Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[justaway12]

IIRC, Mewtwo WAS in a cave in Mystery Dungeon. His role is pretty much the same as in the main games. However, he's shown to be a bit more aggressive as I saw from a video. Instead of just waiting for the "challenger" (the trainer in the main series entering the Cerulean Cave or the main character and partner in Mystery Dungeon) to appear to him at the end of the cave, he's shown to attack Blastoise and Charizard on his own accord when they entered the cave. Causing explosions everywhere and stuff. Vid is here, found it in the meanwhile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiTcRsNQ8N4 .

They WERE at the end of the cave, he attacked them when they came =/

The rest of that stuff is very vague =/
Thus further proving it's un-canon.

As for the Earthquake, yes maybe it'll hit Mewtwo but it all depends on it. Most likely, he won't float if he musn't. If he must, it's likely cause Bowser is going airbone in the Clown Car. Levitation could only be used as a second option, Mewtwo would likely prefer the ground (as opposed to Falco lolz).

He can just transport, I showed a link earliear of bowser transports in about 1 second =/
He also has a lot of distractions to keep mewtwo occupied so Bowser can turn him to stone.

It isn't as far fechted for Mewtwo to float though. He's shown to be able to do it, so why can't he? Also, Bowser's average AI is likely much worse than Mewtwo's. Mewtwo at least tries to set up when encountered in the wild, Bowser is much like "ARRGH IM GONNA WALK INTO YOU TO CAUSE YOU DAMAGE MARIO RAAWRRRRZ".

Really? =/
Cause Mewtwo hardly shows that super-intelligent OMG PSHYCHIC SOOOO SMATZ thing =/
especially because of the thinngs he can get beaten by =/

Talking about the "average" Bowser now, sometimes he does show some sence of planning, but I just remembered fighting Bowser in Super Paper Mario. **** those where some short fights.

He isn't the main boss, why would it take long.
Mewtwo's fight aren't as long either, so It isn't good to bring THEM up =/

Mewtwo learned himself moves in Stadium as well. I keep on saying this, cause.. he did. Thunderbolt and Blizzard are clearly TM moves, and wisely chosen as well. Mewtwo is a pretty cool guy. Uhh counters all types, and doesn't affraid of anything. O_O

Spoiler

lulz

He had A TRAINER! HE EMERGED FROM A POKEBALL!

Problem with Samus for example is that most of the planets where she gets her weapons from are destroyed. Yet we're skipping it all for her, cause Samus is clearly liked a lot. I like her to, so I've got no complains but... it could all be countered as well.

No, we are giving EVERYONE powers if they had ACCESS TO IT!

If we apply the same rules Mewtwo gets to Bowser, Bowser first needs to plan a great invasion of the Star Haven to get his Star Rod back, as he loses it canoncially at the end of Paper Mario right? I don't care if he gets it on his own accord or not, cause in the end he also needs to get it right back from the Star Haven to use it. And he most likely can't...

Great plan of invasion? Where do people get there facts from :l
He burst in with a magickoopa and stole it quickly.
Yeah, great invasion!

So I say, we skip the "logic" and give characters all their moves which aren't back up.

We aren't skipping logic =/
That's why we banned unbreakable items
That's why we allowed stealing =/
It's obvious it COULD happen, but it didn't =/

, most likely by using the same logic Mewtwo or any other pPokemon can't have TMs we must assume these Pokemon first go look for Heart Scales to have that one fat guy learn them their moves back right?

Yeah, because they can just go to him, and he won't have ANY problems right :/
He probably won't give them to wild pokemon :l

 

[Ray_Kalm]

What do we have on the current match-up so far? I'm trying to pop myself in here somewhere.

 

[justaway12]

Mario can ultra jump past the pokemon killin Pokemon trainer.

 

[DoonKoon]

Red can use a flying type Pokemon.

 

[justaway12]

And? If that Pokemon is usin fly, it needs to consentrate for one turn.

If not then Mario jumps over that...

 

[DoonKoon]

And? If that Pokemon is usin fly, it needs to consentrate for one turn.

If not then Mario jumps over that...

That Pokemon could prevent Mario from going any further. Dunno which one to choose, which Pokemons can red have?

 

[Samochan]

I know, let's have a gardevoir in there. =) (swarm pokemon on HGSS)

Gardevoir can see/predict the future, so if Mario is in there, about to ultra jump onto it's trainer and thus killing him, gardevoir uses all it's psychic powers to prevent such thing from happening and disorts dimensions, creating a small black hole that would suck in Mario.

"Gardevoir has the psychokinetic power to distort the dimensions and create a small black hole. This Pokémon will try to protect its Trainer even at the risk of its own life. "

Gardy can also be the first pokemon on Red's party, thus outside pokeball yellow and hgsss style.

Edit: Lol at stuff breaking canon.

Mario breaks canon on super mario 64 because he can now triple jump instead of normally jumping once. Whoppee!

Paper mario breaks canon cause he can now flip sideways on 3D plane.

MP3: Corruption breaks canon, because Samus can now grapple to shields and metallic objects instead of just grapple swing points or glider.

Gardevoir breaks canon in a canon game by levitating, but still getting hit by eq (roflmao)

et cetera.

 

[justaway12]

Mario faced small black holes before, he can just run away.

After that, she would probably be too tired to attack.

edit: ****! My computers going to slow today, I won't be able to answer a lot of questions

 

[missingnomaster]

Too bad Red can only start with one pokemon out. 6 Onix would make for an awesome defense (Steelix are weak to fire)

I'm not gonna support the Gardevoir black hole thing since I don't support the pokedex.

As far as I'm concerned, Mario wins because Ultra Jump is really quick.

 

[Samochan]

Mario faced small black holes before, he can just run away.

After that, she would probably be too tired to attack.

edit: ****! My computers going to slow today, I won't be able to answer a lot of questions

Mario running away when's he's in the middle of a jump? >_> Hmmm... not.

Mario gets sucked in by very many black holes in Galaxy if you are not careful with your jumps. =)

And it's not just your comp, but crashboards. -__-

 

[justaway12]

He can run away in the middle of a jump, he did it before.

He runs away from black hole in Super Paper Mario.

Besides, he flys off-screen, probably too the clouds.
She would probably the black holes up-close.

Oh and won't she be sucked up?
I'm pretty sure you mentioned that before.

 

[Samochan]

He can run away in the middle of a jump, he did it before.

He runs away from black hole in Super Paper Mario.

Besides, he flys off-screen, probably too the clouds.
She would probably the black holes up-close.

Oh and won't she be sucked up?
I'm pretty sure you mentioned that before.

Isn't that what we'd call, breaking the canon? >_>

You say he can just run away in the middle of a jump on Super Paper Mario.

Yet, on Super Mario Galaxy, if you mistime your jump, you are sucked into the black hole, no questions asked.

I get the feeling of deja vu here. =)

And in order for Mario to get at trainer, he needs to make physical contact with ultra jump.

Gardevoir can predict future, so it doesn't exacly matter where she puts her black hole thing. It only matters to Gardy that it can protect it's trainer and musters all strenght to be able to do that without failing.

And why would gardy be sucked in by her own phychic powers? >_> I've made no mention of such.

 

[justaway12]

Yeah, in earliear, I'll get back to that.

Anyway, it isn't breaking canon, Count Bleck made a black-hole, that could be exactly like Gardevoir since we never have seen how it is made, it's would be safe to assume that man/pokemon-made blackhole aren't as big or powerful as natural, unless you want everyone to be sucked up

 

[missingnomaster]

Now that I think about it, I don't think WhatisRaizen has said anything about the Pokedex.
Should it be allowed? It isn't supported by anything in the game, and makes some contradictory and incredible statements.

 

[Samochan]

Now that I think about it, I don't think WhatisRaizen has said anything about the Pokedex.
Should it be allowed? It isn't supported by anything in the game, and makes some contradictory and incredible statements.

Pokedex is supported by million things in game. >_>

Even Arceus being the God of pokemon. You can take event Arceus in HGSS to a cave and omg, create a pokemon. Watch the fancy scene here how.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGs-ZSyBykQ (only arceus scene)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvYjbHv8-4o (full thingy)

http://serebii.net/heartgoldsoulsilver/arceus.shtml

Pokemons are certainly amazing no?

I kinda doubt it gets more incredible than that lol.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Now that I think about it, I don't think WhatisRaizen has said anything about the Pokedex.
Should it be allowed? It isn't supported by anything in the game, and makes some contradictory and incredible statements.

I'll leave that for you guys to decide.

 

[Technologikall]

Can't Gardenvoir just use protect or something or Psychic in the direction that Mario is going to be?

If he can predict the future then it must be easy.
And the Pokedex is canon. So I think we should count that....

 

[justaway12]

Raizen, I answered you back, you still haven't put a rebuttal for the star spirits.

Remeber, if someone does any move OTHER than Embaro, they are going to get frozen.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Raizen, I answered you back, you still haven't put a rebuttal for the star spirits.

Remeber, if someone does any move OTHER than Embaro, they are going to get frozen.

Mario calls the stars, he does not summon them.

 

[missingnomaster]

Pokedex is supported by million things in game. >_>

Even Arceus being the God of pokemon. You can take event Arceus in HGSS to a cave and omg, create a pokemon. Watch the fancy scene here how.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGs-ZSyBykQ (only arceus scene)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvYjbHv8-4o

http://serebii.net/heartgoldsoulsilver/arceus.shtml

Pokemons are certainly amazing no?

I kinda doubt it gets more incredible than that lol.

Ok, Arceus is supported by it some, but looks at some of the things the Pokedex says...
-Charizard:"A CHARIZARD flies about in search of strong opponents. It breathes intense flames that can melt any material. However, it will never torch a weaker foe."
-Dusclops:"DUSCLOPS absorbs anything, however large the object may be. This POKéMON hypnotizes its foe by waving its hands in a macabre manner and by bringing its single eye to bear. The hypnotized foe is made to do DUSCLOPS's bidding."
-Gyarados:"It has an extremely aggressive nature. The HYPER BEAM it shoots from its mouth totally incinerates all targets. "

infinity paradox...

 

[justaway12]

Mario calls the stars, he does not summon them.

He doesn't call the stars, he summons them, it's exactly the same, it's obviously magic because of the glitter come out of his body.

 

[Samochan]

Ok, Arceus is supported by it some, but looks at some of the things the Pokedex says...
-Charizard:"A CHARIZARD flies about in search of strong opponents. It breathes intense flames that can melt any material. However, it will never torch a weaker foe."
-Dusclops:"DUSCLOPS absorbs anything, however large the object may be. This POKéMON hypnotizes its foe by waving its hands in a macabre manner and by bringing its single eye to bear. The hypnotized foe is made to do DUSCLOPS's bidding."
-Gyarados:"It has an extremely aggressive nature. The HYPER BEAM it shoots from its mouth totally incinerates all targets. "

infinity paradox...

What is paradoxal anymore when Arceus is the creator of universe, fully supported by Sinnoh mytology and Pokedex? Yet in gameplay itself pokemon trainer can both capture this pokemon and his own pokemon can survive judgement. >_> And lol at supported some... cripes, you get a fanmade-like awesome scene of Arceus creating a legendary pokemon out of nothing and basically the amount of power Acreus has is displayed on the imagery.

All the above are not included into the gameplay for GAMEPLAY reasons. Or do you suppose only Gyara hyper beam = ohko everything = good gameplay?

Story > game mechanics anyway lulz. Unless Mario getting health from swimming makes any logical sense...

Anyways... the charizard entry is retconned, later it is told Chari can melt boulders with it's intense flame. Or simply told to melt any material in the Pokeverse or just told so the player gets an image of an intensely powerful flame. Same for dusclops: "Its body is entirely hollow. When it opens its mouth, it sucks everything in as if it were a black hole. " Your entry doesn't say how it absorbs, so it's not exacly contradiction either. Gyarados is the same as Chari, you get an image of intensely powerful hyper beam.

Besides, one occurence (that's ****ing incredible and amazing display of powers pokemon can have) should be quite enough to prove Pokedex is a canon source anyway. >_> But there are many occurences like this.

 

[PowerBomb]

The story is proven by gameplay.

Dialga, Palkia, and Arceus are said to have those powers. Creation of something does not mean something is a god.

Oh look! I can create Carbon Dioxide by exhaling! I'm totally a god!

Not to mention the in-game stats screws with the Pokedex. What's this Jolteon has more Speed than Arceus? Jolteon must be better than Arceus in terms of speed. Godly, no?

Look at all of the Pokemon who out-do Arceus in one or more stats. Would they be godly? The pokedex is just... bah. It messes up the game.

I'm also too lazy to read what happened. Why is PS used? RBY were remade into FrLg, which can connect to Colosseum, which shows Mewtwo not floating and being hit by EQ.

EDIT: You might get an image of an Uber Hyper Beam, but it doesn't OHKO things and as such, it contradicts the Dex.

 

[missingnomaster]

What is paradoxal anymore when Arceus is the creator of universe, fully supported by Sinnoh mytology and Pokedex? Yet in gameplay itself pokemon trainer can both capture this pokemon and his own pokemon can survive judgement. >_> And lol at supported some... cripes, you get a fanmade-like awesome scene of Arceus creating a legendary pokemon out of nothing and basically the amount of power Acreus has is displayed on the imagery.

All the above are not included into the gameplay for GAMEPLAY reasons. Or do you suppose only Gyara hyper beam = ohko everything = good gameplay?

Story > game mechanics anyway lulz. Unless Mario getting health from swimming makes any logical sense...

Anyways... the charizard entry is retconned, later it is told Chari can melt boulders with it's intense flame. Or simply told to melt any material in the Pokeverse or just told so the player gets an image of an intensely powerful flame. Same for dusclops: "Its body is entirely hollow. When it opens its mouth, it sucks everything in as if it were a black hole. " Your entry doesn't say how it absorbs, so it's not exacly contradiction either. Gyarados is the same as Chari, you get an image of intensely powerful hyper beam.

ok, Arceus is an exception. Happy?

You're wrong about Charizard.(like the previous person who used that argument) I posted Emerald's entry. The 4th gen entry does not mention how hot his fire is.

For Dusclops, combine the 2 entries and you have have it absorbs things, and how powerful the absorbing is.

Gyarados' entry says that it incinerates everything though. Not just being intensely powerful.

 

[justaway12]

Aren't gods like...omnipotent >_>

 

[missingnomaster]

Aren't gods like...omnipotent >_>

Depends on what is considered a god.

Pokemon's "god" can be defeated by a level 1 Ratata.

 

[justaway12]

All-powerful, can't be beaten etc.

I thought that was the general basis for gods...

 

[PowerBomb]

Arceus can also be defeated by a level 1 Starly and Phanpy.

 

[Samochan]

The story is proven by gameplay.

Dialga, Palkia, and Arceus are said to have those powers. Creation of something does not mean something is a god.

Oh look! I can create Carbon Dioxide by exhaling! I'm totally a god!

Not to mention the in-game stats screws with the Pokedex. What's this Jolteon has more Speed than Arceus? Jolteon must be better than Arceus in terms of speed. Godly, no?

Look at all of the Pokemon who out-do Arceus in one or more stats. Would they be godly? The pokedex is just... bah. It messes up the game.

I'm also too lazy to read what happened. Why is PS used? RBY were remade into FrLg, which can connect to Colosseum, which shows Mewtwo not floating and being hit by EQ.

EDIT: You might get an image of an Uber Hyper Beam, but it doesn't OHKO things and as such, it contradicts the Dex.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvYjbHv8-4o
...

You try to create living being out of nothingness then. I wanna see you try that. >_> Arceus is said to have those powers and he certainly has, as proven by the game on both the Arceus event and Pokedex and Sinnoh mythology.

And besides, the pokemon game is gameplay. Or do you mean when I move my character around, now I'm somehow not playing the actual game? That's not gameplay? Or when a cutscene happens, that's not gameplay either? Not part of the stupid game?

How ridiculous, listen to yourself.

Battling system is only part of the pokemon game. You're trying to tell me here more than half of this game is non canon cause it's not battling other pokemon.

Pokedex takes no part in making that Arceus scene work in anyway, yet it fully supports it.

Arceus is level 80 pokemon lol, try and beat it with lv 1 pokes. =)

And doesn't that just prove what I'm saying here, that pokemon gameplay aka game mechanics and it's limitations << story? Arceus scene certainly doesn't lie.

 

[missingnomaster]

Many level 100 Arceus sets can be beaten quite easily by level 1 Ratata, Phanpy, Smeargle, and a few others.

 

[PowerBomb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvYjbHv8-4o
...

You try to create living being out of nothingness then. I wanna see you try that. >_> Arceus is said to have those powers and he certainly has, as proven by the game on both the Arceus event and Pokedex and Sinnoh mythology.

No, I mean like Gyarados.

And besides, the pokemon game is gameplay. Or do you mean when I move my character around, now I'm somehow not playing the actual game? That's not gameplay? Or when a cutscene happens, that's not gameplay either? Not part of the stupid game?

How ridiculous, listen to yourself.

*facepalm*
I meant in terms of the 'Dex... since it's like, not really proven for some Pokemon.

Battling system is only part of the pokemon game. You're trying to tell me here more than half of this game is non canon cause it's not battling other pokemon.

Already addressed.

Pokedex takes no part in making that Arceus scene work in anyway, yet it fully supports it.

Arceus is level 80 pokemon lol, try and beat it with lv 1 pokes. =)

Easy. Ratata + Focus Sash + Endeavor + Quick Attack. GG

And doesn't that just prove what I'm saying here, that pokemon gameplay < story? Arceus scene certainly doesn't lie.

Already addressed. Besides, that still doesn't prove his a god. He's said to be a god. Making things doesn't mean he's a god. He's not omnipotent nor omniscient either. Lol, the GOD of Pogeymanz being controlled by a 10 year-old child.

 

[Samochan]

Many level 100 Arceus sets can be beaten quite easily by level 1 Ratata, Phanpy, Smeargle, and a few others.

And yet such sets are very easily predicted and owned right back.

 

[PowerBomb]

Not usually.

Not many players expect that. Especially in Uber battles >_>

Smeargle for example, can Spore on the attack and then Endeavor + Shadow/Quick Attack.

ALSO, ARCEUS SETS DON'T USUALLY RUN SUB

 

[missingnomaster]

And how does Arceus being supported by the Pokedex prove that the Pokedex is entirely valid anyway?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

You could say that the Pokedex is non-canon. But then again, you would also be saying that there is no storyline behind all these Pokemon.

 

[Samochan]

Not usually.

Not many players expect that. Especially in Uber battles >_>

Smeargle for example, can Spore on the attack and then Endeavor + Shadow/Quick Attack.

ALSO, ARCEUS SETS DON'T RUN SUB

Rofl lv1 pokemon sicked at you = those endeavor sets.

And how does Arceus being supported by the Pokedex prove that the Pokedex is entirely valid anyway?

Pokedex supports many things happening on the story, for example Mewtwo being engineered in Cinnabar laboratory and being savage in nature. So it's not only Arceus.

Game mechanics are limited to make the game actually playable. Unless you want a bad and broken game. Story is always needed to expand the game experience. However, you are now saying Pokemon storyline, created by Satoshi tajiri and friends is not canon, meaning whatever happens in the games that's not an actual battle is uncanon.

Oooh and let's see... samus being a super athlete is not canon, cause you don't kick pirate arse on MZM when you go into the ship, even though this same thing is stated in the manual of the game and even trophy of brawl.

Sonic cannot run at the speed of sound cause he doesn't do so ingame. Hmm...

There are bazillion instances like this.

Game mechanics have their limits and shouldn't be considered canon information above storyline because of this, obviously. We shouldn't disregard storylines in favour of game mechanics, which get really ridiculous. >_>

*looks at mario regaining health from swimming*

 

[PowerBomb]

My head hurts. Bah

There's a storyline in the gameplay. You get your first Pokemon, defeat a few gyms, defeat the respective Gang of the region, get one more badge, beat Pokemon league.

Pokedex supports many things happening on the story, for example Mewtwo being engineered in Cinnabar laboratory and being savage in nature. So it's not only Arceus.

Game mechanics are limited to make the game actually playable. Unless you want a bad and broken game. Story is always needed to expand the game experience. However, you are now saying Pokemon storyline, created by Satoshi tajiri and friends is not canon, meaning whatever happens in the games that's not an actual battle is uncanon.

Oooh and let's see... samus being a super athlete is not canon, cause you don't kick pirate arse on MZM when you go into the ship, even though this same thing is stated in the manual of the game and even trophy of brawl.

There are bazillion instances like this.

Game mechanics have their limits and shouldn't be considered canon information above storyline because of this, obviously. We shouldn't disregard storylines. >_>

Wasn't it said only some were alright while others were just lolwut?
Samus is a Super Athlete cause of the way she jumps up and down walls and doesn't get hurt when she falls all the way down. >_>
If it's stated in the manual...

EDIT: YEAH, BECAUSE THE ANIME IS FULL OF ****!
Seriously, it is. It just lol's at the games.

Lol, the anime disproves the Pokedex at times.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

My head hurts. Bah

There's a storyline in the gameplay. You get your first Pokemon, defeat a few gyms, defeat the respective Gang of the region, get one more badge, beat Pokemon league.

That doesn't seem like much of a story.

If Pokedex isn't canon then the storyline of Pokemon is also not canon, is what you're saying.

 

[Samochan]

EDIT: YEAH, BECAUSE THE ANIME IS FULL OF ****!
Seriously, it is. It just lol's at the games.

Lol, the anime disproves the Pokedex at times.

I wasn't speaking of anime. =)

Where did I mention anime? =)

And anime supports pokedex and the storyline on pokemon on many occasion, but obviously as it's anime, it expands it or simply does stuff on it's own. It's not restricted in extremes. Raizen even posted cross-referencing list at some point.

Did you know anime has the same creator as the pokemon games or that anime solely uses the games as reference?

 

[missingnomaster]

Pokedex is seperate from the story.

Also, there is no Pokemon world because my Dusclops just absorbed it.