Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheKnight]

At the same time though he looks like an average guy but blocky. I don't get what's so appealing of that.

Uniqueness and opinions on character design are two different things. His potential for a unique moveset is absolutely staggering given the depth of Minecraft. I didn't think I'd ever be arguing for Steve in relation to Smash, but here we are. What a timeline.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I still don't see how they can animate Steve with these graphics. That's the most difficult thing of seeing him being a playable character.

I still don't see how this is a problem in a game with Mr.Game&Watch.

 

[Lyndis_]

I still don't see how they can animate Steve with these graphics. That's the most difficult thing of seeing him being a playable character.

Either he'll move like a toy doll, having a stiffness that gives him a visual uniqueness (think LEGO movie) like G&W of they'll just bend his limbs. I don't see why either would be too difficult to visualize.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I'm still convinced that were probably only getting a Minecraft stage and that's about it. That or an assist trophy.

My guess it's a Monster Hunter situation. New third party series with an assist trophy and a stage. A Monster Hunter stage with Rathalos assist, and a Minecraft Stage with a Creeper assist. Both are situations where they are series that should be represented in Smash (yes, I think Minecraft should have representation), but wouldn't benefit from having a playable character. That's 2 of the supposed 5 more stages, and the rest could be from new characters (my optimistic guess is Incineroar, Isaac, Banjo & Kazooie).

That's the other thing, you don't need Steve for that. You could have Minecraft Mario or Jesse from Minecraft Stories and nothing that big would change.

Indeed, I'm really stretching to think of positive inclusions of Steve, and the only one I can think of is a merely cosmetic change. And personally, I'd prefer Mii Costumes, though I think having both would compliment each other in different ways.

EDIT: When I hear people say they could make Steve an interesting character: "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."

 

[DarkFalcon]

Steve would totally stand out from the current roster in the same way that Mr.Game&Watch does. His movement and artstyle would be janky in a way that matches no one else in the game. For that alone he'd be a unique fighter.

I don't think anyone would or should argue that Steve wouldn't be unique. Frankly though, I don't care if he was. Steve is such a nothing character. It is very clear why people would not be excited for him. Steve has no character. How am I supposed to be excited for that?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

We'll just have to find out at the end of all of this but I'm hoping Steve doesn't make it in.

I'm still thinking were only getting a stage and assist trophy.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Steve's alts. would probably be 4 Steve with different clothes or colors, and 4 Alex with the same deal.

His character / personality would be represented by the way he has to survive in Minecraft, probably, but with a more comical / light-hearted approach, idk. I can imagine them at least making his eyes close in that anime-styled way, almost like a "/".

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Inb4 Herobrine alt for Steve

 

[P.Kat]

Personally I'd prefer Banjo Kazooie, over Steve as a MS rep any day however, at the end day, if Steve gets in I'll respect Sakurai's decision and congratulate those who wanted him. Simple as that.

EXCUSE ME.
Us Duck Hunt fans are actually quite nice. We're just pushing the message of dogs > cats.

As a Cat who likes Dogs, I find your lack of equality... disturbing.

 

[SvartWolf]

How can you defend him over Banjo-Kazooie (who he would be replacing).

ohhh.. im such a monster! poor banjo!...

dude.. if sakurai wanted to get banjo due the ballot, he went and got banjo... if sakurai wanted to get steve because minecraft is kinda of a big deal.... then he went and get steve.

end of the story...

 

[Camc10]

Steve's alts. would probably be 4 Steve with different clothes or colors, and 4 Alex with the same deal.

His character / personality would be represented by the way he has to survive in Minecraft, probably, but with a more comical / light-hearted approach, idk. I can imagine them at least making his eyes close in that anime-styled way, almost like a "/".

The point you make a character for Steve is probably the point where you should use someone else.

 

[Lyndis_]

I don't think anyone would or should argue that Steve wouldn't be unique. Frankly though, I don't care if he was. Steve is such a nothing character. It is very clear why people would not be excited for him. Steve has no character. How am I supposed to be excited for that?

I think it's likely at this point nothing would get you specifically excited about this character, but that's fine. Not every single one has to, as long as there's other people to be excited for them.

I don't care if Steve isn't a "real" character just like I don't that Villager or Monster Hunter isn't, I like the games and the potential for moveset and the unique things they bring to the table.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The point you make a character for Steve is probably the point where you should use someone else.

They basically had to do the same for Mr. Game & Watch.

 

[Untouch]

G&W is actually very faithful to how he moves and stuff in the G&W games, I don't really understand this argument.

 

[Camc10]

I think it's likely at this point nothing would get you specifically excited about this character, but that's fine. Not every single one has to, as long as there's other people to be excited for them.

I don't care if Steve isn't a "real" character just like I don't that Villager or Monster Hunter isn't, I like the games and the potential for moveset and the unique things they bring to the table.

Actually, that was the reason why Monster Hunter was never in crossovers before. They didn't want a Main Series Hunter with personality (until MvCI).

 

[TheCJBrine]

G&W is actually very faithful to how he moves and stuff in the G&W games, I don't really understand this argument.

But he kinda has a personality to him, at least it feels like it, idk. I know it was done for SSE. They even made up his name, like just slapping Duck Hunt on the dog and duck.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I don't think anyone would or should argue that Steve wouldn't be unique. Frankly though, I don't care if he was. Steve is such a nothing character. It is very clear why people would not be excited for him. Steve has no character. How am I supposed to be excited for that?

There's more things to like about a character then, well, their character. You might not care, I don't expect you to - honestly I don't care about Steve at all myself - but there's a lot of different reasons to want someone then just their personality.

I think people would like Steve for one or both of two reasons.

1) They love Minecraft and want a character who represents the gameplay and feel of it.
2) They think his janky movements and art style are amusing or possibly even charming in their own weird way.

Both of these reasons are completely legitimate reasons to want a character. The former is why we have characters like Villager and the latter is why we have characters like Mr.Game&Watch and Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[volbound1700]

Fine... I will be happy for Steve. This is going to be a great game so I shouldn't be getting upset over nothing. At least we are getting new characters. I just really wanted Banjo-Kazooie . Perhaps this is a good sign we will get Banjo DLC.

I am under the impression I won't be getting Tails though.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I think it's likely at this point nothing would get you specifically excited about this character, but that's fine. Not every single one has to, as long as there's other people to be excited for them.

I don't care if Steve isn't a "real" character just like I don't that Villager or Monster Hunter isn't, I like the games and the potential for moveset and the unique things they bring to the table.

Thing with Steve is people seem to like the concept and that's it (because there's nothing else to like). People wouldn't care if it was Steve or some other random nameless Minecraft avatar. I need more than just unique gameplay to like a character.

 

[vaanrose]

I still don't see how this is a problem in a game with Mr.Game&Watch.

This comparison misses a key point.

Game & Watch has legible, clear key poses. He has stylistically limited animation, but he has a full range of movement that allows for easily recognizable actions, which is extremely important for fighting games where you need to react to things at a glance.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it cool for me to post a link to a thread I made?

 

[Lyndis_]

Thing with Steve is people seem to like the concept and that's it (because there's nothing else to like). People wouldn't care if it was Steve or some other random nameless Minecraft avatar. I need more than just unique gameplay to like a character.

Everything you said is technically true, but I don't understand the issue.

 

[SvartWolf]

also.. quick reminder that minecraft have managed to stay relevant like... 7-8 years? (not counting the alpha and beta periods where it was still niche) is not a "last rad" like FNAF or stuff...

 

[DevaAshera]

No it didn't. Zelda and Samus did the same thing. Zelda arguably did it much better Trainer.

Could always have just had Red as Charizard's trainer, Blue as Greninja's trainer, and Leaf trainer of a fully evolved Grass starters.
Good times!

Samus/ZS Samus' transformation was stupid. Zelda/Sheik's wasn't that good, Sheik was always the better of the two. Pokémon Trainer was still the only 3-in-1 character and the perfect way to represent the training aspect.

Why would Blue be Greninja's trainer over Serena/XY Male? Same for Leaf since I doubt a fully evolved Grass Type would be Venusaur.

Fact is that it's simply not how you want the character, which is fine, but most seem to like how Pokémon Trainer is implemented so you're in the minority. Why satisfy a minority over the majority?

That was a real meme. Wasn't it because someone accidentally posted all of the newcomers onto the website?

Guess we found out Intern-kun's old job.

Yeah..I was a moderator at Capcom when that happened..they uploaded all the newcomers with the file names either being numbers or their names, I forget which..it was a mess..

 

[TheCJBrine]

Thing with Steve is people seem to like the concept and that's it (because there's nothing else to like). People wouldn't care if it was Steve or some other random nameless Minecraft avatar. I need more than just unique gameplay to like a character.

tbh I'd rather have Steve with Alex and Herobrine as alts. or the Creeper as playable reps in Smash, as nothing else seems like it'd rep it good enough for a playable rep since Steve/Alex and the Creeper are the game's faces.

 

[Iridium]

I would still love to see any of these alts (or inspired alts) get added:

Either these or the Hylian Hood addition to his red alt, which should have happened honestly.

 

[ZephyrZ]

This comparison misses a key point.

Game & Watch has legible, clear key poses. He has stylistically limited animation, but he has a full range of movement that allows for easily recognizable actions, which is extremely important for fighting games where you need to react to things at a glance.

They could create new animations for Steve that fit within his stylistic limitations, imo. I could imagine him sweeping his arm in an arch over his head for an up tilt, for instance. ROB also has pretty stiff animations but they took creative liberties to make it work.

 

[CosmicQuark]

There's more things to like about a character then, well, their character. You might not care, I don't expect you to - honestly I don't care about Steve at all myself - but there's a lot of different reasons to want someone then just their personality.

I think people would like Steve for one or both of two reasons.

1) They love Minecraft and want a character who represents the gameplay and feel of it.
2) They think his janky movements and art style are amusing or possibly even charming in their own weird way.

Both of these reasons are completely legitimate reasons to want a character. The former is why we have characters like Villager and the latter is why we have characters like Mr.Game&Watch and Wii Fit.

I think it's reasonable to care about the character--not the sole reason, but a big reason. Otherwise lets have generic Fornite soldier.

1) There are other ways to represent franchises, and Minecraft's appeal comes more from the world rather than the characters. Even the Creeper is more iconic than Steve
2) Potential movesets matter more in a fighting game than purely aesthetics, and the off-the-wall characters have been iconic to Nintendo in particular (Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit). Picking a character purely for aesthetic appeal, not their abilities, is a better suited for games like Mario Party and Mario Kart (which is why we probably still don't have Waluigi)

My criteria for a good Smash character: 1) Moveset potential (the biggest factor) 2) Popularity/Relevancy 3) Significance with Nintendo

 

[DarkFalcon]

There's more things to like about a character then, well, their character. You might not care, I don't expect you to - honestly I don't care about Steve at all myself - but there's a lot of different reasons to want someone then just their personality.

I think people would like Steve for one or both of two reasons.

1) They love Minecraft and want a character who represents the gameplay and feel of it.
2) They think his janky movements and art style are amusing or possibly even charming in their own weird way.

Both of these reasons are completely legitimate reasons to want a character. The former is why we have characters like Villager and the latter is why we have characters like Mr.Game&Watch and Wii Fit Trainer.

Again, that's fine for other people, but for me personally I just can't. If he gets in I'll get over it. I'm stating why I don't like the character and don't want him. I'm not advocating for some anti Steve group. It's just what I feel.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I think it's reasonable to care about the character--not the sole reason, but a big reason. Otherwise lets have generic Fornite soldier.

1) There are other ways to represent franchises, and Minecraft's appeal comes more from the world rather than the characters. Even the Creeper is more iconic than Steve
2) Potential movesets matter more in a fighting game than purely aesthetics, and the off-the-wall characters have been iconic to Nintendo in particular (Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit). Picking a character purely for aesthetic appeal, not their abilities, is a better suited for games like Mario Party and Mario Kart (which is why we probably still don't have Waluigi)

My criteria for a good Smash character: 1) Moveset potential (the biggest factor) 2) Popularity/Relevancy 3) Significance with Nintendo

Are people still arguing that Steve lacks moveset potential?

 

[Deleted member]

Good lord, I come back and see an argument for dogs vs. cats. What have I done lmao
but the answer will be dogs because snoopy boom end of debate

 

[BrytonJ]

Weirdly enough Steve could borrow moves from Isabelle in that he could use the fishing rod with side b and pick up items with neutral b.

He'd also be the one character that I don't want to emote. Bendy arms Steve is already weird enough but maybe neccesary. Facial animations Steve is kind of terrifying imo. Stick to the in game static faced Steve.

 

[LetterO]

Imagine going back 4 years and telling yourself that people would be arguing over if Steve or Banjo-Kazooie would get in or not. It feels really surreal that this is just a normal thing like "oh yeah steve from minecraft might be in smash alright well whatever".

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The Ken leak seems like another ESRB leak situation to me, where people point out things that make it seem fake, when those things actually make it seem more credible.

I'm on team real.

Now is there a specific reason Steve is being talked about here?

 

[DarkFalcon]

Everything you said is technically true, but I don't understand the issue.

If you want the character there is no issue. I'm not saying he shouldn't be in. Just why I don't want him.

 

[Camc10]

Weirdly enough Steve could borrow moves from Isabelle in that he could use the fishing rod with side b and pick up items with neutral b.

He'd also be the one character that I don't want to emote. Bendy arms Steve is already weird enough but maybe neccesary. Facial animations Steve is kind of terrifying imo. Stick to the in game static faced Steve.

This kinda stuff is why I'd make the call to use Jesse.

 

[Untouch]

The ONLY way I can see Steve working is taking away what makes him Steve which is something Sakurai doesn't like to do.
A stage would be perfect, I cannot see anyone possibly having a problem with that at all.

 

[Koopaul]

The problem with Steve is that he isn't flexible or capable of being well animated. All the fighters in Ultimate have these very strong and dramatic attacks with limbs stretching and faces being expresive. Look at how Ness throws PK Fire vs how he used to throw it. So much more pronounced.

So Steve? He can't do that. He's stiff unshapable blocks body with a stiff unshapable face. Sakurai once said he won't put in a fighter unless he can see them "dance" in his head. I can't imagine Sakurai could see Steve dancing.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Imagine going back 4 years and telling yourself that people would be arguing over if Steve or Banjo-Kazooie would get in or not. It feels really surreal that this is just a normal thing like "oh yeah steve from minecraft might be in smash alright well whatever".

guys Steve won EVO 2019 umg

I don't really know how EVO works.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Thing with Steve is people seem to like the concept and that's it (because there's nothing else to like). People wouldn't care if it was Steve or some other random nameless Minecraft avatar. I need more than just unique gameplay to like a character.

If you’ve been to the videogame merch part of a store, there’s a lot of merch of Steve and Alex specifically. There’s some merch of random skins too, but, they wouldn’t sell so much merch of Steve and Alex specifically if people didn’t care enough about them for it to be so profitable.

That said, while their animations should be pretty accurate to those of Minecraft, they should probably give them facial expressions at least so they have a little more character, since you look at the characters’ faces a lot more in Smash than in Minecraft. Nothing too detailed as too much detail would be breaking the art style too much, just stuff like closing their eyes when hit.