So I guess ICs are "S Tier" now :) / :( ?

[Rubberbandman]

so i know i said this a billion times before buttttt

im back.

i guess practicing and better than ever

moved into mah own house with roomates.

life rules.

but i need a secondary. i know i should choose mk but im still considering other top tiers.

anybody got any idears?

Yay, prawn is back for the 19th time.

Pika, Marth, GnW, Wario, Peach, D3, and Snake all come to mind when I think secondary for Icies excluding MK.

 

[Roller]

He's sleeping in the living room not with my girlfriend and me lmao.

Oh, good. You're smarter than the people who let him have the bed..

 

[Blissard]

Oh, good. You're smarter than the people who let him have the bed..

But I think sheets are easier to dispose of rather than a sofa.

 

[zet@_956]

My Ice Climbers Footstool to Upsmash Pivot Chaingrab. Awesome http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv-google&desktop_uri=/&gl=US&rdm=4n549youb#/watch?v=lGTq-4RODeE

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Your link is very weird...

http://www.youtube.com/watch/?v=lGTq-4RODeE
^ regular link

Not sure why, youtube isn't working for me well...Anyway, I did watch it, and it does look good.

 

[DeLux]

My Ice Climbers Footstool to Upsmash Pivot Chaingrab. Awesome http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv-google&desktop_uri=/&gl=US&rdm=4n549youb#/watch?v=lGTq-4RODeE

Why would you add an element of Tripping to an already tripless form of CG?


This is a bad Chain grab.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Exactly what I thought. Plus Fsmash does more damage faster so you're basically getting the job done slightly slower using that, not much of a difference though.

Lux, talk to me on skype when you get a chance.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Why would you add an element of Tripping to an already tripless form of CG?

why would they postpone brawls release to add tripping?
Questions, questions.

 

[TheSaintKai]

Someone tell me how to beat Meta Knight.
Not the ******** ones like the ones I faced in the videos, not the ones that rush in.

Ones that know the MU and camp hardcore.
I felt SO helpless that I legitimately thought about switching to Falco permanently.

 

[Smoom77]

blizzard and upair

 

[B0NK]

^^^To expand on that, use the blizzards to try to gain the lead and tack on damage. Up-airs are also for the lead, but also to never let the MK jump over you. If he can just jump over your wall, you have no wall

Ones that know how to fight blizzard can then be baited, but regardless you limit there options. Unlike ones who rush in, where they give you free kills lol.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Someone tell me how to beat Meta Knight.
Not the ******** ones like the ones I faced in the videos, not the ones that rush in.

Ones that know the MU and camp hardcore.
I felt SO helpless that I legitimately thought about switching to Falco permanently.

Stop auto piloting and actually think. Icies can't win tournies on grabs alone, you still have to use your brain.

 

[Smoom77]

illmatic and i got some really good videos. they'll be up sometime this week

 

[Dnyce]

[7/6/11 12:59:03 AM] DeLux: yeah
[7/6/11 12:59:06 AM] DeLux: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12975977&postcount=13251
[7/6/11 12:59:07 AM] DeLux: this is why
[7/6/11 12:59:09 AM] DeLux: we lose to Mk

I lol'd

 

[DeLux]

^^^To expand on that, use the blizzards to try to gain the lead and tack on damage. Up-airs are also for the lead, but also to never let the MK jump over you. If he can just jump over your wall, you have no wall

Ones that know how to fight blizzard can then be baited, but regardless you limit there options. Unlike ones who rush in, where they give you free kills lol.

Fino kinda ninja'd me, but you shouldn't be using blizzard to rack damage. If you use it in that manner, it's just asking to get SDI Daired.

Your Aerials do the damage. Meaning you WANT MK to zone themselves directly above you (assuming there's a platform for you to use as a shield).

Platforms, Blizzards, and Aerials will win this matchup, I promise


Like whether you play it 9B style or Desync Style, the primary damage agent is always the uair. Never Blizzard

 

[Smoom77]

ching chong the witch is dead

 

[Thebest1pj]

i main ics

can i camp?

 

[TheSaintKai]

i main ics

can i camp?

No leave here you devil worshipper you're obviously a terrorist with your bombs

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Lol.
Whats 9B style?

 

[DeLux]

You walk back and forth

And kill things


There's probably some zoning cues he's looking for. But for the life of my I don't understand

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Lol. I pretty much do that.
I only play nolimar campy.
Even my jiggs is pretty aggro!

 

[Rubberbandman]

Lol.
Whats 9B style?

Walk it out. React to everything. Punish. Its pretty funny, fun to hit off and simplistic. Though I don't get how he can do it so well.

You walk back and forth

And kill things


There's probably some zoning cues he's looking for. But for the life of my I don't understand

Yup, don't worry. Imma start using both styles and figure everything out. Then combine them.

Only a matter of time before I start ******.

 

[ch33s3]

You walk back and forth

And kill things


There's probably some zoning cues he's looking for. But for the life of my I don't understand

It's just using fear of the grab, then being where they would run from the first grab before they can run from the second (or being where they would be after they run from the second before they can run from the third, etc). ****'s hard.

 

[B0NK]

Fino kinda ninja'd me, but you shouldn't be using blizzard to rack damage. If you use it in that manner, it's just asking to get SDI Daired.

Your Aerials do the damage. Meaning you WANT MK to zone themselves directly above you (assuming there's a platform for you to use as a shield).

Platforms, Blizzards, and Aerials will win this matchup, I promise


Like whether you play it 9B style or Desync Style, the primary damage agent is always the uair. Never Blizzard

Mis-understood me, your not using it to force damage, your using it to cause unnecessary damage for MK, by limiting his options.

What's going to make MK run into your aerials???? Not just walking around, blizzard is a very good tool to get him where you need him.

SDI, D-air I'm well aware of, Jtails and many other MK's I practiced with do it consistently. Also many don't that I have played in tourney. I use it to gauge how well they know the match-up too.
At lower percentages Bliazzard is great, it won't immediately turn them into ice and get a fast D-air, instead, they won't get out before you can F-smash, U-smash, Grab, whatever if they get hit.

Don't act like I'm dumb, I don't lose to many MK's accept top ones or ones I practice extensively with. So **** you. Simple as that.

 

[B0NK]

Never Blizzard is probably the stupidest advice I have ever heard btw, just sayin.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

^ yes.
Fight the player, not the character.
Anyone know how Dr. Mario's metagame is played in melée?
He sits back. Camps a little.
Learns the opponets move-set, and see's how he counters the MU.
Then go in and **** him in all his weakspots.



EDIT: @ bonks double post.
I thought the same thing, then thought "but it's lux..." and read it again.
He said aerials are your DAMAGE RACKING moves. never blizzard

 

[Hylian]

At lower percentages Bliazzard is great, it won't immediately turn them into ice and get a fast D-air, instead, they won't get out before you can F-smash, U-smash, Grab, whatever if they get hit.

Don't act like I'm dumb, I don't lose to many MK's accept top ones or ones I practice extensively with. So **** you. Simple as that.

Uh, don't say "don't act like I'm dumb" when you spit wrong information like 1 second later lol.

Name the mk's you beat if you don't lose to many except top ones...because what you just said about blizzard doesn't make sense and really shows you are inexperienced with the match-up or don't really know what you are talking about and are just saying random things lol. You pretty much just said the complete opposite of when to blizzard, when they turn into ice at high %'s(it's pretty ****ing high when they turn into ice I might add) they will NOT be able to dair you. They can SDI dair you the easiest at lower %'s

He never said you were dumb, you are being unnecessarily defensive. The things you are saying are for the most part incorrect(you shouldn't use blizzard to rack damage, you want to have mk above you). He also said blizzards are one of the mains things that contribute to beating mk, which you apparently didn't notice. So chill.


On another note, played with M2K all night, went fairly even with him MK vs IC's(I haven't practiced IC's in forever so I keep dropping cgs though lol) but HE KEEPS BEATING ME ON FD LOL. I don't get it, I will go even on battlefield and smashville with him, and get like 3 stocked on FD lmao.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Its funny, didn't cheese say that he could only beat M2K on FD when he played him?

So really it might just be by taste that FD is our 'best' stage, and that stages that have platforms and ways to dodge actually help us. Still many variables need to be factored in. TO THE LAB!

 

[B0NK]

Uh, don't say "don't act like I'm dumb" when you spit wrong information like 1 second later lol.

Name the mk's you beat if you don't lose to many except top ones...because what you just said about blizzard doesn't make sense and really shows you are inexperienced with the match-up or don't really know what you are talking about and are just saying random things lol. You pretty much just said the complete opposite of when to blizzard, when they turn into ice at high %'s(it's pretty ****ing high when they turn into ice I might add) they will NOT be able to dair you. They can SDI dair you the easiest at lower %'s

He never said you were dumb, you are being unnecessarily defensive. The things you are saying are for the most part incorrect(you shouldn't use blizzard to rack damage, you want to have mk above you). He also said blizzards are one of the mains things that contribute to beating mk, which you apparently didn't notice. So chill.


On another note, played with M2K all night, went fairly even with him MK vs IC's(I haven't practiced IC's in forever so I keep dropping cgs though lol) but HE KEEPS BEATING ME ON FD LOL. I don't get it, I will go even on battlefield and smashville with him, and get like 3 stocked on FD lmao.

EEvisu, P~S pocket MK, some dude name Keith Kush, Tiger's MK, Tant (Back and forth, we do practice together), go back and forth with Jtails MK as well but he beats me more, Korn another person I practice with, RJ's pocket MK, HelpR, etc. All I can remember right now, basically don't lose to pocket MK's and average ones.

I lose to like Ally's, Omni's I haven't played in over a year, Anti i've only played his Snake unfortunately, etc. Top playing MK's, haven't been off the Atlantic north so that should give you an idea of what MK's.

I'm talking about Up-smashing or tilted up f-tilt MK when you are desynching blizzards and one lands instead of trying to get into grab/pivot grab range when he's SDI-ing at low percentages. Most IC's I see auto-pilot the next blizzard or try for the grab when you can't -___-

w/e I understand what I'm talking about, guess I can't explain it. Welp! idc anymore >.>

Also lol I've noticed MK's being better on FD too haha xP They just don't like how you can stay under platforms I guess >.< *shrugs*

 

[B0NK]

]EDIT: @ bonks double post.
I thought the same thing, then thought "but it's lux..." and read it again.
He said aerials are your DAMAGE RACKING moves. never blizzard

miss understood that too, thanks.

I apologize for that.

EDIT: Also I'll just stop posting here, since from what I can see I approach the game differently, and usual most don't agree or I can't explain my thinking process. I'll do what I used to do and ignore this board and only read info I didn't know. (Really, only started posting again cause I was curious about my stored walking desynch, and Lux is amazing at explaining everything.)

Me contributing anything to conversations = not wanted on the boards, I'll stick to giving advice or asking questions in person, since it seems everyone acts different on the boards anyways (not everyone, a lot though) and I have no problem explaining in person >.>

 

[Hylian]

You don't need to stop posting here, there is nothing wrong with discussing things, just don't be so defensive when people disagree with you. People disagree with each other here all the time lol.

 

[B0NK]

[7/6/11 12:59:03 AM] DeLux: yeah
[7/6/11 12:59:06 AM] DeLux: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12975977&postcount=13251
[7/6/11 12:59:07 AM] DeLux: this is why
[7/6/11 12:59:09 AM] DeLux: we lose to Mk

I lol'd

Then keep this stuff off the boards and on IM where they're from.

How did this contribute to anything? How did this create a proper counter-argument? How was this lead to any constructive discussion or criticism.

It didn't, that's why I got so defensive and frankly a little pissed off.

It's fine to disagree, but don't post something like "I disagree" > "Advice like this is why every player is losing to MK" or some generalization > Misunderstandings > "I lol'd"

 

[DeLux]

@Bonk: Hey Bonk, I apologize if it came off as I don't appreciate your posts. I REALLY do and think you are one of the better contributors on the boards. I usually don't like making excuses for misunderstandings, but these are my reasons in my defense:

1. It was an IM to a friend in the context of, "I am typing a correction/rebuttal from my experience on why this is really bad on how to approach the matchup". Here is the full context of the post:

Spoiler

[12:59:16 AM] DeLux: yeah
[12:59:18 AM] DeLux: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12975977&postcount=13251
[12:59:20 AM] DeLux: this is why
[12:59:21 AM] DeLux: we lose to Mk
[1:01:11 AM] Collin: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12976375&postcount=13254
[1:01:14 AM] Collin: lololololol
[1:01:25 AM] Collin: anarchy GO!
[1:01:31 AM] Collin: afk
[1:01:31 AM] DeLux: man
[1:01:33 AM] Collin: lol
[1:01:34 AM] Collin: jk
[1:01:38 AM] DeLux: gonna be like
[1:01:39 AM] Collin: I'll edit it if you want
[1:01:39 AM] Collin: XD
[1:01:40 AM] DeLux: that
[1:01:43 AM] DeLux: before I get to post
[1:02:02 AM] Collin: lmao

2. Given that it WAS an IM, I fully expected Fino to keep it in confidence. He didn't do that. Obviously his intent was to incite stuff, which I knew it was going to upon seeing the post. He's notorious for doing that. But using my moderating power to prevent that would have been an abuse on my part (correct me if I'm wrong Hylian), so I just sat by and took the lumps.


But when I said "This is why we lose," it wasn't an insult towards you. I was just saying how if blizzard is used as the damaging agent, we get separated, causing us to lose. If the MK is anywhere BUT directly above us or directly horizontal to us, they have many more options which would cause us to lose. And mr. game and watch was correct in what interpretting what I was saying. I probably use blizzard more than any IC in the MK matchup. But I almost NEVER use Synced Blizzard (intentionally) and I NEVER use Blizzard to rack damage, just as a way to make the MK want to go above me.


@ Jordan - Only Blizzard wall on FD if you don't have a shield. That no platform BS combined with his perfect Dair spacing will eat your shield alive, but blizzard wall leaves you open to Dair. Since he has to land and you can use an uair to make him eat his jumps, Blizz wall is just a stall tactic for shield time.

At least, it worked when I played him. You should try getting him to go to some jankier levels because he wouldn't do that with me when he was at my apartment.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

...

Anyway, I ordered a new controller that's supposed to come in today, and I'm hoping that it isn't too different from my old one (which is pretty worn out) Because relearning chain grabs = not fun for a guy who can hardly do them.

 

[Rubberbandman]

...

Anyway, I ordered a new controller that's supposed to come in today, and I'm hoping that it isn't too different from my old one (which is pretty worn out) Because relearning chain grabs = not fun for a guy who can hardly do them.

No, it won't change anything, except feeling much more fresh.

Bonk, just shut up and post *****. If you think you're right then keep it that way, if you aren't then lets not be petty about this ****. Fino is really the guy to blame about all the bs going down. >:

Lets all agree that if someone is wrong, be RESPECTABLE when correcting them. Lux, that means no IM'ing people you know have a big mouth. >.>

So lets just move on to the next topic or something.

 

[Dnyce]

chaos accomplished... bbl

 

[Roller]

Yo, Fino just earned so much respect from me.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Who's fino?

 

[Smoom77]

I am actually the smartest ICs, lain.

 

[Hylian]

Uploading matches of me vs M2K now. I'm rusty, but still did pretty good .