SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[MythTrainerInfinity]

The more I think about it the more we might need a "help against character thread" I tried to make one against certain situations, but it kinda was a bit tl;dr.

Anything specific Falco does that gives you trouble?

 

[iRJi]

Falco is easy.

 

[Pitbuller26]

Out of the 3 spacies, Falco should be the easiest one. The only thing Falco has that should give you trouble is that jab of his if the Falco knows how to cancel the last part of the jab. Its that good.

 

[culexus・wau]

Falco is one of the easier popular characters for us to beat.


Someone teach me to get out of marth's pressure :<

 

[phi1ny3]

I murder falcos not named Nerd around here.

But Nerd plays like a mini-DEHF (gets coached by him too) so...
yeah

 

[Zucco]

Fox is gay.

I have no idea how to fight him.

Played one in tourney yesterday.

Kept ****ing up everything.

Still won 2-0 but it was not a good time.

Yes I went to a tournament.

Lost to Ksizzle and Atomsk.

Had no chance against either, and only brought them to game 3 because they tried a spacey before using their main.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Fox is gay.

I have no idea how to fight him.

Played one in tourney yesterday.

Kept ****ing up everything.

Still won 2-0 but it was not a good time.

Yes I went to a tournament.

Lost to Ksizzle and Atomsk.

Had no chance against either, and only brought them to game 3 because they tried a spacey before using their main.

I know how to fight wolf/falco quite well actually

to bad I only fight Game'n'Watches and Metaknights at every tourney...or john12346

ONLY...

Penta
Pwii
Inui
PGN/Vinnie
Some random New York Guy
Mew2King
Smurf
Nakat
John12346
Other NJ MK mains I dont feel like posting

 

[iDeo]

Fox is gay.

I have no idea how to fight him.

Played one in tourney yesterday.

Kept ****ing up everything.

Still won 2-0 but it was not a good time.

Yes I went to a tournament.

Lost to Ksizzle and Atomsk.

Had no chance against either, and only brought them to game 3 because they tried a spacey before using their main.

U have a chain grab on all the spaceys. For Fox u can do it up to 5 times but go to 4 because i think on the 5th they can get out, just use the up throw and just move forward a little as u do it.

I haven't tested it yet on moving Foxes yet but i plan on it today. 0-24% if u don't have ur goku strength yet, XD.

 

[ksizl4life]

Fox is gay.

I have no idea how to fight him.

Played one in tourney yesterday.

Kept ****ing up everything.

Still won 2-0 but it was not a good time.

Yes I went to a tournament.

Lost to Ksizzle and Atomsk.

Had no chance against either, and only brought them to game 3 because they tried a spacey before using their main.

i can't believe i lost with falco. **** lucario. you don't know how to fight tornado yet so you have some things to learn. junebug did just fine vs me probly because he asked me many questions about fighting tornado right before we played (i didnt know we were supposed to play, the ******!!! lol)

im the best zss

 

[iRJi]

U have a chain grab on all the spaceys.

No, you don't.

And fox you can CG up to 40%.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Approach falco with a crawl.

He has to either stop SH lasering and approach, or camp with standing laser, all of which is stupid for a falco to do.

You also have enough raction time to see a phantasm comming as well.

 

[Zucco]

I did fine game 2. Gave up game 3 after how bad it started. I have no confidence once something terrible happens and my opponent greatly out skills me as a player.



good thing I quit.

 

[Steam]

Don't say that Zucco. You're Lucario, make **** happen. =[

 

[culexus・wau]

He'll be back.

 

[phi1ny3]

Like I said, all the spacies cause trouble for Lucario in some shape and form.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Like I said, all the spacies cause trouble for Lucario in some shape and form.

2 words...

Shippo Smash

[Lucario's Slight Charge Upsmash]

 

[Pitbuller26]

Like I said, all the spacies cause trouble for Lucario in some shape and form.

The only one that legitimately gives Lucario issues is Fox. **** that Usmash.

 

[culexus・wau]

The only one that legitimately gives Lucario issues is Fox. **** that Usmash.

disagreeeeeeeeeement.


Fox is scary and annoying, his pressure and keep-away will always make the match-up icky.

Falco is aggravating, you just to find a way to get your hits in and make them hurt, otherwise meh.

Wolf is hard until you figure out the tricksies that make him less scary, still meh either way.

 

[Pitbuller26]

We all agree Fox can go to hell.

Falco isn't aggravating at all. Ftilt, dair and AS are your best friends against Falco. Ftilt will hit Falco if he attempts to jab. What we consider the most annoying things Falco has differs among you and I. I consider Falco's jab the most annoying thing about him.

Wolf, his only reliable kill move on us is dsmash which will kill early. Again, you can fight Wolf similar to Falco. If the Wolf prefers to shine to cover his ***, bait it and punish it.

Here's my way of thinking on the spacies. If they're off stage, go beast on them, do not allow them back on stage.

 

[culexus・wau]

I'll agree to disagree I guess.

Lasers are far more a annoying to me then jab will ever be.

Wolf's Bair realllly makes our aerial game vs him meh, and his fair aint that bad either. He's defiantly the least of the threat of the three.

but he's still annoying until you figure out how fight wolf [esp once you learn to SDI fsmash <3]

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah Wolf is probably the easiest of the three, but a good punisher that can cover virtually any range, a pretty safe on block kill move (which kills pretty well) and a really good zoning aerial (plus certain shine patterns can block out a lot of approach options when used correctly), combined with a superior camp game (then again, that applies to all the space animals lol) make for a still tough opponent. The only problems are he still has some nasty blindspots in the air once you get him where you want to, he's horrible offstage, and he just doesn't have as good of tools Falco or Fox does.

Fox could easily be 40:60 while 45:55 is also decent to say, I think the only things going for us is our ability to outzone (still very easy to penetrate from a good fox, which is once again counterable with the right adjustments) and our semi-reliable CG + equalizers, plus fox has a similar problem to Wolf imo with the relative inability to get Lucario off when you get on him (we're not assuming trying a juggling scenario or anything "looser" than the previous, Fox can get around that so easily). Having the good setups, punish moves, kill moves, and damage racking options really hurts.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Good lord I had no idea Fox's moves came out that fast. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240800

Seems like Fox has WTFHAX startup, but meh ending lag.

Wolf's framedata thread is confusing me.

Also, our BAir starts up faster than Peach's FAir lol (our BAir 15, their FAir 16).

 

[iRJi]

Yeah Wolf is probably the easiest of the three, but a good punisher that can cover virtually any range, a pretty safe on block kill move (which kills pretty well) and a really good zoning aerial (plus certain shine patterns can block out a lot of approach options when used correctly), combined with a superior camp game (then again, that applies to all the space animals lol) make for a still tough opponent. The only problems are he still has some nasty blindspots in the air once you get him where you want to, he's horrible offstage, and he just doesn't have as good of tools Falco or Fox does.

Fox could easily be 40:60 while 45:55 is also decent to say, I think the only things going for us is our ability to outzone (still very easy to penetrate from a good fox, which is once again counterable with the right adjustments) and our semi-reliable CG + equalizers, plus fox has a similar problem to Wolf imo with the relative inability to get Lucario off when you get on him (we're not assuming trying a juggling scenario or anything "looser" than the previous, Fox can get around that so easily). Having the good setups, punish moves, kill moves, and damage racking options really hurts.

Semi CG? We CG him to 50 o_o. Uthrow to 40, then Dthrow/Bthrow. It also works until you are over 70%. I tested that out, I know you know that lol.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah what I meant by that is that it's percent dependent depending on aura, we're guaranteed like 24% uthrow CG regardless of aura boost, right? Then after that, it's a little more depending on how little of a boost you get.

 

[Zucco]

ive never been able to get the CG past 24%. what am I doing wrong.

 

[hichez50]

are we discussing fox? Also That frame data for fox shocked me also.

 

[iDeo]

Turns out when i was trying out my up-throws on Falco yesterday on moving targets it couldn't be done. I'm a sad panda now; stupid RJ being right, XD.

But oh well it works on Fox and Wolf. At least Luc. can gimp Falco though so it's always a plus against that turkey.

 

[phi1ny3]

I don't think it works on wolf either unfortunately.

shine = party pooper.

 

[superlucario]

I need to break the habit of throwing every bodie down

 

[iDeo]

I don't think it works on wolf either unfortunately.

shine = party pooper.

oh it's solid on wolf, i tried it. made sure of that. XD

 

[phi1ny3]

Really?

10reallysandyays

edit: It wouldn't happen to be done via shield grabbing, would it?

19ohnoeshejumpsnao

 

[iDeo]

Really?

10reallysandyays

edit: It wouldn't happen to be done via shield grabbing, would it?

19ohnoeshejumpsnao

no need to shield grab, it works up to 29%.

there are variations to it that i'm playing around with, so i'll need to make sure they work as well.

 

[phi1ny3]

and versus mode against a non-CPU wolf?

This sounds pretty nice if it's true.

 

[Steam]

Luc has it til 20ish on wolf but be perfect because shine has invincibility starting on frame 1 iirc.

also pummel grab release offstage= gimps spacies (not falco iirc)

 

[iDeo]

Luc has it til 20ish on wolf but be perfect because shine has invincibility starting on frame 1 iirc.

also pummel grab release offstage= gimps spacies (not falco iirc)

uh it's like Falco just has that small evasion tactic when ppl try to find stuff to kill him faster or have an advantage. but oh well, XD

Speaking of, weren't we talkin' bout Rob or have we just said screw u robot and went spacies? lol

 

[Steam]

falco is safe becacuse he doesnt fall as fast

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Every falco loves to dair when someone's under them

Such a bad habbit no other character has that proble-

O wait...

 

[Zucco]

uh it's like Falco just has that small evasion tactic when ppl try to find stuff to kill him faster or have an advantage. but oh well, XD

Speaking of, weren't we talkin' bout Rob or have we just said screw u robot and went spacies? lol

we kinda just talk about the hot topic nowadays.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Just wondering at this point in time what would people say is Lucario's worst match-up, D3 or Meta?

Or is it stage dependent?

Meta is starting to annoy me a bit. Waits until you land, grabs, and hassles you offstage like no one's business. Now that I think about it though charge canceling might really help...

D3's game though is like "Okay, I'm going to try to grab you and you know its obvious as hell."

Thoughts?

 

[phi1ny3]

Depends on the Lucario honestly.

I'm starting to think MK isn't the worst, but for me he's difficult because the zoning in the MU is weird, you're basically "wifi zoning" without any real pressure on him from a neutral position, punishing any whiffed tilt with fsmash. Most MKs (even some pretty good ones) I'm not sure whether I just recover very well or not, but I think that MK can really wreck lucario offstage, it requires a knowledge of his options though and where to hit the most of them.

DDD is annoying, if you play it right, you're incapable of dying for a long time, but nearly every hit is unsafe lol. If you're getting utilted or dsmashed, it means you were read on Reading Rainbow. bair is really annoying though, like every move that isn't taken care of with shield is beaten by bair unless full hopped. Unlike MK though, you can harass DDD's recovery pretty well. Requires similar spacing to Snake imo. Jab is really useful for getting a reaction especially if you crossed up on him, if he spot dodges, he's definitely either going to SH bair or grab (either direction works), or if you're at kill percents, utilt. fullhop fair can still nick him if he's not shielding from what I remember, so keep that in mind. ALWAYS DI BAIR, or you're going to be killed much more easily. A really good video to watch on how the MU is played properly is Zucco's third game vs. Atomsk, it really shows Lucario's capability to catch up to DDD if you are playing extremely smart and avoiding high reward little risk moves and waiting for an opening.