Sexy Poses!: An In-Depth Move Analysis for Zelda - Move #18-20, 22 Up/Down B, Dash A

[JigglyZelda003]

So... who's gonna be project manager!?

i have too much going on to be project manager lol. someone else should do it :3

 

[Alacion]

I wouldn't mind but I'm relatively new to this game and Zelda (only been playing seriously for 2-3 months starting with no knowledge of Brawl at all).

 

[Kataefi]

really we just need someone organised and dedicated to manage it. it can be anyone. as long as the information being fed to this person is correct from the likes of tourney goers/insightful posters then we have liftoff.

i haven't read much of the last page cos i'm at work. i'll look for kay's guide soon

 

[Alacion]

Okay, so how about this idea:

We first build the framework, then tackle each section as we arrive to it.

For example,

-Introduction
-Pros/Cons
-Moveset & Pictures!
-ATs
-Matchup
-Stage selection
-Inspiring vids/words of encouragement
-FAQs
-Thanks
-Record of updates

 

[#HBC | Scary]

That actually looks good!

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

If no one minds I'd like to take on the guide and spear head the project. That's only if no one minds.

 

[Fuujin]

That actually looks good!

As long as you guys promise not to be on that "she goes even with kirby/peach" or "b-air is a 10/10 move" stuff I'm in.
Basically don't describe Zelda as if she's like Luigi/Sheik/Yoshi level on the tier list.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

As long as you guys promise not to be on that "she goes even with kirby/peach" or "b-air is a 10/10 move" stuff I'm in.
Basically don't describe Zelda as if she's like Luigi/Sheik/Yoshi level on the tier list.

*sigh* *smh*

 

[Alacion]

Yeah, if anybody's up for making a guide feel free to take charge and get started.

Here's just a little something I typed up. Hopefully it'll be of some use.

[COLLAPSE="lol"]Title: Not sure what it should be as I'm not very creative so I'm open to any and all ideas. Was thinking about "Goddess' Wisdom: A Community Guide to Princess Zelda *Updated <Insert Date>*"

<Insert title of guide>
<Possible picture here>​

Contents

I. Introduction
II. Summary of Zelda
III. Moveset
IV. Advanced Techniques
V. Strategy
VI. Matchup
VII. Stage Choice
VIII. Inspiration
IX. FAQs
X. Helpful Links
XI. Credits
XII. Update Log

I. Introduction

Zelda. Many of you may know her as the holder of the Triforce of Wisdom and the heroine of Hyrule. Unfortunately, Princess Zelda doesn't have a similar level of recognition in Super Smash Bros. Brawl so hopefully this community driven guide will attract some much needed attention. For current and potential Zelda players out there, this guide will be an excellent wealth of knowledge that has accumulated since 2008. After reading this guide, I hope that you will gain a better understanding of Zelda in Brawl and use this information to improve and rep our favourite princess.

II. Summary of Zelda

The first question before learning a new character is - why? Is Zelda my one way ticket to winning tournaments? Is she going to make me a better player the way Meta Knight does?

Unfortunately, the answer to both these questions is no. Zelda is not for the faint of heart. In fact, being successful with Zelda takes a lot of patience, determination, losses, and accepting the fact that Zelda just isn't as good as many of her peers.

For your convenience, here's a list of Zelda's Pros and Cons.

Pros

• Very powerful attacks
• Attacks have disjointed hitboxes
• Some attacks have transcendent priority
• Many defensive options
• Immune to many chaingrabs and combos
• Din's Fire acts as a controllable projectile
• A reflector and keep-away in Nayru's Love
• A long-ranged recovery
• Long ranged non-tether grab
• Able to transform to her alter ego, Sheik

Cons

• Tall, light, and floaty
• Slow movement on the ground and in the air
• Specials and recovery suffer from ending lag
• Grab has long ending lag
• Projectile is slow and predictable
• Very few approach options
• Aerial game and recovery requires very high precision
• Transform takes time to complete, potentially giving the opponent a free hit

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

transforming to sheik isn't a pro.

 

[Alacion]

transforming to sheik isn't a pro.

You mean it's not a good thing that Zelda has access to a totally different character that is much better than herself?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

You mean it's not a good thing that Zelda has access to a totally different character that is much better than herself?

I don't think Sheik is much better or better than Zelda.

 

[Alacion]

Well, let's get some more opinions on this and if many people agree with what you said, I wouldn't be against removing the last pro.

 

[Fuujin]

• Very powerful attacks
• Attacks have disjointed hitboxes
• Some attacks have transcendent priority
• Many defensive options
• Immune to many chaingrabs and combos
• Din's Fire acts as a controllable projectile
• A reflector and keep-away in Nayru's Love
• A long-ranged recovery
• Long ranged non-tether grab
• Able to transform to her alter ego, Sheik

Cons

• Tall, light, and floaty
• Slow movement on the ground and in the air
• Specials and recovery suffer from ending lag
• Grab has long ending lag
• Projectile is slow and predictable
• Very few approach options
• Aerial game and recovery requires very high precision
• Transform takes time to complete, potentially giving the opponent a free hit

"List of Zelda's pros and cons"
"More pros than cons"



...Wat

 

[Alacion]

But... the cons outweigh the pros plus if it's mostly cons nobody's going to pick Zelda up.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Well, let's get some more opinions on this and if many people agree with what you said, I wouldn't be against removing the last pro.

I doubt you'll find anyone who thinks the way I do on Zelda/Sheik.

 

[Fuujin]

Well you might as well be gonest.
And like you said a lot of the cons are outweighed by the cons.
Like yeah her grab is really long ranged but dat start up....
And yes Nayru's is a reflector but dat ending lag...
Farore's is long range but dat start up AND ending lag
and Din's fire...
I don't think I need to continue
It's just sort of like youre masking the huge negative qualities of the moves and just focusing on the positive, when the negative hampers her a lot more than the positive helps her.

Imo for pros I would just out what she's solidly good at.
good kill power/transcendent priority( you can't really turn that around and say anything negative about that)
The chaingrab thing
I suppose you could leave Din's and Nayru's on there, I mean having a projectile/reflector is nice even if it's really bad.

Edit: and shouldnt Tall light and floaty count as 3 different cons?
Floaty is a pro and a con though.

If Zelda wasn't floaty her recovery would be like Ganondorf level.

 

[Alacion]

K, lemme make some changes.

[COLLAPSE="More lol"]Title: Not sure what it should be as I'm not very creative so I'm open to any and all ideas. Was thinking about "Goddess' Wisdom: A Community Guide to Princess Zelda *Updated <Insert Date>*"

<Insert title of guide>
<Possible picture here>​

Contents

I. Introduction
II. Summary of Zelda
III. Moveset
IV. Advanced Techniques
V. Strategy
VI. Matchup
VII. Stage Choice
VIII. Inspiration
IX. FAQs
X. Helpful Links
XI. Credits
XII. Update Log

I. Introduction

Zelda. Many of you may know her as the holder of the Triforce of Wisdom and the heroine of Hyrule. Unfortunately, Princess Zelda doesn't have a similar level of recognition in Super Smash Bros. Brawl so hopefully this community driven guide will attract some much needed attention. For current and potential Zelda players out there, this guide will be an excellent wealth of knowledge that has accumulated since 2008. After reading this guide, I hope that you will gain a better understanding of Zelda in Brawl and use this information to improve and rep our favourite princess.

II. Summary of Zelda

The first question before learning a new character is - why? Is Zelda my one way ticket to winning tournaments? Is she going to make me a better player the way Meta Knight does?

Unfortunately, the answer to both these questions is no. Zelda is not for the faint of heart. In fact, being successful with Zelda takes a lot of patience, determination, losses, and accepting the fact that Zelda just isn't as good as many of her peers.

For your convenience, here's a list of Zelda's Pros and Cons.

Pros

• Very powerful attacks
• Attacks have disjointed hitboxes
• Some attacks have transcendent priority
• Many defensive options
• Zelda's floatiness makes her immune to many chaingrabs and combos
• Din's Fire acts as a controllable projectile
• A reflector and keep-away in Nayru's Love
• A long-ranged recovery
• Long ranged non-tether grab
• Able to transform to her alter ego, Sheik

Cons

• Zelda is tall, making her a large target
• Zelda is light, making it easy to KO her
• Zelda is a slow faller, reducing her upward resistance
• Slow movement on the ground and in the air
• Din's Fire is slow and predictable
• Nayru's Love has long ending lag
• Farore's Wind has both startup and ending lag
• Good DI shuts down some of Zelda's best attacks
• The lag/duration of many attacks allow Zelda to be easily punished
• Grab has long ending lag
• Projectile is slow and predictable
• Very few approach options
• Aerial game and recovery requires very high precision
• Transform takes time to complete, potentially giving the opponent a free hit

As you can see from this list, Zelda has some very good attributes but is hindered by her cons that outweigh many of her pros.[/COLLAPSE]

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Well you might as well be gonest.
And like you said a lot of the cons are outweighed by the cons.
Like yeah her grab is really long ranged but dat start up....
And yes Nayru's is a reflector but dat ending lag...
Farore's is long range but dat start up AND ending lag
and Din's fire...
I don't think I need to continue
It's just sort of like youre masking the huge negative qualities of the moves and just focusing on the positive, when the negative hampers her a lot more than the positive helps her.

Imo for pros I would just out what she's solidly good at.
good kill power/transcendent priority( you can't really turn that around and say anything negative about that)
The chaingrab thing
I suppose you could leave Din's and Nayru's on there, I mean having a projectile/reflector is nice even if it's really bad.

Edit: and shouldnt Tall light and floaty count as 3 different cons?
Floaty is a pro and a con though.

If Zelda wasn't floaty her recovery would be like Ganondorf level.

Shouldn't a con just be large start up or large cool down on a lot of her moves? While she do have good range on her moves that's attached to it and it's not just Nayru's and her Up B that suffer from the majority of her moves. Wouldn't the immune to CG and combo's be the pro you're talking about with floaty.

 

[Fuujin]

Yeah he put it on there though.

@Cour
Her grab has slow start up, not so much the ending.
I wouldn't really put transformation time as a con, it can be pretty easily avoided by rising transform or smart usage.
Or to simplify it you could just put "Special attacks suffer from start up and/or ending lag" instead of individually listing the same thing on each one, up to you though.
I would also put "No reliable way to force the opponent to approach", imo that's her biggest problem, it's like she was built as a defensive character but has no way to make the opponent come to her.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I don't think Sheik is much better or better than Zelda.

Sheik is better than Zelda, by almost Melee margins.

Edit:

Also Zelda's grab is good.

People are like, lol11frames, and we're like, lolcharizardrange.

Grabbing Marth's while they are retreating fair'ing is hilarious. They're like: "wtf she grabbed my sword".

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Yeah he put it on there though.

@Cour
Her grab has slow start up, not so much the ending.
I wouldn't really put transformation time as a con, it can be pretty easily avoided by rising transform or smart usage.
Or to simplify it you could just put "Special attacks suffer from start up and/or ending lag" instead of individually listing the same thing on each one, up to you though.
I would also put "No reliable way to force the opponent to approach", imo that's her biggest problem, it's like she was built as a defensive character but has no way to make the opponent come to her.

I'll advise you to start chucking din's and camp when you have a life lead that's the only way they'll approach you.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Chucking Din's will only have them throw something at you and shield/dodge the Din's Fire. So you get hit, and they laugh.

 

[Alacion]

Revised again.

[COLLAPSE="."]Title: Not sure what it should be as I'm not very creative so I'm open to any and all ideas. Was thinking about "Goddess' Wisdom: A Community Guide to Princess Zelda *Updated <Insert Date>*"

<Insert title of guide>
<Possible picture here>​

Contents

I. Introduction
II. Summary of Zelda
III. Moveset
IV. Advanced Techniques
V. Strategy
VI. Matchup
VII. Stage Choice
VIII. Inspiration
IX. FAQs
X. Helpful Links
XI. Credits
XII. Update Log

I. Introduction

Zelda. Many of you may know her as the holder of the Triforce of Wisdom and the heroine of Hyrule. Unfortunately, Princess Zelda doesn't have a similar level of recognition in Super Smash Bros. Brawl so hopefully this community driven guide will attract some much needed attention. For current and potential Zelda players out there, this guide will be an excellent wealth of knowledge that has accumulated since 2008. After reading this guide, I hope that you will gain a better understanding of Zelda in Brawl and use this information to improve and rep our favourite princess.

II. Summary of Zelda

The first question before learning a new character is - why? Is Zelda my one way ticket to winning tournaments? Is she going to make me a better player the way Meta Knight does?

Unfortunately, the answer to both these questions is no. Zelda is not for the faint of heart. In fact, being successful with Zelda takes a lot of patience, determination, losses, and accepting the fact that Zelda just isn't as good as many of her peers.

For your convenience, here's a list of Zelda's Pros and Cons.

Pros

• Very powerful attacks
• Attacks have disjointed hitboxes
• Some attacks have transcendent priority
• Many defensive options
• Zelda's floatiness makes her immune to many chaingrabs and combos
• Din's Fire acts as a controllable projectile
• A reflector and keep-away in Nayru's Love
• A long-ranged recovery
• Long ranged non-tether grab
• Able to transform to her alter ego, Sheik

Cons

• Zelda is tall, making her a large target
• Zelda is light, making it easy to KO her
• Zelda is a slow faller, reducing her upward resistance
• Slow movement on the ground and in the air
• All specials suffer from ending lag (Farore's Wind has startup lag as well)
• Good DI shuts down some of Zelda's best attacks
• The lag/duration of many attacks allow Zelda to be easily punished
• Grab has long startup lag
• Projectile is slow and predictable
• Very few approach options
• No reliable way to force the opponent to approach
• Aerial game and recovery requires very high precision

As you can see from this list, Zelda has some very good attributes but is hindered by her cons that outweigh many of her pros.[/COLLAPSE]
A few questions:

1) Should we start a thread for this?
2) Can somebody name this guide?
3) Are there any pictures of Zelda's moves that can be used for explaining her moveset?

Thanks!

 

[Fuujin]

I'll advise you to start chucking din's and camp when you have a life lead that's the only way they'll approach you.

You do realize about 80 of the roster has an aerial that completily nullifies Din's right?

Also Zelda's grab is good.

Now I KNOW you're just trolling.

 

[Fuujin]

Revised again.

[COLLAPSE="."]Title: Not sure what it should be as I'm not very creative so I'm open to any and all ideas. Was thinking about "Goddess' Wisdom: A Community Guide to Princess Zelda *Updated <Insert Date>*"

<Insert title of guide>
<Possible picture here>​

Contents

I. Introduction
II. Summary of Zelda
III. Moveset
IV. Advanced Techniques
V. Strategy
VI. Matchup
VII. Stage Choice
VIII. Inspiration
IX. FAQs
X. Helpful Links
XI. Credits
XII. Update Log

I. Introduction

Zelda. Many of you may know her as the holder of the Triforce of Wisdom and the heroine of Hyrule. Unfortunately, Princess Zelda doesn't have a similar level of recognition in Super Smash Bros. Brawl so hopefully this community driven guide will attract some much needed attention. For current and potential Zelda players out there, this guide will be an excellent wealth of knowledge that has accumulated since 2008. After reading this guide, I hope that you will gain a better understanding of Zelda in Brawl and use this information to improve and rep our favourite princess.

II. Summary of Zelda

The first question before learning a new character is - why? Is Zelda my one way ticket to winning tournaments? Is she going to make me a better player the way Meta Knight does?

Unfortunately, the answer to both these questions is no. Zelda is not for the faint of heart. In fact, being successful with Zelda takes a lot of patience, determination, losses, and accepting the fact that Zelda just isn't as good as many of her peers.

For your convenience, here's a list of Zelda's Pros and Cons.

Pros

• Very powerful attacks
• Attacks have disjointed hitboxes
• Some attacks have transcendent priority
• Many defensive options
• Zelda's floatiness makes her immune to many chaingrabs and combos
• Din's Fire acts as a controllable projectile
• A reflector and keep-away in Nayru's Love
• A long-ranged recovery
• Long ranged non-tether grab
• Able to transform to her alter ego, Sheik

Cons

• Zelda is tall, making her a large target
• Zelda is light, making it easy to KO her
• Zelda is a slow faller, reducing her upward resistance
• Slow movement on the ground and in the air
• All specials suffer from ending lag (Farore's Wind has startup lag as well)
• Good DI shuts down some of Zelda's best attacks
• The lag/duration of many attacks allow Zelda to be easily punished
• Grab has long startup lag
• Projectile is slow and predictable
• Very few approach options
• No reliable way to force the opponent to approach
• Aerial game and recovery requires very high precision

As you can see from this list, Zelda has some very good attributes but is hindered by her cons that outweigh many of her pros.[/COLLAPSE]
A few questions:

1) Should we start a thread for this?
2) Can somebody name this guide?
3) Are there any pictures of Zelda's moves that can be used for explaining her moveset?

Thanks!

That looks more accurate imo.
I would just make a thraed when the. Guide is complete, but if multiple people are working on it, you'd probably better off making a thread.
I'm sure there are pictures of her moves somewhere out there, idk I'm on my phone right now so I can't really look.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

You do realize about 80 of the roster has an aerial that completily nullifies Din's right?

Na I didn't know that thanks for the heads up.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Now I KNOW you're just trolling.

It's really not that bad. >_______>

A bad grab is Ganon's or Falcon's.

In saying that, her throw's are garbage and only good at racking damage, but that's got nothing to do with anything imo.

 

[Fuujin]

...........

 

[KuroganeHammer]

You need to elaborate on stuff more.

I'm not some elitist ***. You can tell me when I'm wrong, but only if you actually explain it.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Zelda's grab range is good. The start up on the grab makes it bad.

Zelda's horizontal air speed is good.

 

[Fuujin]

Her grab is too slow to be used as an OOS option in many cases.
It has the speed of a tether grab with about half of the range.
The range is only slightly less than Charizards yet it's pretty obvious when watching the two characters playstyle how much of a difference the speed makes.
Zelda has pretty much no good OOS options on the upper half of her body.
Not to mention a poor grab limits her options against shield.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I guess I could agree with that.

I honestly don't grab much with Zelda (more of a Shiek thing), but when I do, I find I land them almost all the time.

 

[Fuujin]

Do you play offline?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yes sir.

Do you have any non-sarcastic responses?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Yes sir.

Do you have any non-sarcastic responses?

na, do you know who you're talking to ? you're prob going to get hit with a gif pretty soon. nvrmind he's posting from his phone.

 

[Pachinkosam]

...........

a moment of silence XD WHY

 

[Fuujin]

Yes sir.

Do you have any non-sarcastic responses?

Against who?
Also that wasn't sarcasm, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
You either play offline or the people you're playing against aren't very good.
Cour is like the only person here who doesn't overestimate her or say random *** things that don't work.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

And I said I don't grab much. Considering our f-smash is slower than our grab, and it's one of Zelda's better tools...

It's defs slow, but don't immediately assume people are bad because they get grabbed by Zelda.

Jab > grab is legit imo



Edit: Gawd, why is that pissing me off so much?

Dude, if you're saying that because I landed a GRAB with Zelda that everyone must automatically be bad, holy crap if Zelda ACTUALLY wins a match!

You win matches with Zelda right? >_____>

Edit:

Assuming frame data means everything to you, Zelda's grab comes out on frame 11 (dash grab ofc).

ASSUMING that it's not possible to land anything over 11 frames means that the following moves are now defunct:
Jab
Ftilt
F-smash
U-air
D-air
Nayru's
Farore's
Din's
Ledge attacks
Get up attacks


Right? I dunno.

Obviously this leaves up-smash, dtilt and d-smash as her only decent options ever.

Good to know.

Edit: I think I'll main Wolf.

 

[Alacion]

So yeah... does everybody want to work on a guide together because I can't really do it alone. Or... AL could always take over.