Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Devil Ray]

peach is the same, but sheik's matchup against her is different without the throw.

btw, we need to name the ntsc sheik dthrow. i think it deserves a special name

 

[Luma]

****?

10rapes

 

[pockyD]

the reason why there are no topsheik-mains is easy, amsah said it in a nice way, but to be honest, you guys just suck because you need your broken grab for everything

that's not a reason... we HAVE our broken grab for everything

why doesn't europe have any "top" jiggly mains?

sometimes it just works out that way

 

[Devil Ray]

****?

10rapes

the devil's choke?

 

[Nihonjin]

that's not a reason... we HAVE our broken grab for everything

why doesn't europe have any "top" jiggly mains?

sometimes it just works out that way

Lack of talent..? =D

 

[DJRome]

i was under the impression that to even kill puff the sheik has to stay mobile in the air and basically play as a way worse version

i wonder is rc is able to serve as a cp against jiggs and then just run away with needles the whole time

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

Saying soccer is to football with PAL is to NTSC is not even remotely true.

3 our of the top 4 players play a character that's the same in PAL as in NTSC. And my character is relatively worse than in PAL, so no, it doesn't matter.

I was actually comparing a football's flight characteristics to a soccer ball's. Similar, but different. Heres what I'm saying: you can't say "well Sheik is worse in our game and look how well she does in ours, so surely she must do at least as well in yours". There's a descriptive phrase we use in economics (other classes too, but w.e) when comparing things; "all things being equal". You see the problem is not all things are equal. Most (minimum of Fox, Falco, and Sheik) of the matchups we talk about here have characters that are in one way or another different in PAL than in NTSC. You just can't justify NTSC matchups with PAL ones. It wouldn't matter which version was used at Pound 4, and there would not be two tier lists otherwise.

 

[stelzig]

^The differences still really aren't that big and amsah already showed that he can perform just fine with sheik in NTSC as well. And he isn't even directly justifying the matchups with PAL ones... Did you not read his other posts? He's been explaining why, and by how much the matchups are different between the versions. >_>¨

The metagame for sheik in NTSC being underdeveloped or focused too much around one aspect (or just coincidential as pockyD suggests) sounds like a pretty good explanation. Like pockyD mentioned puff isn't dominating as much in PAL either despite being unchanged while all the higher tiers are worse. Unless you here as well think that we can't say jiggs is better in PAL in those matchups because they are different...

 

[NJzFinest]

How do I **** Marth?

 

[Devil Ray]

imma start it now, the NTSC sheik dthrow is now called the "Devil's Choke". get at me! :-D

and someone in europe will start winning with puff soon. europe has no idea how broken she is

 

[KirbyKaze]

lol, nicaboy did pretty well against hbox. i was impressed. looking like reno on that battlefield

Was this livestream? Will there be vids?

 

[Plairnkk]

How do I **** Marth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2b0-PVfrG8

actually i never watched that before, haha not that good. but i have no good vids vs marth. i never lose to marth tho ever, i can explain it later when i gots time

 

[nicaboy]

Lol my bad posting on my cell is dumb. I meant when she is on the ground as well even though she is gonna be 95% of the time in the air. Im telling you guys its even! @kk no it was not streamed but the video is up already. Look for a guy on youtube under the name cryptiksmash. I would post the link but im on my cell <.<. Rc is a great stage. You can move around so freely.

 

[Devil Ray]

Was this livestream? Will there be vids?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l37mIuLVIqw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clPZ2qIg4Fk&feature=related

a couple of fluke suicide rests, but nicaboy did well against arguably the 2nd best player in the country/maybe world. never saw the nicaboy play before

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

^The differences still really aren't that big and amsah already showed that he can perform just fine with sheik in NTSC as well. And he isn't even directly justifying the matchups with PAL ones... Did you not read his other posts? He's been explaining why, and by how much the matchups are different between the versions. >_>¨

The metagame for sheik in NTSC being underdeveloped or focused too much around one aspect (or just coincidential as pockyD suggests) sounds like a pretty good explanation. Like pockyD mentioned puff isn't dominating as much in PAL either despite being unchanged while all the higher tiers are worse. Unless you here as well think that we can't say jiggs is better in PAL in those matchups because they are different...

so... thats like basically the same post i gave that response to in the the first place....

@Njz
ive basically reduced sheik vs marth to a simple but efficient system. also i hate marth, hes still easy i just dont like how he works. If marth is far away charge/throw needles. If hes being campy charge needles many will charge at you (cuz marths are just silly cstickers at heart). At lower percentages go for grabs->dthrow->ftilt+aerial/aerial depending on percent. you can also dash attack but i prefer that at mid to high percents. punish them with ftilt to aerial. to kill them use ftilt/dtilt/dthrow/dashattack to get em in the air and either slap or to change it up uair. When they are recovering if they are parallel try to hit them with needles (lol loss of momentum death) otherwise grab the ledge and CAREFULLY (or not at all) bair. he can spite kill you with dair. oh yea and stay below him or at his level and dont approach from the air. on levels like ys if he gets above me on the platforms i like to show him i can be gay from below too (thats how they like it anyways XD).

tl;dr
ftilt punish
dash attack/ dthrow combos
needles
uair/slap/ ledgehop bair finish
stay below or parallel to him

 

[Plairnkk]

not bad, getting close to jiggly with sheik is pretty easy tho, its just getting that **** win.

 

[Plairnkk]

oh and yes, as sheik mains, we kinda suck compared to what we could be. amsah showed that. im working on gettng my game like his and not centralizing as much on grabs, so hopefully i can get that down soon!

 

[Nihonjin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2b0-PVfrG8

actually i never watched that before, haha not that good. but i have no good vids vs marth. i never lose to marth tho ever, i can explain it later when i gots time

Money match my Marth next time then..:embarrass

 

[Spife]

Money match my Marth next time then..:embarrass

I was only two stocked by amsah's marth in this one friendly he sand bagged in so I'm like pro-status nao right guyz?

 

[Plairnkk]

Money match my Marth next time then..:embarrass

as much money as you would like brothah (:

 

[ZoSo]

Amsah, minor detail, but Fox's uair is the same in PAL and NTSC.

Dsmash seems like kind of a moot point because you crazy Euros tech it 100% of the time anyway.

Just curious, why do you think Peach/Sheik is in Peach's favor?

 

[GOD!]

Bair > Ftilt
Bair > Utilt
Bair > Dtilt
Bair > Fsmash
Bair > Upsmash
Bair > Dsmash
Bair > Jab
CC Rest > Dash Attack
Crouch Rest > Grab
Crouch Rest > Jab

Not much of a ground game..o_O

Ganon beats sheik on the ground too, clearly.

Warlock Punch > Ftilt
Warlock Punch > Utilt
Warlock Punch > Dtilt
Warlock Punch > Fsmash
Warlock Punch > Upsmash
Warlock Punch > Dsmash
Warlock Punch > Jab
Warlock Punch > Dash Attack
Warlock Punch > Grab
Warlock Punch > Jab

Also, something important:

Chain > Warlock punch
(This gives sheik a ray of hope.)

If you are talking about priority, then obviously....

SPACINNGGGGGGGG.

IF you are talking about the "better" move in general.. then see above.

 

[Nihonjin]

Amsah, minor detail, but Fox's uair is the same in PAL and NTSC.

That's what people have been saying, but having played PAL for God knows how many years, something about it feels different in NTSC..

Dsmash seems like kind of a moot point because you crazy Euros tech it 100% of the time anyway.

Just curious, why do you think Peach/Sheik is in Peach's favor?

Like Jiggs, none of Sheiks crap works on Peach.

No tech chasing, no edge guards, no gimps (unless the Peach is dumb), no standard combos, etc. While all of Peach's crap works on Sheik.

Her Dtilt > all Sheiks tilts and beats her aerials when spaced right (and combo's into horrible ****, watch my match against Armada (third one)). But I already conceded, it's a lot easier in NTSC, I underestimated the evilness that is Sheiks downthrow..

<snip>

Yes GOD!, I know nothing about spacing or priority, I didn't take that into consideration when I wrote all of that, you're right.. :embarrass

 

[gm jack]

Ganon beats sheik on the ground too, clearly.

Warlock Punch > Ftilt
Warlock Punch > Utilt
Warlock Punch > Dtilt
Warlock Punch > Fsmash
Warlock Punch > Upsmash
Warlock Punch > Dsmash
Warlock Punch > Jab
Warlock Punch > Dash Attack
Warlock Punch > Grab
Warlock Punch > Jab

Also, something important:

Chain > Warlock punch
(This gives sheik a ray of hope.)

If you are talking about priority, then obviously....

SPACINNGGGGGGGG.

IF you are talking about the "better" move in general.. then see above.

Yeah, but Jigg's Bair is fast, **** near lagless and with broken, disjointed range. Oh, and jiggs is really **** maneuverable in the air giving her easy horizontal and vertical spacing or it.

 

[GOD!]

Yeah, but Jigg's Bair is fast, **** near lagless and with broken, disjointed range. Oh, and jiggs is really **** maneuverable in the air giving her easy horizontal and vertical spacing or it.

That's why puff wins if you go to the air with her.

 

[Nihonjin]

^It's the same on the ground..

 

[GOD!]

I love hypothetical bros.. bair> all. puff wins.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ganon beats sheik on the ground too, clearly.

Warlock Punch > Ftilt
Warlock Punch > Utilt
Warlock Punch > Dtilt
Warlock Punch > Fsmash
Warlock Punch > Upsmash
Warlock Punch > Dsmash
Warlock Punch > Jab
Warlock Punch > Dash Attack
Warlock Punch > Grab
Warlock Punch > Jab

Also, something important:

Chain > Warlock punch
(This gives sheik a ray of hope.)

If you are talking about priority, then obviously....

SPACINNGGGGGGGG.

IF you are talking about the "better" move in general.. then see above.

I swear your posts get progressively worse.

 

[gm jack]

I love hypothetical bros.. bair> all. puff wins.

Not entirely. Sheik is faster on the ground and can compete with range. Also, she has a good projectile. However, if you try and compete straight up with Bair, you will probably lose. It makes life a complete pain.

However, as said, it's a tough matchup, and a lot of Sheiks good stuff is neutralized by how floaty jiggs is, and Sheik seems to have everything perfect for combing a rest setups, from Sheiks weight, fall speed and landing lag on her Up-b.

Of course, Sheik is a still a great character and a good one will force the jiggs to work for a awin, but it's not exactly in Sheik's favour if the Jiggs has a clue.

 

[Devil Ray]

Her Dtilt > all Sheiks tilts and beats her aerials when spaced right (and combo's into horrible ****, watch my match against Armada (third one)). But I already conceded, it's a lot easier in NTSC, I underestimated the evilness that is Sheiks downthrow..

yeah, but how is the devil's choke a weakness for the US players? you don't reeealllly think that, right? it's obvious there are other factors as to the lack of sheiks in the US

hmmm, i think we're going about the jiggs discussion the wrong way. "ground" vs aerial" seems kind of lame. yes, waiting for jiggs to land after doing a billion aerials is a good strat, but what if she just runs away? and sheik can do the same but it requires platforms and certain angles. i don't think ground vs air game is the way to look at the matchup.

 

[pockyD]

what's the devil's choke

 

[DJRome]

a contrived name for ntsc sheik dthrow

 

[pockyD]

i'll just stick to calling it the dthrow

 

[DJRome]

i agree

 

[GOD!]

I swear your posts get progressively worse.

Thank you for your intelligent contribution to the sheik discussion.

 

[nicaboy]

Ya god(i hate calling that since im a christian and your not god) that post wasn't even funny. I fail to see the humor in it. Anyway amsah what do you think of the ice climbers match up? I think thats the worse match up for sheik. She cant really split them up very well. As for puff im sticking with even or in sheiks favor. You can camp well from afar assuming your up in the match. If she cc jump and shoot needles. Never grab unless its a whiffed rest or your positive your gonna land it. I found out the hard way. Jigs has the advantage in the air obviously but sheik can contest it with her own. Platfroms help alot. You recover you die. You hit her in a cc with dash attack or whiff a grab you die. When she is on the ground i found down smash is great. I watch some drephen vs sliq and he use it on occasion. Down tilt is a great set up(sup tec0). I wish a was a better poster but im sticking with my opinion.

 

[Plairnkk]

jiggs who knows matchup>sheik who knows matchup pretty easily

keeping it close is easy, winning the set is stupidly hard!!

from my experience at least lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

Thank you for your intelligent contribution to the sheik discussion.

If you ever made useful posts this might have affected me.

 

[❀W.E.M.P.❀]

I am taking KK's side just because his matches against SS were the sexiest thing I have ever seen sheik related.

<3

Ganon is one of my favorite matchups with sheik, no technical reason I can write, just good fun.

 

[pockyD]

i think the most important thing by far is that sheik needs to force vertical movement on the part of the jiggs player... she has pretty high/quick jumps, while jiggly labors to move up and down and has much more trouble spacing at angles than on an even plane

properly played (if you have infinite patience ), I think that KJ64 would be one of the best stages to fight jiggly despite its ******** size - the high platforms on both sides just help your recovery options and camping ability (good needle angles, forcing jiggly to chase you) so much