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So if I vote Obama, I'm going to be kicked out of my grandparents house...

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Firus

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If you fall for that movie, I'm sorry but you're literally ********. but you are voting for Romney so I was kinda leaning that way anyways.
Literally ********, though? Literally? (That is quickly becoming my least favorite word.)

And really, though, with the "but you are voting for Romney..." bit? This is exactly the problem with politics and political discussions. Nobody can bloody disagree with somebody without name-calling. If you want to say that somebody is stupid for buying propaganda, it's not the nicest way of discussion, but it's whatever. But a difference in opinion, for crying out loud?

The right wing rhetoric against him is completely ridiculous and offbase. He is a right centrist, but the republicans like to try and paint him as a hard left socialist. It's silly.
Yeah, and this pretty much sums up how both parties act toward another. It's a game of "Who can be painted to look like a worse person," and the hardcore right is over there claiming Obama is a muslim socialist who wasn't born in the US while the left is painting Romney as this ridiculously rich baby-killer, which he is on the rich part, except anybody who gets to the level of running for president is going to have a large sum of money. It's not like Obama is the common man either, it's a bloody political strategy that political candidates have been using forever, yet somehow people still seem to be under the impression that one of the candidates might not be ridiculously wealthy.

"It's silly" basically sums up 90% of the arguments that either party uses against the other. It's just mudslinging, and we'd be better off if people were actually capable of being civilized in politics instead of making up and exaggerating dirt on candidates.
 

Evil Eye

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Except the hard right really is trying to say Obama is a muslim socialist

Nobody is actually saying Romney is a literal babykiller as far as I'm aware, and if they are, they're outliers, while there are a good number of mainstream voters and quite possibly politicians that think Obama is a muslim socialist that wants to destroy America.

FYI I have zero stake in American politics whatsoever. I'm not American. I've voted in one federal election ever, and in that one, I voted for our rightwing party. I have since abstained, because I don't tend to like any political party at all. Maybe I'll vote in the future. Probably not, however, because there are so many people like Zio who think the fact that something exists in a movie makes it a fact that they'll latch onto it desperately and use that as one of their many excuses to decide a politician isn't fit for office rather than actually evaluating their platform and going through why they don't agree with it and on what grounds, and why the other leader is going to do any better in a logic that doesn't boil down to white washing, whiteknighting, and general fangirling in voter form.

Sorry I started to lose my mind a bit there and rambled

So there are so many damned voters out there like that that major political parties need to boil down their platforms into blood simple, partisan goop that the simpleton masses can digest easily. Not that it matters, because let's be real. Most of them are voting for flag, banner, and color, not policies.

**** politics, and **** the average voters for ruining politics.


EDIT

Really, Zio, I too would love to hear your reasons for Obama. Because I haven't heard a single one, and I'm really wondering if you can cite any of his policy decisions from memory. "He hasn't given me a single reason to trust him" is literally vacuous fearmongering and nothing else. Unless what you're saying is that the burden of proof is on him to proof he's not a muslim socialist trying to destroy America, that is.

On that note, pretty bothered by the fact that you completely skimmed over LT pointing out that that movie is bull**** after you had just cited it as a justification for your beliefs. Or was that a justification for SSBF's parents taking a **** all over democracy and freedom and other values the American country was built on? Anything to stop Obama's America. Or what? What were you justifying by invoking the authority of that pile of crap propaganda, I NEED to know, the curiosity is agonizingly painful for me, man.

And furthermore, what does knowing that it's propaganda change? Nothing, I'm guessing? Or do you still believe it?

It's kind of interesting how the hard-right was so quick to cite Michael Moore's endemic biases in his own documentaries, but now that we live in an age where all the propagandocs are being made by the right, it's apparently not much of an issue
 

ZIO

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Why should I defend my position if I am not going to sway voters to support my end? Seems rather pointless as any point I give is going to be picked apart same as whatever I've said has been.
 

Luigitoilet

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Literally ********, though? Literally? (That is quickly becoming my least favorite word.)

And really, though, with the "but you are voting for Romney..." bit? This is exactly the problem with politics and political discussions. Nobody can bloody disagree with somebody without name-calling. If you want to say that somebody is stupid for buying propaganda, it's not the nicest way of discussion, but it's whatever. But a difference in opinion, for crying out loud?
yep. I've called people ******** for less and I will continue to do so.

Yeah, and this pretty much sums up how both parties act toward another. It's a game of "Who can be painted to look like a worse person," and the hardcore right is over there claiming Obama is a muslim socialist who wasn't born in the US while the left is painting Romney as this ridiculously rich baby-killer, which he is on the rich part, except anybody who gets to the level of running for president is going to have a large sum of money. It's not like Obama is the common man either, it's a bloody political strategy that political candidates have been using forever, yet somehow people still seem to be under the impression that one of the candidates might not be ridiculously wealthy.

"It's silly" basically sums up 90% of the arguments that either party uses against the other. It's just mudslinging, and we'd be better off if people were actually capable of being civilized in politics instead of making up and exaggerating dirt on candidates.
my point was that the right is touting a bunch of nonsense to attack Obama when in reality there are PLENTY of things he has done to warrant actual criticisms. Things like NDAA, the use of predator drones, killing a US citizen, etc etc. never come up when attacking Obama and it's dumb. My point was that I wish that Obama was a secret socialist plotting to bring a Marxist utopia to America, but instead he's pretty much just George Bush again but because he is black and a "democrat" the right wing as a whole is voting against him, not his policies. I can't count the amount of people I've heard who are voting "anybody but Obama". These people don't know what Obamacare entitles, they often don't even know what socialism is, they just want the black guy out of office.

I don't go out and call people names, or even suggest mental illnesses. This is why I hate discussing politics. Same reason for religion. Because then folks will want to look down on the other for believing in something different.

Obama just never gave me a good reason to trust him. The work he's done in the last four years is indication enough for me he's not fit for the seat. I'd rather chance it on someone else than to give him another shot. He had his chance to prove himself to me.

I'd rather not get into it now because it would be too much a hassle and everyone has their opinions so it would lead nowhere.
So, you have no actual reasons to cite for Obama being "untrustworthy"? You're not going to "sway voters to your position" but it would help if you actually discussed something.
 

Falconv1.0

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Wasn't there a movie about Obama which revealed his intent on ruining our nation? Something about his father, and his father's dying wishes that he will fulfill?
You really think Obama became president so he could intentionally ruin America? Is that what I'm hearing here?

As someone who really dislikes Obama (and Romney too tbh) I...don't even...

Internet!
 

ZIO

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You all need a lesson in reading comprehension.

I was only pointing out the documentary and its contents. I never noted that I believed in it or believed it was a justified reason not to support Obama.

Lord.
 

Evil Eye

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I'm not just asking you to back up your political position, Zio, I'm asking you to back up the things you've said and done here. On a social basis if nothing else, to show that there's any kind of thought process here at all other than "grab mud, throw mud, vote Romney".

The movie thing bothers me in particular. The fact that you seriously considered the idea that it's even possible to just "decide" to become the President of the United States on the whim of national destruction is freaking absurd. Many have run for POTUS and failed. That would have, in all mathematical likelihood, been the fate of someone who just decides to run. That would also be the mathematically likely fate of someone who decides they want to fix America, and just up and decides to become a President.

So, quite honestly, "Why should I when it's just going to get picked apart" just sounds like "I don't have anything" to me.


Edit

I was only pointing out the documentary and its contents. I never noted that I believed in it or believed it was a justified reason not to support Obama.

Lord.
.........are you freaking serious?

No, dude. No. Bull****.

Why did you point it out then? What was your objective? You certainly portrayed it as the truth in your post (or the probably truth, after all, it's a "documentary"). What was your point? Come off it man, you were clearly trying to support some kind of something by appealing to its existence in the first place. Particularly when you immediately went on to talk about voting for Romney, about how Romney is "the lesser devil", and "Obama has given me no reason to trust him" is the closest thing you've offered to a concrete criticism of a Presidency.

The old "reading comprehension" excuse isn't a magic wand that turns everybody into a gullible goldfish.
 

Evil Eye

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Yeah I mean that would certainly ratchet up my opinion of his skills in certain areas.

Dude's a freakin manipulative genius.

EDIT: Like, seriously. There is a certain demographic and subset you have to fall into to ever have a slim chance of becoming President. The idea of someone making a promise on their father's deathbed to up and become the President being possible, much less doing it, is literally one of the most preposterous and ignorant things I've ever heard.
 

Falconv1.0

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If I have a son I kinda want to do that now. Instruct him to destroy the world or some **** right before I die.

People do stuff like that, right?
 

Evil Eye

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Totally. And that motivation punches right through the practical realities of how hard doing so would be.
 

Claire Diviner

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To SSBF: As everyone stated, just vote who you want. If it's Obama, then lie to your grandparents.

As for who it is I will vote for, I'm going with Obama. I haven't done as much research into the accomplishments of either candidate, but I did vote Obama last time, and between supporting gay marriage, Obamacare, and making birth control free, I'd say I'm liking what he's doing so far from what I currently see. I also liked him in the debate too, which won some points from me.

Are my reasons for voting Obama good enough? Probably not, but I'd like to think it's justified enough.


:phone:
 

Luigitoilet

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To SSBF: As everyone stated, just vote who you want. If it's Obama, then lie to your grandparents.

As for who it is I will vote for, I'm going with Obama. I haven't done as much research into the accomplishments of either candidate, but I did vote Obama last time, and between supporting gay marriage, Obamacare, and making birth control free, I'd say I'm liking what he's doing so far from what I currently see. I also liked him in the debate too, which won some points from me.

Are my reasons for voting Obama good enough? Probably not, but I'd like to think it's justified enough.


:phone:
It's better than nothing. At least you are basing your vote on some of the candidate's actual positions rather than some vagaries about "I don't think he is fit to run this country because I don't think he is fit to run this country" or following the will of some propaganda film.
 

Diddy Kong

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Here's the only answer:

Vote Obama

And don't tell ;)
 

Spelt

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Why would anyone ever fangirl over a politician? That'd be like fangirling over napoleon.
 

Crimson King

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Nah, man. It's real.

It's called "2016: Obama's America"
That movie was created by a staunch conservative. I would take nothing from it as factual at all.

Also, there is a serious question of corruption in this election:

[yt]sasfm_fTuyQ[/yt]

A programmer testified before Congress that he was able to remotely hack voting machines because he helped design them for the 2000 or 2004 election, and he had to include a remote access.
 

Jon Farron

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That movie was created by a staunch conservative. I would take nothing from it as factual at all.
If there was a movie trashing Romney made by a major liberal would you take it as factual?


Obviously it's going to be biased, but that doesn't mean it's not true. I personally haven't seen the movie, but I've heard people talk about a lot of things in it that I already knew.
 

Crimson King

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If there was a movie trashing Romney made by a major liberal would you take it as factual?


Obviously it's going to be biased, but that doesn't mean it's not true. I personally haven't seen the movie, but I've heard people talk about a lot of things in it that I already knew.
Why would I? The tone and message of this movie is to scare people from voting for Obama, or more realistically, scare supporters of the movie to oppose Obama.

The problem is the film is presenting itself as a documentary and it's based on sketchy data, for example from this review:

But perhaps the icing on the cake is D’Souza’s decision to include Daniel Pipes as his “Middle East expert” to make the anticolonial case. Pipes, a neoconservative currently affiliated with the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, whose only policy prescription is “Bomb Iran,” also infamously stated that he would vote for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad if he could, presumably because that would assure that relations between the United States and Iran remain frigid, thus keeping intervention on the table. If D’Souza had genuinely wanted an expert without ideological baggage he could have hardly done worse than Daniel Pipes.
Plus, if we had a movie about Romney by Romney it would be as fictional as this film is about Obama.
 

Claire Diviner

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At the risk of sounding as obvious as the sky being blue, I believe people should stop listening to smear campaigns and simply put in some kind of research, even if it's just a little, into the candidates; stop relying on TV ads and so-called "documentaries". The problem, however, is that you have many people out there whose only means of news on candidates are through ads and documentaries, because they either have no means to research the candidate (the Internet), or they're too stubborn/lazy to put in the effort to see what it is they're voting for, taking all ads at face value. It's a shame, really.

:phone:
 

Evil Eye

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Honestly, I doubt most of them even evaluate between the options based on the available ads at face value. It's far more likely that they decided in advance of any advertising or campaigning whom they were going to vote for, and just latch on to attack ads and spin as an excuse to do so... at best. Or maybe they'll cite some third-hand propaganda. Or... etc etc.

What you suggest, people actually just watching the available ads and deciding based on all the spin and craziness they find therein, would at least suggest some kind of evaluation. More often, it's just kindling to keep going a fire that had already started.
 

Jon Farron

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I have done a lot of research on Obama's policies, and I strongly disagree with the majority of it.

Our family has a close friend who is a doctor, and she says some of the Obamacare has already been put in place. She has to stay very late at work (around 10-11pm) filling out ridiculous amounts of unnecessary paperwork regarding the patients. She says if Obama gets elected, the Obamacare will ruin treatment options, because the GOVERNMENT will decided wether or not you can receive treatment for diseases such as Cancer, depending on your age and career. (Basically how useful you are to the society) Meaning if you're denied treatment, you're going to be left to die.

One of Obama's childhood mentors and teachers, Frank Marshal Davis, is a member of the CPUSA (Communist Party USA) and if a war were to break out in the US, he would be one of the first people to be placed under military arrest. That doesn't sound like a good person to learn from does it?
 

Evil Eye

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I have done a lot of research on Obama's policies, and I strongly disagree with the majority of it.
Glad to hear it.

Our family has a close friend who is a doctor, and she says some of the Obamacare has already been put in place. She has to stay very late at work (around 10-11pm) filling out ridiculous amounts of unnecessary paperwork regarding the patients. She says if Obama gets elected, the Obamacare will ruin treatment options, because the GOVERNMENT will decided wether or not you can receive treatment for diseases such as Cancer, depending on your age and career. (Basically how useful you are to the society) Meaning if you're denied treatment, you're going to be left to die.
Now this I'm interested in. Is that the actual criteria and purpose of the paperwork, though? She ships it on, and the government decides upon operational triage, or something like that? It seems like there's a gap between what you're describing that can be known for fact (filling out lots of unnecessary paperwork) and speculation (the government gets to decide who gets treatment and they do it based on your usefulness to society).

I'm not doubting you, but you need some clarification, as that's a pretty heavy accusation you're making.

One of Obama's childhood mentors and teachers, Frank Marshal Davis, is a member of the CPUSA (Communist Party USA) and if a war were to break out in the US, he would be one of the first people to be placed under military arrest.
Alright, now that one I just gotta see a source for.

But I'd like to point out that this isn't the Cold War anymore, nor does America live under the power of McCarthyist practices. Why would he be placed under military arrest if a war broke out? What in the world are you basing that on? Are you saying he'd be involved in the war? Based on... what?

The CPUSA is a political party representing certain ideals. As far as I know, it's not a terrorist group. Sure as hell not a party I'd ever vote for, but I fail to see what that has to do with war or arrest. What facts are you drawing all that from? Maybe I'm missing part of the mosaic, but all I see in that point is fearmongering.
 

Falconv1.0

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Aside from the military arrest thing he's not exactly far off on that.

Not to mention all the companies cutting hours/benefits because of Obamacare, or all those stories in countries with socialized medicine where people could have been easily treated but weren't due to having to wait for tests because lol socialized care.

Once again, health care does need reform but I strongly disagree with government being the solution, especially a government that's so ****ing deep in debt in one of the worst economic situations we've faced in a while ffs.
 

Spelt

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I'm not doubting you, but you need some clarification, as that's a pretty heavy accusation you're making.
Also I would look up secondary sources for this since your friend might not be giving you all of the necessary info.
 

Evil Eye

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Not to mention all the companies cutting hours/benefits because of Obamacare, or all those stories in countries with socialized medicine where people could have been easily treated but weren't due to having to wait for tests because lol socialized care.
But he didn't make that point. Either of those points, that is.

Canada's doing just fine and dandy, btw.
 

Frostwraith

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it's simple, actually, to answer the thread's question.

it's a human being's right to vote whoever sees fit as leader and whether or not keep the same vote secret or not. from my (little, as I am just 19) experience of life, I am aware that discussion on matters such as politics and religion usually don't end well when the two people have opposing ideas, as one will try to persuade the other into believing one's ideals.

so OP, it's YOUR vote and YOURS alone. that's why it's a democracy, people have the right to act on their own ideals and convictions, as long as they do not interfere with the others' freedom and rights.
 

Jon Farron

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The paperwork is about the patient's history of illness, jobs, age and other personal information, and she has to send in paperwork for every patient she has seen that day regarding their illness and what was used to treat them. (This is going on now)When Obamacare takes place, she would see the patient, then send in paperwork requesting treatment and why they need it, before she gets an answer to wether or not she can treat them. The patients would have to wait until the paperwork went through to the Government requesting treatment. This could take weeks, even months. If it came back saying they were denied treatment, they're left to die like I said.

We saw a glimpse of this last year when my grandmother died. She had several strokes, but was still fighting to live. She was doing great, but the doctors decided to cut her treatment and therapy, and instead put her on Morphine without food and water until she died because "she wasn't worth it" They also convinced my grandfather to go along with it because "it's for her own good" even though my grandmother had said she wasn't ready to die, and was determined to live. One of her nurses said she had good days, and bad days. She believed she would be able to fully recover, and said "You better be glad Obamacare isn't already in place because they would've most likely denied treatment months ago."

One more thing, my Aunt is a dentist, and has basically said the same things our friend said. Need braces? The government will decide wether you need them badly enough. Want your teeth whitened? Good luck, it's not necessary.

Other sources:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/27/supreme-court-health-care-decision_n_1630596.html
http://www.myheritage.org/news/if-obamacare-isnt-repealed-how-will-it-affect-you/
You can Google it and find plenty of stuff.


As regarding Obama's Communist Mentor:

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8430006241001/m/1720084492001
http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/09/a...-clearance-for-an-entry-level-government-job/
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor/
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/48895
 

Holder of the Heel

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I honestly don't care about his past. All I care about is what he is saying and doing now, for that actually matters. The kind of people who has been in his life is not as important as people try to make it out to be.
 

Master Xanthan

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The paperwork is about the patient's history of illness, jobs, age and other personal information, and she has to send in paperwork for every patient she has seen that day regarding their illness and what was used to treat them. (This is going on now)When Obamacare takes place, she would see the patient, then send in paperwork requesting treatment and why they need it, before she gets an answer to wether or not she can treat them. The patients would have to wait until the paperwork went through to the Government requesting treatment. This could take weeks, even months. If it came back saying they were denied treatment, they're left to die like I said.

We saw a glimpse of this last year when my grandmother died. She had several strokes, but was still fighting to live. She was doing great, but the doctors decided to cut her treatment and therapy, and instead put her on Morphine without food and water until she died because "she wasn't worth it" They also convinced my grandfather to go along with it because "it's for her own good" even though my grandmother had said she wasn't ready to die, and was determined to live. One of her nurses said she had good days, and bad days. She believed she would be able to fully recover, and said "You better be glad Obamacare isn't already in place because they would've most likely denied treatment months ago."

One more thing, my Aunt is a dentist, and has basically said the same things our friend said. Need braces? The government will decide wether you need them badly enough. Want your teeth whitened? Good luck, it's not necessary.

Other sources:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/27/supreme-court-health-care-decision_n_1630596.html
http://www.myheritage.org/news/if-obamacare-isnt-repealed-how-will-it-affect-you/
You can Google it and find plenty of stuff.


As regarding Obama's Communist Mentor:

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8430006241001/m/1720084492001
http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/09/a...-clearance-for-an-entry-level-government-job/
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor/
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/48895
Yep, this is exactly why I don't like Obamacare. I hate the idea of being able to get treatment only if the government approves of it.
 

Vkrm

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They only fit the bill if the gov decides you are worth treating? That's tweaked.... I'd never vote for Romney simply because he's a strict Mormon, he's bound to be a misogynist, racist, douche.

:phone:
 

Frostwraith

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as far as I know, and I'm the kind of person to talk only when I am sure of what I'm talking about, here in Europe, more specifically Portugal, which is where I live, healthcare is funded by the government, so the cost comes in the form of taxes, unless you resort to private services, which there you have to pay for each service provided, which isn't cheap.

of course, things don't work the same in the US... so I can't really comment on that.

besides, in terms of politics, things aound here aren't much prettier because of the Economical Crisis. even more, the salaries have been reduced, the prices rise, the taxes rise too, the number of unemployed people grows as well. not to mention Greece, which is in an even worse situation. even though the rest of Europe is in better situation... it isn't much better.

so, wherever you are in this world, you're not alone in this whole mess. but I still have hopes for a better future for all of us.
 

Mediocre

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The paperwork is about the patient's history of illness, jobs, age and other personal information, and she has to send in paperwork for every patient she has seen that day regarding their illness and what was used to treat them. (This is going on now)When Obamacare takes place, she would see the patient, then send in paperwork requesting treatment and why they need it, before she gets an answer to wether or not she can treat them. The patients would have to wait until the paperwork went through to the Government requesting treatment. This could take weeks, even months. If it came back saying they were denied treatment, they're left to die like I said.
Man, what?

First of all, if somebody's going to die, they can go to the emergency room and get treatment, period. You ever heard people say that illegal immigrants are a drain on our economy because they don't pay taxes and get free medical care? Well, the don't pay taxes bit is only somewhat true, but illegal immigrants do get treated at the emergency room, whether or not they can pay or provide proof of citizenship. They can't even ask if you can pay.

That's all due to a law Congress passed in 1986, which requires all hospitals which are part of the Medicare program (which is most hospitals in the US) to provide emergency room service to anybody who needs it. If you're curious, here's my source. So no, unless Obamacare actually repeals that law, then patients will not die while doctors wait to receive federal approval. But emergency care treatment is extremely expensive and it's generally better to get treatment earlier, for both health and financial reasons. So with that in mind, let's look at some of the other claims you made.

You say that she has to submit paperwork before she can administer treatment, and then will not be able to administer treatment if her request is denied. What you are talking about is death panels. They are a myth. (Source 1, Source 2, Source 3) What's actually going to be created under Obamacare is panels to examine the effectiveness of various treatments, and make changes so that Medicare is more cost efficient. Not insurance, because that's privately controlled. Just Medicare. Medicare doesn't cover everything currently, and it still won't under Obamacare. But you know what's in the mandate of the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB), the board that's being set up to reduce the cost of Medicare to the government?

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (AKA Obamacare) said:
The proposal shall not include any recommendation to ration health care, raise revenues or Medicare beneficiary premiums under section 1818, 1818A, or 1839, increase Medicare beneficiary cost sharing (including deductibles, coinsurance, and co-payments), or otherwise restrict benefits or modify eligibility criteria.
That quote is directly from the bill that established Obamacare. And you know what it says? That the IPAB will not "ration health care", "restrict benefits" or "modify eligibility criteria". In other words, it's not allowed to deny treatments that are currently covered under Medicare. (Source, page 428 (or page 409, according to the page numbers in the bill itself))

We saw a glimpse of this last year when my grandmother died.
I'm sorry. My grandmother died a little over a year ago.

She had several strokes, but was still fighting to live. She was doing great, but the doctors decided to cut her treatment and therapy, and instead put her on Morphine without food and water until she died because "she wasn't worth it"
Who is this quote from? The doctors? Did they say that? If so, they are horrible doctors.

But unless Obama or one of the lawmakers who supported his health care plan said that your grandmother "wasn't worth it", I'm not sure how that quote has anything to do with Obamacare.

They also convinced my grandfather to go along with it because "it's for her own good" even though my grandmother had said she wasn't ready to die, and was determined to live.
If they pressured your grandfather, then that's wrong, and that's not what's supposed to happen under either the current system or Obamacare. But again, that's an issue with the doctors, not with the laws. And obviously, when your grandmother was saying that she said she wasn't ready to die, she was still able to express her own wishes. When your grandfather was making the decisions, she wasn't. Something had changed with regards to her health. I have no idea what the right decision for your grandmother, but the circumstances clearly changed.

In any case, whether under Obamacare or under current law, if your grandmother did not have a living will, it would be up to your grandfather to make the ultimate decision. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

One of her nurses said she had good days, and bad days. She believed she would be able to fully recover, and said "You better be glad Obamacare isn't already in place because they would've most likely denied treatment months ago."
As I've said before, this is patently false. No coverage is being cut from Medicare. No coverage is being cut from private insurance providers, because they're private. No paperwork needs to be submitted to the government. Who would have denied your grandmother treatment?

One more thing, my Aunt is a dentist, and has basically said the same things our friend said. Need braces? The government will decide wether you need them badly enough. Want your teeth whitened? Good luck, it's not necessary.
Again, the government doesn't control what private insurers cover, and still won't under Obamacare. Medicare is a program for seniors, and what it covers won't be changed anyway. I doubt seniors often need braces, and if they do, they'd be just as able to get them under the current law or Obamacare.

Other sources:
Oh boy.

I read this whole article. First of all, it says nothing that supports anything you've been saying. Second, I don't even like the Huffington Post because it's too biased towards the left. The Huffington Post is super liberal, and rather sensationalist.

So your source is supporting Obamacare, making the opposite of the point you're making, and it's a bad source anyway.

The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank. Think tanks are simply not trustworthy, ever.

Your sources are a forum post, a news site founded by Tucker Carlson (a conservative commentator) and Neil Patel (former adviser to **** Cheney), a conservative media watchdog group, and a conservative online newspaper. These are not unbiased sources. These are not even necessarily reliable sources.

And moreover, alright, Obama was friends or at least acquaintances with a communist. Frank Davis was not violent. He did not advocate violence. Being friends with somebody with fringe views on certain subjects, who tries to promote those views through peaceful means... alright. Not a problem for me. As long as Davis isn't violent or a bigot, I don't see why I should bothered.
 

Crimson King

I am become death
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Yep, this is exactly why I don't like Obamacare. I hate the idea of being able to get treatment only if the government approves of it.
Almost nothing he said was true. I had a detached retina, and I needed surgery. I got surgery the day after diagnosis, and because of exemptions with Obamacare, I was able to have two insurances. My total cost of surgery was nearly $100,000, which I will come to in a moment, and I paid nothing.

The fact is doctors are armed robbers. If you have insurance, they set a value, say $18k for a single day's surgery. Insurance will pay less than half of that after negotiations and what not. If you don't have insurance, you will have to pay all that because that's where doctors make their money--through uninsured people.
 

Pink Reaper

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They only fit the bill if the gov decides you are worth treating? That's tweaked.... I'd never vote for Romney simply because he's a strict Mormon, he's bound to be a misogynist, racist, douche.

:phone:
Are you allowed to vote? Like, seriously? Is there a way we can get that privilege revoked? Cus like, holy ****, you're incredibly stupid.
 
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