• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Sonic General Discussion/Social thread

Player -0

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
5,125
Location
Helsong's Carpeted Floor
Keep holding Down-B then jump. Like...

Let's assume you're falling. In parentheses means simultaneous inputs. Also tap jump on because that's what I use lel.

(:GCD: [hold down]+:GCB:) + :GCB: [mash however many times -> :GCU:[flick]

Instructions are kinda awkward lol.
 

DrugsM2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
81
What are good stages that play to sonics strengths, and what stages is sonic better off avoiding?
Dreamland and anything with a wall to wall jump off of and platforms for movement, even yoshis ive been starting to like recently cause of how fast sonic is with platforms and being able to keep really tight spacing with tilts and jabs on yoshis
 
Last edited:

TheGravyTrain

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
866
Location
Ferndale, WA
NNID
Theboyingreen
Sonics horizontal speed (barring specials) isn't that great. However, combine is really good vertical acceleration with wavelanding and specials and Sonic becomes a lot more mobile (and with aerials, so you don't need to space with jabs/tilts as much which aren't that great).
 

DrugsM2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
81
the issue is following up on those aerials safely and in general even approaching with them safely

Wavedashing is about all i do on yoshis cause there really isnt any need to dash on a stage of that size, youve essentially got fox's wavedash so any spacing thats within that wavedash distance allows you to use alot safer approach options like jabs (jab 1 is a +2 on hit iasa 15, jab 2 is a +7 on hit iasa 18) which lead to tilts/grabs which lead to aerials and can be dashed out of alot sooner then youll be able to a whiffed or even landed aerial (other then shffl fair/bair/nair or Sh instant nair)

also his specials, eh, tech chase, hitbox presence and decent follow ups from stuff like side-b>sh nair they have negative disjoints and they dont clank, literally cant clank with things so i tend to avoid using down-b and side-b in a neutral position

Sonics a floaty so good aerial presence is just inherent of that but his neutral game is closer to that of sheiks for sure
 
Last edited:

TheGravyTrain

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
866
Location
Ferndale, WA
NNID
Theboyingreen
I like to use side b forward a waveland off backwards. If you do no hop, it can be really safe. Otherwise yah, wavedashing is much safer. I just love wavelanding and Sonic has a good one cuz of jump speed. The aerial I was thinking of was fair, but I am no expert or anything. I just mess around with Sonic.
 

Star ☆

No Problem!
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
816
Location
Sydney, Australia
NNID
Autumnflow
Sonic has a plethora of different ways to approach but mixing those up is key because none of them are inherently considered better than others in most situations so you can utilize different techniques and still get large rewards equally. However, it is very important to consider the matchup at all times; I feel a Sonic player should have a VERY deep understanding of every single character in the game in order to optimise his punish game in situations where the other player makes mistakes. These mistakes, in turn, can only be recognised if you know openings in the other character/player's neutral game and act accordingly.

Some of the movement/approach options I like to utilise:

Dash Dance > JC Grab
This approach is one of Sonic's more fundamental options in the neutral and is also used heavily by other characters such as Falcon/Fox but to a lesser extent. This is something I believe every Sonic player should be doing in every matchup but it is exceedingly easy to do so against slower characters or ones with limited approach options. Eg. Lucario, Bowser, DK, Charizard. You can also use a Gatling Grab alternatively against characters that crouch cancel a lot. Eg. Roy, Yoshi.

Platform Drop > Fair/Bair
You can do the fair either from a downwards drop from a platform, a wavedash off or a simple run off. I find this is a very quick and deceptive option to utilise because of how safe it is if you space it correctly; the startup is quick and can catch dash dancing characters beneath you off guard, even if you hit with the weak hitbox. Use this against characters you really struggle in the neutral against when on flat ground. Eg. Link, Falco, G&W. Bair hits more infrequently and doesn't lead into followups in the majority of situations but it helps reset the neutral and gives you time to position yourself favourably, I use this in all matchups.

Moonwalk > Ftilt or Jab > Grab
A risky option to say the least but it is useful as long as it is only used in moderation. Sonic's moonwalk is very quick and almost teleports you across the stage especially when using F-tilt to gain that extra range. You can also jab then grab out of the moonwalk or F-Smash/D-Smash if you feel daring. I use this more frequently against campy characters or characters that SHFFL a lot in neutral. Eg. Snake, ROB, Fox, Mario.

These are just three of the approach options I use, perhaps I'll talk later about some other ones that I do. Hope this helps guys :)
 

Vultron

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Messages
165
Location
Canyon, TX
Does anyone feel that Blast Attack offstage isn't very rewarding? I want to use it, but it just isn't worth the risk to me.
 

GabPR

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
1,356
Location
Puerto Rico
Blast attack offstage is Hype now, so as long as you get 1 good hit with it offstage, it dont matter if you had to use 3 stocks to do it. :D.
 

Vultron

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Messages
165
Location
Canyon, TX
Apologies for Double Posting, but when is everyone going to their next tournament!? I want to see some more Sonic footage!
 

GabPR

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
1,356
Location
Puerto Rico
Ive already went to a few, but aside from some twitch footage the uploader has not uploaded to youtube.
 

jtm94

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
1,384
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
This man N810 was doing really good at AZProjectmee tonight.
go check out the VOD and look for the videos, he almost won GFs after he reset the bracket against Heyseuss.
 

Star ☆

No Problem!
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
816
Location
Sydney, Australia
NNID
Autumnflow
I'm off to Project Melbourne tomorrow, a PM only Australian major. Up against Mango in my pool. Wish me luck guys! I should be able to get it recorded and/or streamed.
 
Last edited:

DrugsM2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
81
I basically made a diagram of every "safe" approach option sonic has and from what distance on a dreamland scale... its a mess honestly, but im gonna take a pic when i go back to work and upload it for you guys cause i think its really good, it has every safe mix up follow up option listed after the approach option used aswell and then every approach option is at the max range you can use it from
 

GabPR

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
1,356
Location
Puerto Rico
I basically made a diagram of every "safe" approach option sonic has and from what distance on a dreamland scale... its a mess honestly, but im gonna take a pic when i go back to work and upload it for you guys cause i think its really good, it has every safe mix up follow up option listed after the approach option used aswell and then every approach option is at the max range you can use it from
this sounds really interesting, im looking forward to it.
 

Project SonicSpeed

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
316
Location
Brandywine, Maryland
NNID
SonicSpeed432
3DS FC
0000-0000-0000
Hey guys i've got a question about sonic. So I watch alot of good sonics to learn from them and get better myself with him and I never see them use sonic's tilts very much. I'm not sure if it's because his frame data on tilts are bad or if they're unsafe upclose because of CCing but I wanna know this. Is it a bad idea to box with sonic?
 

Player -0

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
5,125
Location
Helsong's Carpeted Floor
With every character you should box the opponent out to a certain extent. Using his tilts to do this isn't usually the greatest idea because of their CD and their range isn't that great.

F-Tilt is used best for a quick poke or for edgeguarding. I'm more inclined to use D-Tilt on floatier characters due to it actually popping up. CC beats it for a long time iirc. Up-Tilt is an anti-air and a combo extender.
 

DrugsM2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
81
Hey guys i've got a question about sonic. So I watch alot of good sonics to learn from them and get better myself with him and I never see them use sonic's tilts very much. I'm not sure if it's because his frame data on tilts are bad or if they're unsafe upclose because of CCing but I wanna know this. Is it a bad idea to box with sonic?

Jab 1 is +2 on hit, jab 2 is +7, utilt and dtilt are 7 and 6 frame start ups, utilt is +1 on tipper, dtilt is +2 on all hitboxes, sh nair is a 6 frame option from the ground, boost grab is a 3 frame option, and side-b is 5 frames so you can do the math I'm at work lol

Also here is the diagram I promised, it's battlefield not dreamland

****s a mess but correct so enjoy lol

To clarify a bit the arrows represent the aerial arc sonic will follow and any arrow points represent where it will make contact or where to start the move. Any of the tilt jabs or boost grabs are purely a follow up to an aerial or side-b or aerial down-b and then I mentioned how those are all extremely positive on hit and easy to follow up on or boost grab/pivot boost grab covers all shield options, and then just remember shield stops and jc grabs from dash dance are always an option

Also I've been starting to abuse shffl dair as my main follow up to uthrow/utilt/dtilt since it's a total of 17 frames from the ground to the end of l cancel lag if frame perfect and provides positioning ontop of them for the follow up

Please enjoy my foreward moonwalking as well https://gfycat.com/AlienatedRepentantBrahmanbull
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Star ☆

No Problem!
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
816
Location
Sydney, Australia
NNID
Autumnflow
Also here is the diagram I promised, it's battlefield not dreamland

****s a mess but correct so enjoy lol
To be honest dude I can't make out that image at all. If it were slightly cleaner and I could read the text amongst the lines I could clean it up and make a digital version but this is way too hard to read.
 

DrugsM2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
81
To be honest dude I can't make out that image at all. If it were slightly cleaner and I could read the text amongst the lines I could clean it up and make a digital version but this is way too hard to read.
fair enough i figured it would be, but im lazy and wanted to force you guys to decipher the code, ill make up a graphic in like an hour tomorrow or something
 

Kei_Takaro

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
1,007
Location
Underneath FD
Just wondering since I haven't seen it mentioned so far, not sure if technology or not but:
Basically it's [Dashing to edge of stage -> Taunt-cancelling -> and flicking :GCCL: or :GCCR: for F-Smash]
*I have my side-taunt mapped to :GCLT:

Thoughts? I haven't checked in on the frame data yet though


Also, going to a first tourney on Saturday, I'll try and get some replays in after
 
Last edited:

Player -0

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
5,125
Location
Helsong's Carpeted Floor
I remember taunt canceling being mentioned earlier for it's ability to stop you instantly with no lag directly on the ledge.

F-Smash isn't that great of an option to edgeguard with though.
 

DrugsM2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
81
Just wondering since I haven't seen it mentioned so far, not sure if technology or not but:
Basically it's [Dashing to edge of stage -> Taunt-cancelling -> and flicking :GCCL: or :GCCR: for F-Smash]
*I have my side-taunt mapped to :GCLT:

Thoughts? I haven't checked in on the frame data yet though


Also, going to a first tourney on Saturday, I'll try and get some replays in after
An easier way to go about this would be too go into a full run towards the ledge but dont hold all the way out, hold slightly in or slightly in and down/up, youll end up running continuously on the ledge and from there just hit cstick forward and youll get an fsmash right on the ledge, i do it with dsmash though


I'd like to present some philosiphocal questions about Sonic that can be answered in anyway, whether it be a combo, something about stage positioning, or even what your mindset is.

What are Sonic's "win conditions"?

Where are Sonic's different spacings at?

How would you describe Sonic's ground movement?

How would you describe Sonic's aerial movement?

Where do his ground and air game intercept? if at all

Ill give my replys to the questions later tonight
 

Kei_Takaro

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
1,007
Location
Underneath FD
Yeah, there are way better options for edgeguarding,
I'm thinking it could be used better pointed inwards towards the stage for tech chase shenanigans/ running behind mindgames (probably the only viable situations I can think of)
--
I'll give it a try
>What are Sonic's "win conditions"?
Gimps at mid-percents
>Where are Sonic's different spacings at?
Would vary according to opponent's multi-hit options/sex-kicks, but usually the distance along the tip hitbox of Fair
>How would you describe Sonic's ground movement?
Short Stages - more on wavelands
Long Stages - more on techchase, run punishing
>How would you describe Sonic's aerial movement?
Lots of options to mix and match, +1 option for walled stages
Aerial maneuvering = A/S-Tier imo
>Where do his ground and air game intercept? if at all
Not sure if I comprehended the question properly but:
Side-b'ing to change from neutral to edgeguard
Using the cancels on Spin Moves to quickly chase opponent wherever
 
Last edited:

DrugsM2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
81
I'll give it a try
>What are Sonic's "win conditions"?
Gimps at mid-percents
>Where are Sonic's different spacings at?
Would vary according to opponent's multi-hit options/sex-kicks, but usually the distance along the tip hitbox of Fair
>How would you describe Sonic's ground movement?
Short Stages - more on wavelands
Long Stages - more on techchase, run punishing
>How would you describe Sonic's aerial movement?
Lots of options to mix and match, +1 option for walled stages
Aerial maneuvering = A/S-Tier imo
>Where do his ground and air game intercept? if at all
Not sure if I comprehended the question properly but:
Side-b'ing to change from neutral to edgeguard
Using the cancels on Spin Moves to quickly chase opponent wherever
>What are Sonic's "win conditions"?

I would personally say you have to have 2 things to call something a win condition:
1. The action that actually takes the stock, so lets say dair spike, there in hitstun and moving downward long enough that they cannot recover, it has covered every option of survival. If you have to grab ledge after the spike then I would say the ledge grab is the action, and you may be asking then what the dair becomes, it becomes what you used to fulfill your second requirments.
2. You need the positioning for your action to take the stock, you can kill someone with an fsmash from center stage, but how viable is that really as a means of killing? So lets say for example you side-b a marth from center stage, you drag him to the ledge then JC grab out of side-b. At this point marth is at 50% and hes done for basically, youve succesfully met your win conditions because uthrow>dair is basically guaranteed at that percent and from that position.

Thats how i would define a win condition through technical terms as a sonic player. As a competitive individual a win condition on sonic means forging a path towards those final 2 requirments, you may have to build percent, you may have to get creative, but the ultimate goal is to secure the conditions in which you will win, and winning in smash literally ONLY means who takes the other guys 4 stocks first. So ultimately you just need to put them into a position where your hit is guaranteed to kill.



I'm gonna leave the other questions for replying to other peoples answers.

I like that you said his spacings would vary, it was the only answer you didnt just use HOW he would go about it, but also the reasoning behind it. Also A+ for adaption, im a fan of it lol
 

Solharath

[ZTD] CEO
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
1,603
Location
North Muskegon, Michigan
What are Sonic's "win conditions"?
Swag on 'em
Where are Sonic's different spacings at?
At Swag's length(his feet)
How would you describe Sonic's ground movement?
Swaggy
How would you describe Sonic's aerial movement?
Press B to swag
Where do his ground and air game intercept?
Uthrow>Dair>L-Cancel>Utilt>Uair> A or B
A(mid percent)> single jump Uair > DJ Nair > Swag
B(High percent)> Uair> UPB Nair/Uair > Swag

If you think I'm joking watch any footage of me with someone commentating.
 
Top Bottom