Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[FrostytheSnowThug]

lol. Of course. Dojo and M2K both got the game and thought "Hmm... Let's pick up Meta Knight, because I know he's the best without anyone else agreeing with me, and that's the reason why I pick him up. Not because I like to play as this character. No, I want to show the world this character is the best."

lmao. Jason is actually the opposite. He waits til he finds something better and uses it. Marth's Ken? Same for Diem's MK. Diem beat m2k back when with MK, and then said he liked his playstyle and would be taking him. lolz

 

[ShadowLink84]

I am curious as to why people feel the need to use alt accounts. -_-;

 

[Dantarion]

I think that if you orginally looked at MK's abilities when the game first came out, he was an obvious contender for top tier.

Amazing recovery, fast moves, multiple jumps, sword, etc.

 

[Messiano]

What does that tell you?

That he happened to pick a char?

I mean when the game is first released if you aren't picking by just pure emotion meaning like me huge Mario fan growing up so hey Man in red! shoot fire!!!!!one!!! YA!

So i picked Mario. You mean to tell me know one in the world picked MK before they understood how he really plays?

To be 100% Honest if you are Anti-Ban just shh a little because as i continue reading it seems like you guys are having less and less reasoning and are putting up weak arguments and then people just jump on it even people who are PRO-Ban :|

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

Amazing recovery, fast moves, multiple jumps, sword, etc.

actually, he wasn't at all. In the very beginning he was in mid

 

[Yuna]

lmao. Jason is actually the opposite. He waits til he finds something better and uses it. Marth's Ken? Same for Diem's MK. Diem beat m2k back when with MK, and then said he liked his playstyle and would be taking him. lolz

Yes, yes, M2K/Jason Voorhees is a Tierwhore. Now can we move on to actually relevant matters? Why M2K plays MK shouldn't matter, really.

I am curious as to why people feel the need to use alt accounts. -_-;

Because multiple accounts saying the same inane stuff looks less inane... I guess.

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

Yes, yes, M2K/Jason Voorhees is a Tierwhore. Now can we move on to actually relevant matters? Why M2K plays MK shouldn't matter, really.


Because multiple accounts saying the same inane stuff looks less inane... I guess.

It does matter. Because people said he saw potential in him. that's false. He was SHOWN.

 

[Messiano]

I think that if you orginally looked at MK's abilities when the game first came out, he was an obvious contender for top tier.

Amazing recovery, fast moves, multiple jumps, sword, etc.

Sounds like Pit...And a projectile too-boot!

I remember going DeVry in Jersey to play and when i picked pit nothing but hate like this topic
xD

Also, If i were to play Mario and over time he scaled and got crazy like this where he became over powered and the topic of him being banned came up I'd stop playing him i mean it just makes me feel dirty.

Like in Melee I play Marth cause i cant get used to anyone else and it like makes me feel like a skank :|

 

[Yuna]

It does matter. Because people said he saw potential in him. that's false. He was SHOWN.

The point is:
Does answer to the question whether or not Jason switched over to Meta Knight due to himself seeing potential in MK or being shown the potential really matter when it comes to whether or not MK should be banned?

How does this really prove whether or not MK needs to be banned? Jason saw potential in MK? Whoopity-XBOX:ing-doo!

 

[|RK|]

Yes, yes, M2K/Jason Voorhees is a Tierwhore. Now can we move on to actually relevant matters? Why M2K plays MK shouldn't matter, really.

But before you move on, allow me to note that M2K picked MK because he's "fast and fun and feels like melee".

 

[Praxis]

Weird. Doesn't Metaknight have like...50:50's with Diddy, Wario, and Snake?

No.

Diddy's not even if the MK knows the matchup. Believe me, I've housed with Nanerz and discussed this with a lot of Diddy's. M2K didn't know the matchup well the first time he fought NinjaLink.

Snake isn't even, this has effectively been proven. Even Ally tells me MK's favor.

Wario's debatable, but only one Wario has had any form of success. And we have to assume planking banned, since Wario can't deal with planking.


Further, instead of focusing on Sirlin's statements on Akuma, I'd suggest looking up the chapter about O. Sagat. OR the relatively new fiasco where the REBALANCED Akuma was banned from Evo in Super Street Fighter II HD Remix, because he had the advantage on all but one of the cast and was simply too dominating to the metagame much like Metaknight, and Sirlin supported this.

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

The point is:
Does answer to the question whether or not Jason switched over to Meta Knight due to himself seeing potential in MK or being shown the potential really matter when it comes to whether or not MK should be banned?

How does this really prove whether or not MK needs to be banned? Jason saw potential in MK? Whoopity-XBOX:ing-doo!

You do understand I'm answering people and on your side. God, man, you just want people to hate you.

No.

Diddy's not even if the MK knows the matchup. Believe me, I've housed with Nanerz and discussed this with a lot of Diddy's. M2K didn't know the matchup well the first time he fought NinjaLink.

Snake isn't even, this has effectively been proven. Even Ally tells me MK's favor.

Wario's debatable, but only one Wario has had any form of success. And we have to assume planking banned, since Wario can't deal with planking.

Uh, Nanerz hasn't had any REAL tourney success, so he's not viable.

And Snake is 50:50 on most levels. Otherwise it's 55:45 meta. Just because Ally GOT RAPPPPPEEEED by m2k doesn't prove anything. M2k is a better player, period.

And one wario? Futile, Fiction, DMG, Afro, Spam, Malcolm... Good ****.

And of course planking is banned you idiot. It's UNBEATABLE.

Which is why MK isn't banned.

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

Further, instead of focusing on Sirlin's statements on Akuma, I'd suggest looking up the chapter about O. Sagat. OR the relatively new fiasco where the REBALANCED Akuma was banned from Evo in Super Street Fighter II HD Remix, because he had the advantage on all but one of the cast and was simply too dominating to the metagame much like Metaknight, and Sirlin supported this.

oSagat is japan banned. In america, we throw ****ing fireballs.

 

[Minwu]

It does matter. Because people said he saw potential in him. that's false. He was SHOWN.

That's still seeing it. Just like many other non-notable people. Before seeing the first public SBR tier list, which must be garbage if the SBR is garbage.

 

[bobson]

And of course planking is banned you idiot.

What tournaments are banning planking?

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

That's still seeing it. Just like many other non-notable people. Before seeing the first public SBR tier list, which must be garbage if the SBR is garbage.

It was complete garbage. NJ laughed at it... Well, even still.

What tournaments are banning planking?

Every local/regional in AN, the strongest region, and every major after Fast1.

 

[Praxis]

oSagat is japan banned. In america, we throw ****ing fireballs.

Indeed, but Sirlin established O. Sagat as a kind of base level of reasonable banning, and MK is clearly worse.

And Snake is 50:50 on most levels. Otherwise it's 55:45 meta. Just because Ally GOT RAPPPPPEEEED by m2k doesn't prove anything. M2k is a better player, period.

The top MK's consistently beat the top Snakes. Did you WATCH the match? MK's offstage game completely demolishes Snake, and there's little he can do. He can predict grenade pulls and punish with grabs, space Snake's ftilt with his dtilt, fastfall uairs into Snake's airdodges.

It's NOT an even matchup. Most MK's are doing it wrong.

Also, planking is not universally banned. It's kind of silly that we need to institute ledge grab rules and ban tactics (Infinite Dimensional Cape) just to keep MK in the game, no?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You guys are all stupid. You advocate the ban of a character you can't beat with your pathetic main? NOBODY CARES! IF YOU PLAY SOMEBODY LIKE SAMUS OR DK YOU DON'T NEED TO WONDER WHY YOU CAN'T WIN. If you're competitive (and we are a competitive community) you either play a character, who can actually win or otherwise you just stfu. The only other option is to become so good that the character doesn't matter (like Azen) but it'll never happen to you b/c you're just whining and *****ing all the time.

WE ARE A COMPETITIVE COMMUNITY. Unless you play a character, that's acually good at the game you should just shut your mouth. If you use a garbage character like PT you won't win anyways. So what if MK makes 90% of the cast unviable (which isn't even remotely true) when only 4 or 5 characters are viable in the first place (which is already a good rate...Tekken games usually have like 3 at best)? Nobody gives a fart about whether MK makes R.O.B unviable or not because R.O.B sucks.

If you want to win you play Meta, Snake, Wario or Diddy Kong. If you're really good you can do it with D3, Kirby, Lucario, G&W, Marth and Falco too. The only reason why these characters don't do as well as MK is because you stick to your stupid mains who suck and get ***** by the top tiers. In Melee everybody played Spacies, Marth and Sheik because those were the best characters. In Brawl you have people who use chars like Fox and Ness in tourney and expect to win. FORGET THAT. Before you whine about a good character use a good character yourself. Goddamit.

ALL YOU GUYS WHO PLAY ZAMUS, LINK OR WHATEVER: NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR MAIN CHARACTER. PLAY A GOOD CHARACTER OR ELSE GTFO.

If you were actually competitive and focused on playing the game TO WIN rather than cry like little babies we'd never have this issue. Why does Atomsk never complain about MK? BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE YOUR SCRUB MINDSET. He goes to tourneys, plays the game AND ***** MKS WITH KING DEDEDE because he learns how to deal with it. HE COULDN'T DO THAT CONSISTENTLY IF MK WAS BROKEN. Anther beats MKs with ****ing Pikachu. LeePuff with G&W, Meep with the ICs, ADHD with Diddy, Ally with Snake, AZEN WITH ***ING LUCARIO and BOSS WITH ***ING LUIGI.

So basically you pansies dicuss BS like MK having no bad/even match-up WHEN YOU ALL CLEARLY SUCK AT THE GAME AND SHOLDN'T EVEN TALK ABOUT MATCH-UPS YOU HAVE NO ****ING CLUE ABOUT. Meanwhile Boss ***** MKs WITH LUIGI. Now don't ever say MK should be banned again.

 

[Yuna]

Further, instead of focusing on Sirlin's statements on Akuma, I'd suggest looking up the chapter about O. Sagat. OR the relatively new fiasco where the REBALANCED Akuma was banned from Evo in Super Street Fighter II HD Remix, because he had the advantage on all but one of the cast and was simply too dominating to the metagame much like Metaknight, and Sirlin supported this.

Let us note that at the same EVO, Brawl was played with items on and a rule which stated "If the TOs feels a player if camping 'too much' at any time, that player is subject to disqualification".

So, yah, let's not go by what EVO does, shall we? I can't see Sirlin supporting such a ban unless the rebalanced Akuma just destroyed everyone (MK doesn't).

You do understand I'm answering people and on your side. God, man, you just want people to hate you.

I... asked you a perfectly valid question in a completely amicable and not-at-all hostile manner. Why should this make you hate me or like me any less?

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

Indeed, but Sirlin established O. Sagat as a kind of base level of reasonable banning, and MK is clearly worse.



The top MK's consistently beat the top Snakes. Did you WATCH the match? MK's offstage game completely demolishes Snake, and there's little he can do. He can predict grenade pulls and punish with grabs, space Snake's ftilt with his dtilt, fastfall uairs into Snake's airdodges.

It's NOT an even matchup. Most MK's are doing it wrong.

Also, planking is not universally banned. It's kind of silly that we need to institute ledge grab rules and ban tactics (Infinite Dimensional Cape) just to keep MK in the game, no?

If you think oSagat is worse than MK, Prax, you need to start going to real tournaments for things besides smash. And stay out of the sun for awhile.

It's kind of silly we needed to ban freezing glitches and wobbling too. No johns. All communities ban glitches.

And I guarantee I could beat that beat with a planking Marth, too

 

[ShadowLink84]

oSagat is japan banned. In america, we throw ****ing fireballs.

No he is soft banned. big difference.
soft ban means you can still use him, its just very very, very frowned upon in doing so.

This would not work i the U.S.
We have too many cultures, too many people, so its impossible for a softban to work.

*looks at gheb's post*

Are you...trolling or something?
You should know that people advocating for a ban are not all maining characters who get ***** by MK right?

So... what was the need for that post?

If you think oSagat is worse than MK, Prax, you need to start going to real tournaments for things besides smash. And stay out of the sun for awhile.

You do know that by worse, he meant O.Sagat was a much better character than MK.
Not that MK is a much better character than O.Sagat.

Either way you interpret it your post was completely unneeded.

It's kind of silly we needed to ban freezing glitches and wobbling too. No johns. All communities ban glitches.

Wobbling was not banned nationally. So you cannot say its banned.
Wobbling is still legal in many of the tournaments.
Communities only ban glitches that show themselves to be harmful to the metagame.

mewtwo's soul glitch for example.
or exploits like Ganondorfs ledge stall in melee

And I guarantee I could beat that beat with a planking Marth, too

Stop trolling.

 

[Praxis]

Let us note that at the same EVO, Brawl was played with items on and a rule which stated "If the TOs feels a player if camping 'too much' at any time, that player is subject to disqualification".

So, yah, let's not go by what EVO does, shall we? I can't see Sirlin supporting such a ban unless the rebalanced Akuma just destroyed everyone (MK doesn't).

Evo and Smash Bros is a bad combination, I agree they had ridiculous ruleset. The Akuma ban seems to be supported by the community.

If you think oSagat is worse than MK, Prax, you need to start going to real tournaments for things besides smash. And stay out of the sun for awhile.

I said MK is worse than O. Sagat, not the other way around.

O. Sagat isn't even the best character (at least clearly) in Street Fighter II Turbo.

No he is soft banned. big difference.
soft ban means you can still use him, its just very very, very frowned upon in doing so.

This would not work i the U.S.
We have too many cultures, too many people, so its impossible for a softban to work.

It's the same thing really- Japan doesn't do hardbans, even Akuma is softbanned.

 

[Minwu]

Planking is still an issue because of the non enforcability. No one's using the ledge grab rule in the US. So it's something to be considered in matchups.

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

No he is soft banned. big difference.
soft ban means you can still use him, its just very very, very frowned upon in doing so.

This would not work i the U.S.
We have too many cultures, too many people, so its impossible for a softban to work.

*looks at gheb's post*

Are you...trolling or something?
You should know that people advocating for a ban are not all maining characters who get ***** by MK right?

So... what was the need for that post?

We don't soft ban in america, because we like winning.

Again: If anyone wants to do a livestream debate, 50$ mm. 2v2. must have paypal.

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

Evo and Smash Bros is a bad combination, I agree they had ridiculous ruleset. The Akuma ban seems to be supported by the community.


I said MK is worse than O. Sagat, not the other way around.

O. Sagat isn't even the best character (at least clearly) in Street Fighter II Turbo.




It's the same thing really- Japan doesn't do hardbans, even Akuma is softbanned.

Woops, I made a mistake. oSagat>mk. EASILY.

Planking is still an issue because of the non enforcability. No one's using the ledge grab rule in the US. So it's something to be considered in matchups.

It is enforceable. We do it all the ****ing time.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You guys are all stupid. You advocate the ban of a character you can't beat with your pathetic main? NOBODY CARES! IF YOU PLAY SOMEBODY LIKE SAMUS OR DK YOU DON'T NEED TO WONDER WHY YOU CAN'T WIN. If you're competitive (and we are a competitive community) you either play a character, who can actually win or otherwise you just stfu. The only other option is to become so good that the character doesn't matter (like Azen) but it'll never happen to you b/c you're just whining and *****ing all the time.

WE ARE A COMPETITIVE COMMUNITY. Unless you play a character, that's acually good at the game you should just shut your mouth. If you use a garbage character like PT you won't win anyways. So what if MK makes 90% of the cast unviable (which isn't even remotely true) when only 4 or 5 characters are viable in the first place (which is already a good rate...Tekken games usually have like 3 at best)? Nobody gives a fart about whether MK makes R.O.B unviable or not because R.O.B sucks.

If you want to win you play Meta, Snake, Wario or Diddy Kong. If you're really good you can do it with D3, Kirby, Lucario, G&W, Marth and Falco too. The only reason why these characters don't do as well as MK is because you stick to your stupid mains who suck and get ***** by the top tiers. In Melee everybody played Spacies, Marth and Sheik because those were the best characters. In Brawl you have people who use chars like Fox and Ness in tourney and expect to win. FORGET THAT. Before you whine about a good character use a good character yourself. Goddamit.

ALL YOU GUYS WHO PLAY ZAMUS, LINK OR WHATEVER: NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR MAIN CHARACTER. PLAY A GOOD CHARACTER OR ELSE GTFO.

If you were actually competitive and focused on playing the game TO WIN rather than cry like little babies we'd never have this issue. Why does Atomsk never complain about MK? BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE YOUR SCRUB MINDSET. He goes to tourneys, plays the game AND ***** MKS WITH KING DEDEDE because he learns how to deal with it. HE COULDN'T DO THAT CONSISTENTLY IF MK WAS BROKEN. Anther beats MKs with ****ing Pikachu. LeePuff with G&W, Meep with the ICs, ADHD with Diddy, Ally with Snake, AZEN WITH ***ING LUCARIO and BOSS WITH ***ING LUIGI.

So basically you pansies dicuss BS like MK having no bad/even match-up WHEN YOU ALL CLEARLY SUCK AT THE GAME AND SHOLDN'T EVEN TALK ABOUT MATCH-UPS YOU HAVE NO ****ING CLUE ABOUT. Meanwhile Boss ***** MKs WITH LUIGI. Now don't ever say MK should be banned again.

Let me add on to this. Azen almost Beat M2K at the ECRC finals in a tournament match in grand finals..................................with Peach That match was so close and could have gone ether way. I believe it was live stream.

So after what Azen did.........Metaknight does not need to go anywhere if he nearly pulled it off with a character that people **** on alot. Tiers dont control you. You control tiers. Nuff said.

Azen just killed this whole debate about Meta being banned.

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

Azen also almost beat m2k with Fox the first day he played him

 

[Ballistics]

This poll should be:
1. For Ban
2. Against Ban
3. Compromise Ban (Limited use in a set)

 

[Yuna]

Indeed, but Sirlin established O. Sagat as a kind of base level of reasonable banning, and MK is clearly worse.

Lies, hyperbole and exaggeration.

This is what Sirlin has to say on the subject:
But this is not the case. There seems to be a tacit agreement amongst top players in Japan—a soft ban—on playing Old Sagat. The reason is that many believe the game to have much more variety without Old Sagat.
Is this ban warranted then? To be honest, I am not totally convinced that it is, but it is just barely in the ballpark of reasonableness since there is a decade of data on which to base the claim.



In other words:
* Old Sagat is only soft-banned in Japan (not in the U.S. or Europe)
* Sirlin isn't totally convinced the ban is warranted but believes it to be beraly in the ballpark of reasonableness since there is a decade of data supporting a soft-ban.

The top MK's consistently beat the top Snakes. Did you WATCH the match? MK's offstage game completely demolishes Snake

It doesn't demolish Snake. It's just really good. Also, you have to get Snake off-stage to begin with.

and there's little he can do. He can predict grenade pulls and punish with grabs

Yeah, if Snake is pulling them with MK really close by (i.e., Snake is an idiot).

space Snake's ftilt with his dtilt

You are assuming that MK will always perfectly space the D-tilt while Snake will always try to F-tilt MK while MK is out of range and able to D-tilt him. This is a ridiculous assumption.

fastfall uairs into Snake's airdodges.

Are you saying anyone with a good Uair >>>>> Snake?

It's NOT an even matchup. Most MK's are doing it wrong.

Also, planking is not universally banned. It's kind of silly that we need to institute ledge grab rules and ban tactics (Infinite Dimensional Cape) just to keep MK in the game, no?

We have to ban techniques which are overpowered. It's the reason why stall tactics are banned. The I.D.C. would've been banned even if it had been discovered for Captain Falcon or somesuch character alone.

I can see planking being banned. But I could've seen it be banned for any character, not just MK.

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

This poll should be:
1. For Ban
2. Against Ban
3. Compromise Ban (Limited use in a set)

Um, you're from TN. You have no say in this. Your state has 0 notable players. It takes more than knowledge.

 

[Nic64]

3. Compromise Ban (Limited use in a set)

disgusting.

I'm cool with him being banned or not banned but wishy washy solutions like this are just failure IMO, either he's too good and has to go or he isn't, a compromise doesn't really help either side and no one will like it.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Azen also almost beat m2k with Fox the first day he played him

I think after he played Peach, he went Fox. And I believe that match was close as well, I cant really remember. But I think it was.

 

[ShadowLink84]

We don't soft ban in america, because we like winning.

We do not like banning because it is the last thing that we should do.
banning causes great change and it also sets the status quo for what can or cannot be banned.
We are just too large and too culturally different to make such things such as soft banning.

Again: If anyone wants to do a livestream debate, 50$ mm. 2v2. must have paypal.

Paypal in person.
Wooooooow

It's the same thing really- Japan doesn't do hardbans, even Akuma is softbanned.

nooo its a big difference.
if I went down to Japan and ***** the **** out of everyone using Akuma and O. Sagat.
I would not be disqualified.

I guarantee you though I probably would not be allowed to go to a tournament afterwards.
Probably would not win the money either.
Its an honor thing.

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

Seriously, I guarantee I could beat any non-top 20 pro with 5 characters if planking were allowed.

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

Paypal in person.
Wooooooow.

Livestream. As in me and you on skype, with a chat going on. Not in person, you twit.

 

[Yuna]

Um, you're from TN. You have no say in this. Your state has 0 notable players. It takes more than knowledge.

Tone down the vitriol. Or at least hide it behind fancy words, like I do.

Also, wasn't Texas the state that banned D3 chaingrabs (even the running ones)?

 

[ShadowLink84]

Livestream. As in me and you on skype, with a chat going on. Not in person, you twit.

See I had a similar question for someone else and got a different reply. Hence why I was rather puzzled.

Considering you mentioned wobbling being banned and planking being banned know you are probably in the AN region.

Soooo, mm in person?

Edit; Hmm uess not.

Um, you're from TN. You have no say in this. Your state has 0 notable players. It takes more than knowledge.

Correct me if I am wrong.
is this not argumentum ad hominem?

Last I saw, a statement can still be true regardless of the source it comes from.

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

Tone down the vitriol. Or at least hide it behind fancy words, like I do.

Also, wasn't Texas the state that banned D3 chaingrabs (even the running ones)?

I don't give a **** what texas does. They had real rules for their majors and that's all that matters

 

[Kamikaze*]

I doubt the SBR will consider this poll at all, seeing as the last 2 also had yes in the lead by quite a bit, and MK is still here.

They're probably waiting for some big-*** difference like 1760 to 500.

 

[FrostytheSnowThug]

See I had a similar question for someone else and got a different reply. Hence why I was rather puzzled.

Considering you mentioned wobbling being banned and planking being banned know you are probably in the AN region.

Soooo, mm in person?

Sure. Then we can play the game for money. And melee. And SF4. And anything else.

Hopscotch? Maybe a game of Poser? Tic-tac-toe.

Then I'll show you my johnson is bigger. Whatever you want, muffin.

Going to Apex?