Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[Sky`]

I love you man. Finally, people see it from our point of view.

I'm in the Smash Back Room for Brawl. I'm trying to Convey this point.

MK mains aren't all tyrannical people that picked him cause he's amazing. If you would have played through Kirby's Super Star (Best game Ever) you would probably have mained him in the beginning too.

It's not fair that we have to eviscerate a character so easily without respect to the people that main him. The only way we can rectify this is if we have a **** good backing on Banning him.

Again.

My opinion on the matter?

I'm riding the fence, hard.

 

[Woozle]

People are going to vote to ban MK on the premise that they just can't beat him, regardless of the degree of the Smasher.

Little to none will vote for what's best for the community.

EX. If MK was banned right now, Hell, i'll admit it, it would make tournaments so much easier. I wouldn't be so anxious all the time, and my Characters will become more viable if that happens. Peach has answers to the majority of the cast save MK and maybe a few others. But MK the most. So it would just make me happy to use GaW/Peach in tournament.

But then, Morally, that's messed up. The people who spent time and effort into mK, and now we're just saying, 'yeah choose a new main kbai'. Not to mention the fact that perhaps it's the smarts of the player that are lacking, rather than just the character.

Get me?

I do see your point.

But I think the other side is stuck in a similar issue right now-

If we don't ban Metaknight, it appears as though the smash community is simply saying "play better." Now to someone who has put thier heart and soul into mastering a Pikachu main and a marth counter, say, is it not just as unethical to tell them that they just have to "wait and see", or "pick a better counter"?

Maybe it would be worse to tell metaknight mains to pack sand- but to me it seems like six in one hand or half a dozen in the other.

 

[Sky`]

Not really. No character has a completely even matchup or advantageous matchup against MK, therefore each character's viabilty as a given is without MK factored in.

Wait, nvm. According to SmashWiki, one of the reasons Kirby is so high is his near-even matchup with MK... well, carry on. But seriously. Think about what will happen for the next Smash game if we decide to ban one character now.

What does that have to do with anything? I'm not following.

 

[Anth0ny]

Okay, I'm starting to think that a temp ban may be the smartest thing to do at this point. And when I say this point, I mean just after Genesis.

M2K has said countless times that MK is the best character because all of the pros developing him much further then any other characters. Here's a quote:

yes it does, top MKs sharing tricks evolves the character far more than it would be normally. I bet MK is already at the point of being almost fully mastered while all the other characters are comparatively unevolved for their potential, making things 10 times worse than they seem

So, let's make things not 10 times worse. A temp ban on MK, I'd say 6 months would be fine. All the pro MKs pick up new characters and develop their game farther. At the same time, without MK being there to absolutely **** certain characters, players using the lesser used characters make it farther into tournaments, and therefore develop that character more.

Of course, the main problem with a temp ban would be "What good is developing all of these characters for a short amount of time, when MK is just going to return in 6 months, and the matchup vs. MK is completely unchanged?"

I guess that's why a temp ban would be no good lol >_>

 

[OverLade]

Wait, nvm. According to SmashWiki, one of the reasons Kirby is so high is his near-even matchup with MK... well, carry on. But seriously. Think about what will happen for the next Smash game if we decide to ban one character now.

MK ***** the hell out of kirby if you play it right.

Infinity was able to beat Chudat, who is clearly one of the smartest players in the US.

Interestingly enough Infi is switching his main to kirby XD.

 

[CRASHiC]

With all due respect to lee martin (as he does very well with Lucario) , the ban on MK is so that MK players who can't do well without him....dont.

This.
Mew2King can win with King Dededee, he doesn't need Metaknight.
If these tops are really winning on skill, they could continue to win without Metaknight.

 

[BOB SAGET]

I'm in the Smash Back Room for Brawl. I'm trying to Convey this point.

MK mains aren't all tyrannical people that picked him cause he's amazing. If you would have played through Kirby's Super Star (Best game Ever) you would probably have mained him in the beginning too.

It's not fair that we have to eviscerate a character so easily without respect to the people that main him. The only way we can rectify this is if we have a **** good backing on Banning him.

Again.

My opinion on the matter?

I'm riding the fence, hard.

i picked MK before i even knew about the tier list. if MK gets banned then i need a new main and that wud suck.

 

[Woozle]

Not really. No character has a completely even matchup or advantageous matchup against MK, therefore each character's viabilty as a given is without MK factored in.

Wait, nvm. According to SmashWiki, one of the reasons Kirby is so high is his near-even matchup with MK... well, carry on. But seriously. Think about what will happen for the next Smash game if we decide to ban one character now.

We may ban one character then? Or two? Or none?

 

[|RK|]

What does that have to do with anything? I'm not following.

Most of my posts are streams of conscience. I corrected myself afterwards. ^_^;

 

[Ru-fi-o]

So, let's make things not 10 times worse. A temp ban on MK, I'd say 6 months would be fine. All the pro MKs pick up new characters and develop their game farther. At the same time, without MK being there to absolutely **** certain characters, players using the lesser used characters make it farther into tournaments, and therefore develop that character more.

Why the **** is it our fault because your backrooms and character boards are full of player swho are ****ing hot *** garbage?

 

[Ax00x0]

This isn't even a question...while I agree waiting for Apeix, Devestation, and Genesis results would be more optimal, do you really think the results will be any different? Largly the same people are going to be there. They are expensive tournies. Combine that with the WHOBO results, you're kidding yourself if you think there's going to be any difference.

The "top player happening to play a top character" argument was dead on arrival, why is it still being used. M2K's "He wins because other charatcers haven't developed yet" argument made me literally LOL.

He breaks the game, and forces other to use him to just stand a chance. Ban him, so we can get back to enhancing the metagame. Because even around here, people are either picking up Metaknight, or quitting because of MetaKnight.

It's not fair that we have to eviscerate a character so easily without respect to the people that main him. The only way we can rectify this is if we have a **** good backing on Banning him.

See, I can sympathize with this, I really do. However, there are 2 problems with this:

1) It was pretty obvious even early on that MK was too powerful. Less time would have been lost if would have been banned earlier. Maybe not a fair argument giving the time it take to develop the metagame, but...

2) Even so, the hours the MK players will lose is far outwieghed by all the people who DON'T play him, and who at best have a 50:50 chance against him. Trust me, I'd bet money on the fact that Brawl community and metagame is SHRINKING, not growing, because of him alone. Hell, it's happening around here.


Thank christ NM is a smart enough state to re-ban him after Genesis. We're pretty much divorcing ourselves from SBR.

 

[Sky`]

I do see your point.

But I think the other side is stuck in a similar issue right now-

If we don't ban Metaknight, it appears as though the smash community is simply saying "play better." Now to someone who has put thier heart and soul into mastering a Pikachu main and a marth counter, say, is it not just as unethical to tell them that they just have to "wait and see", or "pick a better counter"?

Maybe it would be worse to tell metaknight mains to pack sand- but to me it seems like six in one hand or half a dozen in the other.

Correct, and I couldn't have said it better myself.

Which is why Riding the fence is so safe.

We as a community have subsisted on the statement, "You're not trying hard enough." Or to put it simply, "No jons." That phrase needs to be taken out of this debate. I've tried very hard, but no matter how hard we try, we aren't going to 'counter' MK, or go even with him.

So that's up to you to decide. Bann or no bann?

 

[Kamikaze*]

I'm in the Smash Back Room for Brawl. I'm trying to Convey this point.

MK mains aren't all tyrannical people that picked him cause he's amazing. If you would have played through Kirby's Super Star (Best game Ever) you would probably have mained him in the beginning too.

It's not fair that we have to eviscerate a character so easily without respect to the people that main him. The only way we can rectify this is if we have a **** good backing on Banning him.

Again.

My opinion on the matter?

I'm riding the fence, hard.

It really hurts MK's that don't have a secondary. Seriously, they will be forced to learn someone new, and it will be like making them start all over again, and may have to go through hella practice to start dominating again. Sure, brawl chars may be easy to pick up, use, and learn the obvious, but none of them are easy to train for high level play.

 

[ShadowLink84]

TL is worse against Marth than MK

Wario is worse against DDD and Marth

Luigi isn't exactly viable, and still gets ***** by Marth, GW and DDD when infinites are legal


Sorry!

GOD**** IT I WANTED THAT DRINK!
=(

Okay so thats two of my choices dead again.

So we got marth
Rob
luigi (infinites not legal)

I NEED TWO MORE!

 

[Snare]

People are going to vote to ban MK on the premise that they just can't beat him, regardless of the degree of the Smasher.

Little to none will vote for what's best for the community.

EX. If MK was banned right now, Hell, i'll admit it, it would make tournaments so much easier. I wouldn't be so anxious all the time, and my Characters will become more viable if that happens. Peach has answers to the majority of the cast save MK and maybe a few others. But MK the most. So it would just make me happy to use GaW/Peach in tournament.

But then, Morally, that's messed up. The people who spent time and effort into mK, and now we're just saying, 'yeah choose a new main kbai'. Not to mention the fact that perhaps it's the smarts of the player that are lacking, rather than just the character.

Get me?

mk really feels like the face of brawl. Planking, "playing to win", making counter-picking useless. melee really had a community that was honorable enough to accept that those things were there, but choice not to do them.

brawl really has the mentallity that winning is all that matters, and you can see how well that's effected the community. I don't know the solution for this but i don't believe banning mk is the only way we can solve that.

 

[Mecakoto]

So, let's make things not 10 times worse. A temp ban on MK, I'd say 6 months would be fine. All the pro MKs pick up new characters and develop their game farther. At the same time, without MK being there to absolutely **** certain characters, players using the lesser used characters make it farther into tournaments, and therefore develop that character more.

Of course, the main problem with a temp ban would be "What good is developing all of these characters for a short amount of time, when MK is just going to return in 6 months, and the matchup vs. MK is completely unchanged?"

I guess that's why a temp ban would be no good lol >_>

This is the best thing I have seen on this thread all day.

 

[BOB SAGET]

It really hurts MK's that don't have a secondary. Seriously, they will be forced to learn someone new, and it will be like making then start all over again, and may have to go through hella practice to start dominating again.

people like me wud be really screwed if MK gets banned because i just started training my secondary

 

[Ru-fi-o]

GOD**** IT I WANTED THAT DRINK!
=(

Okay so thats two of my choices dead again.

So we got marth
Rob
luigi (infinites not legal)

I NEED TWO MORE!

Rob's worst is ZSS, now.

Luigi's I'd say would be Snake.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Why the **** is it our fault because your backrooms and character boards are full of player swho are ****ing hot *** garbage?

GOLDEN!

 

[|RK|]

Correct, and I couldn't have said it better myself.

Which is why Riding the fence is so safe.

We as a community have subsisted on the statement, "You're not trying hard enough." Or to put it simply, "No jons." That phrase needs to be taken out of this debate. I've tried very hard, but no matter how hard we try, we aren't going to 'counter' MK, or go even with him.

So that's up to you to decide. Bann or no bann?

You really must read Give Me Liberty. It's a historical fiction about the Revolutionary War. Here's a quote: "But those who try to straddle the fence or remain neutral will be hated and suspected by both sides."

Come, now, decide. To be or not to be? That is the question.

 

[Anth0ny]

Why the **** is it our fault because your backrooms and character boards are full of player swho are ****ing hot *** garbage?

wut. I'm aware that most people posting on character boards are garbage, but how is that relevant?

 

[Max Ketchum]

And the japanese nationals were won by a Dhalsim player. A honda just got second @ yesterday's nationals.

And a Luigi won in MD/VA yesterday at a tournament full of Metaknights.

 

[Woozle]

Correct, and I couldn't have said it better myself.

Which is why Riding the fence is so safe.

We as a community have subsisted on the statement, "You're not trying hard enough." Or to put it simply, "No jons." That phrase needs to be taken out of this debate. I've tried very hard, but no matter how hard we try, we aren't going to 'counter' MK, or go even with him.

So that's up to you to decide. Bann or no bann?

Its a hard decision.

 

[jjvirus]

Rob's worst is ZSS, now.

The infinite she has on R.O.B. is a tad difficult to perform from what I hear from ZSS mains (that was when it was first released, idk if it changed or not). Most R.O.B.'s agree MK is still our worst matchup

 

[Snare]

Rob's worst is ZSS, now.

Luigi's I'd say would be Snake.

because of the infinite? does wario stay mid tier because every other character have a grab release combo?

the new infinite not only is hard to pull off (try it, its a pain), but rob also can easily space away from zss, one move never defines a match up, not even ics.

 

[|RK|]

The point is that people will continuously whine about characters they cannot beat. I don't think any character should be banned. Stop whining and get over it. You WILL isolate the professional players. Some of them are thinking of quitting, MK mains. All we'll be left with is a bunch of whiners not NEARLY as great as our current professionals. STOP. WHINING.

 

[OverLade]

Rob's worst is ZSS, now.

Luigi's I'd say would be Snake.

Marth and MK are Luigi's worst matchups. Weegee vs. Snake is even.

And a Luigi won in MD/VA yesterday at a tournament full of Metaknights.

Everyoen used MK for fun. The number of actual MK mains was like 4.

And Boss normally beats those MKs so that's not something unusual.

 

[Woozle]

mk really feels like the face of brawl. Planking, "playing to win", making counter-picking useless. melee really had a community that was honorable enough to accept that those things were there, but choice not to do them.

brawl really has the mentallity that winning is all that matters, and you can see how well that's effected the community. I don't know the solution for this but i don't believe banning mk is the only way we can solve that.

I didn't realize most of the top Brawl players didn't play melee competitively.

 

[Limeee]

don't think that i am some super elite who goes to tournies every month or more and plays constantly, but here are my two cents

It seems like more and more people are switching to MK, eventually people will be so mad after losing to MK repeatedly that they will switfch to him.

Eventually the tier list is gonna consist of characters match up's against metaknight XD

/rant

 

[BigLøu]

Marth and MK are Luigi's worst matchups. Weegee vs. Snake is even.

100 percent correct

 

[ShadowLink84]

Rob's worst is ZSS, now.

Luigi's I'd say would be Snake.

Snake? Why is that?
After all we did see Boss win against Ally (or was it someone else?)

As for ZSS, yeah I forgot about the whole stun exploit.
hmm

Well 2 out of 5.
That gets me half a drink at least.

25 cent fruit drink

 

[Gotham7]

I think that APEX and other large tournaments like it will have a huge deciding factor on MK's future.

 

[Snare]

I didn't realize most of the top Brawl players didn't play melee competitively.

...lol got me there

 

[ADHD]

There are 4-5 characters that can beat "top-level" mks if the player really knows what they're doing: Snake, wario, diddy, pikachu, and possibly falco. Its just even they are disadvantaged it most ways or another. Diddy can only win on FD, smashville, PS1, and battlefield against mk. Meaning if its say grand finals, he's at an INSTANT disadvantage. It's just my side of the story, I'm not sure if he should be banned entirely yet or not.

 

[Kamikaze*]

Weegee vs. Snake is even.

Say what? when was this?

 

[Max Ketchum]

G&W is far and away Luigi's worst matchup, not Snake. Take Luigi off the list. ROB and Marth are the only ones who benefit so far. Kirby is the next closest one, I'd say.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

The point is that people will continuously whine about characters they cannot beat. I don't think any character should be banned. Stop whining and get over it. You WILL isolate the professional players. Some of them are thinking of quitting, MK mains. All we'll be left with is a bunch of whiners not NEARLY as great as our current professionals. STOP. WHINING.

I think this is the truth.

 

[CRASHiC]

Was there ever this big of call for Shiek to be banned?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Was there ever this big of call for Shiek to be banned?

If not sheik than someone else prob.

 

[Inui]

...Snake vs Luigi can't possibly be even. You all missed when Ally threestocked Boss in the last game of their set? Boss just won the first game off of silly up b nonsense. After Ally caught on, it was over. Luigi slides too far when Snake attacks his shield, and Snake gets too many free hits on him when he's recovering.