Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[PowerBomb]

Quick Attack, Aura Sphere, Detect, and Bone Rush. That's all he needs. He can have Leftovers and EVs in Attack/Speed. If Pit is slow, then speed EVs can be relegated to HP.

All IVs are set to 31.

 

[JOE!]

i'll ask again:

why do rounds after making a tier list?

 

[REL38]

@Dryn

*lol at late response :/


Simply put, the HP dealy is there to display how many hits any said character is able to take before reaching death.

Taking it away is like making an unneeded nerf.
BBrawl took away alot of the range and power behind Snake's tilts to make him less "broken", but more so to allow other characters viability.
Why do characters with a blatant advantage (some more than others) require said advantage to be taken away or nerfed just because they seem to be "broken" in a way?

HP isn't made to be realistic. Claiming it to be game mechanic holds true to most all other aspects in all of the characters here.

Getting a critical hit is purely luck. It's meant to throw you a bone.
Start up time for items/weapons in-game aren't necessarily accurate. Many are just for show.
In-game speed =/= actual speed. Too slow makes things uninteresting wherelse making things too fast causes frustration to the player.
Player button input shouldn't be considered for many attacks. They're meant as a rewards system that involves the player.
Stats aren't comparable to anything we can actually measure. They're only true in their respective games.
Unlimited ammo is only there to make things easier for you. It takes away worry of constant "reloading".
Boss Battle limitations should prevent OHKO. Killing a Boss in one hit is very rare in all video games.


HP is a game mechanic. But so is unlimited ammo, invincibility and upgrades.
Just because it doesn't suit others well doesn't mean we nerf it to "balance" the playing field.
It's unfair by giving the party without the advantage a gained one while the losing party loses that advantage which made them better.

What do we see as a result of this?
Mother Boys drop down. Defense is souly PSI dependent now.
Mario & Company drops down. They're vulnerable to death blows.
Pokemon drop. No longer able to sustain the insane attacks they previously could.
Zamus drops. She's got no way to dodge unescapabe atacks such as Thunder
Snake drops. He's only human.
Fire Emblem drop. Humans with magic and swords. Magic isn't a constant force field.


Just some examples.

HP shouldn't be taken out just because its a game mechanic or to cater to those who lack it. It has a set purpose to serve. Just like many other "game mechanics" found in various games. But it still serves a significant purpose that it doesn't merit it being nerfed or taken out completely.

Making things too realistic is damaging. Pikachu survived acid in-game, but now he can't?
It's realistically inprobable, but according to his games, it is possible.
No HP is completely ignoring game functions with too much realism.



In regards to estimating damage ratios. That's left unto those debating each side. I merely used the Mewtwo VS Ness debates as an example.
It was said that PK Rockin' Omega would deal high levels of damage to Mewtwo because it did in Earthbound. Is this enough evidence to show that Mewtwo would actually recieve a similar amount of damage?

I don't know. I never actively participated in that debate and simply lurked.

In reality, neither game can be compared in regards to game stats because each follow a completely different system of calculating damage, relating damage and HP to individual enemies/characters, individual stats, "lucky hit" ratios, battle mechanics, level-up ratios, weakness/weak points, player input and much more.

I don't believe a "universal HP system" should be implemented because it's niegh impossible. Inaccuracy, opposition, complaints, guessed estimations, questionable mathematics and too many radically different genres of games are all problems here.

There's no hope for a "universal HP system".

TL;DR
Health is there to serve a purpose which is to give characters the ability to withstand attacks.
Taking it out screws characters over from too much realism tossed in here.
Saying it's game mechanic as an excuse isn't good enough. Critical Hits, invinciblity and character speed would also fall under this category to a certain extent.
It lowers characters that depend on it.

Comparing Earthbound/Pokemon stats is impossible without high levels of inaccuracy.
Simply not possible.

@MU
Meh
My wall of text makes me not really care :/

@JOE

Inorite? But w/e.
If anything, it's displaying a more in-depth analysis of each characters' abilities that were previously ignored or not known.

 

[Phaigne]

At PowerBomb.

I doubt Bone Rush would even affect Pit, seeing as he has wings and could avoid ground type attacks, Quick Attack is rather weak (Why not ExtremeSpeed?), and Detect can fail. though I will give you a STAB'd Aura Sphere is somewhat deadly. I've never played a lot of Kid Icarus, though, so I can't say much there.

 

[missingnomaster]

Detect will never fail on its first use. It can be refreshed with Aura sphere.

 

[PowerBomb]

I don't know why Bone Rush won't work on flying enemies, considering it's not on the ground and you're clubbing things 2-5 times.

I think that it would work in the air.

 

[Samochan]

Ground moves in general on pokemon never work against those that have flying attributes or levitate, unless you use another move to negate these or stuff. It really shouldn't work on this contex either, just like sheer cold having ****ty accuracy unless accompanied with mind reader. I kinda doubt such club move would have the range either, cause when you use bone rush, you throw the bone around but I doubt bones have the aerodynamics to fly very far or accurately to even hit a flying target. <.< Lol at 80% accuracy too. On anime, since lucario doesn't even have a bone around, he makes a staff looking bone and smacks stuff around with it.

Rather have swords dance/aura sphere/extremespeed/close combat(me first/detect/foresight) than quick attack and bone rush. <.<

"By catching the Aura emanating from others, it can read their thoughts and movements.

A well-trained one can sense auras to identify and take in the feelings of creatures over half a mile away."

Pokedex entries I know, but considering how this information is repeated on anime AND brawl (trophy and subspace emissary scene with snake in da box) AND species (not forgetting Lucario's moveset, the second only non-legendary poke to learn aura sphere), it's totally canon.

 

[Hyesz]

PowerBomb has good logic there.

Too bad Gamefreaks don't.

Erm in this battle I'll have to vote Pit. I dunno why.

Edit: Samochan's logic countered PowerBomb's. Rofl.

 

[justaway12]

About that flying enemies thing.

I've never seen Pit fly.

Maybe I'm wwrong, but I alway thought he just jumped.

EDIT: Forget it, I'm stupid >_>

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Last battle items aren't allowed. Items/powerups obtained to fight the last boss aren't allowed... I think.

Back-up is considered as sentient help. F-Zero Machine isn't alive. Yune is sentient, she willingly backs Ike up by giving him her power.

It's not just the last battle. It's more then that. Without it, Ike wouldn't have gotten to the last battle in the first place.

There is also the fact that based on what we know about other people blessed before the big battle, it doesn't go away for quite a long time. Meaning after the battle he still has the blessing, same with his sword.

I mean, the Black Knight had a noticeably weaker version of the blessing on just his armor for who knows how long, and it only went away after Ike attacked him in FE9 and a Castle fell on him. This is with Ashera still asleep, so either the armor had the blessing for centuries after it's original owner died from old age, or she could give weak blessings while being in basically a coma...somehow. >_>

 

[Crystanium]

Unlike Link, who doesn't wear any armor, Pit has Silver Armor. That's 1/2 damage reduction. He has Light Arrows, which act like a laser, in that it pierces through multiple opponents. He is capable of flight as well, and he has a Mirror Shield. This is everything Pit has in his final battle with Medusa. I'm not so sure about the Silver Armor, though. If Pit does not have the three treasures, then he gets Flaming Arrows with upgrades that increase damage and distance. He also has the Protective Crystals, which circle around him and if enemies touch it, they either are killed or injured. (Stronger enemies take damage.) It also protects him against firepower. Could be useful against Aura Sphere, perhaps. Just to point out something else, Pit is the captain of Palutena's army. That's a plus for him, so he's a fighter, just like Lucario. That is all. Pick apart what you wish.

Well, the arrows Pit fires go straight at a rather slow pace.

I almost missed this. Arrows can travel at 187 mph. In-game, the fire rate is fast. We could slow it down a bit, kind of like what we did with Link. That is to say, Link never had to pull out another arrow from his quiver. If Pit has Light Arrows, there's no reloading, in the sense that he has to reach for a quiver. In-game, the quiver is entirely non-existent. Then again, it is a sacred bow, so maybe arrows generate on their own.

Simply put, the HP dealy is there to display how many hits any said character is able to take before reaching death.

To repeat myself, HP comes from the original Dungeons & Dragons, which was an RPG game. There are several games today that get rid of HP altogether. Call of Duty, for example, gives you a certain amount of hits you can take before you die. In multiplayer mode, for example, it takes two hits. If you get this one drink, you can take maybe about five hits before you're down. The point is, you really don't have HP. You just somehow miraculously heal if you avoid taking extra hits. Dead Space is another game that kind of throws out the HP approach. Instead, you have this powered armor, and the back part shows your "health." When that's completely gone, you're dead. This is understandable, because it's the armor that's taking the damage, not you.

Let's bring up Superman video games. I can't say they were great games, but that's beside the point. Notice that Superman is given health. What? He's Superman! Unless you're getting shot at with Kryptonite or magic bullets, since these two things actually affect Superman, I don't see why he has health in the first place! And unless he's fighting someone like Doomsday, he really should only be getting thrown around.

Taking it away is like making an unneeded nerf.
BBrawl took away alot of the range and power behind Snake's tilts to make him less "broken", but more so to allow other characters viability.
Why do characters with a blatant advantage (some more than others) require said advantage to be taken away or nerfed just because they seem to be "broken" in a way?

I haven't said anyone is broken, so I don't know what you're trying to go with here.

HP isn't made to be realistic. Claiming it to be game mechanic holds true to most all other aspects in all of the characters here.

Let's never mind that it's unrealistic. It's problematic. You know the reasons.

HP is a game mechanic. But so is unlimited ammo, invincibility and upgrades.

I know, but it's not problematic in the same way HP is. If you're going to be doing HP, you'd better find a way how to calculate it so everyone can come to an agreement. About unlimited ammo, though. Magic? Space age technology? Upgrades aren't really a game mechanic. If I wanted to, I could upgrade my weapons in real life. Anyway, again, it's not so much about realism as it is about the problem with agreeing on HP or other stats, in which two characters conflict with each other. Ness has 999 HP, Mewtwo has 416 HP. 1 HP equals 10 HP in the other character's universe.

Just because it doesn't suit others well doesn't mean we nerf it to "balance" the playing field.

I'm unsure what you mean. I'm not trying to balance anything here.

What do we see as a result of this?
Mother Boys drop down. Defense is souly PSI dependent now.
Mario & Company drops down. They're vulnerable to death blows.
Pokemon drop. No longer able to sustain the insane attacks they previously could.
Zamus drops. She's got no way to dodge unescapabe atacks such as Thunder
Snake drops. He's only human.
Fire Emblem drop. Humans with magic and swords. Magic isn't a constant force field.

Agreed.

The rest, you seem to be repeating yourself. It's not about realism. It's not about balancing characters.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

@Power: I wouldn't really call Yune back-up. When I say no "back-up" allowed, I mean it generally. No actual back-up allowed, as in another character for example. A god/goddess who've already granted or blessed their powers to a character is totally fine.

 

[Samochan]

In the issue of hp... the low, average and high amounts of hp of each game are comparable. Like, if shuckle has low hp on pokemon standards, shuckle would also have low hp on earthbound standards as well. Considering mewtwo's hp can go above 400 in total, base stat being 106 and the average HP Stat is 72 of all Pokémon and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 81, his hp is higher than average. Top 30 out of all pokemon's hp in fact. Blissey ofc boasts the max hp with 255 base.

I think same could be applied to poke's other stats too.

 

[Crystanium]

In the issue of hp... the low, average and high amounts of hp of each game are comparable. Like, if shuckle has low hp on pokemon standards, shuckle would also have low hp on earthbound standards as well. Considering mewtwo's hp can go above 400 in total, base stat being 106 and the average HP Stat is 72 of all Pokémon and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 81, his hp is higher than average. Top 30 out of all pokemon's hp in fact. Blissey ofc boasts the max hp with 255 base.

I think same could be applied to poke's other stats too.

Please clarify. Mewtwo has 416 HP total in the Pokémon Universe. What would this be in EarthBound? What would Ness' be in the Pokémon Universe? If you're going to use HP, have fun explaining how much damage attacks do and coming up with an agreement with other people. You may as well play these match-ups like RPGs.

 

[Samochan]

Please clarify. Mewtwo has 416 HP total in the Pokémon Universe. What would this be in EarthBound? What would Ness' be in the Pokémon Universe? If you're going to use HP, have fun explaining how much damage attacks do and coming up with an agreement with other people. You may as well play these match-ups like RPGs.

Has it been clarifyed exacly how much damage would Psi-rocking do, for example? I only saw something akin to high damage, but enough to ohko mewtwo (or something like that). But basically, what I'm saying that even though the exact hp numbers cannot be transferred from game to game (unless someone wants to play with mathematics here), one could make a hazard guess where for example, mewtwo's hp amount would stack in earthbound if we had something akin to listing of earthbound character min and max hp's (or something like that), because we know mewtwo's hp is around 25-30% more than total average of the fully evolved pokes.

Cause if it comes down to deciding matchups or something... I kinda doubt Ness could ohko mewtwo if we took this approximate hp thingy into consideration (unless ness is broken lol). <.<

Just a thought

 

[Crystanium]

Has it been clarifyed exacly how much damage would Psi-rocking do, for example? I only saw something akin to high damage, but enough to ohko mewtwo (or something like that). But basically, what I'm saying that even though the exact hp numbers cannot be transferred from game to game (unless someone wants to play with mathematics here), one could make a hazard guess where for example, mewtwo's hp amount would stack in earthbound if we had something akin to listing of earthbound character min and max hp's (or something like that), because we know mewtwo's hp is around 25-30% more than total average of the fully evolved pokes.

Cause if it comes down to deciding matchups or something... I kinda doubt Ness could ohko mewtwo if we took this approximate hp thingy into consideration (unless ness is broken lol). <.<

Just a thought

I thought PSI Rockin' did like 900 damage or something. I've never played it before. But anyway, the two aren't in each others universe. They're in one neutral location that does not favor either side. Also, if we were to do this, then the characters would be altering their HP each time they fought someone else with HP. Let's say Mewtwo also reached 999 HP in his fight with Ness, but when Mewtwo fought Marth, whose HP is increasing, and whose is decreasing? Would that really be accurate?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I'm pretty sure Pit could fly for as long as he wants.. and as high as he wants. His arrows (which can be in form of 'normal', light, and fire) go very far distances, or only stop when they make contact with something (just like in brawl).

He can pretty much just camp Lucario till he wins..

 

[Diddy Kong]

Has it been clarifyed exacly how much damage would Psi-rocking do, for example? I only saw something akin to high damage, but enough to ohko mewtwo (or something like that). But basically, what I'm saying that even though the exact hp numbers cannot be transferred from game to game (unless someone wants to play with mathematics here), one could make a hazard guess where for example, mewtwo's hp amount would stack in earthbound if we had something akin to listing of earthbound character min and max hp's (or something like that), because we know mewtwo's hp is around 25-30% more than total average of the fully evolved pokes.

Cause if it comes down to deciding matchups or something... I kinda doubt Ness could ohko mewtwo if we took this approximate hp thingy into consideration (unless ness is broken lol). <.<

Just a thought

Are you familiar with EarthBound? My calculation had Mewtwo with just 150 HP more than the Final Starman. I personally think that'd be about right.

For the record, PSI Rockin' Omega is NOT the strongest move in the game. PSI Freeze Omega (Gamma to maybe) PSI Starstorm Alpha & Omega do more damage for example. Jeff's Multibottle Rocket does even more.

Now Psychic isn't the strongest move in the game either, having but a base power of 90 -135 actually, cause Mewtwo is also a Psychic type. But Mewtwo's insane Sp.Atk makes it do more damage than if another Pokemon would preform it. Only Deoxys in Attack Mode can do a Psychic stronger than Mewtwo's, and that's because it's by far the strongest Pokemon.

Calm Mind would make the attacks even stronger, just 2 uses of this move and Mewtwo's Sp.Attack and Sp.Defence are double of what they originally where. Stats easily can go over the 1000s in Pokemon, except you don't see it in the summary cause it's just a temporary boost.

Still think Mewtwo should've won from Ness...

 

[Samochan]

I'm pretty sure Pit could fly for as long as he wants.. and as high as he wants. His arrows (which can be in form of 'normal', light, and fire) go very far distances, or only stop when they make contact with something (just like in brawl).

He can pretty much just camp Lucario till he wins..

I kinda doubt Pit could camp for indefinite time, he's bound to get tired at some point when trying to stay airborne. Plus Lucario has Detect, he can simply alternate between that and evading/firing his own stuff at Pit. I'd think someone trying to stay in the air and shooting arrows is bound to exert themselves more than someone staying on ground and avoiding some arrows and blocking some there and there. Lucario is also a fightning type pokemon, he has the endurance and stamina to outlast Pit (heck, riolu's pokedex say "Its body is lithe yet powerful. It can crest three mountains and cross two canyons in one night." and he's pre-evo of Lucario). Also, if Pit wants to actually hit Lucario with his arrows, he needs to be withing seeing distance so he can aim lol, thusly making him susceptible to counterattacks. Lucario can also sense his movements from great distances via his aura and Aura Sphere basically never misses (unless Pit flies, which is a problem), but Extremespeed should be able to cover that. Not to mention Lucario can learn Mind Reader via breeding, so if he were to have mind reader/aura sphere/extremespeed/detect moveset and leftovers/(R)Brightpowder as item, Pit would be screwed if it came down to campfest. And before you say "you need trainer to breed", the answer is that pokes do breed in the wild as well, otherwise they'd all be more extinct than Aerodactyl. Lucario is also so rare you cannot even find one in the wild, so it wouldn't be too farfetch'd (pun) if one were to breed with one of the Hitmon's or Medicham instead of it's own species.

Diddy, how much HP does Final Starman even have? *_* Mewtwo's Aura sphere would wreck havoc imo, even if he doesn't get stab. With his second best sp.a in the whole game lol, he's bound to deal lotsa damage and Aura Sphere always hits too unless protected and such or dig/flyed. And that calm mind too lol, mewtwo's too broken with calm mind/aura sphere/psychic(me first/stuff)/recover, though if no tm's he could do with amnesia +2 to sp.def in it's place. Me First would especially be devastating to ness if he ever uses a really powerful move. If Mewtwo is faster than Ness, he could use the same move with 50% more power against Ness, "The user tries to cut ahead of the foe to steal and use the foe's intended move with greater power. " Mewtwo's base speed is 130, average is 80 for fully evolved pokes and he's in top 6 out of all pokemons, where those cutting ahead are named Electrode, Ninjask and Deoxys forms (so pretty **** good imo lol).

 

[Diddy Kong]

Final Starman has about 1400 HP IIRC. My "EarthBound Mewtwo" had about 1585 HP.
Ness can still have his 999 HP and scrolling HP for all I care, but I just don't think Mewtwo would die instantly from not even the strongest attack in EarthBound <_<

 

[Samochan]

Final Starman has about 1400 HP IIRC. My "EarthBound Mewtwo" had about 1585 HP.
Ness can still have his 999 HP and scrolling HP for all I care, but I just don't think Mewtwo would die instantly from not even the strongest attack in EarthBound <_<

Plus Mewtwo has Recover, which would mean 792,5 hp recovery in one turn rofl, plus he has access to Barrier and Amnesia and boost, then recover off the damage. =) To my understanding Ness's attacks are special based (liek energy and all), so Mewtwo would only need amnesia.

 

[thesage]

Mewtwo would die instantly from pk flash. It has a 3/8 chance of killing him outright. Ness can just do it like 5 times and he has a near 100% chance of killing Mewtwo within 5 moves. If pk flash doesn't kill Mewtwo, it messes him up in some other way (blinding him, confusion, or paralyzing him).

Ness has a rolling hp meter so it's impossilbe to OHKO him. Couple that with healing and reflective properties...

Ness wins. I don't care how much hp or w/e they had. That's all subjective.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Still think Mewtwo should've won from Ness...

If proved correctly, I can always change it.

 

[Samochan]

Mewtwo would die instantly from pk flash. It has a 3/8 chance of killing him outright. Ness can just do it like 5 times and he has a near 100% chance of killing Mewtwo within 5 moves. If pk flash doesn't kill Mewtwo, it messes him up in some other way (blinding him, confusion, or paralyzing him).

You do realize that Me First could effectively use that said move against ness, cept Mewtwo could equip himself with wide lens/scope lens to boost accuracy by 10%/more chance of critical hitting, or equip himself with Focus Sash, thus making it impossible to ohko Mewtwo if he has full hp (recover whoot). Focus band would be 10% chance of surviving a fatal hit.

Safeguard protects against status ailments and you know, Mewtwo could just disable the **** attack after Ness uses it the first time. Substitute would be good on this match, but not gonna use tm's. Also, if Ness can do the move only 5 times, Mewtwo's pressure ability makes him waste 2 instead of 1. =)

Ness has a rolling hp meter so it's impossilbe to OHKO him. Couple that with healing and reflective properties...

Noone has ever explained rolling hp to me and how it works. <.<

Ness wins. I don't care how much hp or w/e they had. That's all subjective.

Blargh

 

[Crystanium]

I kinda doubt Pit could camp for indefinite time, he's bound to get tired at some point when trying to stay airborne.

Let's go to JOE!'s thread. I don't recall Pit getting tired of flying when he had the Wings of Pegasus.

Plus Lucario has Detect, he can simply alternate between that and evading/firing his own stuff at Pit.

Protective Crystal orbits around Pit and absorbs firepower. It injures enemies who get close, too.

I'd think someone trying to stay in the air and shooting arrows is bound to exert themselves more than someone staying on ground and avoiding some arrows and blocking some there and there. Lucario is also a fightning type pokemon, he has the endurance and stamina to outlast Pit (heck, riolu's pokedex say "Its body is lithe yet powerful. It can crest three mountains and cross two canyons in one night." and he's pre-evo of Lucario).

JOE!'s thread is not far from here.

Also, if Pit wants to actually hit Lucario with his arrows, he needs to be withing seeing distance so he can aim lol,

Not a problem, because it's not like Lucario is miles away.

Aura Sphere, meet Protective Crystal. Protective Crystal, this is Aura Sphere. Pit also has Silver Armor, which is means enemy damage is reduced in half. Not to mention, he also has a Mirror Shield. And if you even bother using HP (I was leaving this out), then Pit gets his five bar health, along with the Barrel, which has an additional 8 drinks. Also, not to confuse you, these bars do not mean it will take five hits before Pit is KO'ed. Another thing is that upon loss of all health, the drink is automatic, and it's nothing dramatic like what you'd see in OoT when Link "faints" and the fairy brings him back alive.

 

[Samochan]

BLAARRGHH

Dryn, I'm no Kid Icarus expert. >.> I forgot he had that gear and all.

Nevermind lol, I saw that thread.

 

[Crystanium]

BLAARRGHH

Dryn, I'm no Kid Icarus expert. >.> I forgot he had that gear and all.

And what's JOE!'s thread? <_<

JOE! has a thread like this, or it could be the other way around. Except he takes what is scientifically possible and what is real and has the characters in Brawl fight each other. So, let's say Sonic is really high up on the tier list here. He won't be in JOE!'s thread, because it's impossible to run at the speed Sonic goes in his games.

 

[thesage]

You do realize that Me First could effectively use that said move against ness, cept Mewtwo could equip himself with wide lens/scope lens to boost accuracy by 10%/more chance of critical hitting, or equip himself with Focus Sash, thus making it impossible to ohko Mewtwo if he has full hp (recover whoot). Focus band would be 10% chance of surviving a fatal hit.

Pk flash doesn't do damage. It outright kills people.

Safeguard protects against status ailments and you know, Mewtwo could just disable the **** attack after Ness uses it the first time. Substitute would be good on this match, but not gonna use tm's. Also, if Ness can do the move only 5 times, Mewtwo's pressure ability makes him waste 2 instead of 1. =)

Ness can do pk flash a ****load of times. He also can heal himself of disable through pk healing. He has 666 pp and Pk Flash Omega costs 32. He also can recover pp through several items. I'm too lazy to outline all of his abilities again. Look it up in the thread.

Just note that Psi Rockin wouldn't work on Mewtwo going by ingame stats, since Metwo's speed is too high. It would have to high a chance to miss.

Ness is going to doing damage mainly through bags of dragonite (he has 4) and reflecting damage back at Metwo.

Noone has ever explained rolling hp to me and how it works. <.<

Look up a vid of an earthbound battle. >.>

 

[Samochan]

JOE! has a thread like this, or it could be the other way around. Except he takes what is scientifically possible and what is real and has the characters in Brawl fight each other. So, let's say Sonic is really high up on the tier list here. He won't be in JOE!'s thread, because it's impossible to run at the speed Sonic goes in his games.

Personally I'm not being totally realistic, but trying to think these through logically with what I have. I'm not trying to disprove some abilities that are canon if they're scientifically impossible or illogical either, though sometimes in the past if inconsistencies occur I've tried my best to explain/solve how's and whether it would work at all. I didn't recall Pit had Wings of Pegasus for example, I had forgotten if you had mentioned them at some point, thus I mentioned that Pit would most probably get tired from flying for extended period of time cause he's at least partly human (unless being an angel would make him unable to get tired at all). Besides, can't really deviate into full realism anyway when talking about a flying Angel with various equipment, some that hover around him on their own and arrows made of light against a bipedal animal that's supposedly made of part steel and can generate aura spheres out of nowhere. =)

Pk flash doesn't do damage. It outright kills people.

You did say it has 3/8 chance of killing outright, but focus sash prevents such thing if mewtwo has full hp (as would substitute). And if mewtwo is faster, he could safeguard before ness manages to attack, take the hit (either normal or ohko), disable it and quickly recover off the damage (or other way around, disabling the last attack ness used).

Ness can do pk flash a ****load of times. He also can heal himself of disable through pk healing. He has 666 pp and Pk Flash Omega costs 32.

Ups my bad, I read he can only use it up to 5 times instead of only needing to use it 5 times. <.<

Ness is going to doing damage mainly through bags of dragonite (he has 4) and reflecting damage back at Metwo.

What's bag of dragonite? O_o Reflecting stuff back is win though.

 

[missingnomaster]

You do realize that Me First could effectively use that said move against ness, cept Mewtwo could equip himself with wide lens/scope lens to boost accuracy by 10%/more chance of critical hitting, or equip himself with Focus Sash, thus making it impossible to ohko Mewtwo if he has full hp (recover whoot). Focus band would be 10% chance of surviving a fatal hit.

Safeguard protects against status ailments and you know, Mewtwo could just disable the **** attack after Ness uses it the first time. Substitute would be good on this match, but not gonna use tm's. Also, if Ness can do the move only 5 times, Mewtwo's pressure ability makes him waste 2 instead of 1. =)


Noone has ever explained rolling hp to me and how it works. <.<

Ness has an item that protects against the OHKO effects of Flash, so Me First wouldn't help Mewtwo very much against PK Flash.

Safeguard would probably be a waste of a slot since Ness has so much offensive and defensive power. Disable only lasts a few turns.

For rolling hp, basically, when Ness gets hit, his HP starts going down, but Ness can still do stuff while it's going down. Since he's got a move that fully heals his hp, that makes it near impossible to take him down. So even if you hit him with something that did 999 points of damage to him, he could simply heal it off.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Rockin ignores defensive stats, so Amnesia and the defensive boost from Calm Mind wouldn't help.

Pressure may actually be very useful against Ness depending on how you look at it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ness can do pk flash a ****load of times. He also can heal himself of disable through pk healing. He has 666 pp and Pk Flash Omega costs 32. He also can recover pp through several items. I'm too lazy to outline all of his abilities again. Look it up in the thread.

Just note that Psi Rockin wouldn't work on Mewtwo going by ingame stats, since Metwo's speed is too high. It would have to high a chance to miss.

Ness is going to doing damage mainly through bags of dragonite (he has 4) and reflecting damage back at Metwo.

^ The truth has finally been spoken.

PSI Rockin' indeed can fail. And if failure depends on Speed, Ness just can't use the move against Mewtwo. Period.

Safeguard prevents PK Flash to work, and maybe it doesn't work on Mewtwo at all since PK Flash only works against certain enemies.

Pressure wastes Ness' PP twice as fast. Going physical might be Ness' only offensive option left.

 

[Samochan]

Safeguard prevents PK Flash to work, and maybe it doesn't work on Mewtwo at all since PK Flash only works against certain enemies.

This is what I'm curious at :o Ness has too much PP and self-restoring items for pressure to work properly though.

Now if mewtwo could only get substitute by allowing tm's... embargo/endure/snatch/torment/brick break/protect/light screen/toxic/taunt/recycle/t-wave/skill swap (what would be ness's ability lol?) would all be very useful against ness imo.

 

[Crystanium]

Personally I'm not being totally realistic, but trying to think these through logically with what I have. I'm not trying to disprove some abilities that are canon if they're scientifically impossible or illogical either, though sometimes in the past if inconsistencies occur I've tried my best to explain/solve how's and whether it would work at all. I didn't recall Pit had Wings of Pegasus for example, I had forgotten if you had mentioned them at some point, thus I mentioned that Pit would most probably get tired from flying for extended period of time cause he's at least partly human (unless being an angel would make him unable to get tired at all). Besides, can't really deviate into full realism anyway when talking about a flying Angel with various equipment, some that hover around him on their own and arrows made of light against a bipedal animal that's supposedly made of part steel and can generate aura spheres out of nowhere. =)

Pit would be supernatural. I suppose you could say inhuman nature, which is given to gods, aliens, machines, because they're not human.

 

[missingnomaster]

Why does Safeguard protect against PK Flash? Last I checked, it didn't stop fainting.

And Focus Sash would not save Mewtwo from PK Flash either. Thesage wasn't kidding. If Pk Flash kills an opponent, they don't receive damage. The damage process is skipped all together and they foe is simply defeated. Focus Sash wouldn't activate because HP is bypassed completely.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Pit wins, next MU Raizen?.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This is what I'm curious at :o Ness has too much PP and self-restoring items for pressure to work properly though.

Now if mewtwo could only get substitute by allowing tm's... embargo/endure/snatch/torment/brick break/protect/light screen/toxic/taunt/recycle/t-wave/skill swap (what would be ness's ability lol?) would all be very useful against ness imo.

Toxic wouldn't be too good, since Ness can cure poison and other status effects quite easily.
Embargo would be cool
Endure, yeah but wastes 1 moveslot
Torment, kinda forgot what it does lolz
Brick Break, yeah when going physical togheter with Bulk Up instead of Psychic / Calm Mind
Protect, nah... moveslot
Taunt, I wanted to let Mewtwo use this before but Ness' shields aren't as dangerous as they sound, besides Psych Up would take the shield so it's all good
Recycle, whats that again? New move I assume?
Thunder Wave, yeah... but I guess Ness could heal that with PSI Healing
Skill Swap, Ness has no ability lolz

Psych Up / Mist, Recover, Calm Mind / Amnesia / Bulk Up, Psychic / Brick Break is what I think Mewtwo's moveset should be against Ness.

Don't care much for the outcome of Pit vs Lucario really, but I think Lucario has the egde cause it can learn many many moves.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Toxic wouldn't be too good, since Ness can cure poison and other status effects quite easily.
Embargo would be cool
Endure, yeah but wastes 1 moveslot
Torment, kinda forgot what it does lolz
Brick Break, yeah when going physical togheter with Bulk Up instead of Psychic / Calm Mind
Protect, nah... moveslot
Taunt, I wanted to let Mewtwo use this before but Ness' shields aren't as dangerous as they sound, besides Psych Up would take the shield so it's all good
Recycle, whats that again? New move I assume?
Thunder Wave, yeah... but I guess Ness could heal that with PSI Healing
Skill Swap, Ness has no ability lolz

Psych Up / Mist, Recover, Calm Mind / Amnesia / Bulk Up, Psychic / Brick Break is what I think Mewtwo's moveset should be against Ness.

Don't care much for the outcome of Pit vs Lucario really, but I think Lucario has the egde cause it can learn many many moves.

I thought Pokemons can only learn 4 moves, don't they?

Oh sorry, misunderstood.

Edit: Gonna move on. The outcome alright with everyone?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah it's good by me at least. I think this is the first fight which was actually kinda even. ^^ How'd Pit won though?

 

[Samochan]

Pit would be supernatural. I suppose you could say inhuman nature, which is given to gods, aliens, machines, because they're not human.

*nods*

With all the gear you pointed out Pit had, I dunno how Lucario could get past all that and still win. Imo, Pit wins this round.

Why does Safeguard protect against PK Flash? Last I checked, it didn't stop fainting.

And Focus Sash would not save Mewtwo from PK Flash either. Thesage wasn't kidding. If Pk Flash kills an opponent, they don't receive damage. The damage process is skipped all together and they foe is simply defeated. Focus Sash wouldn't activate because HP is bypassed completely.

PK flash would stop working at all if it only works on enemies that can be status ailmented, if this is what Diddy hinted at. Please clarify this Diddy.

Ohko moves in pokemon are somewhat similar in nature to PK flash. "when used, cause the target's HP to drop to zero regardless of their stats. " Though I admit, it still works on dropping their HP to zero, cause they always "inflict damage equal to the opponent's current HP". :/ So blargh...

Focus sash: "If the user has full hit points before a potentially fatal attack, this allows it to survive the attack with 1 HP" <_>

--

Diddy, brick break breaks barriers such as reflect and light screen (even if it misses lol). Wouldn't rolling hp constitute as Ness's ability? <_> Torment prevents moves to be used on row, while recycle would take the item he has previously used and make it useable again. But how would psych up copy Ness's reflecting shield if it's not a stat up move? (or is it lol)

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

VS.

Current Match-Up:
THE MASKED STRANGER Vs. THE CHIMPANZEE

Metaknight Vs. Diddy Kong

Vs.

Round 1, Match 12

Who will win? YOU decide!

Overall Results

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Neutral:

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Loss -1:

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Loss -2: