images in another program. It's tedious but will give you accurate results for her grabs.
If you're going to put the total length of a move's animation (not really needed but most frame data threads do this), keep in mind that BBox adds an extra frame to the move. E.g., if BrawlBox says an animation is 43 frames long, the animation is actually 42 frames long in-game.
When making the GIFs/still images, make sure to turn the Hurtboxes on as well. It will show the true disjoint a move has compared to Ivysaur's hurtbox. I'd also suggest turning the Floor on and making GIFs of each move from a complete side-view so people can see how low a move can hit below the floor.
By the way, any move that has a Frame Speed Modifier will not be correctly displayed in BrawlBox. They will still be displayed at 60FPS instead of applying the correct FSMs to the moves. In order to get the correct images/data, you'd need to do them in game with Frame Advance. Here is a list of all of Ivysaur's moves that have FSMs. You will probably need help with these moves.
Not sure if you know this already or if I covered this, but, keep in mind the differences between Asynchronous timers and Synchronous timers.
Asynchronous timers start counting from the beginning of the animation and are X + 1. E.g., Asynch timer: frames = 4 means the event happens on frame 5.
Synchronous timers are Y+1. E.,g., sync timer: frames = 3 means the event happens on frame 4. The reason why it is Y+1 and not X+1 is because if you have something like Asynch timer: frames = 8 -> hitboxes -> synch timer: frames = 2 -> terminate collisions(removes all hitboxes in current move), this would mean that the move hits on frames 0-10 and terminate on 11. This would be X+Y -> event happens on next frame, in this case it is X(asynch: 8) + Y(synch: 2) = 10 which means the synchronous timer's event happens on the next frame (frame 11).
Hopefully this all makes sense. I think this should cover most if not everything. If I remember anything else, I'll edit this post or something. I should really make a guide on doing hitbox stuff, lol.
Also, you don't really need to list ending lag IMO, and you can list IASA only as the first frame that you can IASA not the first frame you can IASA through the rest of the move's animation. E.g., IASA: 38 means that the next input would start on frame 39. IASA: 38-45 is the same as IASA: 38.
Also, when getting grab images, you have to take a picture of the grabboxes by themselves with TopN at size 1,1,1, then get a picture of Ivysaur with the correct Size attribute for TopN and overlay the grabboxes on top of the Ivysaur grab images in another program. It's tedious but will give you accurate results for her grabs.
If you're going to put the total length of a move's animation (not really needed but most frame data threads do this), keep in mind that BBox adds an extra frame to the move. E.g., if BrawlBox says an animation is 43 frames long, the animation is actually 42 frames long in-game.
When making the GIFs/still images, make sure to turn the Hurtboxes on as well. It will show the true disjoint a move has compared to Ivysaur's hurtbox. I'd also suggest turning the Floor on and making GIFs of each move from a complete side-view so people can see how low a move can hit below the floor.
By the way, any move that has a Frame Speed Modifier will not be correctly displayed in BrawlBox. They will still be displayed at 60FPS instead of applying the correct FSMs to the moves. In order to get the correct images/data, you'd need to do them in game with Frame Advance. Here is a list of all of Ivysaur's moves that have FSMs. You will probably need help with these moves.
Dash Attack
U-Tilt
D-Tilt
D-Smash
F-Air
U-Air
U-Tilt
D-Tilt
D-Smash
F-Air
U-Air
Not sure if you know this already or if I covered this, but, keep in mind the differences between Asynchronous timers and Synchronous timers.
Asynchronous timers start counting from the beginning of the animation and are X + 1. E.g., Asynch timer: frames = 4 means the event happens on frame 5.
Synchronous timers are Y+1. E.,g., sync timer: frames = 3 means the event happens on frame 4. The reason why it is Y+1 and not X+1 is because if you have something like Asynch timer: frames = 8 -> hitboxes -> synch timer: frames = 2 -> terminate collisions(removes all hitboxes in current move), this would mean that the move hits on frames 0-10 and terminate on 11. This would be X+Y -> event happens on next frame, in this case it is X(asynch: 8) + Y(synch: 2) = 10 which means the synchronous timer's event happens on the next frame (frame 11).
Hopefully this all makes sense. I think this should cover most if not everything. If I remember anything else, I'll edit this post or something. I should really make a guide on doing hitbox stuff, lol.
Swann
Smash Journeyman
^I agree with all of this... and I marvel at how annoying and dumb taking still images is. I won't have time right now, but I'll probably look into doing hitbox capture and animation in the near future.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
Yeah, making hitbox threads for PM characters is a LOT more work and more annoying than making hitbox threads for SSBM.
JOE!
Smash Hero
Yeah, unfortunately my schoolwork / life has taken a huge chunk of my time here... So sorry if it takes quite a bit to get these threads updated!
In the meantime, if anybody would like to help out (Community effort and all that) by perhaps pointing out specific changes and such, it'd be greatly appreciated
In the meantime, if anybody would like to help out (Community effort and all that) by perhaps pointing out specific changes and such, it'd be greatly appreciated
Swann
Smash Journeyman
I might be able to start in on the gifs this week. Monk, if you wanna PM me with basic info I could even start on it tomorrow. I'm sure I'll have questions but I'll try and do as much as possible before bugging you.
Where's Ivy's Hurtbox on Nair? It seems to beat practically everything, which you wouldn't expect from the way it looks.
I apologize if that's in the OP, I'm not quite sure how to read your images, they're not as colorful as I'm used to.
I apologize if that's in the OP, I'm not quite sure how to read your images, they're not as colorful as I'm used to.
Sartron
Smash Journeyman
It appears hurtboxes aren't displayed in that particular image, although hitboxes are. I could certainly help you with a more proper visual later today. I'll edit/make a second post later when I have access to my stuff.
EDIT: Here's the GIFs, first one is 1x speed, second one is 1x speed with hitboxes at half a second.
[collapse=Animation]
Last edited:
Sartron
Smash Journeyman
If either of you need specific help or just something in general I'd also be interested on working on this thread as a side project.Yeah, unfortunately my schoolwork / life has taken a huge chunk of my time here... So sorry if it takes quite a bit to get these threads updated!
In the meantime, if anybody would like to help out (Community effort and all that) by perhaps pointing out specific changes and such, it'd be greatly appreciated
Machiavelli.CF
Ivy of the West
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2008
- Messages
- 757
- Location
- Orange County, CA
- NNID
- Machiavelli.CF
- 3DS FC
- 3222-5675-4966
I think it would be best to have the second slow gif at a consistant speed, instead of just the parts with the hitboxes.
Another option would be having only the hitbox frames slowly scroll through, like the Dedede frame data thread has.
Another option would be having only the hitbox frames slowly scroll through, like the Dedede frame data thread has.
Swann
Smash Journeyman
What I would do
Thanks. Weird, it doesn't look particularly advantageous. Some of the boxes do extend beyond Ivy's body during certain parts of the spin, but it shouldn't be going through disjoints. Maybe it's just really good at sneaking in-between active frames because it's active almost all the time.
Swann
Smash Journeyman
It definitely loses to disjoint. Try nairing at Pit's nair (head on), for a really obvious example.
But I think you're right about it sneaking in between active frames. Mewtwo's nair in Melee had similar properties.
But I think you're right about it sneaking in between active frames. Mewtwo's nair in Melee had similar properties.
Last edited:
ok so a friend of mine asked me to look into this thread so here i am
i will edit this post as i go, i cannot work without editing posts
i will fix your ****, just make sure that you make the images or i'll ivysaur solarbeam you irl (I AM NOT KIDDING EITHER.)
Edit: also people who still use the acronym iasa should be shot and killed, not even kidding
standards``````````````````````
Jab 1: hits on 2-4
FAF: 16
jab2: hits on 14-16 (TECHNICALLY IT HITS ON FRAMES 6-8 BUT THIS IS REAL LIFE NOT YOUR FANTASY PSA BULL****)
FAF: 33
ftilt: hits on 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17
FAF: 40
important note about ftilt: there is a weird as **** hitbox behind ivysaur on frame 17 (the strong hit) that only does 2% damage. I don't know why. 17 is the "strong" hit.
uptilt: hits on 9-15
FAF: 29
Note: there's two 8% hitboxes and a 9% hitbox
dtilt: hits on 8-9, 12-14
FAF: 32
Note: first hit has three 2% hitboxes and two 3% hitboxes (stronger ones are at the tip)
dash attack (lulz): hits on 4-6, 7-20
FAF: 35
Note: lets not talk about this move.
smash attacks~~~
forward smash: hits on 15-18
FAF: 60
notes: move ONLY has two hitboxes. this surprises me. Also it releases immediately after charge. as in, if you charge the move, as soon as you let go of A, hitboxes are out and happenin'.
down smash: hits on 10-11
FAF: 48
Notes: it still sucks. not even the gods of smash can save this move. It's so bad, even its sound effect sucks. Deals more damage closer to Ivysaur (which makes no sense if Ivy is meant to be a zoning seige cannon, but then has a godawful down smash that encourages you to be closer to do anything useful with it) /rant
up smash: hits on 13, 14-19
FAF: 47
Note: the first hitbox on frame 13 is coded as a flower hitbox and will heal Ivysaur for 9% if she's taken 9 or more damage. the second hitbox is just a regular hitbox. Hitting someone with another flower effect hitbox will increase the duration of the flower up to a cap
The flower can be removed quicker by moving the control stick, it's quite possible for someone with godlike reflexes to remove the flower and only take 1% damage.
Ivysaur's flower is intangible and unable to be hit during the frames the hitbox is active
Edit #2833425: I am going to have a nap. I have come to the realization that this game is as bad as brawl.
Edit: WHY DOES IT FEEL LIKE EVERY MOVE HAS FRAME SPEED MODIFIERS PMBR STAHP
specials~:
11100000010011111111111111000000
11100000000011111111111111000000
Neutral special: hits on 2-3
heals on: 15, 51, 87, 123, 159... (every 36 frames) It takes basically 3 seconds to heal 5%
FAF: 57
Damage: 4/2/0%
Notes: ok this is a weird one. The PMBR used windboxes that deal damage. This is unheard of in Brawl at least, and actually a unique way to give knockback to a move with damage without flinching (contrast fox's blaster which can't knockback because it's got 0/0 BKB and KBG). The hitboxes with damage are supposedly unshieldable, however they are actually shieldable. It's probably just a weird interaction between windboxes and having the shieldability bit set on (unshieldable attacks WILL cut through counters like butter as well; thankfully these attacks are rare and are usually set only to pummels (infinite lulz) and final smashes (thats what the random binary is above, I have left it for you guys to guess which bit determines if an attack is shieldable or not)
SOLARBEAM: hits on 20-28, 29-41
invincible: 20-41
FAF: 84
Notes: Well. As terrible of a character PM ivysaur seems to be, I have to hand it to them. This attack is AMAZING. They sure went out of their way to give Ivysaur something that feels really, really epic. FYI, that invincibility is actual invincibility. It's the same as when someone jumps off the respawn platform
The move is absorbable, but cannot be reflected, similar to Zero Suit Spammus's down smash.
Solarbeam is able to be used when you've healed 18% damage through neutral B, up smash etc
RazOr Leaf: appears on 22-74
rehit rate: 13
FAF: 44
Notes: The rehit rate just means it hits every 13 frames. The hitbox is always active as long as the projectile exists, as soon as it hits something, the rehit rate will count down & 13 frames later it'll hit again. The move has more hitlag and a higher than normal SDI multiplier making it relatively easy to SDI (REHIT RATE EXAMPLE PLS READ. IF THE MOVE HITS ON SAY, FRAME 49, IT WILL NOT HIT AGAIN UNTIL FRAME 62 ON THE PERSON WHO GOT HIT.)
Vine Whip: Hits on 20-25
FAF: 48
Notes: surprisingly boring. updated damage values are 18% (tip) and 13 everywhere else
Bullet Seed's replacement: appears on: 10-??? (does this ever end? I DONT THINK IT DOES LOL)
I CANT FIND THE HITBOX DATA :<
ok, so it acts like Snake's mortar. the stun hitbox probably lingers but cbf finding
Edit#2378326732 ok it lasts 8 frames. So as soon as it collides with a surface that isn't a object, then from 1-8 it has hitboxes
Aerials~~~~~~~~~~~~```~~~`` etc
nair: hits on 4-5, 8-9, 12-13, 16-17, 20-21, 24-25, 28-29
FAF: 42
notes: boring, but practical
fair: hits on 15-19
FAF: 36
notes: why does this exist...?
bair: hits on 7-10, 16-19
updated damage values 8/7/5/5
FAF: 41
Notes: first hit has fixed knockback
uair hits on 9, 10, 11-14, 15-28
FAF: 37
Notes: frame 9 is the only frame the heal hitbox is out. It's relatively strong and has extra shield damage at +9 (all of the flower hitboxes share this trait but with different intensities). The move forces Ivysaur into fast fall. Frame 10's hitbox does the most damage and knockback. The hitbox after this has an angle of 630 and deals 6%. I have no idea what this means. lmao.
It could be treated as an autolink angle where it sends people in the direction that ivysaur is moving (which would almost always be down), or perhaps the angle is treated as a proper spike. I would place my bets on 630 being a "spike" angle.
Regarding the hitbox frames, there's no way for me to 100% know when everything is, this is my best educated guess for upair as it's confusing as ****. 9 is the heal hitbox (also the smallest!), 10 is the strongest hitbox, 11-14 is probably the spike, and 15 onward is the meteor smash. Oh. Ivy's bulb is intangible for a short period of time too. Idk how long.
dair: hits on 8, 9-10
FAF: 37
Notes: This resets your aerial momentum. Yes, upairing and then down airing will change your momentum back to normal. You will also probably be dead. Looks and feels inferior to up air. mehhhhhhh
intangibility moves
spotdodge: 2-17 (meh)
forward roll: 4-19 (meh)
back roll: 4-19
air dodge: 4-29
get up (stand; back): 1-22
get up (attack; back) 1-when hitboxes end (not up to this)
get up (roll forward; back): 1-21
get up (roll backward; back) 1-22
get up (stand; stomach): 1-22
get up (attack; stomach): 1-when hitboxes end (not up to this)
get up (roll forward; stomach): 1-22
get up (roll backward; stomach): 1-22
tech: 1-20
tech roll: 1-20
ledge attack <100%: 1-22 (hitboxes start 24)
ledge get up: 1-30
ledge roll: 1-29
ledge jump: 1-15
ledge attack >100%: 1-29 (hitboxes on frame 29)
legde get up: 1-55
ledge roll: 1-61
Ledge jump: 1-19
trip: 1-6
trip stand: 1-17
trip attack: 1-8 (hitboxes on frame 19)
trip roll (both ways) 1-10
i will edit this post as i go, i cannot work without editing posts
i will fix your ****, just make sure that you make the images or i'll ivysaur solarbeam you irl (I AM NOT KIDDING EITHER.)
Edit: also people who still use the acronym iasa should be shot and killed, not even kidding
standards``````````````````````
Jab 1: hits on 2-4
FAF: 16
jab2: hits on 14-16 (TECHNICALLY IT HITS ON FRAMES 6-8 BUT THIS IS REAL LIFE NOT YOUR FANTASY PSA BULL****)
FAF: 33
ftilt: hits on 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17
FAF: 40
important note about ftilt: there is a weird as **** hitbox behind ivysaur on frame 17 (the strong hit) that only does 2% damage. I don't know why. 17 is the "strong" hit.
uptilt: hits on 9-15
FAF: 29
Note: there's two 8% hitboxes and a 9% hitbox
dtilt: hits on 8-9, 12-14
FAF: 32
Note: first hit has three 2% hitboxes and two 3% hitboxes (stronger ones are at the tip)
dash attack (lulz): hits on 4-6, 7-20
FAF: 35
Note: lets not talk about this move.
smash attacks~~~
forward smash: hits on 15-18
FAF: 60
notes: move ONLY has two hitboxes. this surprises me. Also it releases immediately after charge. as in, if you charge the move, as soon as you let go of A, hitboxes are out and happenin'.
down smash: hits on 10-11
FAF: 48
Notes: it still sucks. not even the gods of smash can save this move. It's so bad, even its sound effect sucks. Deals more damage closer to Ivysaur (which makes no sense if Ivy is meant to be a zoning seige cannon, but then has a godawful down smash that encourages you to be closer to do anything useful with it) /rant
up smash: hits on 13, 14-19
FAF: 47
Note: the first hitbox on frame 13 is coded as a flower hitbox and will heal Ivysaur for 9% if she's taken 9 or more damage. the second hitbox is just a regular hitbox. Hitting someone with another flower effect hitbox will increase the duration of the flower up to a cap
The flower can be removed quicker by moving the control stick, it's quite possible for someone with godlike reflexes to remove the flower and only take 1% damage.
Ivysaur's flower is intangible and unable to be hit during the frames the hitbox is active
Edit #2833425: I am going to have a nap. I have come to the realization that this game is as bad as brawl.
Edit: WHY DOES IT FEEL LIKE EVERY MOVE HAS FRAME SPEED MODIFIERS PMBR STAHP
specials~:
11100000010011111111111111000000
11100000000011111111111111000000
Neutral special: hits on 2-3
heals on: 15, 51, 87, 123, 159... (every 36 frames) It takes basically 3 seconds to heal 5%
FAF: 57
Damage: 4/2/0%
Notes: ok this is a weird one. The PMBR used windboxes that deal damage. This is unheard of in Brawl at least, and actually a unique way to give knockback to a move with damage without flinching (contrast fox's blaster which can't knockback because it's got 0/0 BKB and KBG). The hitboxes with damage are supposedly unshieldable, however they are actually shieldable. It's probably just a weird interaction between windboxes and having the shieldability bit set on (unshieldable attacks WILL cut through counters like butter as well; thankfully these attacks are rare and are usually set only to pummels (infinite lulz) and final smashes (thats what the random binary is above, I have left it for you guys to guess which bit determines if an attack is shieldable or not)
SOLARBEAM: hits on 20-28, 29-41
invincible: 20-41
FAF: 84
Notes: Well. As terrible of a character PM ivysaur seems to be, I have to hand it to them. This attack is AMAZING. They sure went out of their way to give Ivysaur something that feels really, really epic. FYI, that invincibility is actual invincibility. It's the same as when someone jumps off the respawn platform
The move is absorbable, but cannot be reflected, similar to Zero Suit Spammus's down smash.
Solarbeam is able to be used when you've healed 18% damage through neutral B, up smash etc
RazOr Leaf: appears on 22-74
rehit rate: 13
FAF: 44
Notes: The rehit rate just means it hits every 13 frames. The hitbox is always active as long as the projectile exists, as soon as it hits something, the rehit rate will count down & 13 frames later it'll hit again. The move has more hitlag and a higher than normal SDI multiplier making it relatively easy to SDI (REHIT RATE EXAMPLE PLS READ. IF THE MOVE HITS ON SAY, FRAME 49, IT WILL NOT HIT AGAIN UNTIL FRAME 62 ON THE PERSON WHO GOT HIT.)
Vine Whip: Hits on 20-25
FAF: 48
Notes: surprisingly boring. updated damage values are 18% (tip) and 13 everywhere else
Bullet Seed's replacement
: appears on: 10-??? (does this ever end? I DONT THINK IT DOES LOL)I CANT FIND THE HITBOX DATA :<
ok, so it acts like Snake's mortar. the stun hitbox probably lingers but cbf finding
Edit#2378326732 ok it lasts 8 frames. So as soon as it collides with a surface that isn't a object, then from 1-8 it has hitboxes
Aerials~~~~~~~~~~~~```~~~`` etc
nair: hits on 4-5, 8-9, 12-13, 16-17, 20-21, 24-25, 28-29
FAF: 42
notes: boring, but practical
fair: hits on 15-19
FAF: 36
notes: why does this exist...?
bair: hits on 7-10, 16-19
updated damage values 8/7/5/5
FAF: 41
Notes: first hit has fixed knockback
uair hits on 9, 10, 11-14, 15-28
FAF: 37
Notes: frame 9 is the only frame the heal hitbox is out. It's relatively strong and has extra shield damage at +9 (all of the flower hitboxes share this trait but with different intensities). The move forces Ivysaur into fast fall. Frame 10's hitbox does the most damage and knockback. The hitbox after this has an angle of 630 and deals 6%. I have no idea what this means. lmao.
It could be treated as an autolink angle where it sends people in the direction that ivysaur is moving (which would almost always be down), or perhaps the angle is treated as a proper spike. I would place my bets on 630 being a "spike" angle.
Regarding the hitbox frames, there's no way for me to 100% know when everything is, this is my best educated guess for upair as it's confusing as ****. 9 is the heal hitbox (also the smallest!), 10 is the strongest hitbox, 11-14 is probably the spike, and 15 onward is the meteor smash. Oh. Ivy's bulb is intangible for a short period of time too. Idk how long.
dair: hits on 8, 9-10
FAF: 37
Notes: This resets your aerial momentum. Yes, upairing and then down airing will change your momentum back to normal. You will also probably be dead. Looks and feels inferior to up air. mehhhhhhh
intangibility moves
spotdodge: 2-17 (meh)
forward roll: 4-19 (meh)
back roll: 4-19
air dodge: 4-29
get up (stand; back): 1-22
get up (attack; back) 1-when hitboxes end (not up to this)
get up (roll forward; back): 1-21
get up (roll backward; back) 1-22
get up (stand; stomach): 1-22
get up (attack; stomach): 1-when hitboxes end (not up to this)
get up (roll forward; stomach): 1-22
get up (roll backward; stomach): 1-22
tech: 1-20
tech roll: 1-20
ledge attack <100%: 1-22 (hitboxes start 24)
ledge get up: 1-30
ledge roll: 1-29
ledge jump: 1-15
ledge attack >100%: 1-29 (hitboxes on frame 29)
legde get up: 1-55
ledge roll: 1-61
Ledge jump: 1-19
trip: 1-6
trip stand: 1-17
trip attack: 1-8 (hitboxes on frame 19)
trip roll (both ways) 1-10
Last edited:
you're ****ing welcome
I will finish this eventually, but I'm certain there's enough data for you to start whenever.
[youtube]08dKT4XSz58[/youtube]
how do i shot web ^ lol
have i missed anything?
I think it's just grab/trip/ledge and get up attacks that need doing now.
Autocancel frames, landing lag and block advantage for grounded moves. I will do this for you because am benevolent senator.
I will finish this eventually, but I'm certain there's enough data for you to start whenever.
[youtube]08dKT4XSz58[/youtube]
how do i shot web ^ lol
have i missed anything?
I think it's just grab/trip/ledge and get up attacks that need doing now.
Autocancel frames, landing lag and block advantage for grounded moves. I will do this for you because am benevolent senator.
Last edited:
Sartron
Smash Journeyman
Good job with all that information, cool to see someone else stepping up to da plate around here. I was also thinking about going around helping others out with frame threads, specifically GIFs which are a pain for some people. Also is calling IASA a FAF really necessary? If so, I will avoid getting shot and change mine :/
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so here's a really cool thing about iasa frames and faf's
they're basically the same, except not every move has an iasa frame
first actionable frame is just so much more descriptive, it says "this is the first frame you can input another action" while iasa says "this is the first frame the animation is interrupted" whether the animation gets interrupted or not (a lot of moves do not have iasa frames; I wish the community as a whole would simply move away from the misnomer).
I feel very strongly about this. lol
also ya, I used to do frame data back in 2011~2012 for brawl people and the smash lab, so you'll probably see more of me around the P:M boards making frame data threads. lawl
they're basically the same, except not every move has an iasa frame
first actionable frame is just so much more descriptive, it says "this is the first frame you can input another action" while iasa says "this is the first frame the animation is interrupted" whether the animation gets interrupted or not (a lot of moves do not have iasa frames; I wish the community as a whole would simply move away from the misnomer).
I feel very strongly about this. lol
also ya, I used to do frame data back in 2011~2012 for brawl people and the smash lab, so you'll probably see more of me around the P:M boards making frame data threads. lawl
Swann
Smash Journeyman
Aerodrome is good people.
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@
KuroganeHammer
is love
@
KuroganeHammer
is life
shield advantage on hit: NOTE THAT THESE ARE DONE WITH THE MOST REALISTIC IDEA OF WHEN THE HITBOXES WILL HIT A SHIELD. IT IS NOT FAIR TO COUNT FTILT'S DISADVANTAGE FROM THE FIRST HITBOX, LIKEWISE IT'S UNLIKELY THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SHIELD DASH ATTACK ON FRAME 20 (this means that these numbers are obviously relative and could be safer/unsafer but I'm only adding the hitboxes you're likely going to shield (aka you'll usually hit a shield with the first frame of dash attack, not frame 20 (i have already said this idc)))))))))))))
IF YOU WANT THE DETAILS ON WHAT MOVE WAS SHIELDED WHEN YOU WILL NEED TO ASK
jab 1: -10
jab 2: -15
ftilt -16
uptilt -13
dtilt -15
dash attack -23 (AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
fsmash -36
dsmash -29
usmash -30 (hitbox from frame 14 would be significantly safer)
solarbeam -55?
vine whip -16
bullet seed -26
razor leaf -15 (very safe on shield considering this hitbox used wa the one on frame 22.... wtf)
edge attack fast -26
edge attack slow -23
get up attack back (hits on 14) -31
get up attack stomach (hits on 16) -29
trip attack (lulz) -15 (i used the second hitbox here gomen which makes it look safer than it is
edit: my frame advance is bugging brb
landing lag/lcancel
nair 15/7
uair 22/11
dair 22/11
fair 20/10
bair 18/9
the shield advantages are oos, if you want normal shield drop, add 7 frames to the number (i assume it's the same as Brawl.)
Example: Jab 1: (-10) + 7 = ???? [This is grade 3 math.]
KuroganeHammer
is love@
KuroganeHammer
is lifeshield advantage on hit: NOTE THAT THESE ARE DONE WITH THE MOST REALISTIC IDEA OF WHEN THE HITBOXES WILL HIT A SHIELD. IT IS NOT FAIR TO COUNT FTILT'S DISADVANTAGE FROM THE FIRST HITBOX, LIKEWISE IT'S UNLIKELY THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SHIELD DASH ATTACK ON FRAME 20 (this means that these numbers are obviously relative and could be safer/unsafer but I'm only adding the hitboxes you're likely going to shield (aka you'll usually hit a shield with the first frame of dash attack, not frame 20 (i have already said this idc)))))))))))))
IF YOU WANT THE DETAILS ON WHAT MOVE WAS SHIELDED WHEN YOU WILL NEED TO ASK
jab 1: -10
jab 2: -15
ftilt -16
uptilt -13
dtilt -15
dash attack -23 (AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
fsmash -36
dsmash -29
usmash -30 (hitbox from frame 14 would be significantly safer)
solarbeam -55?
vine whip -16
bullet seed -26
razor leaf -15 (very safe on shield considering this hitbox used wa the one on frame 22.... wtf)
edge attack fast -26
edge attack slow -23
get up attack back (hits on 14) -31
get up attack stomach (hits on 16) -29
trip attack (lulz) -15 (i used the second hitbox here gomen which makes it look safer than it is
edit: my frame advance is bugging brb
landing lag/lcancel
nair 15/7
uair 22/11
dair 22/11
fair 20/10
bair 18/9
the shield advantages are oos, if you want normal shield drop, add 7 frames to the number (i assume it's the same as Brawl.)
Example: Jab 1: (-10) + 7 = ???? [This is grade 3 math.]
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double post because **** the mods
edge attack fast: hits on 24-26
FAF: 56
edge attack slow: hits on 29-39
FAF: 60
trip attack (lmao): hits on 19-20, 30-31
FAF: 50
get up attack back: hits on 14-15, 22-23
FAF: 50
get up attack stomach: hits on 16-17
FAF: 50
ok. There you go. That's everything except auto cancel frames I believe. cbf auto cancel frames. I didn't even do them in my thread because lol.
edge attack fast: hits on 24-26
FAF: 56
edge attack slow: hits on 29-39
FAF: 60
trip attack (lmao): hits on 19-20, 30-31
FAF: 50
get up attack back: hits on 14-15, 22-23
FAF: 50
get up attack stomach: hits on 16-17
FAF: 50
ok. There you go. That's everything except auto cancel frames I believe. cbf auto cancel frames. I didn't even do them in my thread because lol.
JOE!
Smash Hero
I know, and you're awesome @
KuroganeHammer
!
Like I said earlier though, I'm just in crunch time with my game studio team trying to get an associates degree on my end... so I don't have the time *at this moment* to get the pics up for her
KuroganeHammer
!Like I said earlier though, I'm just in crunch time with my game studio team trying to get an associates degree on my end... so I don't have the time *at this moment* to get the pics up for her
@
KuroganeHammer
just in case, is the frame data the same for tilted side B and smashed side B ?
KuroganeHammer
just in case, is the frame data the same for tilted side B and smashed side B ?
That's k, I'm just reminding you because sometimes people aren't motivated to do things.I know, and you're awesome @
Like I said earlier though, I'm just in crunch time with my game studio team trying to get an associates degree on my end... so I don't have the time *at this moment* to get the pics up for her
Side B is the same move-- tilted or smashed; the only difference is the speed the projectile moves (aka all the data is the same)@
I'm wondering, which is the fastest :
-short hop immediate dair while holding down + normal landing lag
-short hop immediate dair while holding down + fast fall L cancel
Either tell me, or teach me how to check it by myself, thx :3
-short hop immediate dair while holding down + normal landing lag
-short hop immediate dair while holding down + fast fall L cancel
Either tell me, or teach me how to check it by myself, thx :3
^ @
KuroganeHammer
KuroganeHammer
sorry im still at Brisbane
tournament is over, so I'll be home soon tho I lost my wiimote battery so I need to find another one
sympathy plz
tournament is over, so I'll be home soon tho I lost my wiimote battery so I need to find another one
sympathy plz
FAF 40
FAF 29
Includes jump start.
The first one was not l-cancelled, also dair forces are fast fall so they are probably the same duration anyway/
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can we please either 1) make a new thread where the OP is properly updated or 2) edit the OP in this one?
Also some gifs or a table would be nice. Since I don't know who else to mention for this @
TheReflexWonder
?
I'd do it my self, but have no idea how.
Also some gifs or a table would be nice. Since I don't know who else to mention for this @
TheReflexWonder
?I'd do it my self, but have no idea how.