Smash 4 Social Thread 3.0

[Substitution]

So while playing Classic Mode a CPU playing Sonic got the Final Smash. And effectively knocked out the other two opponents while SDing. I love it when the AI does my job for me.

 

[KingIceSonic]

You automatically lose the right to complain when you compare the clone characters to anyone not in the game.

If I loose the right to complain then I wouldn't be able to complain anymore, but I still am

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

I wasn't even giving a real argument to someone who isn't contributing and just wants some attention. Wow such smarts

L

So let me get this right, you came to this thread to complain, bash frequent posters here such as myself and then compare clones to characters not in the game. It's people like you that give a bad name to the smash community.
Everyone else, I apologize for even taking him on, so what do you guys think of Captain Toad's price point?

 

[Soul.]

Dat Tower of Smash tho

Lol, if that's true then I don't know.
At least Smash 3DS is getting more modes, amiibo compability and potential DLC (yes, potential. Not guaranteed).
Anyways, Mega Beedrill gets its base Attack and Speed increased. Mega Pidgeot's base Special Attack is increased.
No Guard STAB Hurricane let's go.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

Lol, if that's true then I don't know.
At least Smash 3DS is getting more modes, amiibo compability and potential DLC (yes, potential. Not guaranteed).

Also, the Tower of Smash leak mentions Event Mode not returning, while we can hear it in the sound files, so.....

 

[DraginHikari]

Having Dr.Mario and not Mewtwo made the situation worse. >> in terms of requests

Sakurai himself said they can't just bring characters from Melee without making them from scratch. Yes Dr.Mario has Mario's
model but Roy has Marths model right? So why not add him instead of and keep her as the so called costume alt?

The situation couldn't be worse than taking out a character that only has smash to live for

Probably has something to do with the fact that Lucina was more recent to Roy and fit Marth's animations more closely. If the costume plans were as they have been stated are correct, then Lucina was already been working on and in progress when the decision. It's unlikely that Roy was ever going to be a part of the discussion. Especially once they decided the Koopalings would be costumes for Bowser Jr. which already has a Roy.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

Basicaly I came to expect most if not all leaks from 4chan to be fake unless they cite an outside source.

 

[Croph]

Anyways, Mega Beedrill gets its base Attack and Speed increased. Mega Pidgeot's base Special Attack is increased.
No Guard STAB Hurricane let's go.

Wat? There's new Megas!? *goes to check Serebii*

Why am I always slow on these things lol

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Wat? There's new Megas!? *goes to check Serebii*

Why am I always slow on these things lol

You've heard it here last with resident slowpoke @ Croph

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

"Example: a game is built with such depth that it brings to a player's mind memories of defeat. As a game designer, I can't ignore this possibility. If, in a multiplayer fighting game, only the winner feels good and the other challengers get no such feeling, then there is really no joy at all. No matter how people play, I want everyone to be happy! Is this asking for too much?"

http://www.n-sider.com/contentview.php?contentid=443

Sakurai wants everyone to win.

...What? How did you get that from what he said? Sakarai wants people to feel happy when they play, not for everyone to win. If they lose, it should be because the other person played well, and they both had fun no matter what.

"When you experience defeat, you should not feel down or remorseful, but rather praise your opponent for putting up a good fight. This is the essence of Smash Bros." - Said by Sakurai.

 

[TJ-Works]

Wat? There's new Megas!? *goes to check Serebii*

Why am I always slow on these things lol

Well, basically, you've got Mega Pidgeot.

And Mega Beedrill.

They look... pretty big.

 

[Frostwraith]

I'm just tired of arguing about clones and spouting the same thing over and over again.

As someone whose entire University course is about computer engineering, it's just complicated to see people not understanding things from a developer's view.

I look into Sakurai's interviews and statements, and the things he says make sense to me. I am open minded enough to understand other viewpoints, but it's really frustrating to tell the truth and people ignore it and try to be the voice of reason when they don't know what they're talking about.

Being ignorant and not wanting to learn more from those that know is something that irks me. It infuriates me to no end.

 

[KingIceSonic]

So let me get this right, you came to this thread to complain, bash frequent posters here such as myself and then compare clones to characters not in the game. It's people like you that give a bad name to the smash community.
Everyone else, I apologize for even taking him on, so what do you guys think of Captain Toad's price point?

I came here to bash frequent users but you were the one who responded to ME and bashed my opinion. Smash community at its finest

Probably has something to do with the fact that Lucina was more recent to Roy and fit Marth's animations more closely. If the costume plans were as they have been stated are correct, then Lucina was already been working on and in progress when the decision. It's unlikely that Roy was ever going to be a part of the discussion. Especially once they decided the Koopalings would be costumes for Bowser Jr. which already has a Roy.

Roy might have been part of the discussion if they were thinking about bringing Melee veterans like Dr.Mario back. His color swap was already in the game and that shows they thought about him.

 

[TJ-Works]

I'm just tired of arguing about clones and spouting the same thing over and over again.

As someone whose entire University course is about computer engineering, it's just complicated to see people not understanding things from a developer's view.

I look into Sakurai's interviews and statements, and the things he says make sense to me. I am open minded enough to understand other viewpoints, but it's really frustrating to tell the truth and people ignore it and try to be the voice of reason when they don't know what they're talking about.

Being ignorant and not wanting to learn more from those that know is something that irks me. It infuriates me to no end.

If Video Game Developing was a class subject in school, we'd all have a good idea of how games works.

A lot of people enjoy video games for fun, but they won't necessarily question about how the games they play are made. It's the same as everyone enjoying food, but not all of us ask how the food we eat is made, but we can still critique it on a basic level.

That's just what most people are like.

 

[Frostwraith]

If Video Game Developing was a class subject in school, we'd all have a good idea of how games works.

A lot of people enjoy video games for fun, but they won't necessarily question about how the games they play are made. It's the same as everyone enjoying food, but not all of us ask how the food we eat is made, but we can still critique it on a basic level.

That's just what most people are like.

It's not just video game development.

Some of the subjects I have and classes I attend are about software development overall. Project managing, programming and all that.

Video games are software. Video games are computer programs. They have their differences that stand out, but at their core, they're no different from the Internet browser you're using, whatever programs NASA uses for their investigations and so on.

While the things I'm learning are for general cases, I can still extrapolate them to a video game development team.

Having programmed things before, I know some insight few other people on this site know. I know how awfully faster is to make a clone character than it is to make an entirely (or sufficiently) unique character. You can't compare the time you save by doing an entire new method or whenever you copy and paste a bunch of code and make some alterations to it for a different purpose.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Anyone know how many custom equipment, headgear, outfits, and Smash Powers there are total in the game? I'd like to know how much progress I have left...

 

[Blargg888]

Yes and in this mode character names change into names of users of SmashBoards. For example, Dark Pit changes into Frostwraith.

And Ganondorf's name changes to Other Frostwraith.

So let me get this right, you came to this thread to complain, bash frequent posters here such as myself and then compare clones to characters not in the game. It's people like you that give a bad name to the smash community.
Everyone else, I apologize for even taking him on, so what do you guys think of Captain Toad's price point?

$40 is good. I'm looking forward to the game.

 

[Naoshi]

40 dollars sounds about right. I was originally annoyed at the possibility of it being 60... but turns out I was wrong. haha

 

[TJ-Works]

It's not just video game development.

Some of the subjects I have and classes I attend are about software development overall. Project managing, programming and all that.

Video games are software. Video games are computer programs. They have their differences that stand out, but at their core, they're no different from the Internet browser you're using, whatever programs NASA uses for their investigations and so on.

While the things I'm learning are for general cases, I can still extrapolate them to a video game development team.

Having programmed things before, I know some insight few other people on this site know. I know how awfully faster is to make a clone character than it is to make an entirely (or sufficiently) unique character. You can't compare the time you save by doing an entire new method or whenever you copy and paste a bunch of code and make some alterations to it for a different purpose.

It's cool you have much insight on this. But like I've said, there's a good chance a lot of people don't possess such knowledge of "how making a game works.", but will still act like they do, anyway.

If you're gonna try enlighten those people, go ahead. But if they won't listen to you or try to understand what you're saying, you're better off ignoring them instead of stressing over the topic more and more. It ain't healthy, man.

Keep calm and carry on.

 

[Frostwraith]

And Ganondorf's name changes to Other Frostwraith.

Don't forget Robin becoming Tactician Frostwraith.

It's cool you have much insight on this. But like I've said, there's a good chance a lot of people don't possess such knowledge of "how making a game works.", but will still act like they do, anyway.

If you're gonna try enlighten those people, go ahead. But if they won't listen to you or try to understand what you're saying, you're better off ignoring them instead of stressing over the topic more and more. It ain't healthy, man.

I do my best to try and make people understand, but I guess some people are just too stubborn for me to handle... And I am stubborn myself.

Keep calm and carry on.

Like a true British gentleman would say.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes and in this mode character names change into names of users of SmashBoards. For example, Dark Pit changes into Frostwraith.

And Bowser Jr. changes into RamOne?
Nah, I'm just kidding.

 

[Blargg888]

Don't forget Robin becoming Tactician Frostwraith.


I do my best to try and make people understand, but I guess some people are just too stubborn for me to handle... And I am stubborn myself.


Like a true British gentleman would say.

Shulk's name would change to Blargg. For I have figured out that Shulk and I are the same person.

 

[TJ-Works]

And Bowser Jr. changes into RamOne?
Nah, I'm just kidding.

I thought Neku the Pooh turned into RamOne.

Don't ask, it's his avatar. I've never seen him change it.

 

[KingIceSonic]

I'm just tired of arguing about clones and spouting the same thing over and over again.

As someone whose entire University course is about computer engineering, it's just complicated to see people not understanding things from a developer's view.

I look into Sakurai's interviews and statements, and the things he says make sense to me. I am open minded enough to understand other viewpoints, but it's really frustrating to tell the truth and people ignore it and try to be the voice of reason when they don't know what they're talking about.

Being ignorant and not wanting to learn more from those that know is something that irks me. It infuriates me to no end.

How was that being ignorant? Sakurai's translation sounds like a double standard regardless of what he meant and sitting down to decide the roster is not a process that requires computer engineering like balancing & programing. So why reply with extra information about time consumption when in that statement it wasn't even addressed and it didn't need to be addressed to make a point.

 

[Croph]

Well, basically, you've got Mega Pidgeot.

And Mega Beedrill.

They look... pretty big.

^ wth, that insect monster looks like something from Power Rangers haha.

Anyway, I kinda like the designs of Mega Beedrill and Pidgeot. Although, it's all about that Mega Steven Stone.

 

[Frostwraith]

How was that being ignorant? Sakurai's translation sounds like a double standard regardless of what he meant and sitting down to decide the roster is not a process that requires computer engineering like balancing & programing. So why reply with extra information about time consumption when in that statement it wasn't even addressed and it didn't need to be addressed to make a point.

I get the feeling that some of the things Sakurai states are lost in translation, unfortunately.

Deciding a roster is part of the planning. You think software development is just programming and designing? Dead wrong. Each character means a huge workload. Designing their moves, programming their moves, animating their models to match said moves. Debugging and testing that often also take time and are among the things that may be very time consuming

Projects only succeed if they're well planned from the beginning, with a clear objective. Otherwise, they're doomed to fail. The larger scale a project is, the better planning it must have.

And time is a big factor when making a program (if not the biggest), hence the emphasis in carefully planning. You don't want to bite more than you can chew. If something is going to take more time than planned, you have two options: scrap it, or scrap other things for it.

People on a development team, the director included, work on a timed schedule. The clock is ticking. Nintendo, the development team's client, wants to sell the game. They want it ready at a deadline. And the development team has to meet that demand.

 

[TJ-Works]

Deciding a roster is part of the planning. You think software development is just programming and designing? Dead wrong. Each character means a huge workload. Designing their moves, programming their moves, animating their models to match said moves. Debugging and testing that often also take time and are among the things that may be very time consuming

As a budding character artist, there's even more to creating a character. On top of this, there's concept art, a lot of brainstorm/planning, a lot of adjustments and changes, scaling work, modelling, sculpting, texturing, greenlight approval, etc. etc. etc.

As someone who is on a Computer Games Art course, who worked within a game development team with other students, video game developing isn't a cakewalk. Even with Nintendo, they do the same game making process as everybody else; a lot of time, planning, resources, skill level, and such, goes into Smash Bros.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

My Smash game has made me sad for the past 3 days.

1. Wednesday: I got a PK Freeze thing for Ness
2. I got a Wolf Trophy yesterday
3. And worst of all, I got an Ice Climbers trophy today.

 

[TJ-Works]

My Smash game has made me sad for the past 3 days.

1. Wednesday: I got a PK Freeze thing for Ness
2. I got a Wolf Trophy yesterday
3. And worst of all, I got an Ice Climbers trophy today.

Here you go.

Take them and go masturbate. It'll take your mind off it.​

 

[Frostwraith]

As a budding character artist, there's even more to creating a character. On top of this, there's concept art, a lot of brainstorm/planning, a lot of adjustments and changes, scaling work, modelling, sculpting, texturing, greenlight approval, etc. etc. etc.

But, of course!

I just gave just the implementation point of view. Add all you mentioned to the what I said and you have a ton of time consuming work.

As someone who is on a Computer Games Art course, who worked within a game development team with other students, video game developing isn't a cakewalk. Even with Nintendo, they do the same game making process as everybody else; a lot of time, planning, resources, skill level, and such, goes into Smash Bros.

Far from being a cakewalk. I mean, perusing a games' staff listing is enough to see the amount people involved in one game. And all of them get paid for their contribution.

There's money, bureaucracy, negotiation and a lot of other stuff happening behind the scenes for months during a project.

 

[Blargg888]

Whoa. Apparently using yellow pikmin on the Classic/allstars credits screen is really weird.

 

[Kenith]

Why did you people tell me 9.0 Classic Mode wasn't hard?
Master Core was the easiest part. It seems like the CPUs always know exactly what I'm about to do at any given moment.

 

[Deleted member]

Why did you people tell me 9.0 Classic Mode wasn't hard?
Master Core was the easiest part. It seems like the CPUs always know exactly what I'm about to do at any given moment.

The whole point of 9.0 Master Core is "Make sure you don't lose your first stock before the sword form." Other than that he's fairly easy for the most part.
The real challenge of a 9.0 run are the team battles.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Why did you people tell me 9.0 Classic Mode wasn't hard?
Master Core was the easiest part. It seems like the CPUs always know exactly what I'm about to do at any given moment.

It's almost like they were programmed to consider the situation before taking an action

 

[Kenith]

The whole point of 9.0 Master Core is "Make sure you don't lose your first stock before the sword form." Other than that he's fairly easy for the most part.

I just wish the sword form had more "counter-able" moves.
You would not believe how quickly Master Core falls to constantly Countering its attacks.

The real challenge of a 9.0 run are the team battles.

Yep. I was hoping they wouldn't play out like in Melee.
First they wreck your incompetent CPU partner, then they come for you.

 

[KingIceSonic]

I get the feeling that some of the things Sakurai states are lost in translation, unfortunately.

Deciding a roster is part of the planning. You think software development is just programming and designing? Dead wrong. Each character means a huge workload. Designing their moves, programming their moves, animating their models to match said moves. Debugging and testing that often also take time and are among the things that may be very time consuming

Projects only succeed if they're well planned from the beginning, with a clear objective. Otherwise, they're doomed to fail. The larger scale a project is, the better planning it must have.

And time is a big factor when making a program (if not the biggest), hence the emphasis in carefully planning. You don't want to bite more than you can chew. If something is going to take more time than planned, you have two options: scrap it, or scrap other things for it.

People on a development team, the director included, work on a timed schedule. The clock is ticking. Nintendo, the development team's client, wants to sell the game. They want it ready at a deadline. And the development team has to meet that demand.

We fans don't think about time when we see roster, and that is bad on us

But even if we did it would still be like Why did they waste a year making Palutena and not Ridley, he would take less time

Which ultimately means that someone will always be upset(Especially since Sakurai trolls people). Which brings me to my first point. We don't know how much time they will spend on a character so Sakurai's interviews are the only thing that we get for insight and the fact that he goes against what he says(No Mii/Villager) and contradicts himself(Rosalina is popular so she is in but Mewtwo, easy & popular isn't)makes things worse.

 

[Substitution]

The best level nines are the ones with Counters. You can just feel the hair being ripped out of your scalp.

 

[Kenith]

At least All-Star on hard is still relatively easy (compared to 9.0 Classic Mode)...
Really wish they could give you three stocks instead of two.

 

[RamOne]

My Smash game has made me sad for the past 3 days.

1. Wednesday: I got a PK Freeze thing for Ness
2. I got a Wolf Trophy yesterday
3. And worst of all, I got an Ice Climbers trophy today.

And the worst part of it is that the Ice Climbers trophy doesn't even show up as the Ice Climbers in Hoard. It's the Excitebiker trophy instead. Unless it's just my game...
And I agree with our good gathering friend @ Kenith Classic Mode 9.0 is hard. I manage to get to Master Core, but I always lose there. I think I should practice with a projectile-wearing character.

 

[TJ-Works]

And the worst part of it is that the Ice Climbers trophy doesn't even show up as the Ice Climbers in Hoard. It's the Excitebiker trophy instead. Unless it's just my game...
And I agree with our good gathering friend @ Kenith Classic Mode 9.0 is hard. I manage to get to Master Core, but I always lose there. I think I should practice with a projectile-wearing character.

You should make sure that character has a good recovery move too. I got messed up at Master Core a couple of times just because I was launched too far to reach the stage with a sh**** recover move.