Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Ministry]

marth has greater range that puff go beat mango


easier said than done.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

**** you got me there. You're probably right, marth > sheik.

 

[gm jack]

It's about learning the match up. I'm pretty good at it, but it's still pretty bad because of the whole "make a mistake, get tippered and get edge guarded" part of the match up. However, if you keep yourself outside his range in neutral situations, and as soon as you get a hit, keep up the pressure, you can get good damage.

Even without the lulz worthy grab combos the NSTC sheik's get, it's matter of getting grab to push him into bad positions, tilts and aerials to build percents to take him off stage and then gimping him as appropriate.

Also, never approach unless you have an opening. You have the projectile, so don't even run at a Marth. It usually ends badly because it allows him to really abuse his range and mobility on the ground.

 

[Reptar]

So your basically saying abuse needles and camp it out? when he rushes down grab and tilt punish?

 

[soap]

I like fighting marths.

fox trot to boost grab is what I mostly do during the matchup.

needles are not overrated at all. Just charge them up a little bit and marth will come running right at you.

I do alot of needle turn bairs in this matchup. allows u to aerial outside of marths utilt range and over his dtilt.

you need to play very carefully and smart however to get around his range, but much more manageable than fox imo

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yeah Bair is pretty good.

 

[Reptar]

i still have a lot of trouble with needle turns

 

[Ministry]

I will try that soap. I also need to WD OOS more. I do it, but clearly not enough.

@ Sveet

I never said he has the advantage, I just think its not a free win against a good marth.

 

[Witchblade]

Quick off-topic question: for how many frames do ledge attack and ledge roll hog the edge? Is it really the same duration and does it matter if you're over 100%?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

-------------------------------------
Ledge stand <100%

Total: 34
Invincible: 1-30
-------------------------------------
Ledge stand 100%>

Total: 59
Invincible: 1-55
-------------------------------------
Ledge roll <100%

Total: 49
Invincible: 1-39
-------------------------------------
Ledge roll 100%>

Total: 79
Invincible: 1-71
-------------------------------------
Ledge attack <100%

Total: 54
Invulnerable: 1-21
Hit: 25-34
-------------------------------------
Ledge attack 100%>

Total: 69
Invulnerable: 1-53
Hit: 57-59
-------------------------------------
Ledge jump <100%

Total: 57
Invulnerable: 1-14
Soonest FF: 40
-------------------------------------
Ledge jump 100%>

Total: 57
Invincible: 1-19
Soonest FF: 45
-------------------------------------

 

[Reptar]

did you have all of these presaved and awaiting the question orrr copy and paste from another thread because this is some good stuff in s ashort period of time

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/sdmcoolvid/frames.html

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

If you throw a full flurry of needles (and this next part is the most important) and exactly 1 uncharged needle, they will run at you like the world is ending. I have literally never seen a different reaction.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ hahahahaha its so true

 

[Witchblade]

[frame data]

That is what I found as well, but it doesn't say how long the edge is hogged. Does anyone know?

Thanks anyway though.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

the edge is hogged during the whole animation.

 

[soap]

edge hogging is so cheap

 

[KirbyKaze]

grabbing is cheap

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

peach is an anagram for cheap

 

[john!]

sheik is an anagram for hikes

sheik players need to take a hike

ooh burn

 

[Witchblade]

the edge is hogged during the whole animation.

Oh, wow, so ledge attacks hog the edge longer than rolls <100%, but vice versa >100%. Does it matter for the duration if the animation is interrupted, i.e. if you're hit during the animation?

 

[KirbyKaze]

hiking is pretty common while camping.

guys we have to camp more.

 

[ZoSo]

So what else is new?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Oh, wow, so ledge attacks hog the edge longer than rolls <100%, but vice versa >100%. Does it matter for the duration if the animation is interrupted, i.e. if you're hit during the animation?

yeah if u get hit during your roll, you are no longer "occupying" the edge.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm practicing my Sheik ditto CG.

 

[soap]

sheik is an anagram for hikes

sheik players need to take a hike

ooh burn

**** that's cool

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

Here's an anagram for captain falcon.
Fact: lion can't plan.
I therefore deduce that the reason the lion can't plan (to be top tier) is because of the thorn (sheiks needles) in his paw(nch?)
So speaking of needles and back to samus... it seems that some standing missiles go over my needles. Am I supposed to chafe needles for those, or jab/etc. ?

 

[Witchblade]

So speaking of needles and back to samus... it seems that some standing missiles go over my needles. Am I supposed to chafe needles for those, or jab/etc. ?

Duck -> dashdance -> taunt (-> DI).

 

[dudutsai]

guys we have to camp more.

Will do!!!

but only if I can pretend to be Sheik while playing Jigglypuff

 

[Teczer0]

D=

Guys, social thread random stuff >___<

 

[KevinM]

Yo relax it's all jelly.

 

[Witchblade]

I have a new question.

What do you guys do if you land in front of a marth after aerialing in his shield? I find that most of the traditional options in that situation don't work. Dsmash doesn't push him back far enough (magnetic hands ftl), ftilt is too slow, jab just delays the shieldgrab and grab isn't reliably fast enough. I have most success with uptilt, dtilt and evasive stuff (buffered dodges).

 

[Teczer0]

That largely depends on how close you are to marth when you land.

Uptilt is nice because it strikes players as an odd move and not many people really get how to counter the move so uptilt is a good idea if you misspaced. If I want to be safe I usually do dash away if I spaced right. Sometimes I just do another SH fair/land grab if they're scared.

 

[soap]

I have a new question.

What do you guys do if you land in front of a marth after aerialing in his shield? I find that most of the traditional options in that situation don't work. Dsmash doesn't push him back far enough (magnetic hands ftl), ftilt is too slow, jab just delays the shieldgrab and grab isn't reliably fast enough. I have most success with uptilt, dtilt and evasive stuff (buffered dodges).

I usually dash away if spaced right.

but i do autocancelled fair into a grab on shields quite a bit. It doesn't technically work framewise, but I catch people with it quite a bit

 

[john!]

I have a new question.

What do you guys do if you land in front of a marth after aerialing in his shield? I find that most of the traditional options in that situation don't work. Dsmash doesn't push him back far enough (magnetic hands ftl), ftilt is too slow, jab just delays the shieldgrab and grab isn't reliably fast enough. I have most success with uptilt, dtilt and evasive stuff (buffered dodges).

crouch lol

 

[soap]

I have a new question.

What do you guys do if you land in front of a marth after aerialing in his shield? I find that most of the traditional options in that situation don't work. Dsmash doesn't push him back far enough (magnetic hands ftl), ftilt is too slow, jab just delays the shieldgrab and grab isn't reliably fast enough. I have most success with uptilt, dtilt and evasive stuff (buffered dodges).

Was just watching some vids from this past weekend.
Turns out I had my first bracket match recorded last weekend against a marth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPWilOMR64s&feature=fvwk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72LS1a107Jc&feature=fvwk

keep in mind this is my first tourney since pound 4.... And the marth's not that good

 

[Reptar]

when i approach with sheik should i approach with a nair, or just weave through plats or soemthing, basically my question is whats the most effective way to get in?

 

[KirbyKaze]

These are very vague so we can't answer very clearly. It depends on matchup.

Generally Fair is better than Nair. More range.

 

[Reptar]

yea sorry, Your right ill be more specific next time and ok, ill start trying to fair for aproaching

 

[Dark Hart]

I'm practicing my Sheik ditto CG.

don't JC grab, trust me, it's so much easier that way

at least try it