Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[Jim Morrison]

Sonic only can kill Pikmin if they are on him. If they are off him, he's terrible at killing them. Shaking them off is what he does. Also, U-air should not be used sparingly on Sonic. U-air outprioritizes anything below him. Just make sure to start it when he comes near you, as Sonic could use the stall from D-air to not get hit if you start too early.
Get out with the 'I can do X against Spindash ^_^!!1'
Spindash is a punisher that is not used as a direct approach, just maybe to see how the opponent fares against it.

Olimar's advantage, 65:35 or 60:40. Sadly, it's not like we get much of a 'mindgame boost' we do in other matchups (the thing that makes matchups like 5-10 points easier for Sonics) because Olimar simply outspaces it, where your mindgames have no effect. You SDSC all you want against F-smashing Olimar, but you gained nothing as he can keep it going.

 

[Chis]

I say it's 55:45 at worst. I don't see what makes it worse.

 

[Umby]

I say it's 55:45 at worst. I don't see what makes it worse.

Until you do see what does, it's probably better not to give out an opinion on a ratio for this matchup. 60:40 on paper, 65:35 when playing.

 

[Browny]

reality makes it worse

 

[Chis]

Umby, I've seen what he does. Assuptions = bad.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Olimar outspaces you, both aerially and on the ground (exception is B-air and U-air). His Pikmin have bad priority, but when they clank, Olimar does not have lag, his Pikmin do (on aerials he does have lag), his grab game is sadly superior to ours. Don't give me the 'Sonic won't get grabbed bull', because we know we will get grabbed at least twice a stock when we get camped. His F-air is awesome, has some really annoying moves and AT's.

Your best bet against Olimar is juggling him. This is where Sonic stands out though, which his awesome U-air which ***** airdodges. Try to grab him and U-throw and FFS KEEP HIM ABOVE YOU THATS YOUR BEST SHOT. Olimar is light and dies faster.

I call Sonics worst matchup on this. 65:35.

 

[~TBS~]

*Slaps SM5*

*blocks at Sonic speed*
I have gimped this guy, several times. bair walls, stage spikes, dairs, you name it.


Its really 65:35 IMO. its just so annoying as how he can just really stop you from being able to hit him.

@Gf2tw
whistle armor stops that uair stuff, completely.

@Chis
AFAIK, only fair and bair can stop the utilt and nair, but only if you space it right.

stop using me as an example <_<

 

[¤Vivi Orunitia¤]

*blocks at Sonic speed*
I have gimped this guy, several times. bair walls, stage spikes, dairs, you name it.

stop using me as an example <_<

I haven't been gimped by Sonic, btw I've never been stage spiked as Olimar but as G&W >_> Dairs?! Please, you've never did that to me! Get your facts straight! >_>

Unless I fight more Sonics, you will continue to be an example

 

[~TBS~]

well, to stop any nonsense to getting into this thread,we say that the match-up is 65:35, right? majority rules, and its just way too hard to get this guy in a bind without getting camped or grabbed.

 

[Jim Morrison]

[/FONT][/COLOR]


@Gf2tw
whistle armor stops that uair stuff, completely.

I don't know how long Whistle Armor works, but these are 2 hits with like 12 frames between them, + Sonic being in the hitlag.

 

[¤Vivi Orunitia¤]

well, to stop any nonsense to getting into this thread,we say that the match-up is 65:35, right? majority rules, and its just way too hard to get this guy in a bind without getting camped or grabbed.

I say that it should be 40:60 Olimar because Sonic isn't that helpless versus Olimar, with moves like bair/fair/ASC and all.

 

[Chis]

I say 40:60 Olimar, tallying up ratios.

 

[¤Vivi Orunitia¤]

I say 40:60 Olimar, tallying up ratios.

I find it kinda funny how other boards put Sonic up and the sonic mains put him down, Oli community says 40:60 us and Sonic community says 35:65 >_>

 

[RenegadeRaven]

Seriously, you might be one of the few boards that actually does that. >_>

 

[Jim Morrison]

Me + Umby + SM5 do not equal the community. The number is scattered around 60:40, 65:35. This is mainly cause we know that Olimar shuts Sonic down with about every attempt to approach.

 

[Kinzer]

What do you mean Sonic commu-

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!

Sheesh, people are still calling it 65/35 and now we're forced to bring him up to 6/4? Either Olimar is getting better or the Sonic players are getting worse at this MU, and since nobody really learns Olimar to his fullest (LOL pivot grab = win mindset), I'm going with the ladder.

Granted it's one of the more annoying fights that would give off the illusion that it's hard, it's actually doable if you just do everything right yourself. However I must be crazy since I know I'm the better player in this MU and it's really easy to win once you get player habits down, plus I enjoy it in that case.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Actually, I have little knowledge about the actual matchup, and just a bit of knowledge about both characters. I'm just frightening people. I'd go for 60:40, cause I said so.

 

[¤Vivi Orunitia¤]

Seriously, you might be one of the few boards that actually does that. >_>

I highly doubt that, I've seen many boards match up ratios and most of them say that sonic is better than some of you guys say he is

Me + Umby + SM5 do not equal the community. The number is scattered around 60:40, 65:35. This is mainly cause we know that Olimar shuts Sonic down with about every attempt to approach.

It wasn't just you three that said this though >_>

Actually, I have little knowledge about the actual matchup, and just a bit of knowledge about both characters. I'm just frightening people. I'd go for 60:40, cause I said so.

Thank you so much, geniuses think alike it seems

 

[Chis]

Okay, I'm putting down 40:60.

By the way, there are guides that need to be done as we can't do re discussions forever. :/
If you have any queries about a match up or need help, this is the thread. But now, we need to complete this thread. So, the check list is in the 2nd post.

And I will edit the colour scheme soon.

 

[Kinzer]

Most other MU threads also serve as a "help me with X character pl0x, I'm having trouble with them!" kinda thread, so I was hoping once we got the main thing done we could make it out into that, if it wasn't already.

Also Forget other boards, I highly doubt anybody really knows Sonic.

 

[Chis]

Meh, I might do Snake. Which ones do you have again Kinzer?

 

[Kinzer]

Just PT, T.Link, and Wolf, although I would think I could do a write-up for Wolf since he's not one of the more complex characters (but he isn't really easy if you don't know what you're doing from Sonic's perspective, so it probably is important that I get one write-up done).

For Olimar, I'm not sure if you want me to revise anything, but IMHO I don't think I have to change a thing, but you can be the judge of that.

 

[Xyro77]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222783

Samus boards are talkin about sonic this month. Wanna throw your 2 cents in? Please do!

 

[Browny]

lmao coz chis is the OP, he decides what matchup ratios stick

sorry to do this, but what tourney experience do you have vs good olimar mains? your arguments for why this is only slightly in sonics disadvantage have been completely non existant.

I say 40:60 Olimar, tallying up ratios

I say it's 55:45 at worst. I don't see what makes it worse.

Pikmin throw shouldn't really be that much of a problem for Sonic. And please explain how utilt and Nair shut Sonic down.

I remember Tenki saying something about Sonic being able to grab Olimar in-between grabs if spaced properly.

So what are you basing your opinion off?

things that SHOULDNT be problems? things that CAN happen?

How about accepting the opinions from people who play against olimar and observe things that DO happen. As a mediator of sorts for this thread you've done a poor job on this one. If you dont have legit experience vs good oli players, just sit back and leave your theorycrafting opinions out of the final matchup ratio. Having your opinion carry a lot of weight on the overall consensus forces me to ask these questions

 

[Kinzer]

I theorycraft all the time and usually (if ever) I don't get bawwed at.

Sure he's free to post his opinion, but then I agree with you that seeing as this is a community MU thread, all perspectives should be considered.

 

[Chis]

lmao coz chis is the OP, he decides what matchup ratios stick

I'm pretty sad you went as low as to accuses of something I clearly do not do. Basical lying.

I don't really care about the rest of your opinion because you clearly don't equal the community. How many times do you see Espy, Malcolm, X or the other contribute to the match up chart?

 

[Kinzer]

Not often because they have better things to do than help random people on the forum learn MUs (although I'm not saying they won't help if they're asked to give advice over something like AIM or Xat), and that would be owning with the character they know so well and representing Sonic in a different way compared to the likes of me. I'm like/just a hybrid/middleman which is awesome.

Also he may not equal the community, be he is A PART of it, and whether you like or not as an arbitrary party you have to be as subjective as humanly possible and take every single fine detail into consideration. There's a reason things like communist governments are nice in theory but they never succeed, and even though we aren't a government, it's pretty much the same as a group of people in which a system where Democracy is used will probably the most successful.

To put it in another way, if you end up doing everything yourself Chis there's not going to be any point for anybody else to come in here. At least think about what other people have to say if you weren't already.

 

[Chis]

Not often because they have better things to do than help random people on the forum learn MUs (although I'm not saying they won't help if they're asked to give advice over something like AIM or Xat), and that would be owning with the character they know so well and representing Sonic in a different way compared to the likes of me. I'm like/just a hybrid/middleman which is awesome.

Yep.

Also he may not equal the community, be he is A PART of it,

He's suggesting he's a more important part of it and we should disregard and discredit peoples opinions in favour of him own. That's not happening. And now he's going down the route of making stuff up, smh.

To put it in another way, if you end up doing everything yourself Chis there's not going to be any point for anybody else to come in here. At least think about what other people have to say if you weren't already.

Do tell me how I done 'everything' myself? You are wrong Kinzer. This is a community thread, I put in my two cent, and so did everyone else. I asked everyone for their opinions on the ratio then I put it down.

 

[MrEh]

lol drama

Spoiler

obvious troll

 

[Kinzer]

Oh pardon me, I thought DJ was coming off in a different way, please disregard that part then.

I also said "end up", I didn't accuse you of being some sort of tyrant and again I beg your forgiveness if I gave off the wrong impression.

Also yes, the internet is serious business.

 

[Chis]

Anyways, expect the write up in a few days.

lol drama

This man is correct.

Also yes, the internet is serious business.

This man stole my line.

 

[Umby]

Give me a character and I'll take a shot at a MU guide. I need to work on on my write-up skills anyway.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I'd be happy to give you some stuff on the Peach MU if you guys think it'd be helpful. This match up annoys me though, I can never make my mind up about what the ratio is Q_Q

(Most of it will probably consist of 'Bair moar' and 'Jump higher')

Also, Greenstreet still has the pages to all the parts where the summarys are supposed to be written D:

 

[RenegadeRaven]

^^ Ftilt. Don't be aggressive against that *****. Turnips are a joke. See one flying at you? Roll away, cause she gets a free grab. CP Jungle Japes probably Luigi's Mansion?

T_T I hate Peach.

 

[Umby]

I've always said to hit her mid jump, because it usually works. If she's started her float, back away.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Her sideb ***** spins. Like if he's in SDR animation you could probably just SideB and catch him. Even before he jumps.

 

[Browny]

He's suggesting he's a more important part of it and we should disregard and discredit peoples opinions in favour of him own. That's not happening. And now he's going down the route of making stuff up, smh.

lol

did you see me post anything here about my opinion? no, because i dont have experience vs a tourney olimar. Ive played against olimars with sonic before, and even a few in tournaments when i went mk/snake however never once has it been a case where money is on the line in a sonic v olimar match. In effect, my experiences are worth nothing.

you on the other hand, simply post a ratio like 55:45 with no reasoning whatsoever and seem to completely ignore what the others who have actually fought (and lost) against tournament olimars say in favour of... nothing. This matchup discussion looks to me like a case of 'I declare it 55:45, its up to all other sonic mains to prove this is worse', at which you simply discount arguments with reasonings like 'they shouldnt be a problem'. We shouldnt have to prove our case to you to vote on the matchup, you have to consider everything people say as the truth, since its entirely possible they have more experience than you vs olimar

 

[RenegadeRaven]

Edge hogging her is annoying too. I Insta-edgehogged her UpB and all she did was hover there, because her UpB had a lasting hit box... then I eventually got knocked off before she was too low. =(

 

[ithrowthings]

lol

did you see me post anything here about my opinion? no, because i dont have experience vs a tourney olimar. Ive played against olimars with sonic before, and even a few in tournaments when i went mk/snake however never once has it been a case where money is on the line in a sonic v olimar match. In effect, my experiences are worth nothing.

you on the other hand, simply post a ratio like 55:45 with no reasoning whatsoever and seem to completely ignore what the others who have actually fought (and lost) against tournament olimars say in favour of... nothing. This matchup discussion looks to me like a case of 'I declare it 55:45, its up to all other sonic mains to prove this is worse', at which you simply discount arguments with reasonings like 'they shouldnt be a problem'. We shouldnt have to prove our case to you to vote on the matchup, you have to consider everything people say as the truth, since its entirely possible they have more experience than you vs olimar

Thank you.

I usually just lurk but this just had to be said. Same with ICs and Yoshi. I have a CRAPTON of ICs experience. I've fought Lain several times now and usually take him to last stock and even beat him sometimes. I also fight omniswell and chewwy all the time. At APEX I fought MEEP and started the match out strong I still had 3 stocks he was at 2 stocks 90%. I made 2 mistakes and he won the match. If you call that 55:45 that's borderline ********. I played an otherwise perfect game except for 2 mistakes and I lost. Also, try fighting pride sometime. He'll show you why Yoshi isn't 55:45, I think kid can vouch for that now as well.

 

[Chis]

lol

did you see me post anything here about my opinion? no, because i dont have experience vs a tourney olimar. Ive played against olimars with sonic before, and even a few in tournaments when i went mk/snake however never once has it been a case where money is on the line in a sonic v olimar match. In effect, my experiences are worth nothing.

you on the other hand, simply post a ratio like 55:45 with no reasoning whatsoever and seem to completely ignore what the others who have actually fought (and lost) against tournament olimars say in favour of... nothing. This matchup discussion looks to me like a case of 'I declare it 55:45, its up to all other sonic mains to prove this is worse', at which you simply discount arguments with reasonings like 'they shouldnt be a problem'. We shouldnt have to prove our case to you to vote on the matchup, you have to consider everything people say as the truth, since its entirely possible they have more experience than you vs olimar

lololol

There's lots of things I would love to address in that quote, however I'll reframe and just say this.

What, such as Sonics’ Fair, Uair and Nair coming out in 5 frames where as Olimar’s Nair comes out in 7 without any noticeable disjoint hence why is it was a problem? Why didn’t I say that, maybe it’s because I have things to do outside smashboards? SORRY DJBROWNY cause I didn’t write PARAGRAPHS of reasoning, but yeah. I don’t feel like replying to your post after this. Not cause I’m ‘ignoring you’ but because replying to it would achieve nothing.