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Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

What is Sonic's worst match up?


  • Total voters
    52
  • Poll closed .

Tenki

Smash Hero
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Good Yoshi is hard :/

also, I've been eating Chicken Bacon Ranch for the past few nights.

Yoshi's grab release chaingrab is legit. If you're unlucky, you can start your upB while trying to buffer-spring out and he'll grab you before you can do it, and he can no-pummel grab release you to the edge and get a free kill. It's not very practical, but just saying - you don't want to be panic-springing here.

He also has pretty lagless aerials for the most part.

Yoshi's aerial mobility is really nice, and I personally suck against people who are good at controlling the air, so I can't help out too much here.

and his Dash attack and U-smash piss me off :[
 

Kinzer

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It's okay Shiri.

I'm just posting mah opinion, I didn't expect anybody to take it for granted.

Can you at least keep reading and correct me where I am wrong please?
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
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I don't think so-

None of the Yoshi who could GR CG me have ever attempted anything out of it other than a dodge followup or a regrab.

cause like, to CG Sonic, the timing is really tight, so I don't believe they get the same kind of time opening like they would for other characters.
 

ShadowLink84

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I do not think he can. I've only gotten chainggrabbed and im sure a fair spike wont kill Sonic.

Mind you Yoshi ONLY air releases so if you want to avoid the CG, you must go to a stage with platforms.

Eggrolling for yoshi is bad. Why?
*eggrolls hits shield*
*chases egg down and grabs*
hur hur
In general though I would say even primarily because Sonic screws with spacing so much and makes using eggs extremely unsafe to use.
however, yoshi has a better aerial game and that CG is a good way to rack up damage and force Sonic to play more carefully.''

Edit:LOL COLORS
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
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Messages
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:yoshi: Sure, I'll try my best.

Yoshi's Nair acts like a C-C-C-Combo breaker, but I suppose you need not to worry about it if you space your aerials right... probably easier said than done, remember Yoshi is quite the aerobic creature.

Bair is quite disjointed and lasts for a while... can be ACed IIRC.

Then we have Uair... it kills...
Mostly on the money. About the neutral air, though, you are indeed right that it can be outspaced, but you want to be careful about the startup because the hitbox explodes during the first few active frames of the move before it shrinks to what the human eye can see normally.

Okay, specials!

Egg Toss... it will probably force you to approach Yoshi, but it's not so bad since Sonic can just put up his shield from running... in fact you're so fast you shouldn't really have to worry about this too much, just know that Yoshi can throw his Eggs wherever he feels like, so don't end up running right into them whe you tried to avoid them... -_-

How often would you get caught in Yoshi's Neutral-B and transformed into an egg... really...? All I know is that if Yoshi can read you out of breaking out of the shell, you can die... or you can get damage racked up on you depending on how long you are encased in the egg.

Yoshi Bomb is defenitely something to look out for... it works like the Bowser bomb that if done from the ground you will be put right into the path of the next part which is considerably strong. It has some after lag, but usually his sides will be defended, so you will have to punish him from the air. Don't get predictable in your approaches.

Egg roll... hrm... it's lulzy, but I think it works like Sonic's SDR where it will either get beat out with enough priority, or it will knock you out of some stuff, or clank. If you try to beat it with SDR, the result is luckily you will get hit out of it since he will have his fresh (if he even bothers to use it).
Egg Toss most definitely makes Sonic approach as the move can cover up to 85% of Final Destination's ground space and short hop space from any one corner. I don't recommend the run-up-and-shield solution to eggs, since it puts Sonic in a bad position. Out of his shield at the spacing I'm considering (maybe...a little farther than forward tilt range--any closer to that and Yoshi should get punished for letting you so close), Sonic has very few options that can't be outguessed, so I would recommend short hop airdodges and just trying to weave your way through them in general. Running up and shielding is not good for him here.

Don't worry about getting hit while you're encased in the neutral B egg. Just try not to be predictable about when you break free and how you break free.

And don't try to beat Egg Roll. The only moves I've seen Sonic do that beat it are down air and back air. If you do try to beat this move aerially, which is an okay option, I suppose, make sure you pre-emptively space yourself because the move does accelerate itself.

Then we have standard attacks.

His UTilt works like Sonic's... I think... just how vertically disjointed is it?

FTilt can go a little ways, it'll probably push you away if he times it right, or clanks if you were SDRing at him... Not too much window of opportunity for him to mistime it and suffer dead-frames AFAIK. Jab does the same thing as his FTilt, but it being so fast it will clank and then just hit you out.

Fighting Yoshi is like fighting R.O.B., just get close enough where you can't be punished, but if he does anything you will have enough time to punish if you're on your toes. Yoshi's shield is not exactly the best, sure you can't shieldpoke it, but IIRC he cannot react OoS like say Marth can or something. I wonder if he has a different timing for PSing too, if they want to be that crucial in shaving off shield lag...

You won't be gimping Yoshi BTW, he can just airdodge through most if not all of his 2nd jump, so just read his recovery path and wait for him to punish there.

Go for "flat" stages, so that you can find ways around Yoshi and attack.

That's all I can come up with... for now.
Yoshi's up tilt is more vertically disjoint than Sonic's, but it doesn't have the luxury of the very wide horizontally disjoint boxes.

Forward tilt is Yoshi's number 2 ground punisher on Sonic because of it's ridiculous range and speed. It beats or ties with everything short of Sonic's forward smash, which seems to be his only reliable priority hog on the ground (at least when I play him). Even so, I suppose it "technically" beats forward smash on the premise that it's almost twice as fast, so if they are input at the same time, then the tilt would win. Yoshi's number on punisher on the ground is jab and the move is unbelievably amazing.

I have to disagree about comparing Yoshi to R.O.B. Against R.O.B. you can force him into really bad situations by taking advantage of the fact that no matter his playstyle, when you're in R.O.B.'s face up close and harassing him, there is very little he can do that's not ridiculously punishable or predictable. Fighting Yoshi requires a much gayer playstyle, more hit-and-run, lots of low-risk, low-reward gay. Your goal is generally to be as annoying as possible while putting yourself at the least amount of risk. You cannot go in with the mindset of trading hits because it just won't work and in-your-face harassment will be retaliated with Yoshi's intelligent short hop and ground-based punishers.

The one thing I absolutely agree with you on is enlighting your fellow mains that, no, you cannot gimp Yoshi. LOL! You get +10 just for that, sir.
 

ShadowLink84

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Mostly on the money. About the neutral air, though, you are indeed right that it can be outspaced, but you want to be careful about the startup because the hitbox explodes during the first few active frames of the move before it shrinks to what the human eye can see normally.
Three frames. THREE FRIGGIN FRAMES.
**** thign is annoying!


Egg Toss most definitely makes Sonic approach as the move can cover up to 85% of Final Destination's ground space and short hop space from any one corner. I don't recommend the run-up-and-shield solution to eggs, since it puts Sonic in a bad position. Out of his shield at the spacing I'm considering (maybe...a little farther than forward tilt range--any closer to that and Yoshi should get punished for letting you so close), Sonic has very few options that can't be outguessed, so I would recommend short hop airdodges and just trying to weave your way through them in general. Running up and shielding is not good for him here.
Agreed, I am not too sure on how far Sonic can be in order to punish the egg throw. I mean let us say yoshi hurls it at his current position rather than towards himself (lol mindgames), how far can Sonic be that would allow him to go in and punish?

Don't worry about getting hit while you're encased in the neutral B egg. Just try not to be predictable about when you break free and how you break free.
I am worried about the pivot grabs though, mainly since it does so much more damage and helps yoshi in spacing.
And don't try to beat Egg Roll. The only moves I've seen Sonic do that beat it are down air and back air. If you do try to beat this move aerially, which is an okay option, I suppose, make sure you pre-emptively space yourself because the move does accelerate itself.
Moves that beat egg roll.
Grab
Bair
Dair
Uair
Fair (deending how it is spaced)
Down B (during the first few frames of eggroll where its moving a bit slowly)

It is better not t try and break the eggroll because it is so unsafe against Sonic.
If yoshi eggrolls, he is committed to it and if he hits your shield, Sonic can easily turn around and dash grab you out of the move, or puish you as soon as you try to come to a stop.

I find that Yoshi's eggroll really isnt that intimidating mainly because its so much slower to get moving and is less safe.

Yoshi's up tilt is more vertically disjoint than Sonic's, but it doesn't have the luxury of the very wide horizontally disjoint boxes.
??
Sonic's Utilt isn't widely horizontal. That is his Uair.
Forward tilt is Yoshi's number 2 ground punisher on Sonic because of it's ridiculous range and speed. It beats or ties with everything short of Sonic's forward smash, which seems to be his only reliable priority hog on the ground (at least when I play him). Even so, I suppose it "technically" beats forward smash on the premise that it's almost twice as fast, so if they are input at the same time, then the tilt would win. Yoshi's number on punisher on the ground is jab and the move is unbelievably amazing.[/uote]
Well the Fsmash doesnt really come out unless it is to kill and space.
iirc both their Ftilts have the same speed. I am unsure who has better rnge though,.
The one thing I absolutely agree with you on is enlighting your fellow mains that, no, you cannot gimp Yoshi. LOL! You get +10 just for that, sir.
Oh man , why did you have to enlighten the sonic mains?
Pfft
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
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:yoshi: So I was playing some Sonic last night and I figured I'd spend the set throwing out moves to test stuff.

It's surprising to see what forward smash and back air (both of us, LOL!) go through. I have +109434 respect for Sonic's up air after last night; I knew it was good, but the stuff it was beating from those crazy angles is ridix. Also, Yoshi retreating back air is the closest thing to broken I can imagine. Eff pivot grabbing, LOL. Retreating back air *****.
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
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:yoshi: I know, but I've never used it while running away before. I always use it in place or to approach with.

Such a good move, wow.
 

Tenki

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How's Yoshi retreating B-air vs Sonic U-smash (hyphen/DAC - non invincible part) like?

and also Yoshi retreating B-air vs Sonic B-air (approaching, ofc)
 

ShadowLink84

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Yoshi's Bair gives way to sonic's usmash depending on the angle. Either way the bair will always either give in to the Usmash (mostlikely) or will exchange hits.

you are actually ebtter off trading hits using a Bair.
mainly since they will exchange hits and Yoshi would definitely not benefit.
 

Camalange

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Oh yeah, I forgot.

...

k

:093:
 

JayBee

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the main things i look for (outside of getting grabbed of course) is the bair, and his eggs. honestly, the way the eggs move, if you really wanted to, you can run and shield till about mid range, because then the yoshi if he's smart will have stopped and try to poke at you with something else like bair, or attempt a grab. Some times, i dont realize that sonic is very good at dodging most projectile of this nature, (slow moving wierd path specials) and i can block, and side step well enough. a I think im in the air alot against yoshi, but anticipating bair is easy because they will do it, and usually follow it up with jabs or a tilt right after. his smashes, unless he mindgames it, or you fall stupidly, should not hit too often, and even if you get grab released to the edge, he can't finish you off easily at all. uair beats his dair when done right, and a lot of his ground moves are punishable by sonic well enough that sonic can be happy with getting most of his damage off followups that may have occured from one mistake. IMO. to land kill moves on yoshi though can be difficult because should you miss... grab...


most of my kills on yoshis have been mindgamed. his recovery can be annoying with egg toss as a deterant to most gimp attempts, which is why i spam spring from time to time to make them react to that first rather than me.

can anyone tell me if sonic's ftilt can beat yoshis d tilt?
 

Chis

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Alright, new aim. Let's complete all the characters guides. I'll 'try' and do my ones, added Cammy's and Guus' guides too :x

I'll edit this the characters left to do. And I'll update the charter in the OP tomorrow. Let's hold off the radissons until we finish the write ups please.
 

Kinzer

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I know I have some left unfinished, I'll see which ones those are.

We could also update the ones that are... lol out-of-date, or no longer valid (or never were to begin with...).
 

Umby

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Too lazy to see what we are currently talking about, so I'll apologize in advance for being selfish with this post.

I want opinions on the Marth matchup. I've played a number of MKs and Marths, more decent MKs than good, but the Marths I've played have usually been exceptional. But even versus just the good Marths, I find the matchup more aggravating than Sonic vs MKs. Is it simply that I'm lacking too much knowledge in the matchup, is my aggressive/mindgamey playing style not suited for playing Marth, or is Sonic vs Marth actually slightly worse than Sonic vs MK?
 

infomon

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I used to think marth was like sonic's worst match up and I hated it so much and arrrrrgh

now I like playing marths :) it took a heckuva lot of practice tho

Here's malcolmm's advice from ages ago (I don't have a real quote link cuz I saved this to a text file and read it over and over lollllll):

MalcolmM said:
yeah man i got alot better against marth after fighting dan for so long.
another thing u wanna do is outlive marth....and bait alot of f-smashes. the
move is highly punishable. up tilt is his safest kill move and u can survive
that until about 150 or so. dan/any marth i play always tells me that i dont
die. its because his kill options really revolve around u either messing up ur
spacing....attacking his shield blindly or well timed f-smashes. and this may
sound...super....super....super weird cause every marth will telll u that BF
is their best neutral but take them ALL to battlefield. its his best neutral
if he can control the bottom platform....but with the up throw u can put him
on the platforms ALOT and put him at his weakest point (below him) alot more
frequently. also....dancing blade 101...if he goes for the last hit with 10000
little pokes SDI into him as hard as you can. you will end up behind him b4
the move finishes....thus ensuring the f-smash since the move takes 4ever.
also do not roll behind dancing blade. u will take an up-b. also if u r
shielding dancing blade and u SUSPECT the downwards one is coming....grab. the
downwards dancing blade is able to be grabbed inbetween the 3rd and 4th hit.
the upward one as well...the regular one is not. other sonic players will tell
u its all about tilts and w/e....but marth is a characters BASED ON SPACING
and TRAPS....sonic really loves to **** ppls spacing and up-p out of dtilt
traps or walls that he cant find a sensible way around. so really running is
the best offense.
HTH but it prolly won't lol :)
 

~TBS~

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oh yeah Infzy. that was me he was talking to.
Umby brings up a good point, though. I understand the whole spacing thing with Marth, but if you space, wont you be playing right into his hands? I get mixed responses with Sonic vs Marth. Some say use tilts to apply pressure and grab. I also get go under Marth and hit him hard with uairs on BF, and i get space like a madman. So, which is it?
 

infomon

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"space" means "space properly". vs many opponents this means using long-ranging moves from their tipper range so that you're out of range from their counterattacks. This isn't the case with Sonic vs. Marth. To "space" against a Marth, for us means to stay OUTSIDE of his range, hoping he'll make a mistake (by using any of his attacks), which we then punish. Alternatively, when you get close, stay very close so that you can't get hit by tippers.

Ftilt isn't particularly useful against Marth because if you miss (dodge or shielded) you get tippered easy. It's fine if you're close though, of course. Dash-attacks are great against Marth; just know when not to use them. Shieldgrab, dash > rising Fair, do NOT approach with spindash (though ASC can punish some serious Marth mistakes, it's rare). Zoning with Spring is funtimes :)
 

Camalange

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Unless I'm doin' it wrong here, or it doesn't look like my post was added to the OP.

?_?

:093:
 

da K.I.D.

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marths side b has falco laser priority dont spindash into it

if you shield a fair, you can fair out of shield before the second fair comes out
 

ROOOOY!

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disadvantage in Yoshi?
Yoshi in even.
Very true.

Can we sort out this discrepency now?
Someone let Yoshi's know by whacking a post in their match-up discussion.

This isn't right. It's like saying Sonic v Sheik is disadvantage.
*Looks at chart and cries*
 

Chis

Finally a legend
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Well, I guess no one cares :/

Oh, and Cam, Greenstreet owns the post for the ROB is discussion, so I can't do anything really.

Re discuss Yoshi then.
 
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I have been finemy friend, I have just been playing SF4. And thank you Jay B, I love miku too. she is jsut to ****ing sexy. And that vocie is just beauitful:).
 
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