Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I think Sname's defensive options (Mines, C4, Claymores, Etc.) would guard against Lucario getting close for his physical attacks. And his offensive options are equal if not superior to Lucario's

Wait...One last thing with PT...Focus sash/endure with mirror coat against the plasma beam?

 

[missingnomaster]

I think Sname's defensive options (Mines, C4, Claymores, Etc.) would guard against Lucario getting close for his physical attacks. And his offensive options are equal if not superior to Lucario's

Wait...One last thing with PT...Focus sash/endure with mirror coat against the plasma beam?

If Red dies, the match is over going by current rules.

Plasma Beam goes right through the pokemon using those tactics.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

So endure/focus sash wouldn't let the pokemon survive, despite it's use being to allow the pokemon to survive? It would survive the intial blow of the attack and launch a counter mirror coated attack which has greater power than the attack being reversed, and fromt he sound of it, Plasma beam is ****.

 

[missingnomaster]

Red is not a pokemon.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Is he allowed to have more than one of the field at once?

 

[missingnomaster]

Of course. Though whether he can start with more than 1 already out is debatable.


But all Samus has to do is fire a Plasma Beam.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Well if there are multiple, One can use some sort of avoidance maneuvar (strong pokemon with agility, extremespeed, etc.) and the other enduring/focus sashing + Mirror coating the plasma beam?

 

[missingnomaster]

Samus can fire very quickly. And she has no reason to aim for any of the pokemon unless they are obstructing her view. Though thermal visor may be able to help with that.

 

[PowerBomb]

Well if there are multiple, One can use some sort of avoidance maneuvar (strong pokemon with agility, extremespeed, etc.) and the other enduring/focus sashing + Mirror coating the plasma beam?

Mirror Coat requires the Pokemon to get hurt, and the Ice Beam can instantly freeze a smaller foe. So the Pokemon would get hit by Plasma Beam and either become burned or frozen solid. Remember, the point of the battle isn't to kill the Pokemon, it's to kill Red. Missingnomaster's point still stands, one shot goes through all of the Pokemon and hits Red for a kill.

EDIT: Look above this post

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Then the trainer can hide behind the Mirror coat pokemon, while riding the evasive pokemon, and wait for the attack to be launched, dodge, and leave the mirror coat poke to do it's job.

 

[PowerBomb]

Then the trainer can hide behind the Mirror coat pokemon, while riding the evasive pokemon, and wait for the attack to be launched, dodge, and leave the mirror coat poke to do it's job.

Think about this for a second. Can Red really do all of that while simultaneously releasing the Pokemon from the Poke Balls? It's really quite hard, and Red is 13. Can he really do all of that before Samus shoots him?

Simple answer is no, if he can't start out with more than 1 Pokemon.

EDIT: Naming what Pokemon you're using helps.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Start with evasive poke, dodge while relasing 1+ mirror coat poke. I don't think it's terribly hard to say "_____ use agility" and "____ use mirror coat"

 

[PowerBomb]

Start with evasive poke, dodge while relasing 1+ mirror coat poke. I don't think it's terribly hard to say "_____ use agility" and "____ use mirror coat"

Red doesn't start on the evasive Pokemon. He'd have to get on it and tell it to go. Name the Pokemon you're using, it's alot easier like that.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Let's say it's arcanine. how far away do the rules require him to be from his starting pokemon?

 

[PowerBomb]

Let's say it's arcanine. how far away do the rules require him to be from his starting pokemon?

I really have no idea. I'd think pretty near judging by HGSS.

 

[missingnomaster]

He can be right next to it, he just can't start on it.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Well if he is anywehre reasonably close to it, he can climb on and go. Even otherwsie, Arcanine could use extremespeed and lift the trainer at the same time and beign the dodging, then into releasing multiple mirror coat pokemon like Suicune, Magnezone, Wobuffet, or Lopunny for example

 

[PowerBomb]

Well if he is anywehre reasonably close to it, he can climb on and go. Even otherwsie, Arcanine could use extremespeed and lift the trainer at the same time and beign the dodging, then into releasing multiple mirror coat pokemon like Suicune, Magnezone, and wobuffet for example

Magnezone, Suicune, and Wobbuffet can all be frozen. Samus can always put a Power Bomb down and kill the trainer right away if he decides to run.

Lopunny can be frozen also.

 

[missingnomaster]

So Red becomes a moving target.

If Samus has the rate of fire she does in the Prime Series, it will be impossible for Red to dodge her for long.

And the Mirror Coat pokemon won't really help since Samus doesn't have to aim at them.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Red can stand behind the mirror coat pokemon, to force samus into shooting, and wobuffet can use safeguard to prevent freezing of any part pokemon for a while, and can refresh it when it wears off

 

[missingnomaster]

Mirror Coat does not stop Plasma Beam from going through the pokemon and killing Red.



Actually, Mirror Coat doesn't even work in a way that would be useful for Red.

 

[PowerBomb]

Yeah, Mirror Coat isn't Protect. Actually, Protect wouldn't even work in this MU.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

How not? Mirror coat uses uses an attck equal in power to the special attack that just struck it. If plasma beam is as powerful as you say, it would kill samus when mirror coat'd. And once she fires, at the shield poke, arcainine extremespeeds away, and if not samus woudl be killed by the mirror coat reversal leaving it at a draw at best.

 

[PowerBomb]

How not? Mirror coat uses uses an attck equal in power to the special attack that just struck it. If plasma beam is as powerful as you say, it would kill samus when mirror coat'd. And once she fires, at the shield poke, arcainine extremespeeds away, and if not samus woudl eb killed by the mirror coat reversal leaving it at a draw at best.

Because Mirror Coat has a set damage... it's double whatever damage it inflicted on the Mirror Coating Pokemon. Samus would lose 300-600 damage max if Mirror Coat is pulled off. And besides, as Red tosses out a Poke Ball containing the Mirror Coating Pokemon, a Plasma Beam is headed his way.

This really isn't that hard. Red can't win.

EDIT: Mirror Coat isn't Copycat, it doesn't use the same attack. It's just a reflection of the damage inflicted upon the Mirror Coating Pokemon doubled. Mirror Coat can also be evaded, mind you.

 

[missingnomaster]

If Plasma Beam was strong enough to kill Samus when Mirror Coated, it would kill whatever pokemon was going to use Mirror Coat.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

So mirror coat will kill Red but when reversed and doubled won't kill samus?

Edit: The focus sash keeps the pokemon alive, also Lopunny can be the mirror coat pokemon can slo use endure

 

[PowerBomb]

So mirror coat will kill Red but when reversed and doubled won't kill samus?

The HP thing is rather iffy. Most Pokemon (MOST) have around 250-400 HP. Samus has 2099 HP.

250-400 HP doubled isn't enough. Of course, HP comparisons are iffy...

Edit: The focus sash keeps the pokemon alive, also Lopunny can be the mirror coat pokemon can slo use endure

Alright, if he's using Lopunny, and no Wobboffet with Safeguard, Lopunny gets frozen solid. Mirror Coat fails to work.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

If we disregard the HP thing for a moment and consider the fact that this beam is uber-powerful and is killing anything at all it hits, why wouldn't it kill samus, outside of a hp value

 

[missingnomaster]

So mirror coat will kill Red but when reversed and doubled won't kill samus?

Edit: The focus sash keeps the pokemon alive, also Lopunny can be the mirror coat pokemon can slo use endure

You sound like someone who's never played a Metroid game.

Samus has at least 14 energy tanks containing 100 units each. She also has at least 75% damage reduction from suit upgrades.

And then she has some reserve tanks that activate if she were to lose all of her energy.

Plus Red can't command a pokemon to use Mirror Coat if he's already dead.

 

[PowerBomb]

If we disregard the HP thing for a moment and consider the fact that this beam is uber-powerful and is killing anything at all it hits, why wouldn't it kill samus, outside of a hp value

Mirror Coat requires HP mechanics to work correctly. The Beam isn't uber powerful, it's the fact that it's stacked with everything else. And every other Beam Samus has inflicts a status effect.

Samus' Suit uses HP as a sort of 'fuel'. Energy tanks.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

****, you got em there, I haven't played a Metroid. But even so, Endure let's the pokemon survive any attack, 5 pokemon all with focus sashes and the ability to do endure + Mirror coat, while Togekiss who can fly and use extremespeed uses these moves to avoid, camp behind the lopunnies

 

[missingnomaster]

Samus charges a shot. The Nova Beam drastically increases the speed at which the Charge Beam travels.
Samus fires. The Mirror Coat pokemon is nearly killed and Red is killed within less of a second of each other.


And yes, Nova Beam stacks with the others. It just only appeared in MP3.

 

[PowerBomb]

****, youg ot em there, I haven't played a Metroid. But even so, Endure let's the pokemon survive any attack, 5 pokemon all with focus sashes and the ability to do endure + Mirror coat, while Togekiss who can fly and use extremespeed uses these moves to avoid, camp behind the lopunnies

My god, do you not realize how tough it is for a 13 year old kid to send out five different Pokemon from five different Poke Balls and tell half of them different things? Red has two arms, two hands, ten fingers. He can't do all of these simultaneously. Endure is useless in this MU. It really isn't this hard. Samus shoots, freezes everything if no Safeguard, hits Red, he dies. And if Red isn't using a large Pokemon, Samus can snipe him with the Imperialist. Hell, no need to snipe. Just shoot.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Fine, I won't argue this anymore, I still think Red could pull it off, but I'm alone here, and it's already been marked with the win.

EDIT: though, Powerbomb, I wasn't implying that he send out all of his 5 pokemon, just one until it dies, then another. I was trying to point out that if oneis killed he can send out another while dodging around on arcanine

 

[PowerBomb]

Fine, I won't argue this anymore, I still think Red could pull it off, but I'm alone here, and it's already been marked with the win.

Alright then.

Anyway, at current MU: Will Lucario's attacks hurt Snake enough to kill him, or will the Rapid Fire Rocket Launcher just... blow him up?

EDIT: though, Powerbomb, I wasn't implying that he send out all of his 5 pokemon, just one until it dies, then another. I was trying to point out that if oneis killed he can send out another while dodging around on arcanine

He doesn't have to wait until it dies, and just having one or two Pokemon out against SAMUS is a terrible strategy. Besides, who says Arcanine will be able to dodge in time as Red is getting on? Imperialist will OHKO Arcanine and then Samus can kill Red if you want it to be like that.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I think Snake's defensive options would limit Lucario's attack options, so it becomes a ranged battle, and Snake is a good long-range fighter with any of his chosen fire arms.

Powerbomb: Thats where setting up a shield and run strategy comes in, plus he can carry an infinte amoutn of max revives...**** i guess I'm not done...sorry

 

[missingnomaster]

You just don't seem to get how quick and powerful a Charged Shot consisting of:
Power
Ice
Wave
Plasma
Wide
Long
Nova

Would be.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Powerbomb: Thats where setting up a shield and run strategy comes in, plus he can carry an infinte amoutn of max revives...**** i guess I'm not done...sorry

This is true.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I guess not. though you don't seem to know how fast ExtremeSpeed can go either, or the hammerspace of Red's backpack.

Meh, we're clogging the thread, back to Lucario and Snake.

 

[missingnomaster]

No one knows just how fast Extremespeed can go.
And I'm well aware that Red can have hundreds of most items (if we go by the more recent hammerspace) I'm normally one of Red's biggest advocates.

It simply doesn't matter when Samus can fire a shot that will kill Red before he can react to it.