Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[justaway12]

Oh, I though it was an argument, sorry.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

So what Diddy can do to MetaKnight is:

- Blast his minions away with the Guitar and do damage to MetaKnight which at LEAST equals to Kirby's Mike ability
- Throw Orange Grenades from a distance making it harder for MetaKnight to approach
- Become invincible by banana power preventing all damage
- Heal using bananas
- Fly using Barrel Jetpack and shoot peanuts

That will all work if Diddy Kong could actually get in the Halberd.

Only the Halbert lets MetaKnight win, and I just don't think he should get it <_<

Spacies got their arwings, and Falcon got his F:Zero car, it's only fair if Metaknight gets his Halberd.

 

[UncleSam]

Halberd.

not halbert, WIR made that mistake in the OP as well.

 

[Samochan]

Diddy

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8753311&postcount=5131

Why Metaknight > Diddy kong

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8754745&postcount=5145

And why Falco > Lucas. Franklin badge only protects against certain PSI abilities and *cough* thunder based abilities. Laser =/= thunder. "It is a unique badge famous for its reflective properties that protect its holder from specific PSI abilities"

Of course, if you'd have been posting about Diddy's abilities earlier I could've have more reasonable argument for diddy instead of just scouring information form gameplay videos and such. >_> And just because you think Meta shouldn't have Halberd doesn't mean it's not Legit, you haven't yet provided any good argument why Meta shouldn't have Halberd. On the case of crew, they basically do not need to do any fightning or participation on their own, thus wouldn't provide back-up in a sense. On the case where Meta cannot use crew members, he could summon some. On the case where he cannot use either crew nor summons, Meta can pilot the ship himself as his airship was functional even after Kirby defeated all the crewmen.

As Diddy would need to constantly use Jetpack on halberd due to buffeting winds and no footing, he'd essentially be limited to using peanut gun only. This in the case if he somehow managed to get on top of halberd. Not being able to use any bananas or anything else besides peanut gun would make him a sitting chimp against Combo Cannon.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That will all work if Diddy Kong could actually get in the Halbert.

How'd Kirby get in?

Spacies got their arwings, and Falcon got his F:Zero car, it's only fair if Metaknight gets his Halbert.

No it's not.

Fox & Falco get their Arwing cause Star Fox is all about flying into space really. All games feature them flying Arwings, as their pilot mercenaries.

F-Zero is a racing game, and C.Falcon has no other known abilities than driving... And Falcon Punching <_<

The Halbert is basically just a level. Kirby doesn't fight the Halbert itself I'm guessing? Hell, give Bowser his Koopa army as well while we're at it... Let Ganondorf be able to use all Zelda bosses found in dungeons as well. Let Ganon and Bowser have their castles, make Marth, Roy and Ike have their armies, make Ness and Lucas have their team members, give Mario 99 lives....

Kirby always fought MetaKnight one on one. So he's fighting Diddy one on one as well. Summoning Sword Knights is cool with me, but the Halbert goes way too far...

 

[Crystanium]

Okay what the hell?

Diddy lost to MetaKnight cause of the HALBERT? Who the ****'s gonna beat MK now then? Seriously, why can MetaKnight have the Halbert? Better make him, Fox and Falco top tier now cause nothing can stop the Halbert or the Great Fox. <_<; This **** just doesn't make any sence.

Also, Lucas losing to Falco? HOW? O_O

This thread is going downwards...

I wonder if this means Samus gets to use her Gunship. ****, now Samus is more broken if that's allowed!

 

[UncleSam]

I wonder if this means Samus gets to use her Gunship. ****, now Samus is more broken if that's allowed!

IKNORITE? *highfives*

 

[§leepy God]

♪ The fact she can auto pilot the ship and attack you at the same time is just too broken of Samus. O_o †

 

[Samochan]

The Halbert is basically just a level. Kirby doesn't fight the Halbert itself I'm guessing? Hell, give Bowser his Koopa army as well while we're at it... Let Ganondorf be able to use all Zelda bosses found in dungeons as well. Let Ganon and Bowser have their castles, make Marth, Roy and Ike have their armies, make Ness and Lucas have their team members, give Mario 99 lives....

Kirby needs to destroy the stupid Halberd BEFORE he even fights Metaknight. >_> Halberd is EQUIPMENT, which is totally allowed here. Metaknight OWNS the ship, Pilots it and is the Commander of it, just like Fox and Falco and falcon own theirs.

Pray tell why it should be disallowed just because it happens only on 3 subgames? <_<

Btw castle is not equipment you can take with you, it's property and not exacly something you can carry or transport with you like items are. Besides, these matches are done on neutral ground aka flat terrain, castle is not flat terrain. Armies are certainly back-up with their human persons and all, same with team members. Unless you mean Ness somehow owns people or something like that. >_> Your analogies are not very good for this I'm afraid. :/

--

I don't see why Samus couldn't use her ship, seeing as you can call it to do tasks for you on MP: Corruption like bomb stuff and carry loads.

But then again, I think we need to refrain from using the ship's save point mechanics here lol.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

I thought we all agreed as to why Halberd was allowed..

 

[UncleSam]

Hunter Class Gunship:
Save/Recharge Station, Twin Power beam turrets, Ship missiles, Ship Grapple, and a retractable mounted Plasma beam to cover the rear.

*sniff* so beautiful.

 

[Samochan]

<3__<3

But how much damage would Twin Power beam turrets and a retractable mounted Plasma beam do? : < And since we've never seen her actually use it on combat (true to her game, she's a mobile combat unit herself lol), we can't go assuming she uses it on combat nor how she'd use it on combat. <_< The how is a big question mark here. Just like why Fox doesn't get Great Fox, as he's never used it ingame nor we know how he'd use it (though peppy gave us a fairly good idea when lasering swarm of aparoids rofl). Great fox also is on the orbit, cannot really be used in atmosphere. :/

I'm all for using ship missiles and ship grapple on combat though. :333

 

[UncleSam]

each power beam shot would do as much as a normal power beam shot... it's just there are 4x as many shots
As for the Plasma cannon IDK, but the Recharge station could keep Samus fueled so she can keep spamming consumable projectiles.

 

[Crystanium]

Wario's abilities...

"His strength is many times stronger than a normal man. He is fat but has extraordinary arm strength. He is so strong that his strength exceeds his rival Mario and rivals that of Donkey Kong and even the powerful Bowser. In Wario World, Wario could use his strength to punish his enemies in a variety of ways, including the Piledriver, Corkscrew Conk, and Wild Swing-Ding.

Wario is commonly associated with explosives, including Bob-ombs, and ways of stealing coins, such as a magnet or even a large vacuum of sorts.

Wario's greatest strength, though, is with items, such as the Garlic Pot, Jet Pot, Bull Pot, and Dragon Pot, which give him amazing and unique transformations. He also shares some transformations with Mario such as Fire Wario and Metal Wario. Wario has other various ways in transformings, resulting in transformations such as Crazy Wario, Flat Wario, Fat Wario, Frozen Wario, Electric Wario, and many more. Wario also has the power of farting to stun his opponets [sic]."

In regard to Electric Wario...

"Electric Wario is a transformation in the Wario Land game series. It is triggered by a certain bug enemy's spit; when contact is made, Wario will fall straight to the ground, bounce a bit, and hold stock-still to remove the shock from his body. Any enemies touching him will be immediately defeated."

Source

 

[Samochan]

each power beam shot would do as much as a normal power beam shot... it's just there are 4x as many shots
As for the Plasma cannon IDK, but the Recharge station could keep Samus fueled so she can keep spamming consumable projectiles.

I assume plasma cannon would be much like her own. <3

But me thinks the recharge station goes over the top. Because these should be fought on neutral ground, but basically Samus only would now be provided with mobile Save point you can find from various Metroid terrain locations, only it's fused with her equipment. Ofc, her ship can be damaged to the point you cannot board it before it self-repairs so it might be ok... but still. <.<

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8755952&postcount=5191

Niark

 

[UncleSam]

The ship is just h4x like that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Kirby needs to destroy the stupid Halberd BEFORE he even fights Metaknight. >_> Halberd is EQUIPMENT, which is totally allowed here. Metaknight OWNS the ship, Pilots it and is the Commander of it, just like Fox and Falco and falcon own theirs.

Pray tell why it should be disallowed just because it happens only on 3 subgames? <_<

Btw castle is not equipment you can take with you, it's property and not exacly something you can carry or transport with you like items are. Besides, these matches are done on neutral ground aka flat terrain, castle is not flat terrain. Armies are certainly back-up with their human persons and all, same with team members. Unless you mean Ness somehow owns people or something like that. >_> Your analogies are not very good for this I'm afraid. :/

--

I don't see why Samus couldn't use her ship, seeing as you can call it to do tasks for you on MP: Corruption like bomb stuff and carry loads.

But then again, I think we need to refrain from using the ship's save point mechanics here lol.

I can't see how the Halbert's gonna be classified under equipment.

Bowser has an airship to in Mario & Luigi, will we now get a Top Tier full with characters with battle ships??? That's just ****ing lame. Instead of discussing characters, we'd be discussing on how well their ships are build. Now that's fun... <_<

These match ups are kinda pointless then. Here's the final tier list already:

Broken Tier:
Ganondorf aka Triforce of Power

Space Ship and Sonic Tier:
Samus
Sonic
The Great Fox
The Halbert
Bowser's ship
Blue Falcon

Psychic Tier:
Ness
Lucas
Mewtwo

Invincibility Tier:
Characters who can become invincible

Suck Tier:
Characters that suck

Btw, the Halbert get's destroyed right? How can MetaKnight still use it then? >_> I think it's just bull**** giving MetaKnight the Halbert, as you don't fight MetaKnight that way... You'll just fight the Halbert.

EDIT: Ohh and Lucas should still beat Falco. <_<

 

[Crystanium]

I assume plasma cannon would be much like her own. <3

But me thinks the recharge station goes over the top. Because these should be fought on neutral ground, but basically Samus only would now be provided with mobile Save point you can find from various Metroid terrain locations, only it's fused with her equipment. Ofc, her ship can be damaged to the point you cannot board it before it self-repairs so it might be ok... but still. <.<

Won't be necessary. As a last resort when there aren't any Energy Stations or her Starship to restore her Energy Tanks, Samus can perform the Crystal Flash, which converts 10 Missiles, 10 Super Missiles, and 10 Power Bombs into energy. Samus must set a Power Bomb before she can perform the Crystal Flash, which makes the use of Power Bombs actually 11. This completely restores all of Samus' Energy Tanks. As long as Samus has 10 Missiles, 10 Super Missiles, and 11 Power Bombs, she can use this. However, this can only be used when she only has 49 Energy Units or less left.

 

[UncleSam]

ammo station!
constant supply of missiles and other trinkets means infinite crystal flashes.
Also means infinite Hypermode uses.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

On the current match-up.. None of Wario's transformations are useful here, so that's a no. In terms of other stuff, Wario's does pretty decent but Pikachu has the edge due to powerful volts attack which would kill about anyone on the tier list in a hit.

 

[Samochan]

The ship is just h4x like that.

But this version of gunship cannot land without landing site D: NOOOOO....

Diddy, Ganondorf gets killed on multiple occasion and banished to sacred realm, does that mean he cannot participate in this fight? <_< Or that Sonic gets Super sonic transformation only at certain points and then loses them, means he cannot have those? >_>

True to their games, this topics purpose was to stack characters against each other when we've found what their max potential is. That means they are allowed their best equipment and items and all. It would be fairly dumb if one person gets all their items and other does not. <_< Personally, I'm here because I like this topic and these debates and all. Please don't be overly negative or discouraged just because some chars happen to have battleships and some do not. :/ With Diddy's arsenal he's bound to get high tierish or something, but just because your favourite character lost doesn't mean you need to get overly depressed about it. This is just a friendly debate. :3

--

On the other hand, are we allowing pokedex information here? Last time it was disallowed cause some of it contradicted itself seemingly, though only through generations. >.>

 

[Diddy Kong]

Current match up:

Neither have a battleship, so both lose.

EDIT:

Diddy, Ganondorf gets killed on multiple occasion and banished to sacred realm, does that mean he cannot participate in this fight? <_< Or that Sonic gets Super sonic transformation only at certain points and then loses them, means he cannot have those? >_>

True to their games, this topics purpose was to stack characters against each other when we've found what their max potential is. That means they are allowed their best equipment and items and all. It would be fairly dumb if one person gets all their items and other does not. <_< Personally, I'm here because I like this topic and these debates and all.

Ganondorf however, always comes back to life. That's more part of his character than anything else.

I dunno anything about Sonic, except that Super Sonic is supposed to be dangerous...

Okay so character's with their full potential eh? Give the Pokemon characters their Mystery Dungeon stuff like Move Linking and equipment (4 moves at once? Hell yeah!) and give Marth his orbs then (even though he loses them in order to get the Falchion...).

Giving characters their max potential is good, but in this case giving MetaKnight the Halbert just makes him WAY better than he needs to be. There are more fights without the Halbert, than with it in Kirby games. Also, it complicates things a lot. And in this case, it's just overkill and only characters with enormous "equipment" will be on the upper tiers, while other characters are just... better one vs one. >_>

I suggest making 2 tier lists. One with space ships and uber things like that, one without.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Current match up:

Neither have a battleship, so both lose.

You should stop that and read the post above yours.

 

[UncleSam]

But this version of gunship cannot land without landing site D: NOOOOO....

It's like that with all ships dude...
now if Only her command visor could command it to land.
owait

 

[Crystanium]

What other abilities does Wario have? I haven't really played any of the Wario games. Anyone have better knowledge than me?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

What other abilities does Wario have? I haven't really played any of the Wario games. Anyone have better knowledge than me?

Others have already posted the general idea of what Wario has. So yeah, that was it.

 

[Samochan]

It's like that with all ships dude...
now if Only her command visor could command it to land.
owait

But her ship is dumb and will only land on marked Landing sites and neutral terrain has none. <_< Her other ships are able to land on rough terrain and all, but other than that, she cannot use those for combat.

I say let her use her ship via command visor to shoot missiles and grapple, but other than that, nah.

--

I've been ignoring Mystery dungeon stuff, because the game mechanics there are very different from original pokemon games and it is a spin-off, after all.

Are we gonna allow pokedex info or not? :/

And if Marth has Falchion and he can only get if if he loses his orb, he won't get his orbs then. It's a tradeoff for orbs to Falchion, he cannot keep both ingame. <_<

 

[UncleSam]

you call phaaze a marked landing site?
w/e.
neither are the majority of the sites on Bryyo

 

[Samochan]

you call phaaze a marked landing site?
w/e.

Erm... glitch? =D ^^;

But otherwise her ship fails to land anywhere else besides landing sites when you use command visor. <_<;

Bryyo does have landing sites though. :/ landing sites are always clearly marked so player can recognice em.

I'm kinda two-ways here... her other ships are able to land on rough terrain and apparently this one can too, judging from Phaaze and why should it be unable to land anywhere else besides landing sites anyway, considering her profession.

However, game mechanics state her ship is unable to land anywhere without a landing site when you use Command visor. So meh. >_>

 

[Salem]

Umm...

Diddy Kong just needs to defeat the ship and than Metaknight like how Kirby did it to win.

The ship would then blow up and and show a cutscene of Diddy Kong and his nannerz. lol

Lucas's PSI auto hits flying enemies so I don't see how he lost.

 

[UncleSam]

Erm... glitch? =D ^^;

But otherwise her ship fails to land anywhere else besides landing sites when you use command visor. <_<;

Bryyo does have landing sites though. :/ landing sites are always clearly marked so player can recognice em.

it's marked a large enough place to land.
and since these MU's are done in infinite space(and land) there is room to stretch.
w/e
finish Wario and Pikachu now.

 

[Diddy Kong]

^ Exactly...

I could still see Diddy lose to MetaKnight 1 vs 1 too, but other than that I'm just mainly disagreeing about the Halbert...

Lucas has rolling HP, healing PSI, PK Love and loads of PSI shields. Falco just needs 1 hit from PK Love and it's over. How'd Lucas lose?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

^ Exactly...

I could still see Diddy lose to MetaKnight 1 vs 1 too, but other than that I'm just mainly disagreeing about the Halbert...

Lucas has rolling HP, healing PSI, PK Love and loads of PSI shields. Falco just needs 1 hit from PK Love and it's over. How'd Lucas lose?

Someone said something about it being hard to land.

 

[Salem]

Someone said something about it being hard to land.

lol

Not really, i've played the game and it didn't seem like it.
Then again I haven't played that game in a while either...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, Falco can't shoot Lucas all the time right? At one point, he'd have to make a loop or turn around. If Lucas can tank hits long enough, I bet he'd be able to figure out how Falco's gonna attack the next time and hit him before he does...

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

finish Wario and Pikachu now.

I might've missed something.. but who wins?

 

[GeneralWoodman]

pikachu is too used to a turn based fighting style and would get ***** by warios randomness

 

[Samochan]

There was no source stating Lucas's PSI autohits flying enemies. :/ PSI shield however do not work against lasers as already stated.

PK Love however, if if really homes in and autohits Falco's arwing, that would be game over even with his shields. <_> Falco can fly at Mach 4.2 though and Lucas is basically hitting flying enemies on his screen... so range might still be an issue.

I've already given my thoughts about Wario vs Pika matchup, but yea, pokedex off or on would be nice too.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Well, Falco can't shoot Lucas all the time right? At one point, he'd have to make a loop or turn around. If Lucas can tank hits long enough, I bet he'd be able to figure out how Falco's gonna attack the next time and hit him before he does...

Franklin badge doesn't reflect lasers.. from what I've heard.

 

[Salem]

There was no source stating Lucas's PSI autohits flying enemies. :/ PSI shield however do not work against lasers as already stated.

PK Love however, if if really homes in and autohits Falco's arwing, that would be game over even with his shields. <_>

I've already given my thoughts about Wario vs Pika matchup, but yea, pokedex off or on would be nice too.

Flying enemies are as same as ground enemies...