So Lucario is mid tier...

[iRJi]

Congrats, We have dropped about 5 spots since the first tier list. Is Lucario really mid tier? To me not so much, but there has to be a reason why he was dropped that low.

Ill start it off by giving the first topic - Representation in Tournaments

Discuss.

 

[Browny]

lucarios rep isnt THAT bad

he just has typical high tier syndrome. why play a high tier character if you can use a top tier one. its not like people are going to respect you any more, thats what mid and lower is resevred for.

I think hes right where he should be now. 13th at absolute highest once all this pika hype dies down

 

[Rayku]

Soon Lucario can get to low tier and we can start annihilating the competition in low tier tournaments.

Awww yeah.

Except Pokemon Trainer, apparently.

 

[iRJi]

LOL. My issue was when they had the debate saying that it was really close between Lucario and Kirby. If it was that close, but the gap was a bit greater between Lucario and ZSS, Why not push the Line between Lucario and ZSS instead of Lucario and Kirby?

 

[CaliburChamp]

In my opinion it should of been like this:

Bottom of A Tier:
Lucario

B Tier:
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby
Toon Link
blah
blah
blah

Lucario has better match ups than Kirby does. Which is why I think Lucario should be above Kirby, with Kirby 1 or 2 spots behind. Zero Suit Samus is too good.

I still consider A and B tier to be high tiers. Not just A tier and up.

 

[Kitamerby]

Honestly, the idea of being below Kirby is kind of silly, but meh. Let's just keep going down until we hit low tier. It'll be fun to use Lucario in low tier tourneys.

 

[D. Disciple]

I'm telling you, Lucario is the challenge character. The only thing we have is IASA Frames and an Aura Buff.

 

[Kuhn]

I never understood why he was below Kirby either. At the very least he should of dropped 3 spots to where Kirby is. I knew he'd drop but not like DK much. >_>

 

[tedward2000]

I do believe that Rep, is a part of it. And secondly the fact that lucario is a very simple character.
Yes theres the aura buffs, but that the extent of our fanciness with cario.

We cannot update a character that's 90% metagame'd already. Going on a mad rush to find to AT's wont do any good either because, theres tons of threads that come and go about doing such things.

People just have to get better. And they did bring up talk of lucario's and kirbys placement, so hopes to a change.
-t2

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Lucario is that ninja rat clinging (bro-ing) to the hull of the viability ship. Nothing's changed at all.

 

[Ephyon]

Lucario is that ninja rat clinging (bro-ing) to the hull of the viability ship. Nothing's changed at all.

you win dear sir. I was going to type something, but I couldn't express myself better.

all the more reason to choose him, get better and kick some high tier ***. amirite?

 

[Browny]

the viability ship sailed loooong ago

theres like, maybe 6 characters above lucario in the same position lol

 

[LordoftheMorning]

I'm not surprised we've dropped so low. We have been so **** lazy. Seriously. Individually, though, my Lucario has broken past a plateau, and feels better than ever. I'll be going to some Vegas tournaments this summer.

I really think he has a LOT more in him than a lot of the characters above him. We just have to step it up. I mean, look what sonic did.

 

[iRJi]

I'm not surprised we've dropped so low. We have been so **** lazy. Seriously. Individually, though, my Lucario has broken past a plateau, and feels better than ever. I'll be going to some Vegas tournaments this summer.

I really think he has a LOT more in him than a lot of the characters above him. We just have to step it up. I mean, look what sonic did.

Now thats the motivation that I love to hear. That is exactly what im talking about. Lucario in my opinion deserves high tier, we just have to demonstrate it. anyone up for revamping the Lucario boards? Not just the boards either, revolutionizing our gaming style.

 

[Aurasmash14]

totally agree with this ^^

 

[Melomaniacal]

The thing is, Lucario is where he is not because of what he does well, but because of the way he avoids gay ****. I don't think Lucario is mid tier, but I don't think he's that much higher. In my mind, he's just one of the most balanced characters.

 

[iRJi]

Even if he is balanced enough, that still does not excuse the slow pace we are moving at for his metagame. We all need to step it up and look out for one another, improve one another's gaming abilities to produce results.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
Who do you think is the game's best Lucario? What Regions is Lucario being played properly in? Where do you think people who can go should go to make him more Popular?

I still find it strange that Lucario droped at all... He doesn't seem or feel like a just mid-range character. I know he doesn't have much to him, but he's simple and yet he can still hold his own with the "top" tiers. So... what the heck?
:flame:

 

[tedward2000]

A huge colab of lucario players helping each other. Sounds like a great idea. However, everyone is spread out among the western world (and Eastern). Talking the talk, isnt walking the walk.

As for metagame, its awfully dry. And trust me, It wont go anywhere. New tactics need to be produced if anything.

Lucario is a defensive character, with little to figure out now days. We are stuck in a rut because our character was made to a extent, aura and range. That's it. We dont have any good moves that let us expand our metagame. For example, If someone figures out a way to speed up lucario's attacks then we're going somewhere.

So basically we need to find a way to remove lucario's weaknesses by some means that hasnt been found yet. Good luck.
-t2

 

[iRJi]

A huge colab of lucario players helping each other. Sounds like a great idea. However, everyone is spread out among the western world (and Eastern). Talking the talk, isnt walking the walk.

As for metagame, its awfully dry. And trust me, It wont go anywhere. New tactics need to be produced if anything.

Lucario is a defensive character, with little to figure out now days. We are stuck in a rut because our character was made to a extent, aura and range. That's it. We dont have any good moves that let us expand our metagame. For example, If someone figures out a way to speed up lucario's attacks then we're going somewhere.

So basically we need to find a way to remove lucario's weaknesses by some means that hasnt been found yet. Good luck.
-t2

That's the thing. I have noticed a lot of videos and everyone does play defensive. I happen to play really really really aggressive, and i do well in tournaments on the east coast all the time. To come and think about it, I honestly think he plays better aggressive then passive.

Edit: Honestly, If anyone wants to learn the aggressive way to play, I can write up a play guide. That's only if people want me to though, I don't want to write something and be pointless for the community because they don't want to know it.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

If Lucario is so simple, then why do people say he has such a high learning curve? I've never thought of him as simple. He employs quite a bit more strategies than many characters.

 

[iRJi]

Thats because he does. He is by far not simple, because you have to adjust your gameplay depending by character. Also I need feedback on my post above.

 

[Drizzt6195]

Please do it can only help

 

[Zucco]

I completely agree with RJ. at least 3/4 of the lucarios I see play defensive and I sometimes wonder why. I play aggressive with Lucario and its been paying off for my first month in offline tournaments. the only time I ever play defensive is when I have the stock lead or if aggressiveness just isn't the right strategy for the match . Lucario's metagame wont be evolving anytime soon if all the Lucarios are doing the same old thing so I say we switch it up a bit.

 

[|RK|]

Irony: This is EXACTLY what I expected, minus the letters. When I switched to Kirby, Timbers asked me if I was moving down the list. I was like, psh, hah, Kirby'll be above Lucario.

Anyways, lol at anyone talking about representation. Look at Kirby's representation.

And I tried to motivate this board a couple of times, but no one participated in the discussions and the threads died. I went deep into the specifics of Aura and everything and what we got was "Aura Boost sucks" and a few good stuff from Milln, phil, Timbers, etc. Needless to say, this thread died. This is due to laziness. We didn't try hard enough to find ways around things and the board became pretty dead. We assumed we could stay high forever, but that didn't happen.

Another thing: Matchups don't determine a tier list entirely. Lucario vs Kirby is in Lucario's favor, but Kirby has much better things going for him, including better combos that don't have to do with F-Air.

So. If you guys are willing tto contribute to Lucario's game, Lucario will become better. Tell me... how many of you looked at the thread on Fire-Bouncing to find out where our ExtremeAwesome works? How many of you contributed actual techniques to my list instead of lol terms?

I know that I'm being kind of a jerk, but this was our fault entirely. Much less my fault. I did sidetrack us a bit with that DT thing ^_^; , but if there's no track, there is no way to sidetrack. If we are to bring back topics that aren't the social thread, and really discussed, don't you think Lucario could be better?

Look at the Sonics for example. From F to C. While we were loling in our chatroom, they were working. They analyze the strengths and weaknesses of each player's styles. After both of our spam parties stopped, we did two entirely different things.

Lucario > Chatroom
Sonic > Hard Work

Before this tier list even came out, people started to consider Lucario not high tier. Kirby, on the other hand, is just good. Lucario did deserve the spot that he got, and Kirby deserved his. Can you, Lucarios, work hard towards a higher tier position? We can do it if you come here often rather than being in the IRC. When people said things in our matchup discussions, like Lucario vs MK is even, did we think to ask them why, or attempt to bring up all the things that Lucario cannot do against MK? Or did we just say "It is nowhere near even." and throw out our own arbitrary number?

The choice is yours Lucarios, whether you want to be high tier again or not.

 

[iRJi]

Irony: This is EXACTLY what I expected, minus the letters. When I switched to Kirby, Timbers asked me if I was moving down the list. I was like, psh, hah, Kirby'll be above Lucario.

Anyways, lol at anyone talking about representation. Look at Kirby's representation.

And I tried to motivate this board a couple of times, but no one participated in the discussions and the threads died. I went deep into the specifics of Aura and everything and what we got was "Aura Boost sucks" and a few good stuff from Milln, phil, Timbers, etc. Needless to say, this thread died. This is due to laziness. We didn't try hard enough to find ways around things and the board became pretty dead. We assumed we could stay high forever, but that didn't happen.

Another thing: Matchups don't determine a tier list entirely. Lucario vs Kirby is in Lucario's favor, but Kirby has much better things going for him, including better combos that don't have to do with F-Air.

So. If you guys are willing tto contribute to Lucario's game, Lucario will become better. Tell me... how many of you looked at the thread on Fire-Bouncing to find out where our ExtremeAwesome works? How many of you contributed actual techniques to my list instead of lol terms?

I know that I'm being kind of a jerk, but this was our fault entirely. Much less my fault. I did sidetrack us a bit with that DT thing ^_^; , but if there's no track, there is no way to sidetrack. If we are to bring back topics that aren't the social thread, and really discussed, don't you think Lucario could be better?

Look at the Sonics for example. From F to C. While we were loling in our chatroom, they were working. They analyze the strengths and weaknesses of each player's styles. After both of our spam parties stopped, we did two entirely different things.

Lucario > Chatroom
Sonic > Hard Work

Before this tier list even came out, people started to consider Lucario not high tier. Kirby, on the other hand, is just good. Lucario did deserve the spot that he got, and Kirby deserved his. Can you, Lucarios, work hard towards a higher tier position? We can do it if you come here often rather than being in the IRC. When people said things in our matchup discussions, like Lucario vs MK is even, did we think to ask them why, or attempt to bring up all the things that Lucario cannot do against MK? Or did we just say "It is nowhere near even." and throw out our own arbitrary number?

The choice is yours Lucarios, whether you want to be high tier again or not.

I guess that I will be doing that post about aggressiveness huh?

I always thought that Lucario played better aggressive, i been playing aggressive since the 2nd tier list was released.

Tonight or tomorrow I will be making a post about Lucario's aggressive play. Also, lets fix up the boards a bit. We don't even have his frame data finished. We need to work hard as a whole to make a comeback into the meta game. but first a slow and steady start. Ill get working on the aggressive post and descriptions. Phil, if you read this, try to fix up the character data a bit. I will be glad to help also

Edit: Btw, I will not be doing it alone. We already made a post about this, but I think we need to renew and redo the post. we will do this together as a board. Hang tight, we will be getting back up and running soon.

 

[*Poe]

That's the thing. I have noticed a lot of videos and everyone does play defensive. I happen to play really really really aggressive, and i place in tournaments in the east coast all the time. To come and think about it, I honestly think he plays better aggressive then passive.

Edit: Honestly, If anyone wants to learn the aggressive way to play, I can write up a play guide. That's only if people want me to though, I don't want to write something and be pointless for the community because they don't want to know it.

The aggressive gameplay guide sounds good...could really use the help in my Lucario game

 

[Browny]

ugh RK...

pretty much everyone knew Kirby would be higher than Lucario, hes clearly a better character and much easier to win with vs majority of the cast.

No one replied to your threads because they were either extremely situational (extreme awesome which doesnt work on any tourney legal stages iirc?) and anything else you suggested had been suggested in the past, but were ignored it as it was shown to be a waste of time and better options are available.

 

[iRJi]

ugh RK...

pretty much everyone knew Kirby would be higher than Lucario, hes clearly a better character and much easier to win with vs majority of the cast.

No one replied to your threads because they were either extremely situational (extreme awesome which doesnt work on any tourney legal stages iirc?) and anything else you suggested had been suggested in the past, but were ignored it as it was shown to be a waste of time and better options are available.

Actually, I don't agree with that statement. That's just me though. Saying that he has a much easier time against the cast is false. He might have a slighter advantage with more of the cast then Lucario, but the reason why he wins his match ups are almost identical to Lucarios in certain aspects.

 

[iRJi]

ugh RK...

pretty much everyone knew Kirby would be higher than Lucario, hes clearly a better character and much easier to win with vs majority of the cast.

No one replied to your threads because they were either extremely situational (extreme awesome which doesnt work on any tourney legal stages iirc?) and anything else you suggested had been suggested in the past, but were ignored it as it was shown to be a waste of time and better options are available.

Honestly it wouldn't matter, whats important here is that we fix the issue, no?

 

[Kitamerby]

(extreme awesome which doesnt work on any tourney legal stages iirc?)

Extreme Awesome works on all legal stages and all illegal stages simply because it's just what happens when Lucario comes in contact with a wall/ceiling that he cannot cling to or move along.

It's usable without death though on only a few legal stages including Jungle Japes, Luigi's Mansion, Pokemon Stadium 2, etc.

Anyways Kirby is simpler than Lucario, more popular than Lucario, and has more players using him. When you look at Kirby, you see a legitimate kill move, multiple jumps, a long-lasting spike, and a tiny hint of a combo game. Lucario at first seems like a complete mess outside of Fair, with slow moves overall, a double-edged sword in his aura ability, lack of truly safe kill moves, etc. He's just simpler than Lucario, and easier to wrap your head around.

As such, I doubt many SBR players have met a good Lucario, due to his lack of popularity (and lack of good players overall), and just plain based off of who was simpler and who they probably had more experience against, AKA Kirby, simply because they have not yet played a good enough Lucario to spark their interest in the character.

In other words, we're too **** complicated and unknown and we need to spread out and start getting some serious rep out there so we can educate the biased idiots who think Lucario is to be below a gluttonous pimple with a 12-frame fsmash.


Also, L2DI, peeps. It'll help.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Extreme Awesome works on Luigi's Mansion.
But I would love to see the Aggression Guide for Luca, I would love to see these boards strive.
My buddy Slido gets so discouraged at how dead the boards are, it's not really like I can say anything though.
Good luck you Luca mains still out there.

 

[Kitamerby]

Extreme Awesome works on Luigi's Mansion.
But I would love to see the Aggression Guide for Luca, I would love to see these boards strive.
My buddy Slido gets so discouraged at how dead the boards are, it's not really like I can say anything though.
Good luck you Luca mains still out there.

Here's the new Aggression guide on Lucario:

Don't.


Also, RK is wrong by default. The reason the Sonic mains are thriving is because they have good players getting him high placings at tournaments.

Most Sonic mains are meh, but those few good ones are the ones keeping him up there. Hell, quite a surprising amount think that Sonic is too high now and needs to go down a few spots.

 

[G-Beast]

:flame:
Who do you think is the game's best Lucario? What Regions is Lucario being played properly in? Where do you think people who can go should go to make him more Popular?

I still find it strange that Lucario droped at all... He doesn't seem or feel like a just mid-range character. I know he doesn't have much to him, but he's simple and yet he can still hold his own with the "top" tiers. So... what the heck?
:flame:

well i know he is being played properly by one person in Newfoundland, im not sure if the maritimes have any other Lucario mains at all...

quite frankly, i do not think he is mid tier.... top of high tier... possibly even low top tier...

 

[iRJi]

Here's the new Aggression guide on Lucario:

Don't.

Reason being?

 

[LordoftheMorning]

I've been feeling this way for a long time, but now I realize exactly what it is that's wrong.

Here's the new Aggression guide on Lucario:

Don't.

Quite frankly, I think this is the main reason behind Lucario's decline: Almost every single one of the senior members on our boards is a complete sad sack. A lot of you guys have absolutely no faith in your character. Instead, you complain about his shortcomings 24/7 and whine about how you have no tournament representation. Seriously, just change your main already.

It really gets on my nerves. Lucario has a lot more potential to unlock, but every time someone talks about trying something new, people will quite literally parachute in and cut them off at the pass. It's become fashionable to sit back and shut down potential contributors to the metagame with an "I'm-more-experienced-than-you" tone in your voice. It's genuinely pissing me off. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being so close-minded. GET ***** AND SHAPE UP! Hell. The Lucario boards used to be a cool place... now I don't even like to post here. And I'm grateful as hell that I have never listened to its stale notions of what Lucario can and cannot do.

Lucario is chill, but he's got some fire in that aura of his. No more apathy, for god's sake.

*This isn't directed at Kitamerby, but that quote is a great example of what I'm talking about*

 

[iRJi]

I've been feeling this way for a long time, but now I realize exactly what it is that's wrong.


Quite frankly, I think this is main the reason behind Lucario's decline: Almost every single one of the senior members on our boards is a complete sad sack. A lot of you guys have absolutely no faith in your character. Instead, you complain about his shortcomings 24/7 and whine about how you have no tournament representation. Seriously, just change your main already.

It really gets on my nerves. Lucario has a lot more potential to unlock, but every time someone talks about trying something new, people will quite literally parachute in and cut them off at the pass. It's become fashionable to sit back and shut down potential contributors to the metagame with an "I'm-more-experienced-than-you" tone in your voice. It's genuinely pissing me off. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being so close-minded. GET ***** AND SHAPE UP! Hell. The Lucario boards used to be a cool place... now I don't even like to post here. And I'm grateful as hell that I have never listened to its stale notions of what Lucario can and cannot do.

Lucario is chill, but he's got some fire in that aura of his. No more apathy, for god's sake.

*This isn't directed at Kitamerby, but that quote is a great example of what I'm talking about*

This made me smile. =].

But to add on to what he said. Not really add on actually, but to completely agree with you. Its what I was saying earlier. If you just sit here and don't try, we will not go anywhere. Instead of just going off of what you might know, open your minds and try something you might learn.

Edit: I will make the post about the aggressive gameplay. If anyone does not want me to do it, then don't read it. I will be talking about traps, setups, and baiting. Expect a post from me about it within the next few days.

 

[tedward2000]

Well if we're to start revamping things, people have to be willing to start doing stuff.
Now I can bring back the metagame thread, (simple bump).

But I have an idea, along the lines of a video series. I've been talking to milln about it, and perhaps he's still gun-ho about it.

Playing Lucario, The ropes.
Its a sports commentary on videos of lucario gameplay. with the freeze frames, and yellow marks. But at the same time making it informative, with guest speakers. Oh and using videos from youtube carios and videos ppl send in.

I'm willing to begin this if people want to. Its like the Inner-fire of 09.
But again, thats a meh.
-t2

 

[D. Disciple]

I'm actually willing to do this Ted. If I can get these semi-dated vids up. I would like to contribute.

 

[A New England Winter]

I'll contribute my opinions as well. I matter. You need proper rep from NE Lucarios after all. All 1 of them.