Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[PowerBomb]

Except Samus isn't fully invincible while using the Screw attack or Speed booster...she is just immune to touch harm...and touch harm is a game mech. anyway...so...unless you want to say that it is canon that Samus is hurt by touching things...you really have to debunk the invincibility factor

Dude, the game manual even says the Speed Booster is invincible. Screw isn't invincible, it just has high defense.

How do you think things like Hypnosis and PK Flash work?

Hell he has proof of them in game as well...from things like meeting Poo to just talking with animals/things that aren't human...

Everyone talks to animals in that game...
I thought you were meaning that telepathically lifting enemies and slamming them into walls or something.

@MU: Samus wins this. What can Pokemon Trainer really do? I mean, one shot from her Arm Cannon and Pokemon Trainer dies. Plasma Beam lol's at everything in between.

 

[missingnomaster]

plasma wave beam leaves Red defenseless. This is one of his worst matchups.

 

[_clinton]

Dude, the game manual even says the Speed Booster is invincible. Screw isn't invincible, it just has high defense.

The game manual says she is invincible to "enemy contact" actually if you are looking at Super Metroid...however there are newer Metroid games out there that use the speed booster (Metroid remake, and Metroid Fusion)...that have given more detail about the thing...and they say other wise...they don't bring up invincibility at all...they just point out that she is moving at supersonic speed...which is why she "seems" like she is invincible...because guess what happens when you move at supersonic speed? Guess what you make?

Everyone talks to animals in that game...
I thought you were meaning that telepathically lifting enemies and slamming them into walls or something.

Actually the only person who talks with animals in that game is Jeff...and his is very much up for debate...A. He had Paula and Ness with him spiritually...because Paula can do that...B. The stuff Jeff talks about with the monkey is nothing special...in fact...the monkey doesn't even lessen to Jeff that much...remember it is the only NPC that joins you that doesn't just out right follow you around...

Jeff has food that it likes...Therefore I can see it only following Jeff because he was giving it food...

Also...I like how you assume that everyone talks with animals...when the games canon has stated more than one time...that talking with animals IS a telepathic power in the series...
1. Mother 1...it's flat out said that talking with animals is a psychic power right at the start of the game pretty much (you have to talk with the dog)
2. Mother 2...King's speach and the other animals speech is written in a parenthetical phrase...usually when something like that happens it means something don't you think? The only character that says other wise is Jeff...and guess what...I already explained my view to it...
3. Mother 3...Alec flat out says when you get him in chapter 1 that his psychic friends can chat with "whatever" as in it's not normal

Oh and please get the definition of things right...telepathy is by far different than telekinesis

 

[PowerBomb]

_clinton, guess what happens when Samus hits through every enemy and beyond while Speed Boosting?
If she wasn't invincible, it would hurt her (a bit at the very least), considering the speed at which she's smashing into things.

Speed Boost into magma; the jets of fire don't hurt you at all. Enemy projectiles don't hurt you...

Nothing does. It's total invincibility.

 

[Lovely]

Mewtwo can make mind blasts that cut like a sword if we are going phys. in our chats...

Are you sure, he hasn't done that even in the Pokemon moves? I think Meta Knight vs Mewtwo went way too fast if it ended like that. Metal Mask of Meta Knight can make it harder to use psychic mind attacks.

Samus should know what to deal with vs the Pokemon Trainer. ;3

 

[missingnomaster]

_clinton was talking about Psycho Cut.

 

[Lovely]

He said a mind blast attack that cuts like a blade, Psycho Cut should be on Mewtwo's four-arm or hand. It might be another attack.

 

[_clinton]

_clinton, guess what happens when Samus hits through every enemy and beyond while Speed Boosting?
If she wasn't invincible, it would hurt her (a bit at the very least), considering the speed at which she's smashing into things.

Um...no she is creating a Sonic boom while using that move because of how fast she is moving...she isn't going be hurt at all only because of that...its the same principles behind Sonic's super sonic speed and the **** he does with it if you need another example...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_boom

When an object passes through the air, it creates a series of pressure waves in front of it and behind it, similar to the bow and stern waves created by a boat. These waves travel at the speed of sound, and as the speed of the object increases, the waves are forced together, or compressed, because they cannot "get out of the way" of each other, eventually merging into a single shock wave at the speed of sound.

All the evidence points to just Samus causing a sonic boom...the sound for example...have you not noticed that?

I like how you ignore the logical definition for that type of thing in favor of what you want it to be...I mean...what is up with that?

Speed Boost into magma; the jets of fire don't hurt you at all. Enemy projectiles don't hurt you...

How about you try running into an area with the speed booster while not wearing the varia suit where its needed and see what happens in that area still while under the effect of the speed booster?

Nothing does. It's total invincibility.

No...its only total invincibility in your mind...the game instruction books that came out after Super Metroid blow though your whole total invincibility as well I might add...because they tell you what it is...but hey...how about you just look at the instruction books for the games that have the speed booster?

http://metroid-database.com/m4/mfmanual.txt
http://metroid.retropixel.net/metroidzm/manual/mzm_14.jpg

See...only a supersonic speed...nothing about total invincibility in these newer than Super Metroid games (production order matters btw in case you didn't know)

Hell those books are by far more clear than what is said in the Super Metroid one...that one just say she runs really fast and she is somehow invincible to enemy contact damage because of it...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6166428/Super-Metroid-Manual

2:1...and my 2 are newer than your 1...which also isn't very clear as well I might add

So again...How is Samus going to take Ness/Lucas' TK and telepathy for the 90th time? (Oh and Bowser as well)

 

[Diddy Kong]

By Speed Boosting alone, Samus has a big advantage against the Mother kids. Samus is an overall better warrior than both, and has better offensive options.

In this match up, Speed Booster will likely make her win as well. But seeing as it probably takes time for Samus to pull off, she can be kept out or the Trainer's range by attacks like Surf. If preformed by something like Kyogre, it'd do a good amount of damage against Samus. Lugia with Whirlwind could keep Samus away from the Trainer as well. Kyogre and Lugia defending the Trainer with both having Protect will make it difficult for Samus.

 

[missingnomaster]

No strategy is needed for Samus to win against PT. All she needs to do is fire a Plasma Wave stacked shot.

 

[Samochan]

All samus needs is going into Hypermode. No pokemon can touch that, so even mind reader + sheer cold would be ineffective against her. Then charge up beam and fire bursts of phazon/hyper missile at PT for instakill, PT's a totally normal kid so... and the pokes aren't gonna be too happy either.

Or just use imperialist and headshot PT. Or speed boost + screw attack spacejump combo... or Plasma beam through all the pokes...or boost ball past pokes and drop a power bomb at his feet...

Yea, samus has this matchup in the bag.

 

[Lovely]

Ghost Pokemon might not be harmed by Phazon, (lol, Chozo Ghost), but that won't be much of a bother for Samus unless the Pokemon Trainer get's every powerful legendary.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

So, basically Samus can beat anyone outside those with invincibility, and then somehow she will still win?

 

[Samochan]

Ghost Pokemon might not be harmed by Phazon, (lol, Chozo Ghost), but that won't be much of a bother for Samus unless the Pokemon Trainer get's every powerful legendary.

But ghosts are harmed by other types of beam weaponry. =) Though ghosts in pokemon are only really immune to fightning and normal types of attacks, aka physical. Phazon is organic matter and well, kinda physical, but it's still a beam and radioactive substance. Phazon is also the very thing that made chozo's ghosts go crazy in the first place, so even they are not immune to phazon effects. In any case, ghosts are not immune to her other weaponry. =)

And not like ghosts could protect PT much anyway if phazon doesn't harm 'em, they'd need to be intangible for phazon to be ineffective and then it would just go through them and hit PT. =D

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Samus wins cause of the reasons stated above. Next MU?

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Why can't the poke trainer ride on something using extreme speed/agility or teleport on abra or something? Is phazon super fast too?

 

[BSP]

Why can't the poke trainer ride on something using extreme speed/agility or teleport on abra or something? Is phazon super fast too?

If he teleports away, i think we're considering that a loss now. For that reason, he'd have to teleport near samus to actually have a chance to hit her. Samus simply turns and shoots him, or she could even charge him with the speed booster and he'd have to keep dodging until he gets hit (which will happen in PT's case). Basically, there's nothing PT can do to harm samus without exposing himself to being defeated.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Well i meant just Teleport around this clearing their in, does Samus have infinite...ammo? (do we call it that)

 

[Ray_Kalm]

^ In short, Samus is basically too fast and too quick for Pokemon Trainer, and his Pokemons, to do anything. One hit from Samus means death.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

but I don' understand why we have to assume She wuill hit the pokemon trainer. Why isn't teleport dodging a viable option?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOwBYGy3qns

Around 24 seconds of that video shows that it takes a while for teleport to take effect.

 

[Lovely]

But ghosts are harmed by other types of beam weaponry. =) Though ghosts in pokemon are only really immune to fightning and normal types of attacks, aka physical. Phazon is organic matter and well, kinda physical, but it's still a beam and radioactive substance. Phazon is also the very thing that made chozo's ghosts go crazy in the first place, so even they are not immune to phazon effects. In any case, ghosts are not immune to her other weaponry. =)

And not like ghosts could protect PT much anyway if phazon doesn't harm 'em, they'd need to be intangible for phazon to be ineffective and then it would just go through them and hit PT. =D

Ahem, I said might not be. ;p

Pokemon Trainer would be away from harms way on their battle, at least that's what most Pokemon Trainers do on a battle, so the Pokemon would mostly be Samus vs 1 or 2 of Pokemon Trainer's six Pokemon. I'm not sure if there are Pokemon restrictions, a handful full ledgendarys will be a problem to every character in Smash Bros.

Well i meant just Teleport around this clearing their in, does Samus have infinite...ammo? (do we call it that)

Only weaponry she needs ammo in would be Missiles, Dark Beam, and Light Beam, anything else should be infinite.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

To add to my last post; Samus can attack multiple times during the start-up of teleport.

 

[BSP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOwBYGy3qns

Around 24 seconds of that video shows that it takes a while for teleport to take effect.

PT is either dead or seriously injured by this time, he can't do anything.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Am I too assume Extremespeed will be shut down by somethig as well?

 

[BSP]

Am I too assume Extremespeed will be shut down by somethig as well?

Samus has speed booster, letting her run at super sonic speed(while invincible). i doubt extreme speed goes that fast, but i could be wrong.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Am I too assume Extremespeed will be shut down by somethig as well?

ExtremeSpeed (しんそく Godspeed) is a damage-dealing Normal-type move introduced in Generation II.

It seems ExtremeSpeed can only be used to deal damage, and it's also very limited.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Well i can't find an exact speed, and it looks like I'm not gonna change any minds so we'll move on to Snake vs. Lucario.

Technically it's a high priority move that allows it go before any other attck, which would give the impression of it being an extermely fasst move (hardy har) but that would be delving into game mechanics, no?)

The user charges the foe at blinding speed. This attack always goes before any other move.--In game description, though blinding speed isn't terribly revealing

EDIT_ Plus everyhting Diddy Kong stated below. Pokemon Trainer has many options that are too quickly overlooked

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

So, Samus? Alright then. Last match-up of round 3.

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
THE SOLID SOLIDER Vs. THE AURA BEAST

Snake Vs. Lucario

Vs.

Round 3, Match 11.

Who will win? YOU decide!

Overall Results

Wins +3:

, , ,

Wins +2:

, , ,

Wins +1:

, , , , , , , :mewtwo:

Neutral:

, , , , ,

Loss -1:

, , , , , , , , , , , ichu:

Loss -2:

,

Loss -3:

, , ,

 

[Diddy Kong]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOwBYGy3qns

Around 24 seconds of that video shows that it takes a while for teleport to take effect.

Yeah, but Stop Watch also doesn't come out instantly. Infact, it will take about 10 full seconds for it to activate. =/ How come that's still valid then?

Speed Boosting or not, I'm thinking Samus might still be able to get pushed away by Whirlwind or Surf, or still get OHKO'd by Fissure. And how well would Samus be able to handle Toxic?

Whirlwind at least deffinatly would keep Samus out of range, and Screw Attack doesn't mean full invincibility. Speed Boosting could be avoided with Fly. If Pokemon Trainer uses Kyogre and Lugia for protection... Samus will still have a difficult time.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Yeah, but Stop Watch also doesn't come out instantly. Infact, it will take about 10 full seconds for it to activate. =/ How come that's still valid then?

Speed Boosting or not, I'm thinking Samus might still be able to get pushed away by Whirlwind or Surf, or still get OHKO'd by Fissure. And how well would Samus be able to handle Toxic?

Whirlwind at least deffinatly would keep Samus out of range, and Screw Attack doesn't mean full invincibility. Speed Boosting could be avoided with Fly. If Pokemon Trainer uses Kyogre and Lugia for protection... Samus will still have a difficult time.

Stop watch takes 10 seconds to come out? I was told it was alot faster.

I'll let Dryn answer the other part of your post.

 

[BSP]

Yeah, but Stop Watch also doesn't come out instantly. Infact, it will take about 10 full seconds for it to activate. =/ How come that's still valid then?

? Stopwatch only takes about four seconds.

 

[Samochan]

To note, pokemon trainer needs to be on the field to give actual commands. It doesn't do that one half of the participants of one matchup is in some sorta safe haven for whatever reason. >_> The pokes need to hear his commands too. Extremespeed won't hurt much from any poke anyway with gravity's 75% damage reduction, Samus can take meta-ridley's charge and Omega pirate's swipe no biggie, nor can extremespeed avoid her homing attacks infinitely (just try to dodge super missile/wavebuster/annihilator/anything of hers that homes). Extremespeed also has kinda low pp and in order to avoid anything, it would need to be used all the time to avoid her beam shots, speed booster and whatever. Extremespeed carrying is not very reliable however in terms of not getting hit and probably not even possible, it's not meant to be used as a carrying around method and with a load on your back, a pokemon would prolly be able to extremespeed in any case.

Ice spreader > Lugia. Homes in and super effective and frozen solid yauhz (unless using safeguard, but the damage is still enormous). Sheer cold is ineffective against invincibility in general and sucks in accuracy and if PT rides on Lugia, samus can go space jumping around and avoid any surfing, fissuring or anything done alltogether unless Kyogre is using thunder, but screw attack would repel thunder as it's an electromagnetic field around her, never seen her getting hurt by electric attacks while screw attacking. Not to mention screw attack + hypermode. =)

I dunno bout toxic... but Samus is capable of dumping herself into phazon and lava on prime 1 and getting her life force stolen away by metroids, then barbled war wasps basically shoot noxious things at her, alongside venom weeds, poisonous water and all those, so it would be safe to say toxic would do little to no damage to her and wouldn't actually poison her due to her suit.

 

[Kewkky]

There is no pokemon that can use Surf, Fly, Toxic and Extremespeed, so having all of those at the same time is pretty much impossible (unless it's Mew).

What if Samus started aboard her ship, and carpet bombed everything? Or, what if Samus simple runs around and shoots Sonicbooms (like in Echoes), what could PT possibly do to protect himself from that? What about if she shoots all of the pokemon with the Imperialist, they'd all be OHKOd. And, how can she be OHKO'd while she's in Hyper Mode? She could be in there for quite a while, considering the amount of time you can keep HyperMode on with all the energy tanks... A charged HyperMode shot would mean she's getting a phazon minigun, and as Samus has shown you in her games, even with a drable armor like the Varia suit, Phazon is very dangerous and acts like Pokemon's Toxic move, as well as FF12's Sap (nonstop damage)... And also, her Plasma Beam would make it so that her shots go through opponents, damaging their internal organs... And with Ice Beam, it would mean damaging AND FREEZING their insides. How can something survive that?

***and above poster's statements included***


There was no way that PT could win. 100% chance of winning for Samus, she's too powerful..

 

[PowerBomb]

Are you guys seriously thinking that Toxic will hurt Samus?

Think about this for a second. She's in her Suit... I doubt the Suit can get poisoned by...toxic.

Fissure can be avoided by jumping. Sheer Cold has bad accuracy unless Mind Reader is used, but invincibility...

EDIT: I know this is late, but _clinton, you can't Speed Boost while immersed in magma. Gravity Suit is needed. Unless you cheat the game and do what I did to test that out, cause that doesn't work normally.

 

[missingnomaster]

You guys put to much thought into that matchup.

All Samus needs to do is fire one Plasma-Wave beam shot. Red loses.

Current Matchup: My vote goes to Snake because of his massively superior firepower.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Last comment on Samus vs the trainer, what would happen if Samus got Embargo'd (for the lack of a better word)? I don't think such a match up should be closed so quickly, but that's just me I guess. <_< I think Whirlwind would stop Speed Booster at least.

As of Snake vs Lucario... This one's hard. Unlike missignomaster, I'm actually leaning towards Lucario here. Could as well be a draw. It all depends on who attacks first.

 

[PowerBomb]

Embargo wouldn't work against Samus.

She's not really giving herself items and the Suit is biologically integrated into her (Something along those lines).

Like with Marowak, he doesn't stop using Bonemerang after being Embargo'd. Samus isn't holding her Suit either, she's wearing it. I know this will be brought up with the Choice Scarf's and Specs, but when you give an item to a Pokemon, they always will HOLD it, not wear it (game description).

 

[Diddy Kong]

Embargo might make missiles malfunction..? It's not completely impossible to corrupt Samus' suit. Still, that'd leave the Plasma Beam there... PT loses this pretty badly yeah.

Exactly what weapons does Snake have? Fire works good against Lucario's Steel type...

 

[PowerBomb]

Embargo might make missiles malfunction..? It's not completely impossible to corrupt Samus' suit. Still, that'd leave the Plasma Beam there... PT loses this pretty badly yeah.

Exactly what weapons does Snake have? Fire works good against Lucario's Steel type...

Infinite ammo Rapid Fire Rocket Launcher?