Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[gm jack]

No, I'm 100% sure it's not me. If the Peach knows what (s)he's doing, you can't do a **** thing with Sheik.

Never played a really good Peach, but I've alway just tried to set up a wall of Bair. It outranges everyone of Peaches quick moves as far as I know (as I said, the Peach I regularly play is not that good, so correct me if I'm wrong).

It isn't interesting, but it really limit's Peaches options.

Camp and run away like it's brawl. Peach just isn't fast enough.

 

[T-Cash]

i cant shuffle with sheik expecially her fair thats what i have the most trubble with its like i move slower with sheik when i try and shuffle and i cant put them in combos like i do with other characters can someone give some advice

 

[gm jack]

She has a high short hop and doesn't fall as fast as some others. Therefore, you really do need to focus on when you L cancel as opposed to some time after fast falling the aerial. Some characters short hop so low and fall so fast, the margin of error for an L-cancel covers most of the fall. It doesn't work that easily for Sheik.

focus on when you are landing and not just hitting shield after you do an attack.

 

[T-Cash]

thanks for your help my friend told me my sheik is to defensive and it doesn't fit her playing style. so what could you reccomend should i focus on being aggresive or maybe lay back and jc grab alot

 

[T-Cash]

how do you needle cancel

 

[Nihonjin]

jooohhnnnssssssss.

u will take him at pound im sure

Yes, just not with Sheik..

Never played a really good Peach, but I've alway just tried to set up a wall of Bair. It outranges everyone of Peaches quick moves as far as I know (as I said, the Peach I regularly play is not that good, so correct me if I'm wrong).

If it was that easy I wouldn't be saying it's impossible.

Camp and run away like it's brawl. Peach just isn't fast enough.

Impossible. Peach is like a moving wall, eventually, you'll get cornered.

 

[gm jack]

Yes, just not with Sheik..

If it was that easy I wouldn't be saying it's impossible.

Impossible. Peach is like a moving wall, eventually, you'll get cornered.

I guess it's just a matter of the quality of Peach players we face. What does Peach have against Bair out of interest?

And needle cancelling is jumping and throwing needles so that you land before the animation finishes, so you land laglessly.

 

[Nihonjin]

I guess it's just a matter of the quality of Peach players we face. What does Peach have against Bair out of interest?

Dash attack, Dtilt, wavedashing back to Dsmash and more.

 

[gm jack]

Dash attack, Dtilt, wavedashing back to Dsmash and more.

Dash attack, ok, but do the other two really punish rising Bairs? I can't see how either outranges it. Mostly it's being contested by turnip and float cancelled approaches to try and corner me.

Have to get them tried out some more. I've never thought as peach as that bad for Sheik at all. Might need to get my puff back up for the matchup.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

It isn't as if rising bairs are unpunishable. Dash attack is a perfectly viable option to punish it.

Amsah, you do need to elaborate as to why you think the matchup is so bad. Playing just any peach and playing Armada I'm sure are a lot different. Without the NTSC grab that would definitely make killing and punishing harder.

I agree though about the getting cornered. Sheik has a ton of options but eventually you get pushed to the edge and can't really get around the float safely. Not fun.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I have a feeling Amsah in NTSC will horribly butcher all the Peaches except Armada, where it will be close, and then he'll talk about how hard Peach is despite killing 99% of them.

 

[DJRome]

on the edge, can't sheik just grab ledge into stall?

 

[Nihonjin]

Dash attack, ok, but do the other two really punish rising Bairs? I can't see how either outranges it. Mostly it's being contested by turnip and float cancelled approaches to try and corner me.

I was talking about spacing a bair while landing obviously.

Rising bairs are **** as well, Peach can just run into it, CC and do whatever.
Or wait for it, then do a turnip > aerial and ****.

Have to get them tried out some more. I've never thought as peach as that bad for Sheik at all. Might need to get my puff back up for the matchup.

Play Armada and you'll be convinced.

Amsah, you do need to elaborate as to why you think the matchup is so bad. Playing just any peach and playing Armada I'm sure are a lot different. Without the NTSC grab that would definitely make killing and punishing harder.

Sheik's strengths (edge guarding, gimping, tech chasing, etc) are useless against Peach and Peach's attacks go through everything Sheik can throw at her.

I have a feeling Amsah in NTSC will horribly butcher all the Peaches except Armada, where it will be close, and then he'll talk about how hard Peach is despite killing 99% of them.

Armada's the only Peach I know that does all the stuff that makes me say it's a ridiculously unfair match up, but just because he's the only one to use her like that, doesn't change the fact that she's capable of doing it.

If I end up beating all the American Peaches with Sheik that just means they don't know how to play their character.

on the edge, can't sheik just grab ledge into stall?

Yup, but sooner or later you need to get off and then you're screwed.

 

[pockyD]

what happens when if an american sheik beats armada

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik's strengths (edge guarding, gimping, tech chasing, etc) are useless against Peach and Peach's attacks go through everything Sheik can throw at her.

I agree (?) that Sheik sucks against characters that don't get tech chased, comboed, edgeguarded, gimped, and who can neutralize her range either by spacing tools or priority (or both).

I also will agree with you that rising Bair isn't good against grounded Peach. Or almost anything that's grounded, really, because of the same things you covered.

 

[gm jack]

Play Armada and you'll be convinced.

It could be any character in the game and get that impression. I'm not that good at all. I guess it really is just a matter of the Peach I play regularly needing to step it up a bit then.

The little bit play has been needles and grabs at low percents and then shffling into jab then either grab or combo once the CC is gone. Saying that, I see what you mean, Sheik seems to just have general movement speed on Peach.

Saying that, could you not just get a single needle hit and ledge stall the timer out (in theory). What does peach have to steal the ledge from you? It's playing incredibly gay, but I can't see Peach jumping in between Vanishes to steal the ledge effectively.

 

[Nihonjin]

what happens when if an american sheik beats armada

Then I'll be eating my words. But I'm quite sure that won't be the case.

The little bit play has been needles and grabs at low percents and then shffling into jab then either grab or combo once the CC is gone.

I know, and I'm telling you it shouldn't work. If it does it's because the Peach doesn't know what (s)he's doing.

Saying that, could you not just get a single needle hit and ledge stall the timer out (in theory). What does peach have to steal the ledge from you? It's playing incredibly gay, but I can't see Peach jumping in between Vanishes to steal the ledge effectively.

Roll > Light shield > Grab the edge?

No clue, making it up as I read it. I'm sure there's something she can do.

Besides, ledge stalling for 8 minutes..no. I have a sense of pride you know..:embarrass

 

[KirbyKaze]

Amsah, I think I like you.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

ive always found that sheik really shines with aggressive aerials when peach is trying to get back on her feet. Also downthrow > insert here seems to work well. I also like needle harassment. Or is all that just me?

 

[KirbyKaze]

That all works, but Peach has counters to them.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

you dont think the matchup is 55-45 / 50-50? I think it is relatively even. I think the big issue is finding a sheik that is as good as the peach is. if the peach is the better player shell win its too close of a match

 

[KirbyKaze]

I would give numbers, but everyone seems to get their own interpretation of them or bring them up as a means to discredit me later. Moreover, I haven't played Armada. Which is important, because from the sounds of it he's the only truly developed Peach vs Sheik (among other characters).

 

[Nihonjin]

Amsah, I think I like you.

I like me you too..

ive always found that sheik really shines with aggressive aerials when peach is trying to get back on her feet.

Not really. If you miss, you get combo'd. And sadly, it's quite easy to miss.

Also downthrow > insert here seems to work well.

The problem isn't punishing after a grab, it's getting the grab in the first place.

I also like needle harassment. Or is all that just me?

Doesn't work. It you throw them horizontally from a distance, they float over it.
If you angle it, they can combo you,

you dont think the matchup is 55-45 / 50-50? I think it is relatively even.

I wish.

Once both players reach a certain level and use their characters to their full potential, Sheik gets *****.

I think the big issue is finding a sheik that is as good as the peach is.

What are you implying..? :embarrass

 

[The Irish Mafia]

sheik wins the peach matchup, a HELL of a lot better than 55-45

johns

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't think any of us can really comment on the matchup against someone of Armada's caliber.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

i dont really mean against armada, just peaches in general. And i wasn't implying anything about anyone better than anyone Amsah . Granted im no pro and I would be ***** by armada but most of us (yea yea i know Amsah) dont play armada regularly. I'm really only saying that well...
falco seems to be the hardest matchup
fox is bad but i feel hes better than falco
marth is lol
jiggs is doable
captain faclon ~ evenish slight-mild favor to sheik
and peach feels ~even as well

but thats all personal experience ive never played armada or a peach of that caliber i just (as an amateur) feel that sheik has bigger issues than peach

 

[GOD!]

When mango and hbox beat mew2king's fox, you don't say that the matchup is in jiggs favor. You just say the better player won or that he played smarter.

Maybe armada is just better than Amsah. Maybe the better player is winning because he just plays smarter and is more adaptive and patient.
Chudat beats really excellent people with ICs. That doesn't make ICs better at the match-up, maybe Chu is just smarter.

Maybe the match-up is even.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

watched a video of u vs armada amsah...do you advocate turnip catching? I think its a good idea but i get a lotta of crap for doing it from my friends

 

[KirbyKaze]

Once both players reach a certain level and use their characters to their full potential, Sheik gets *****.

It is fortunate that nobody plays Sheik or Peach to their full potential then.

 

[unknown522]

Pfff..try 80-20 in Peach's favor..95-5 in PAL..:embarrass

Once both players reach a certain level and use their characters to their full potential, Sheik gets *****.

c'mon, it's not that bad.

well, maybe in PAL.

It's pretty **** close in NTSC. I dunno about PAL, because of the crap d-throw and weak f-air.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fair is unaltered.

It's Uair that's piss weak.

 

[Nihonjin]

Maybe armada is just better than Amsah. Maybe the better player is winning because he just plays smarter and is more adaptive and patient.

Or maybe I'm right. And you don't know what you're talking about.

watched a video of u vs armada amsah...do you advocate turnip catching? I think its a good idea but i get a lotta of crap for doing it from my friends

When you're on the ground, yes. In the air, no.

It is fortunate that nobody plays Sheik or Peach to their full potential then.

You know what I mean..:embarrass

 

[soap]

my anti peach strat is dash dance the float cancel into shffl fair

u cant punish the missed aerial directly cuz there is no lag but u r jumping over the jab/dsmash with impecable spacing.

and uh, i like to be aggresive for the most part and not let her push me around the stage. aggresive needle approaches if she is floating low. mid to high, stuff with bair.

pretty basic stuff i know, hope it helps

 

[KirbyKaze]

I remember when me and soap talked about strategy a lot.

There's a lot of complexity to being gay in this game.

 

[Nihonjin]

my anti peach strat is dash dance the float cancel into shffl fair

u cant punish the missed aerial directly cuz there is no lag but u r jumping over the jab/dsmash with impecable spacing.

Smart Peach doesn't jab or Dsmash after missing you, but Nair you when you jump. You either get hit by the fair or the Nair. If you dodge both, then you're worse off anyway because Peach is floating again, but you've been pushed back a bit.

 

[soap]

her jump is kinda slow. if she is always nairing, u prolly can grab.

but i have a certain way of baiting out the jab or dsmash cuz i make it look like i am going in for the grab running straight at them, then u jump backwards out of the run just out of jab range to space your shffl.

u dont jump forward from a distance away, that gives them too much time to react to your jump.

but something i do that i don't see used too often is turning your bairs into fastfall turn standing needles. this gives u alot of ground control being able to bair camp but do standing needle when u see them evading your obvious spacing

 

[Nihonjin]

her jump is kinda slow. if she is always nairing, u prolly can grab.

You can't..=/

but i have a certain way of baiting out the jab or dsmash cuz i make it look like i am going in for the grab running straight at them, then u jump backwards out of the run just out of jab range to space your shffl.

Even you managed to bait a jab or dsmash, she can dtilt your fair.

 

[Devil Ray]

lol, i'm a big amsah fan, but the matchup ain't that bad. after trying for years to beat peach with using falco, sheik is a lot easier. if you think sheik gets comboed, try using falco on a really good peach. and a lot of ppl claim that matchup is even.

it's essentially even, but sheik has a slight advantage IMO.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

I don't think anyone implied that Sheik gets combo'd at all. Amsah is just saying that sheik gets ***** at the highest level of play. The "highest level" is pretty important to this specific debate. Genesis made it pretty obvious that Armada's peach was on a different level than every other peach, so I can imagine playing his peach isn't the same at all.

You guys are just going to go back and forth, because Amsah is playing a completely different peach than the rest of us and Armada just cuts down Sheik's viable options. I think the matchup is even too, but I haven't played any peach's of that calibur, so how would I know?

 

[Lawrencelot]

I watched Amsah play against Armada this weekend. Amsah mostly used Fox, but I can agree that there's not much you can do against Armada's Peach with Sheik. After Armada got Amsah's sheik offstage with a downsmash or aerial, there was no way Amsah could get back. Even if he grabbed the ledge, Armada was just covering all options. With Sheik, Amsah was mainly trying to get to the stage, and to gain a position where he can do at least something. And when he did hit or grab Armada, he couldn't kill him because of the lack of kill moves in PAL and because Peach can just float back to the stage instead of getting gimped like spacies.
In NTSC it would be different. There you can at least punish any mistakes Peach makes, with grab or uair or whatever. I hope you will still try to use Sheik against Armada, Amsah. Just imagine your gayest type of Sheik ever, then play even gayer.