SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I see people I've played over at AiB here.

Also Shield DI is silly, I;d rather work on more consistent method to punish.

 

[culexus・wau]

Hey just saying.

Shield DI has saved my ****ing *** a bunch of times.

it means the different between getting knocked off a platform/off the edge.

I just don't think we should be doing it to punish **** lol.

 

[phi1ny3]

So guyz I herd abowt this kewl thing kald DI, and you just push up when he starts going "whiiiiir roflcopter ahahahaha" with his silly arms owt and u get liek a free dair or "butt uair" lolz.

 

[Steam]

butt hitboxes FTW.

but wut if we dun want to take damage or stale our butt?

 

[phi1ny3]

I'd get hit by that...

if it meant getting ROB into the air and off his camping high horse.

 

[Steam]

true lol, plus SDI likes to make me roll even on multihits

 

[phi1ny3]

Smash DI rulz, it gets u out of Halberd's lazor, does this to knee:
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and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Tony T]

Well There are still some thing's that I'm learning atm and smash DI is one of them.
Hmm I'll try to put some data on Lucario's B-Sticking its strengths and weaknesses when I can. LucarioOwl taught me how to B-Stick but I enhanced it to be alot more then an advanced tech.
I know Lee Martin uses the B-Stick tech with lucario as well.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Here's Infinity's random MU tidbit for the day.

Lucario's UTilt clings with part of ZSS's side B.

 

[phi1ny3]

as does BAS, which is funny

the problem is that the hitbox stays out for a little bit, but it does like nearly nothing

worst yet, if you're right in front of her, it'll do nothing.

 

[Tony T]

ZSS is a Mystery to me lol. Still learning the match up.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I think we do better than 50:50 to Zoot Suit Spamus, quite possibly 60:40 or 65:35. The thing is there are so few ZSS players that we don't get too much knowledge about the MU.

It feels fighting her is really gimmicky and well her style of play is horribly telegraphed (possibly as much as G&W).

However, I would recommend asking xxpatgxx about it, as he mains both Lucario and ZSS.

@SonicFalco, you might want to ask him if he wants to do some friendlies with you at a tournament or something seeing as you both live in NY (or WiFi firendlies, lol).

 

[Browny]

asking someone who mains both characters wont help as much as youd think

I may be the best sonic/luc in my country but that doesnt mean I have any experience in the matchup between the two at all lol

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

I'll ask snakeee about the matchup.

 

[phi1ny3]

I think we do better than 50:50 to Zoot Suit Spamus, quite possibly 60:40 or 65:35. The thing is there are so few ZSS players that we don't get too much knowledge about the MU.

It feels fighting her is really gimmicky and well her style of play is horribly telegraphed (possibly as much as G&W).

However, I would recommend asking xxpatgxx about it, as he mains both Lucario and ZSS.

@SonicFalco, you might want to ask him if he wants to do some friendlies with you at a tournament or something seeing as you both live in NY (or WiFi firendlies, lol).

Best yet, Patg's next to Dazwa and close to those other EC ZSS players, so he could play the MU at any point if he wanted to (too bad he doesn't do too much of lucario anymore).

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Best yet, Patg's next to Dazwa and close to those other EC ZSS players, so he could play the MU at any point if he wanted to (too bad he doesn't do too much of lucario anymore).

http://allisbrawl.com/ladder/player.aspx?id=48284

I beg to differ.

I've sparred with his ZSS on WiFi before, but I'm not sure if he's played the MU IRL.

Either way he probably knows something, it would not hurt to ask.

 

[phi1ny3]

But he doesn't use luc offline, where it really counts...
he was getting pretty good too.

 

[hichez50]

I have played Patg numerous time and from expirence I would say the match up is slightly in lucarios favor. The only thing that gives lucario trouble is when ZSS and Lucario are both at high percents sideB has more range that fsmash.

What hinders lucario potential to be great? Every agrees that lucario isn't a bad charater but nobody ever really does anything with him. Most of the good lucario players seem so move on after they get recognized for lucario.

 

[xxpatgxx]

But he doesn't use luc offline, where it really counts...
he was getting pretty good too.

This is what the wifi training is for. It is to get my lucario up to speed with matchups so I can start using him seriously again.

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh cool, now I see.

 

[xxpatgxx]

On another note, I honestly think the lucario vs ZSS MU is in her favor. She can juggle him to high percents with U-air and it also out-prioritizes all his aerial options until he gains the aura boost. She can walk away from his dair range as he's coming down and bait his airdodge for a free double D-smash to anything else. He can out camp her especially when his aura-sphere begins to grow bigger, and he can kill her quickly at times. They both gimp each other occasionally so it's almost an even MU, just slightly in ZSS's favor. 55:45 or 60:40 at best. Another funny thing about the matchup is that both lucario and ZSS tend to be good on the same stages like Final Destination and Smashville, and cps like Frigate and Brinstar.


One more thing, it also depends on how well both chars know how to handle her suit pieces which can also have a factor in the matchup.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

BAS clings with thrown armor, so that's not too bad. Not to mention Lucario's glidetoss is pretty long.

What if Lucario hard camps?

When would you recommend Lucario to use his DAir? (Obviously rarely on shield.)

*Goes to compare frame data.* http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=265245

Edit: Good lord her UAir comes out in FOUR FRAMES!?! At least we have a quicker IASA for DAir.

Didn't realize DSmash had that much shield stun... Hmm wonder if we can Air Walk that.

But yeah looks like we have to fight her in an unorthodox style.

Whiff a grab and take a buttload of damage...

 

[Steam]

ZSS uair beats our Dair?

 

[iDeo]

Myth, Lucario's camp game isn't so strong to the point where we can "hard camp."

The only part about this MU is in close quarters because she dominates with the 1 frame jab among other moves as well which include her up-tilt. Fact that she is a speed character shifts the MU in her favor because Lucario can't handle the speed factor. we can space as much as we want but it's easy for them to just shield it and move in closer, where Lucario doesn't shine.

Majority of her aerials are faster to and all Lucario has is the fair, which is mostly the staple for combo strings. All ZSS has to do is SH side B and WHAMO! we lose that part of our game.

Best thing is we have our Goku power and that she's light so we can kill her faster when we hit about 50-60%.

I'd say it's slightly in ZSS favor.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

@Steam - Don't think so, we have transcendent priority with it. Only if we are predictable with our DAir since her UAir comes out as fast as our DAir.

I still need to learn the right way to DI her Forward B...

@iDeo - But by the time we hit uber high % Aura Sphere is going to om nom that shield.

Also, don't hang out too much right at the edge her Side B might knock you off and hit.

 

[Steam]

also be good at PSing since it kills ZSS.

thankfully I use falco too so lololol this MU.

and is it just me or does everyone above Dtier think they go 55-45 us? >_>

 

[Kitamerby]

ZSS vs Lucario is such a hotly debated matchup.

All the Luc mains are 100% sure that it's in his favor.

All the ZSS mains are 100% sure that it's in her favor.

So far, as far as I know, more top Lucs have beaten top ZSS mains than vice versa. :V

 

[Steam]

yes but Luc is repped more meaning its more likely for his best players to be better players than the top ZSS players. Larger player pool =/

 

[xxpatgxx]

also be good at PSing since it kills ZSS.

thankfully I use falco too so lololol this MU.

and is it just me or does everyone above Dtier think they go 55-45 us? >_>

Definitely. If you're able to PS everything she does she will be on the defensive and it will be much easier to beat her. ZSS excels at putting on the pressure, so PS-ing all her moves puts her in an uncomfortable position she isn't used to. Most of her ground moves aren't safe anyway, so PS alot!

 

[Steam]

ZSS is also extremely PS-able where it counts so ya.

 

[culexus・wau]

SideB is extremely easy to PS once you make reactions for it.

Dsmash isn't as easy due to the fact they can mix-up charges.

theres a bunch of dumb SDI related things you can do if dsmash even hits anyway LOL

 

[iDeo]

@iDeo - But by the time we hit uber high % Aura Sphere is going to om nom that shield.

But isn't that for every character when we AS their shield. It doesn't change the fact that she can pressure Lucario hard and Luc doesn't have the tools to handle it other than to space and AS. Regardless if their shield is dwindling your opponent will still approach by any means (safe mostly) to close in and do damage.

 

[Steam]

Zss is kinda SOL at mid range though when approaching assuming you can PS sideB. ZSS has a hard time dealing with camping in general as well. =/

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Infinity's daily MU thing. If you charge Aura Sphere when Snake uses Cypher in the air (near the ground) and if he dips down when starting it... Snake gets caught in the charging Aura Sphere and if its big you're going to lock him in it for 20%ish.

 

[Steam]

and refresh all your moves ^

 

[Tony T]

ZSS is crazy and to be honest if I can make any sense of this, yeah zss u-air and u-smash does have priority over our d-air and her forward b cancels out our f-smash even with the aura boost unless you use f-smash first when shes over lucario there is a chance that lucario's atk will get in first before her forward b connects chances increase with the aura boost. Her forward B is her greatest kill move.

@Infinity I would like to face pats ZSS again. I only faced it once when I was starting to get used to wifi last season on AIB.

 

[Pitbuller26]

ZSS is crazy and to be honest if I can make any sense of this, yeah zss u-air and u-smash does have priority over our d-air and her forward b cancels out our f-smash even with the aura boost unless you use f-smash first when shes over lucario there is a chance that lucario's atk will get in first before her forward b connects chances increase with the aura boost. Her forward B is her greatest kill move.

@Infinity I would like to face pats ZSS again. I only faced it once when I was starting to get used to wifi last season on AIB.

ZSS is a tough matchup for Lucarios who have no experience against her. Want to know why?
You have to switch up your style in this match. Get in your mind this: "You're not going to kill her with Fsmash". The sooner you think this the sooner you won't get punished for it. I used to be terrified of ZSS as I lost to that character 4 times in a row but after beating her everything seemed so clear.

Basically: AS and uair for our kills. Try not the dair or fsmash as often as you would in other matchups. Learn to PS her stuff.

 

[Tony T]

ZSS is a tough matchup for Lucarios who have no experience against her. Want to know why?
You have to switch up your style in this match. Get in your mind this: "You're not going to kill her with Fsmash". The sooner you think this the sooner you won't get punished for it. I used to be terrified of ZSS as I lost to that character 4 times in a row but after beating her everything seemed so clear.

Basically: AS and uair for our kills. Try not the dair or fsmash as often as you would in other matchups. Learn to PS her stuff.

OK gotcha I'll keep that in mind thanks pitbull.

 

[Browny]

U-air and it also out-prioritizes all his aerial options until he gains the aura boost.

......

Do you know whats wrong with this statement? With such a fundamental flaw in understanding the mechanics of aerial attacks (and the effect of aura boost) I cant take the rest of your post seriously.

that said, top USA lucs beat top ZSS players regularly. player base is irrelevant. My personal experience says this is luc favour, so all things considered Ill go with that.

 

[Steam]

I'm fairly sure our Dair can go through that uair anyways. Even if not it's close enough to actually compete with her Uair