Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[pure_awesome]

Yeah, I used to be against the ban, but after he started stealing most of the top 10 spots of pretty much every major tournament....

Well, that there's a red flag to me. I say we ban him on trial. If it works out keep it, if it doesn't, then bring him back. I just can't help but feel like a lot of the "Anti-ban" voters just want to keep winning money with a broken character. =/

*shrug*

We all know it's going to work. MK-less Brawl will have more variety and be generally better. We don't need a trial to determine that.

Hell, I'm anti-ban and even I want MK banned. I just don't think he needs to be.

I also play Falco, so hey .

 

[Darxmarth23]

*shrug*

We all know it's going to work. MK-less Brawl will have more variety and be generally better. We don't need a trial to determine that.

Hell, I'm anti-ban and even I want MK banned. I just don't think he needs to be.

I also play Falco, so hey .

I'm sendin' you an invite.

 

[Praxis]

*shrug*

We all know it's going to work. MK-less Brawl will have more variety and be generally better. We don't need a trial to determine that.

Hell, I'm anti-ban and even I want MK banned. I just don't think he needs to be.

I also play Falco, so hey .

As Edrees stated; in the case of a game designed to be anticompetitive, we as a community have already taken it upon ourselves to ban things we feel make it a better competitive game.

Despite all the other reasons for arguing MK being banned; the fact that the game would be better without him should be reason enough, in our unique situation.

 

[Darxmarth23]

As Edrees stated; in the case of a game designed to be anticompetitive, we as a community have already taken it upon ourselves to ban things we feel make it a better competitive game.

Despite all the other reasons for arguing MK being banned; the fact that the game would be better without him should be reason enough, in our unique situation.

I don't think that the SBR is looking for that when they are thinking of a reason to ban Mk.

But its true that Mk will benefit the community as a whole.

 

[Praxis]

BTW, Darxmarth23...
http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=385

My group's bigger.

And I'll leave it to Edrees to make that argument in the SBR.

 

[Darxmarth23]

BTW, Darxmarth23...
http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=385

My group's bigger.

And I'll leave it to Edrees to make that argument in the SBR.

We take Initiative. Lol. Get your group to come to my group. We do stuffz.

I wish Edrees good luck.

 

[∫unk]

I agree with what praxis is saying.

Honestly.... most of you aren't at a level or aren't familiar with high-level brawl play to be talking about mk's ban-worthiness even some people in the SBR aren't qualified

The few videos on youtube are like 5% of what's really happening at top levels

the best legitimate reason behind banning mk is that he destroys the cp system, which is true and a good reason to ban a character when your fighter revolves around a counterpick system. he's beatable as are all 60:40's but as you get closer to the highest levels of play the 60:40 actually comes into effect (as in, you play near perfectly and you still lose).

The ONLY characters that legitimately go close to even against top mk's are campy warios and campy falcos. Tournament results back this up. For people like fiction that say just learn the matchup, you think other top players of their character haven't studied and practiced the **** out of this matchup? it lets you beat ALMOST all mk's, but that's not good enough.

Every other character has a worse than 40-60 record across the board and among top players (I haven't actually looked up the numbers but I'm willing to bet money), suggesting that mk is easier to play consistently at a high level or that some of these 60-40 matchups are actually worse (most likely a combination but more heavily on the former).

Basically what i'm saying is... there is really no harm in a temporary ban. Top players will develop other characters, which other good players will copy. Or they'll quit, which is sad but really smash isn't going to slow down cause of that. If the game becomes more campy (because of the elimination of one of the most offensive character in the game), or someone ends up dominating, then go back to having mk.

There needs to be a big tournament with mk banned. No one's speculations are more valid than another until they have results to back them up. So far I think hobo is the biggest tournament to have mk banned, and after going to texas, i can tell you most of them don't even play mk anyway. A large EC or WC tourney where everyone has a mk as a secondary would shed more light on the consequences of banning mk.

Edit: there's a few flaws in my statements but i'd like to believe my main points are strong and valid.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Temporary ban is still the best solution to finishing the debate. Does anyone have any GOOD reasons why it won't work?

I think somone mentioned that next tourney at HOBO they were banning MK, or some large tourney was going to do that.

 

[Xyro77]

I should rephrase that.

The tourney itself didn't have some of the other top players ( Like Ally, and a few others) who don't main Mk.

With Genisis we'll have solid ground. Hopefully.

incorrect again.

World Hobo had

Co18( top 4 ddd)
Santi( top 3 tl)
Xro( THE best samus)
Espy(top 4 sonic)
Mr. 3000( top 5 sonic)
Royr( THE best or 2nd best marth)
K prime( top 4 pikachu)
Ultimate Razer(best USA snake)
Sethlon(top 5 sheik)
Zeton(top 4 fox)
Gnes(top 5 diddy)
Lain(midwest beast top 5 ddd)
DMG(top 5 wario)


There was more but i dont have the results in front of me right now. SO yea We had representation. Dont make up ****.
PS: as much as i AGREE genesis will be the final "say so" world hobo should not be ignored


TO EVERYBODY ELSE: My next HOBO will have metaknight banned. PLEASE pay attention to the results

 

[Kamikaze*]

I agree with what praxis is saying.

Honestly.... most of you aren't at a level or aren't familiar with high-level brawl play to be talking about mk's ban-worthiness even some people in the SBR aren't qualified

The few videos on youtube are like 5% of what's really happening at top levels

the best legitimate reason behind banning mk is that he destroys the cp system, which is true and a good reason to ban a character when your fighter revolves around a counterpick system. he's beatable as are all 60:40's but as you get closer to the highest levels of play the 60:40 actually comes into effect (as in, you play near perfectly and you still lose).

The ONLY characters that legitimately go close to even against top mk's are campy warios and campy falcos. Tournament results back this up. For people like fiction that say just learn the matchup, you think other top players of their character haven't studied and practiced the **** out of this matchup? it lets you beat ALMOST all mk's, but that's not good enough.

Every other character has a worse than 40-60 record across the board and among top players (I haven't actually looked up the numbers but I'm willing to bet money), suggesting that mk is easier to play consistently at a high level or that some of these 60-40 matchups are actually worse (most likely a combination but more heavily on the former).

Basically what i'm saying is... there is really no harm in a temporary ban. Top players will develop other characters, which other good players will copy. Or they'll quit, which is sad but really smash isn't going to slow down cause of that. If the game becomes more campy (because of the elimination of one of the most offensive character in the game), or someone ends up dominating, then go back to having mk.

There needs to be a big tournament with mk banned. No one's speculations are more valid than another until they have results to back them up. So far I think hobo is the biggest tournament to have mk banned, and after going to texas, i can tell you most of them don't even play mk anyway. A large EC or WC tourney where everyone has a mk as a secondary would shed more light on the consequences of banning mk.

Edit: there's a few flaws in my statements but i'd like to believe my main points are strong and valid.

You say that people have to practice the **** out of the MK match-up right? Well what about the people that have been practicing the **** out of meta? Believe it or not, people have been using him long before the tier list came out. Banning Metaknight is like throwing a ****load of practice away for these people.

 

[∫unk]

You say that people have to practice the **** out of the MK match-up right? Well what about the people that have been practicing the **** out of meta? Believe it or not, people have been using him long before the tier list came out. Banning Metaknight is like throwing a ****load of practice away for these people.

# of people that use characters that are getting *****/losing money to metaknight users > # of metaknight users

everyone can't be happy

 

[Kamikaze*]

# of people that use characters that are getting *****/losing money to metaknight users > # of metaknight users

everyone can't be happy

Well, if that's how you feel, you can expect a ****load people to quit. There are people who don't even like the game and only play for money

 

[Mew2King]

Xyro - THE BEST 3 MKs in the world were at WHOBO.

Don't even ACT like the other characters were represented fairly when THE very best 3 MKs were there, especially when MK is already the best character, he is obviously going to ****.

the most dominant character used by great players who practiced a ton with them where the best 3 in the world were there will OBVIOUSLY make results all MKs.

And no offense to that Razor guy but if he's the 2nd best snake after ally that's sad cuz he got 3 stocked by santis jiggs and i heard other people including me in a friendly. You're biased. Besides MAYBE santis toon link (Who was playing bad taht tourney) and MAYBE lees Lucario (IMO azens prime was better, also I think Neo DEFINITELY has the best marth) I would argue that NO other character was represented to the best of their ability there except like low tiers and **** (and no mr 3000 is nowhere near as good as many of the EC sonics I didn't play espy) that doesn't matter

 

[SkylerOcon]

You say that people have to practice the **** out of the MK match-up right? Well what about the people that have been practicing the **** out of meta? Believe it or not, people have been using him long before the tier list came out. Banning Metaknight is like throwing a ****load of practice away for these people.

Tough. A good number of these people have switched to MK solely because he's the best in the game and has only one match-up that might be disadvantageous. Smash isn't Street Fighter and shouldn't be held to the same rules. It's a completely different game, and in this game, a character like Meta-Knight does not belong.

The warning signs showed up a while ago. It was stupid of the SBR to not take notice of this and either ban/soft-ban MK then. Despite what SamuraiPanda says, the SBR has MASSIVE amounts of influence on the smash community, as most TOs will not un-ban what the SBR has banned (at least for Brawl -- I know very little about Melee).

Please stop trying to argue that MK isn't broken enough because the fact in the matter is is that he is broken and breaks the counterpick system.

 

[Xyro77]

Xyro - THE BEST 3 MKs in the world were at WHOBO.

Don't even ACT like the other characters were represented fairly when THE very best 3 MKs were there, especially when MK is already the best character, he is obviously going to ****.

the most dominant character used by great players who practiced a ton with them where the best 3 in the world were there will OBVIOUSLY make results all MKs.

And no offense to that Razor guy but if he's the 2nd best snake after ally that's sad cuz he got 3 stocked by santis jiggs and i heard other people including me in a friendly. You're biased. Besides MAYBE santis toon link (Who was playing bad taht tourney) and MAYBE lees Lucario (IMO azens prime was better, also I think Neo DEFINITELY has the best marth) I would argue that NO other character was represented to the best of their ability there except like low tiers and **** (and no mr 3000 is nowhere near as good as many of the EC sonics I didn't play espy) that doesn't matter

They may not have been represent BY YOUR standards but they were represent VERY VERY VERY well in REALITY.

I gave names of VERY RESPECTED players who are at top 5 status in thier characters ability. Just cause YOU want top 2 or top 1 doesnt mean im incorrect in what i said.

My results are fine. Im sorry if this hurt your fight to keep metaknight but in reality but Cot4 and hobo 11 already started fire and world hobo is adding on to it. You can discredit my tourney all you want but what i said is correct and still stands


PS: i didnt even add Lee martins Lucario(top 4). THANKS! it makes the list even more in favor of the ban meta side. but to be fair lee did have to go metaknight to beat CO18.....OPPS, i guess that adds to the pro-ban side again. I APOLOGIZE!

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Well, if that's how you feel, you can expect a ****load people to quit. There are people who don't even like the game and only play for money

Yeah, that runis the community, removing the people who only play for money.

Your statement just re-affirmed that lots of people only play brawl, and by extention MK, becuase they want money. Not because they care about the health of the game. You said it yourself.

 

[Darxmarth23]

incorrect again.

World Hobo had

Co18( top 4 ddd)
Santi( top 3 tl)
Xro( THE best samus)
Espy(top 4 sonic)
Mr. 3000( top 5 sonic)
Royr( THE best or 2nd best marth)
K prime( top 4 pikachu)
Ultimate Razer(best USA snake)
Sethlon(top 5 sheik)
Zeton(top 4 fox)
Gnes(top 5 diddy)
Lain(midwest beast top 5 ddd)
DMG(top 5 wario)


There was more but i dont have the results in front of me right now. SO yea We had representation. Dont make up ****.
PS: as much as i AGREE genesis will be the final "say so" world hobo should not be ignored


TO EVERYBODY ELSE: My next HOBO will have metaknight banned. PLEASE pay attention to the results

I said "some." Lol. And even still, Mks ***** the tourney through and through.

You say that people have to practice the **** out of the MK match-up right? Well what about the people that have been practicing the **** out of meta? Believe it or not, people have been using him long before the tier list came out. Banning Metaknight is like throwing a ****load of practice away for these people.

They can go cry then.

 

[Eddie G]

Here is what I don't understand:

Why don't people/TO's that are pro-ban just host tournaments that have MK banned? If people are truly for banning MK then they will show up to these tournaments, and by the look of this poll that means there should be decent attendance regardless of if the current MK mains would show up due to having to play as another character. Why are we all waiting on some sort of "grand decision"? Each side just get your butts out there and host tournaments with or without MK.

The only possible problem that I see would be travel issues for certain people if a tournament of their preference were held at a really far distance, as opposed to a tournament opposite of their preference that may be closer.

 

[fissionprime]

It's obvious with mk's domination at WHOBO that he is miles ahead of all the other characters. He's only getting further ahead, that's how good he is.

 

[Jigglymaster]

NJ's never going to ban MK regardless of what happens here.

Personally I want the ban but in NJ all the TO's are anti-ban and if you host a tournament w/o MK nobodies going to come to it. Thats why I'm not going to ban MK at my tournament cause then they'd all hate me.

 

[Palpi]

Lol xyro. Try playing an amazing d3 with lucario.

 

[Praxis]

Why don't people/TO's that are pro-ban just host tournaments that have MK banned? If people are truly for banning MK then they will show up to these tournaments, and by the look of this poll that means there should be decent attendance regardless of if the current MK mains would show up due to having to play as another character. Why are we all waiting on some sort of "grand decision"? Each side just get your butts out there and host tournaments with or without MK.

Because those who play at MK-banned tournaments will be at a significant disadvantage at regional/national tournaments that aren't following the same metagame.

 

[Sinatra']

NO!!! he shouldn't be banned! He's like the funnest character to brawl ever!!! I really don't like using him, but to me it's just so **** fun trying to beat him (mostly dodging/evading until you find an opening) and I have found that Ness (which happens to be one of my favorite characters to brawl with) does fairly well against him. So for psychos trying to ban anything its just a **** game! get over it.

 

[Mew2King]

xyro you are stupid and annoying

i wouldnt be surprised if you were cousins with lee harris

and no when the top 3 of the best character in the game is there and you are surprised they ***** then you're dumb

not only is he the best character but he was represented the best of all chars by far at this particular tournament

 

[Vyse]

Play nice Mew2King
Flames are a no-no.

On topic:
This'll all boil down to whether we can bring ourselves to ban a non-boss character in a fighting game.
I like the idea of a non-MK metagame, but I do not support the ban.

Man up peeps.

 

[Darxmarth23]

xyro you are stupid and annoying

i wouldnt be surprised if you were cousins with lee harris

and no when the top 3 of the best character in the game is there and you are surprised they ***** then you're dumb

not only is he the best character but he was represented the best of all chars by far at this particular tournament

Thus making him go even further, and a bigger chance of winning.

 

[Samuelson]

xyro you are stupid and annoying

****, get *****.

 

[Commander_Beef]

The topic is a little bit on the 50-50 side because his priority and attacks are all well-known and are trying to be countered and stuff, yet he can plank the easiest and he has the most broken special attacks in the game (besides sideB). I'm on the neutral side =(.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Xyro - THE BEST 3 MKs in the world were at WHOBO.

Don't even ACT like the other characters were represented fairly when THE very best 3 MKs were there, especially when MK is already the best character, he is obviously going to ****.

the most dominant character used by great players who practiced a ton with them where the best 3 in the world were there will OBVIOUSLY make results all MKs.

And no offense to that Razor guy but if he's the 2nd best snake after ally that's sad cuz he got 3 stocked by santis jiggs and i heard other people including me in a friendly. You're biased. Besides MAYBE santis toon link (Who was playing bad taht tourney) and MAYBE lees Lucario (IMO azens prime was better, also I think Neo DEFINITELY has the best marth) I would argue that NO other character was represented to the best of their ability there except like low tiers and **** (and no mr 3000 is nowhere near as good as many of the EC sonics I didn't play espy) that doesn't matter

You do realize all of that was a JOKE?! Everything about me getting 3 stocked and losing to random people were jokes. Friday was a joke. I really hope you don't judge me off that.

 

[OFY]

NJ's never going to ban MK regardless of what happens here.

Personally I want the ban but in NJ all the TO's are anti-ban and if you host a tournament w/o MK nobodies going to come to it. Thats why I'm not going to ban MK at my tournament cause then they'd all hate me.

If they do ban MK and add officially to the SBR ruleset, it will eventually transition. And if Brawl gets on MLG 2010 circuit, they most likely will go by the SBR ruleset like I think they did in melee.

 

[Xyro77]

Play nice Mew2King
Flames are a no-no.

maybe i asked for it. some people just dont like facts

 

[Darxmarth23]

Exactly 50% yes right now. The percent is dropping.

 

[raidos]

I think the reason for the drop this time is more and more people are picking up metaknight and don't want him banned because well, they are winning with him.

Just a theory.

 

[Vyse]

maybe i asked for it. some people just dont like facts

Ah, before M2K's post was a one-liner which I couldn't really let go. As it is now I probably woulda looked past it.

Nevermind me

(Just play nice while I go back to my Uni lecture... )

 

[UTDZac]

I guess my G&W wasn't good enough for you M2K

Xyro did have a lot of fun announcing:
"(Random good persons name) got three stock by (Random not so good person / character)"

People laughed. Welcome to Hobos!

 

[M@v]

These threads always degenerate into this :/. Mk kinda screws the CP system, since its like "Oh MK can take anyone!". A lot of people fall back on MK when they are feeling pressured, even if they dont play him much. Its happened to me many of times. I used to play mk as a second, and I did that for a while myself. It just isnt even that fun, which is why I dropped him and picked up two other secondaries instead(Falco/Lucario). Should MK be banned? I dont know. I havent seen enough conclusive evidence. However, Temp banning MK sounds like a great idea. It would be interesting to see the results.

 

[Delvro]

I don't like being forced to ban a character, but I do think that banning metaknight would greatly increase variety in successful tournament characters.

Nobody in Kentucky mains metaknight except OS. However, about 1/4 of the people here switch to metaknight when they lose the first match of a set. And then they win. With metaknight as a secondary.

Definitely, SOMETHING needs to be done.

 

[M@v]

Can I ask OS a question? He "HATES" Mk, but he mains him?

Hypocrite much?

 

[Xyro77]

Can I ask OS a question? He "HATES" Mk, but he mains him?

Hypocrite much?

he picked up metaknight to beat people and help prove that metaknight needs to go

 

[LuigiKing]

This is a terribly ignorant post. We want the best players to be winning. If the best players are playing MK right now, then we want them to keep winning. The point of the ban is to promote competitive growth and diversity in tournament results, not to change the players that are placing in the tournaments.

QFT x100000